* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. [00:00:01] YEAH. NO, THEY DO IT IN PLANNING BOARD. I, THAT'S WHY I'M ASKING. I I'VE BEEN THERE, WHAT, EIGHT, NINE YEARS. SO WE'RE ONLY GOING EXECUTIVE SESSION FOR, FOR A COUPLE REASONS. THAT'S THE LITIGATION, NOT POTENTIAL LITIGATION. RIGHT. LITIGATION. RIGHT, RIGHT. OR PERSONNEL BACK. OKAY, BECAUSE I TOOK THAT, I TOOK THAT COURSE. THE GUY WAS SAYING THAT SOME OF THE PLANNING BOARDS DO IT. I SAID, I'M NOT SURE IF OURS EVER DID. I TALKED TO. RIGHT. WE DON'T. WE'RE VERY GOOD ABOUT IT. AND HONESTLY, WE NEVER HAD SUBCOMMITTEES. I'M STILL NOT, I'M STILL NOT CONVINCED THAT'S LEGAL. WELL, AS LONG AS IT'S NOT A HORRIBLE PEOPLE. NO, THAT'S NOT YOU. I NEED A LAWYER FOR THAT. ONE. THAT'S DREW ONE, THAT ONE THAT BELIEVES WHAT I [00:10:11] [00:10:11] AUDIO. OKAY, GREAT. HEY, BILL, BEFORE WE GET STARTED, I KNOW THAT YOU WERE GONNA GO LOOK AT THE SPACE AT THE SENIOR CENTER WITH THE SMART ROOM. UM, DO YOU HAVE ANY UPDATE ON THAT? I HAVE NOT GOTTEN TO IT YET, NO. UM, I THINK THE LAST TIME I CHECKED THEIR OFFICE HOURS WERE THE SAME AS MY DAY JOB, SO I HAVEN'T GOTTEN THERE WHEN THE OFFICE IS OPEN. UH, BUT NOW CONTACT IS, IS THAT SOMETHING YOU WOULD LIKE TO DELEGATE? IF YOU WANT, I MEAN, I WANTED TO LOOK AT IT TO SEE IT FOR MYSELF, BUT IF SOMEBODY ELSE WANTS TO LOOK, THAT'S FINE. UM, AND I MEAN, I WOULDN'T MIND GOING WITH, IT'LL, IT'LL PROBABLY BE QUICKER TO GET ME TO DO IT IF SOMEBODY ELSE GOES WITH ME AND WE MAKE AN APPOINTMENT. SO THEN ANOTHER STUFF DOESN'T REALLY GET IN THE WAY. SO IF YOU WANNA GO LOOK AT IT, WE CAN GO LOOK AT IT TOGETHER SOMETIME. THAT WOULD WORK. OR IF YOU COULD TELL ME WHO THE CONTACT IS, I WILL BE HAPPY TO SET SOMETHING UP. BUT I, I APOLOGIZE, BUT I DON'T KNOW WHO THAT CONTACT IS. I, I DON'T KNOW EITHER. I JUST KNEW WHO THE OFFICE HOURS WERE FROM NINE TO 1230 AND MONDAY THROUGH FRIDAY. SO MY PLAN WAS TO WALK INTO THE OFFICE SOMETIME, BUT WE CAN FIND, WE CAN FIND OUT CONTACT THERE. SO WE, SORRY, THE, SO THE OFFICE HOURS AT SENIOR CENTER ARE WHAT? RIGHT NOW? THE OFFICE HOURS, OR LAST TIME I CHECKED WERE NINE TO 1230 MONDAY THROUGH FRIDAY. SO, SO THAT DOESN'T QUITE WORK, UM, FOR JUST POPPING IN SO WE CAN FIGURE OUT WHO A CONTACT IS AND, AND FIND A TIME WHEN THEY'LL, THEY CAN SHOW IT TO US A DIFFERENT OUTSIDE OF THOSE HOURS. OR IF SOMEBODY, I MEAN, I GUESS IF YOU WANT TO GO DURING THOSE HOURS AND I CAN SET UP A TIME TO GO DURING THOSE HOURS. I DON'T KNOW IF, UM, PERHAPS ONE OF OUR RETIRED, UH, PARTNERS MIGHT BE INTERESTED IN JOINING ME ON THE VISIT. YEAH. I JUST, BUT I CAN FLEX MY SCHEDULE IN ORDER TO ACCOMMODATE THAT ONE DAY IF THERE'S SOMEONE ELSE'S AVAILABLE. YEAH. I I, I CAN'T, I DON'T HAVE THAT OPTION, SO, SO DENNIS, YOU'LL GO WITH ME. OKAY. SO IF YOU'RE OKAY WITH THAT BILL, DENNIS AND I CAN GO DO A RECON AND THEN, AND WRAP BACK UP WITH YOU. YES. I MEAN, AND YOU KNOW, SO, SO THE GOAL IS IF THEY'VE GOT A SETUP WHERE WE CAN BROADCAST OUR MEETINGS ONTO FACEBOOK WITHOUT NEEDING AN IT PERSON THERE, THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR. BILL? YES. I, I'M SORRY I DIDN'T CATCH UP. ARE YOU REFERRING TO A PARTICULAR MEETING OR NO, JUST IN GENERAL. OKAY. BECAUSE APPARENTLY THE SENIOR CENTER HAS A SMART ROOM MM-HMM . THAT WOULD MAKE IT EASIER TO DO SOME OF THESE THINGS. SO THEN WE WOULDN'T HAVE TO HAVE PEOPLE, EXTRA PEOPLE STAYING UNTIL 10 O'CLOCK AT NIGHT. SO I ALSO THINK IT WOULD BE HELPFUL FOR OUR APPLICANTS AND FOR EVERYONE IF WE HAD THE ABILITY, IF WE'RE TO PARTNER WITH A SCREEN TO PULL UP SOME OF THE YEAH. EITHER THE AERIAL MAPPING OR FOR THEM TO PROVIDE PDF AND SITE PLANS THAT WE CAN ZOOM IN AND OUT ON, SO, RIGHT. SOME, SOME OF THE STUFF WE WERE SUPPOSED TO DO WITH THIS SCREEN THAT WE HAVE HERE, THAT IT DOESN'T ALWAYS WORK. YEAH. YEAH. SO I THINK THAT THAT WOULD BE A, I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF VALUE ACROSS A NUMBER OF REASONS TO TAKE USING THAT RESOURCE IF THE TOWN HAS IT. RIGHT. AND THE, AND THE DRAWBACK WOULD BE LESS SPACE, SO, OKAY. WELL, IT'S, IT'S SO POPULAR, BILL. EVERYBODY DIDN'T WANNA COME AND WATCH ALL THE TIME AND BE GOOD TO GO, RIGHT? YEAH. MAYBE THAT'S THE, MAYBE THAT'S THE SOLUTION. THE BILL CLARK FAN CLUB WILL HAVE SIX DIFFERENT NIGHTS. YEAH, I MEAN, WE CAN, WE CAN EASILY MAKE OTHER ARRANGEMENTS. I'LL, I'LL HAVE THEM GET IN TOUCH WITH MY PUBLICIST. BIG WAIT FOR THE FOLKS TO COME OUT. ALRIGHT, SO WE'VE GOT A FEW ITEMS ON THE WORK SESSION. LET'S GET STARTED. IT IS 6 35. FIRST ITEM IS 5 2 7 2 SOUTH PARK AVENUE, LLC, REQUESTING SKETCH PLAN DIRECTION ON A PROPOSAL TO DEMOLISH, TO DEMOLISH THE EXISTING 117,000 SQUARE FOOT CONVENT LOCATED AT 5 2 7 2 SOUTH PARK AVENUE. THEY CONSTRUCT AN AGE RESTRICTED COMMUNITY FOR SENIORS AND 17 APARTMENT BUILDINGS. YES. GOOD EVENING. CHAIRMAN CLARK AND MEMBERS OF THE PLANNING BOARD, SEAN HOPKINS FROM THE LAW FIRM OF HOPKINS, GEORGIA MCCARTHY ON BEHALF [00:15:01] OF THE APPLICANT. ALSO WITH ME ON BEHALF OF THE APPLICANT ITSELF IS ROB SAVERINO. AND THEN THE PROJECT ENGINEER CHRIS WOOD FROM CARINO WOODMORE. SO AS SOME OF YOU RECALL, THIS IS INVOLVES PARTIALLY A SITE THAT WAS PREVIOUSLY APPROVED. WE ALS WE PREVIOUSLY HAD A MULTI-FAMILY COMPONENT APPROVED ALONG WITH THAT PORTION OF THE SITE. HOW LONG, HOW LONG SOLES ROAD. AS YOU ALSO RECALL, WE HAD SOME ORIGINAL DISCUSSIONS ABOUT OVERALL REDEVELOPMENT PLAN FOR THIS SITE. SO WHAT WE'VE DONE IS WE'VE TAKEN THE TIME TO GO BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD, EVALUATE THE ENTIRETY OF THE SITE, WHICH IS APPROXIMATELY 20 ACRES IN ZONED R THREE, AND COME UP WITH AN OVERALL CONCEPT PLAN. UH, ROB, YOU WANNA GET THE CONCEPT PLAN? SURE. I THINK EVERYONE KNOWS THAT. OBVIOUSLY PART OF THIS SITE IS THE OLD CONVENT AND THEN THERE'S THE ATTACHED MEDICAL BUILDING THAT'S LOCATED HERE. OF COURSE, WE WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT OUR NEXT DOOR NEIGHBORS ARE HILBERG COLLEGE. WE WANNA WORK WITH THEM AND COLLABORATE WITH RESPECT TO THIS PROJECT, WHICH OF COURSE IS JUST A FIRST PRESENTATION THIS EVENING. SO JUST CLARIFICATION, YOU ROB THE PROJECT WE APPROVED FOR? WE DID, YEAH. SO THAT ONE'S ON BY THE WAYSIDE. THIS IS NEW. EVERYTHING'S NEW. WE DID, WE'RE STILL SHOWING MULTIFAMILY FAMILY ON THAT PORTION OF CYCLE. BUT YES, THIS IS A NEW PROJECT IN ITS ENTIRETY. SO WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING IS ROB HAS SPENT A TON OF TIME TAKING A LOOK AT THE OLD CONVENT HERE. AND BASICALLY THE CONCLUSION IS AS A RESULT OF SEVERAL FACTORS. NUMBER ONE, THE LAYOUT IS BASICALLY PHYSICALLY OBSOLETE. NUMBER TWO. AND PERHAPS MOST IMPORTANTLY, THERE IS A TON OF ASBESTOS THERE. AND THEN NUMBER THREE, THE COST THAT WOULD BE INVOLVED. WE'RE BASICALLY GONNA DEMOLISH THAT BUILDING. WE ARE GONNA LEAVE THE NEWER ATTACHED BUILDING, WHICH IS HERE WITH A SOMEWHAT IRREGULAR SHAPE. AND THEN WHAT WE'RE GONNA PROPOSE ON THIS SITE IS FIRST AND FOREMOST A SENIOR HOUSING BUILDING OUT ALONG SOUTH PARK. UH, THAT WOULD BE 125 UNITS. IT WOULD BE AGE RESTRICTED 55 AND OVER. WE THINK THERE'S A DEMAND FOR THAT IN THIS NEIGHBORHOOD. SO WE THINK THAT'LL BE WELL RECEIVED. AND THEN SECONDLY, WHAT WE'RE SHOWING ALONG THE REMAINDER, INCLUDING ALONG SOLES ROAD FRONTAGE, AND THEN WHERE THERE WAS ALREADY PREVIOUSLY ALMOST THE SAME NUMBER OF UNITS PREVIOUSLY APPROVED WE'RE SHOWING 17 TWO STORY EIGHT UNIT BUILDINGS. UH, YOU CAN SEE WE'VE OBVIOUSLY TAKEN THE TIME TO DESIGN THE SITE AND RECOGNITION THE FACT WE NEED TO COMPLY WITH STORMWATER QUALITY AND QUANTITY STANDARDS. THE NEXT STEP WOULD BE THAT CHRIS WOOD WOULD DO THE FULLY ENGINEERED PLANS AND ALL THE RELATED TECHNICAL DOCUMENTATION THAT'S INVOLVED. SOME OF YOU MAY RECALL, AS PART OF THE ORIGINAL APPROVAL PROCESS, WE REALLY DID MAKE AN EFFORT TO REACH OUT NOT ONLY TO HILBERT COLLEGE, BUT ALSO THE OWNERS OF THE HOMES ON THE, THE OPPOSITE SIDE OF SOULS. THERE'S SOME SINGLE FAMILY, THERE'S SOME DUPLEXES, THERE'S SOME APARTMENTS. SO WE WILL DO THAT AGAIN. WE THOUGHT IT WAS MORE APPROPRIATE TO PRESENT THE PROJECT TO YOU FIRST, BUT AS PART OF THE REVIEW PROCESS, WE'LL DO THAT IN HERE. AGAIN, I ALSO WOULD NOTE THAT OBVIOUSLY, UH, RELATIVELY LARGE PROJECT, APPROXIMATELY 20 ACRES SITE. THIS OF COURSE, IS SUBJECT TO AN ENVIRONMENTAL REVIEW. PURSUANT TO THE STATE ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY REVIEW ACT, WE FULLY EXPECT THAT WILL INVOLVE A COORDINATED ENVIRONMENTAL REVIEW. SO ONCE WE'RE READY, WE WILL SUBMIT A SITE PLAN APPLICATION PART ONE OF THE FULL ENVIRONMENTAL ASSESSMENT FORM AND ALL THE RELATED TECHNICAL DOCUMENTATION. WE SIMPLY WANT TO COME THIS EVENING, GIVE YOU AN INITIAL PRESENTATION, WELCOME YOUR INPUT AND QUESTIONS, AND THEN WE'LL BE BACK ONCE WE'VE DONE THE ENGINEERED PLANS AND THE RELATED TECHNICAL DOCUMENTATION. ROBERT, CHRIS, I DUNNO IF YOU HAVE ANYTHING YOU WANT TO ADD, I CAN ADD A LITTLE BIT MORE DETAIL A LITTLE BIT, UH, ON THE, ON THE PHASING OF THE PROJECT. SO YOU SEE THIS, UH, UH, THE SENIOR HOUSING OR THE SENIOR APARTMENT PROJECT. IT'S A CENTRAL LOADED CORRIDOR BUILDING. IF WE'RE PROPOSING A THREE STORY BUILDING, KEEP IN MIND THAT THE BUILDING THAT SITS THERE NOW, THE FORMER CONVENT IS APPROXIMATELY THREE AND A HALF STORIES. SO THIS WILL ACTUALLY BE A LOWER, UH, UH, A BUILDING, UH, REPLACING, UH, REPLACING THE, THE CONDUCT. SEAN HAD MENTIONED THAT THE CONVENT IS OUTMODED. UM, NOT ONLY IS THERE, UH, ASBESTOS, BUT THERE'S A ELECTRIC GRID MOLD IN THE BUILDING. UH, THERE'S SOME ROOF REPAIR THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE. IT'S NOT A DA COMPLIANT, IT'S NOT A DA COMPLIANT. AND IT'S, UH, THE REASON WHY WE SAY IT'S HOW MODED IS, YOU WOULD THINK WE WOULD TRY TO DEVELOP THIS OR REDEVELOP THIS AS A MULTI-FAMILY HOUSING. THE WIDTH OF THIS, UH, THIS, UH, THIS PORTION RIGHT HERE OF THE BUILDING WOULD NOW NOT ALLOW US TO DO A CENTRAL LOADED CORRIDOR. SO THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS WHY, NOT JUST THE FACT THAT THERE'S ASBESTOS, WHICH WOULD HAVE TO BE REMOVED. AND WHEN SEAN MENTIONED THAT OUR PLAN IS TO DEMOLISH THIS, UH, WE'RE GONNA DO, WE'RE GONNA BE VERY SENSITIVE TO THE HISTORIC ELEMENTS, ESPECIALLY INTO THE CHAPEL HERE. SO OUR PLAN WOULD BE TO REPURPOSE SOME OF THE, UH, SOME OF THE ELEMENTS THAT ARE HISTORIC, UH, INTO THE NEW FACILITY. UH, SO THIS FACILITY, THREE [00:20:01] STORIES, A MIX OF ONE AND TWO BEDROOM UNITS. UM, SEAN HAD MENTIONED, WE BELIEVE THERE'S A MARKET. WE ACTUALLY HAD A MARKET STUDY PREPARED. UH, AND IT SHOWS A STRONG DEMAND FOR, UH, SENIOR HOUSING IN THE TOWN OF HAM. SO, UH, THAT'S ONE THING. THE SECOND COMPONENT, UH, WOULD BE OBVIOUSLY THE, UH, THE MARKET RATE APARTMENTS. WE TRY TO KEEP THESE LOW DENSITY, THE TWO STORY BUILDINGS, ALL WITH PRIVATE ENTRANCES. YOU'LL NOTICE THAT WE'RE INCORPORATING SOME, UH, DETACHED GARAGE BAYS, THE SERVICE OF BOTH THE SENIOR AND THE MARKET RATE HOUSING. UH, AND THEN THERE'S THIS BUILDING RIGHT HERE AT 5,400 SQUARE FOOT, THE FORMER SAN COLETTE, UH, STRUCTURE. IT WAS ANOTHER CONVENT. WE PLAN TO, UH, REHAB THAT STRUCTURE AND CREATE A MIXED USE, UH, PROJECT OUT OF THAT PORTION RIGHT THERE. GRO RIGHT HERE, SORRY. RIGHT THERE. THE GRO THAT WE SHOW HERE WILL BE RESTORED AND WILL BE A PART OF THIS WHOLE PROJECT. UH, OF COURSE, UH, CHRIS SHOWS SOME, UH, STORM. UH, THIS WILL HAVE TO BE FULLY ENGINEERED. AND ONE OF THE THINGS WE WANNA DO IS BECAUSE WE'RE TAKING DOWN THIS STRUCTURE, THERE'S A PARTIAL BASEMENT, SO WE WANTED TO USE SOME OF THAT AREA FOR, UH, RETENTION SO WE DON'T HAVE TO FILL THAT HOLE WITH, UH, DIRT AND THAT TYPE OF THING. SO, UM, ONE OTHER, UH, CONCEPT THAT WE WANNA DISCUSS OR TOUCH ON, EVEN THOUGH THIS IS NOT PART OF OUR, UH, WHAT WOULD BE OUR SITE PLAN SUBMISSION, IS THIS, UH, FORMER 66,000 SQUARE FOOT MEDICAL FACILITY. IT'S GOT A VINTAGE OF ABOUT 1993. UH, DOESN'T HAVE ANY CONTAMINANTS IN IT. IT'S IN RELATIVELY GREAT SHAPE. UH, WE REPLACED THE BOILER. THE PROPERTY OWNERS REPLACED THE BOILER IN THAT BUILDING, UH, NOT TOO LONG AGO. UH, BECAUSE THIS IS, UM, UH, WHEN WE CONCEIVED THIS, THIS PROJECT HERE IN ITS ENTIRETY DURING COVID, WE THOUGHT THAT LET'S GET THE MULTIFAMILY UP AND RUNNING, LET COVID, UH, PASS US AND THEN MARKET THIS TO A MEDICAL, UH, USER. UH, ONCE WE STARTED TO CONSIDER THAT DISCUSSIONS BECAME, UM, WE STARTED CONVERSING BACK AND FORTH, REALLY GREAT DISCUSSIONS WITH HILBERT COLLEGE. UM, AND THERE'S REPRESENTATIVES OF HILBERT HERE TONIGHT THAT CAN SPEAK TO THAT. UH, ONE OF THE CONCEPTS WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IS PERHAPS REDEVELOPING THIS, REFURBISHING IT INTO, UH, MULTI-TENANT MEDICAL. AND PERHAPS, UH, HILBERT CAN HAVE A ROLE IN THAT IN TERMS OF OWNERSHIP, PARTNERSHIP OPERATING, UH, PARTNERSHIP, UH, WITH OTHER MEDICAL PROVIDERS. UH, I THINK THEIR THOUGHT IS THAT THEY WOULD BRING IN, UH, MEDICAL PROVIDERS THAT, UH, WILL FILL THE NEED IN THE IMMEDIATE SOUTH TOWNS AREA IN HAM. UM, ONE OF THE THINGS WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IS WE STARTED TO HAVE EXTENSIVE CONVERSATIONS WITH THE PRESIDENT, UH, AND KEY MEMBERS OF HIS STAFF IS, UH, UH, THEY SEE A SYMBIOTIC RELATIONSHIP WITH DEVELOPING HERE. SO ONE OF THE THINGS THEY OFFER, OF COURSE, THIS IS ALL CONCEPTUAL OR PRELIMINARY AT THIS POINT, IS THEY WILL MAKE THEIR COLLEGE CAMPUS AVAILABLE FOR THE 125 RENTERS OF THIS SENIOR HOUSING PROJECT. WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? THAT MEANS THAT IF YOU LIVE HERE, YOU CAN GO AND USE FREE OF CHARGE, THE SCHOOL'S GYM, THEIR TRACK, THE WORKOUT FACILITY, THE LIBRARY ATHLETIC EVENTS, AND THAT KIND OF THING. UH, SO WE THINK THERE'S A REALLY SOLID OPPORTUNITY HERE TO FORM A SORT OF A STRATEGIC ALLIANCE WITH GILBERT, AND I'LL LET THEM TALK TO THAT. THAT'S NOT PART OF OUR APPLICATION. WE'RE GONNA SEVER THIS RIGHT HERE, UH, SHORE IT UP, AND THEN LOOK TO DEVELOP THIS IN THE FUTURE. THE OTHER ASPECT OF THIS PROJECT, I JUST WANNA REMIND EVERYONE GOING BACK IN HISTORY. SO WHEN WE DID ORIGINALLY PRESENT OVERALL REDEVELOPMENT PLAN FOR THIS ENTIRE SITE, AT THAT POINT IN TIME, WE WERE SHOWING AN APPROXIMATELY 90,000 SQUARE FOOT COMMERCIAL BUILDING UP HERE, WHICH SOME OF YOU MAY RECALL. IT WAS REALLY THAT ASPECT OF THE PROJECT. WHILE ULTIMATELY WE HAD, UH, GOOD DISCUSSIONS IN COLLABORATION WITH THE NEARBY RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORS, THAT WAS ACTUALLY THE BIGGEST CONCERN THEY HAD, WAS THE SIZE AND PROXIMITY OF THAT COMMERCIAL COMPONENT. WHILE AGAIN, THEY'VE NOT SEEN THE UPDATED PLAN, IT IS IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT THAT HAS BEEN ELIMINATED. ONE OF THE OTHER THINGS I JUST WANNA BRING UP ON THE FORMER PLAN THAT WE PROPOSED AND GOT APPROVAL FOR, UH, WAS, UH, WE WERE TALKING ABOUT SOME, UH, 60 TOWN, UH, YEAH, 60 TOWN HOMES IN THIS AREA AND HERE FOR SALE. ONE OF THE KEY COMPONENTS TO A FOR SALE PRODUCT IS, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COMES TO TOWN HOME LIVING, IS A BASEMENT. UM, WE HAD SOME GEOTECHNICAL STUDIES DONE THAT SHOWED THAT THERE IS, UM, A ROCK, UH, SOMEWHAT SHALLOW HERE, AND WE AGREED TO NOT BLAST OR MAKE ANY SOUND. SO THAT WAS ANOTHER REASON WHY WE, UH, [00:25:01] WE 86TH, THAT PLAN, WE WANTED TO BE SENSITIVE TO THE NEIGHBORS AROUND. WE MADE THAT, UH, WE MADE THAT PROMISE, AND WE DIDN'T THINK WE, WE COULD ACTUALLY THEN START DIGGING AND MAKING NOISE FOR BASEMENTS. AND I BELIEVE IN CONNECTION WITH THE PREVIOUS PROJECT, THIS BOARD ACTUALLY IMPOSE THAT AS A CONDITION. THAT'S RIGHT. WE DID. YEAH. YEAH. AND SO THIS PROJECT HERE WOULD THEN BE SLAMMED ON GRADE, UH, THE APARTMENTS WOULD BE SLAMMED ON GRADE, NO BASEMENTS. UH, SIR, DO YOU HAVE ANY NOTES FROM MONDAY'S BOARD MEETING? BECAUSE THE TOWN BOARD AUTHORIZED THE CREATION OF A HISTORIC PRESERVATION ADVISORY COMMITTEE ON MONDAY. SO DO YOU HAVE THAT RESOLUTION? I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO DO IF THIS PROJECT, BECAUSE IT'S DEMOLISHING AN OLD BUILDING IS GONNA HAVE TO BE REVIEWED BY THEM, OR, I DON'T REMEMBER THAT THE, THAT THE RESOLUTION WAS VERY DETAILED. OKAY. IT JUST, I THINK IT JUST ESTABLISHED THE GROUP. RIGHT. SO, SO WE, WE NOW HAVE A HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE WHERE BEFORE MONDAY WE DIDN'T. SO I THINK HOW, HOW OLD IS THE, THE CONVENT PART? SEVERAL DIFFERENT. IT WAS ADDED ON, UH, BUT 19 30, 19 40 AND THEN 19 66, 19 72. SO HAS, I GUESS AS PART OF THIS, ARE YOU COORDINATING WITH THE, THE SHIPPO ABOUT THE FACT THAT THAT'S AN OLDER BUILDING AND I KNOW THAT OFTEN THAT DOESN'T NECESSARILY MEAN THAT YOU'RE, THAT'S GONNA PRECLUDE IT, BUT THEN THEY MAY SUGGEST SOMETHING LIKE PLACEMENT OF PLACARDS OR OTHER ITEMS TO PRESERVE THE HISTORIC CHARACTER AND RECOGNIZE ITS PAST USES OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. RIGHT. WELL, WHAT THE PREVIOUS COMMENT I MADE TO, UH, CATALOG SOME OF THE HISTORIC PIECES OF THAT AND INTRODUCE THEM INTO THE NEW PROJECT. AND THEN, YOU KNOW, WE'RE, WE'RE VERY FAMILIAR WITH THE SHIPPO PROCESS WHEN IT COMES TO THAT. SO, YOU KNOW, THAT WOULD BE OUR INTENT YES. TO WORK WITH SHIPPO. ABSOLUTELY. RIGHT. AND, AND TO THE EXTENT, YOU KNOW, THE TOWN HAS RECENTLY FORMED A LOCAL HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE, AND OBVIOUSLY WE'VE GOTTA SEE WHAT THAT MEANS. IF THIS PROJECT REQUIRES THEIR INPUT, US MEETING WITH THEM, WE GLADLY DO THAT. SO I THINK THIS IS A, IS A REALLY NEAT PROJECT. UM, AND I LIKE THAT YOU GUYS ARE WORKING ON REDEVELOPING. I KNOW THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT'S COME UP IN THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN IS, YOU KNOW, A FOCUS ON TRYING TO REVITALIZE AND REUSE UNDERUTILIZED SPACES IN THE TOWN AND LOOKING AT THIS HOLISTICALLY ACROSS, IT WOULD BE NEAT TO SEE YOU TIE INTO SORT OF A CAMPUS THEME ACROSS THIS WITH YOUR LANDSCAPING AND THE ELEMENTS AND INTERCONNECTIONS FOR IF YOU ARE GONNA SEE YOUR HOUSING, SOME WALKING APPROPRIATE WALKING PATHS FOR PEOPLE WHO MAYBE ARE NOT, YOU KNOW, OUT SPRINTING THE DISTANCE ON THE TRACK, OR PEOPLE WHO ARE DOWNSIZING, BASICALLY ONE OF THESE RECREATION SPACES COULD GET TURNED INTO LIKE A COMMUNITY GARDEN OR SOMETHING THAT, THAT COULD GET USED FOR PEOPLE WHO NO LONGER HAVE A YARD WHO DON'T WANT THE UPKEEP THEY'RE TRYING TO DOWNSIZE, BUT STILL WANNA, YOU KNOW, DABBLE IN SOMETHING THAT THAT'S TARGETED IF THEY CAN GET A REALLY ATTRACTIVE, LIVABLE, FUNCTIONAL COMMUNITY. ABSOLUTELY. CHRIS, WHAT OUR CIVIL ENGINEERS POINTED OUT THAT THIS, THE MARKET RATE, UH, PROPERTIES IN HERE WILL HAVE ITS OWN COMMUNITY CENTER. UH, WE CALL IT MAYBE A MALE KIOSK OR, UH, YOU KNOW, A SEATING AREA IN THE BACK. YOU CAN RENT THIS ROOM OUT, THAT TYPE OF THING. UM, ONE OF THE THINGS WE'LL MOST LIKELY LOOK AT IS AS OUR CONVERSATIONS EVOLVE WITH GILBERT COLLEGE, WE MIGHT LOOK AT ALL OF THE BUILDINGS THAT TOUCH THAT CAMPUS. AND THERE MIGHT BE A DIFFERENT APPROACH HERE. WE MIGHT, UH, ELECT TO MOVE SOME BUILDINGS FROM HERE ALONG THIS TIME HERE. UM, ALTHOUGH AGAIN, VERY PRELIMINARY, THE PRESIDENT HAS SAID, YOU KNOW, WE WANT TO, UH, TRY TO ATTRACT, UH, UH, MORE STUDENTS TO THE CAMPUS. AND HOUSING IS A VERY IMPORTANT PART. SO WHEN WE STARTED TO INTRODUCE THIS, IT'S THE RADAR WENT UP WITH THE PRESIDENT. SO THERE COULD BE A PORTION OF THIS, ALTHOUGH DETAILS WOULD'VE TO BE WORKED OUT, UH, THAT WE COULD SHARE THIS SPACE WITH HILBERT AND THEIR STUDENTS. SO I CAN'T UNDERSCORE THAT ENOUGH. THE, THE THE PARTNER OR THE SO-CALLED THE BUDDY PARTNERSHIP WITH THE COLLEGE WOULD BE, I THINK IT WOULD BE, WOULD BENEFIT, UH, THREE SIDES. NOT ONLY OUR DEVELOPMENT, BUT THEIR CURRICULUM, THEIR GROWING CURRICULUM, AND THAT MEDICAL NEED THAT WE TALKED ABOUT. AND, UH, ALSO THE TALENT. UH, THIS WOULD CREATE A TREMENDOUS BOOST. UH, I THINK IT'LL CLEAN UP THIS CORNER [00:30:01] HERE. IT'S A VERY, UH, VERY, UH, UH, VISIBLE CORNER. I THINK. I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT. I THINK THERE WILL PAY SPECIAL ATTENTION TO WALKING AND PEDESTRIAN PATH AND ALL THAT IN THERE. SO THE OTHER THING THAT I THOUGHT OF YOU GUYS MENTIONED, UM, ASBESTOS AND, AND SOME OF THE OTHER BUILDING STUFF. JUST, UH, LEAD PAINT AND WHATEVER AB MAINTENANCE PROCEDURES YOU MIGHT HAVE DURING DEMOLITION, AND THEN HOW YOU WOULD PROPOSE TO GO ABOUT DEMOLITION IF YOU'RE, UH, YOU KNOW, HOW YOU'RE GONNA GONNA COME IN WITH WRECKING BALL, ARE THEY GONNA BE, YOU KNOW, DOING SOME SORT OF CLOSING? I DON'T KNOW WHAT, WHAT YOU DO FOR THIS TYPE OF BUILDING, BUT I GUESS THE DETAILS OF THAT DEMOLITION PLAN AND HOW YOU'RE PROPOSING TO DO THAT WOULD BE GOOD TO SEE AS YOU MOVE THROUGH. RIGHT. WE'D HAVE TO FILE FOR A DEMOLITION PERMIT. UM, WE HAVE AN ASBESTOS STUDY. I'VE GOT SEVERAL QUOTE QUOTES FROM, WELL-HEELED DEMOLITION CONTRACTORS. THE DEMOLITION IS WHAT WE LIKE TO CALL IT, SORT OF A PHASE DEMOLITION. ONE OF OUR PLANS WOULD BE TO REUSE AS MUCH OF THE BUILDING AS WE CAN. FOR EXAMPLE, THE BLONDE BRICK ON THE BUILDING WILL BE PULVERIZED ON SITE AND REDISTRIBUTED UNDERNEATH THE PARKING AREAS FOR, UH, SELECT FILL. UM, YOU KNOW, WE'LL, AGAIN, WE'VE GOTTA CATALOG AND TAKE OUT ALL HISTORIC COMPONENTS. UH, WE'D HAVE TO, UH, ERRATIC, WE'D HAVE TO REMOVE THE MOLD, REMOVE THE ASBESTOS, AND ALL THAT GETS TAKEN TO A SPECIFIC LANDFILL, UH, AS REGULATED. UM, AND THEN THE STRUCTURE WILL COME DOWN IN PIECES. IT'S NOT LIKE A WRECKING BALL SHOWS UP ON SITE AND KNOCKS IT OVER IN ONE DAY. THAT DEMOLITION COULD PROBABLY TAKE, YOU KNOW, EIGHT WEEKS TO DO ALL OF THE THINGS I'M TALKING ABOUT DOING. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? PRETTY KIND OF STORAGE UNITS IN THESE APARTMENTS. I'M CURIOUS. THE SENIOR HOUSING HAS, UH, STORAGE, UH, IN, SO THE KNUCKLE SPACES, WE PROGRAM A LITTLE BIT OF STORAGE IN THERE FOR THE SENIORS. UM, AND, UH, THE, THE APARTMENTS HAVE SOME STORAGE AREA ON THE FIRST FLOOR, BUT NOT, YOU KNOW, I, ANYTHING HUGE. THEY DO, THEY DO HAVE THE DETACHED GARAGES THOUGH. YEAH. GUYS, THE GARAGES, THEY CAN USE THE STORAGE. THEY, THEY GET THAT THEY DON'T HAVE VEHICLES. RIGHT, RIGHT. OKAY. HOW MANY DETACHED GARAGES AND HOW MUCH PARKING ARE YOU PLANNING? THERE'S ABOUT, THERE'S ABOUT 300 PARKING SPOTS, UM, ASSOCIATED FOR HOW MANY TOTAL BEDROOMS? THERE'S 136 IN THE GREEN BUILDINGS AND 125 IN THE SENIOR. WELL, A 1 36 AND A 1 25 UNITS. BUT NOT BEDROOMS. RIGHT? WELL, RIGHT. WELL THE APARTMENTS WOULD BE TWO BEDROOM. RIGHT. THE APARTMENTS ARE A MIX OF ONES AND TWOS. OKAY. WELL, PREDOMINANTLY TWO BILLING. THERE'S TWO DIFFERENT BILLING TYPES. AND THEN THE PREDOMINANT ROTH. RIGHT. FOR THE SENIOR BUILDING, PREDOMINANTLY ONE BEDROOM UNITS, BUT THERE WOULD BE SOME TWO, WELL, I WOULD SAY THERE'S PROBABLY A 50 50 MIX. OKAY. OF THE ONES AND TWOS. SO THIS IS OUR MARKET STUDY. AND THEN, YOU KNOW, IN HERE, UH, I THINK IT WAS MORE LIKE 60 40. AND WHAT WE HAVE FOUND IN CONNECTION WITH THESE AFFORDABLE SENIOR HOUSING PROJECTS AND SUBURBAN LOCATIONS, AND THIS IS ACTUALLY AFTER LOOKING AT DOZENS OF THEM, OR AT LEAST EVERYONE IN WESTERN NEW YORK, GENERALLY SPEAKING, THE PEAK PARKING DEMAND FOR THOSE IS HALF A CAR PER UNIT, REGARDLESS OF THE NUMBER OF BEDROOMS BEING, SO IF YOU HAVE A TWO BEDROOM UNIT, YOU GENERALLY NEED HALF A PARKING SPACE. AND THE PEAK DEMAND FOR PARKING IS WHEN YOU FIRST OPEN. BECAUSE WHAT HAPPENS IS MANY PEOPLE THAT HAVE TO SELL THEIR HOUSES AND LIVE THERE, THEY STAY THERE AS LONG AS THEY CAN. SO FOR EXAMPLE, THE ONE MY MOM LIVED ON MILL STREET, WHICH HAD BEEN OPEN FOR 15 YEARS AT THAT POINT, IT WAS PROBABLY DOWN TO A PARKING DEMAND OF 0.2 SPACES PER 'CAUSE TO A LARGE DEGREE. THERE JUST WEREN'T PEOPLE THAT THERE COULD DRIVE ANYWHERE. RIGHT. ONE OF THE OTHER THINGS WE LOOK AT FOR SENIOR HOUSING IS, UH, BUS ROUTE. THERE'S A BUS STOP RIGHT HERE, WHICH IS NICE. HOW MANY, HOW MANY BUSES TRAVEL THERE? THERE'S 60, I THINK. BUT WHERE, HOW MANY OTHER BUSES? I CAN CHECK THE, I CAN CHECK FT. YEAH, I CAN CHECK THE MFTA AND GET THE ROB SCHEDULE FOR THAT. THAT'S POSTED ONLINE. BUT I CAN, I WAS JUST CURIOUS. IF YOU GET 16, YOU GUYS WILL BE SUBMITTING YOUR PARKING ANALYSIS. THIS BOARD MAKES A DECISION ON THE NUMBER OF PARKING SPACES. OBVIOUSLY YOU'LL PRESENT INFORMATION LIKE YOU WOULD DO AS EDA. THIS IS WHY THE AMOUNT OF PARKING WE'RE GONNA PROVIDE MY EXPERIENCE, WE, MY IN-LAWS LIVE, THERE WAS NEVER ENOUGH PARKING. NEVER ENOUGH PARKING, BUT RIGHT. YEAH. I THINK IF YOU GO TO ANY OF THESE PROJECTS IN WEST NEW YORK, YOU'LL SEE THERE IS SURPLUS MARKET. YEAH. YEAH. AS IF THEY WERE DONE IN THE SEVENTIES AND EIGHTIES WHEN THEY OVER PARKED EVERYTHING. THE DEATH. YEAH, MY POINT. YOU KNOW, I THINK WE HAD 0.95. YEP, WE DID. AND THERE'S, THERE'S SPOTS THERE ALL THE TIME. AND THAT'S, THERE WAS, AND IT WAS VERY A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TIME PERIOD. RIGHT. THAT WAS ABOUT FOUR YEARS AGO. RIGHT. [00:35:01] AND WHICH LO WHICH COMMUNITY IS THAT LOCATED, LOCATED? MEYER POINT IN AMHERST, WHICH IS ON MEYER ROAD AND AMHERST, WHICH IS DIRECTLY BEHIND THE TOPS ON MAYLAND. THAT'S A FOUR STORY BUILDING. A HUNDRED MILLION UNITS. AND IT CAME OUT VERY NICE AND VERY WELL RECEIVED. AND HOW MANY BUS ROUTES GO BY AT ONE? DO YOU KNOW? I'D HAVE TO NONE GO DIRECTLY BY THE SITE, BUT THERE ARE BUSES THERE. RIGHT ON FALLS BOULEVARD AT MEYER ROAD, WHICH RIGHT DOWN THE STREET, ONE OF THE THINGS THE TOWN WAS AMHERST WAS IN, REMEMBER IT SCORED VERY HIGH, ROB ON THE WALKABILITY THE HIGHEST OF ANY, ANY SENIOR HOUSING PROJECT IN A, IN WESTERN EUROPE. IN WESTERN YORK. YEAH. UH, I MEAN, YOU, YOU SAID EARLIER THAT'S A HIGHLY VISIBLE CORNER. I THINK THE PREVIOUSLY APPROVED PLAN HAD SOME FEATURES ON THAT CORNER THAT WERE MORE AESTHETICALLY PLEASING THAT THAN THE, THE BERM IN THE BUILDING. I, I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S SOMETHING YOU GUYS CAN DO THERE. WHICH ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? THE CORNER OF THE CORNER OF SOUTH? YEAH. RIGHT, RIGHT, RIGHT THERE. RIGHT WHERE THE TRAFFIC SIGNAL. EXACTLY. EXACTLY. WASN'T THERE DETENTION AT THE CORNER OF SEOS AND THE HIL COLLEGE ENTRANCE? IT WAS PROJECT, IT WAS, NO, I DIDN'T DO THAT. YEAH, IT WAS OH YEAH. YEAH. THE PLAN THAT BILL SHUT DID FOR THE PREVIOUS PROJECT, THAT IS WHERE IT WAS LOCATED. AND KEEP IN MIND THAT'S WHERE THAT RETAIL COMPONENT WAS GOING TO GO. BUT I THINK WE CAN LOOK AT SOME KIND OF FOCAL ABSOLUTE YEAH, YEAH. WE WILL DEFINITELY LOOK AT THAT. THAT IS A PROMINENT INTERSECTION. YEAH. ARE ARE YOU KEEPING THE EVERGREENS, EVERYBODY KNOWS THAT AREA BY THE PLANTED ROWS OF EVERGREENS ALONG SOUTH PARK. ALONG SOUTH PARK. YEAH. SOUTH PARK. WE WOULD LOVE TO KEEP THOSE EVERGREENS. I MEAN, YOU, YOU CAN REALLY NOT SEE INTO THE SITE BECAUSE OF THOSE EVERGREENS. IT'S REALLY DIFFICULT TO SEE SITE, I MEAN, PLUSES AND MINUSES FOR THAT, BUT THEY ARE FEATURED TO THAT AREA OF THOSE EVERGREENS. YEAH. THEY LOOK GREAT. AND WHAT'S A, WHAT'S LESS EXPENSIVE THAN PLANTING A TREE, RIGHT? . KEEPING THE TREE, THE TREE . ABSOLUTELY. SO DID YOU SAY, I APOLOGIZE, UM, JUST TAKING A, ARE THERE ANY STATE DESIGNATED, UH, HISTORIC STRUCTURES OR ARE THESE JUST BUILDINGS THAT ARE ELIGIBLE FOR ELIGIBLE? THEY'RE ELIGIBLE. OKAY. ALRIGHT. THEY'RE PROBABLY ALL ELIGIBLE, BUT THEY'RE ALL OVER 50 YEARS. YEAH. JUST BASED ON THE AGE. YEAH. BUT THERE'S NOTHING THAT POPS UP AS A STATE DESIGNATED HISTORIC STRUCTURE OR LOCALLY. WE'LL CHECK WITH THE SURE. THE TOWN IS STORING. I, THERE'S AND AS ROB INDICATED, THE BUILDING IS GONNA BE DEMOLISHED. IT'S JUST NOT THE ORIGINAL BUILDING. THERE'S BEEN COUNTLESS ADDITIONS ONTO IT. NO. WITH THAT, WITH THAT BEING SAID, TO THE EXTENT WE CAN INTEGRATE THE HISTORICAL ELEMENTS OF THAT, WE WILL. ANYTHING ELSE FOR TODAY ON THIS? NO. UM, WHAT WAS THE QUESTION? SO, SO ANYTHING ELSE FOR TODAY? OH, WELL MY QUESTION IS, ARE THEY, ARE YOU GONNA PROCEED WITH SITE PLAN FOR THE WHOLE THING OR ARE YOU GONNA PHASE IT? YOU'RE GONNA LOOK FOR SITE PLAN APPROVAL OF THE ENTIRE PRODUCT. EXCEPT FOR THE, EXCEPT FOR THE, EXCEPT FOR THE, WHICH IS THERE, WHICH IS WHICH BUILDING IS THAT? YOU'RE JUST GONNA LABEL THE EXISTING BUILDING. YEAH. SO I THINK ALL WE WOULD ASK TONIGHT IS THAT YOU AUTHORIZE, UH, COMMENCING A COORDINATED ENVIRONMENTAL REVIEW. IT'S GONNA THEN TAKE, IT IS GONNA THEN TAKE NOT YET. WE HAVEN'T, YEAH, WE, BUT WE WILL, I MEAN IT'S GONNA, YOU KNOW, WE WANNA TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION SOME OF THE INPUT RECEIVED SPECIFICALLY FROM, UH, CHAIRMAN CLARK AND MR. MCCORMICK. WE'LL TAKE THAT INTO CONSIDERATION, BUT IT'S NOT GONNA AFFECT THE WHOLESALE LAYOUT. AND THEN OBVIOUSLY WE'RE GONNA CONTINUE TO ENGAGE IN CONVERSATIONS WITH HILBURN. BUT JUST SO THAT WAY WHEN WE HAVE OUR PLANS READY, UH, WE CAN START THE COORDINATED ENVIRONMENTAL HIL HILBERT AND THE OTHER ADJOINING NEIGHBORS AS WELL. AND THE OTHER ADJOIN NEIGHBORS. AND JUST TO CLARIFY, KAITLIN'S ASKED FOR, YOU'VE ASKED FOR CONCEPT ON DEMOLITION. YOU REALLY NEED TO TALK OBVIOUSLY TO THE CODE ENFORCEMENT OFFICER AND, AND GET IT APPROVED THROUGH HIM BEFORE YOU PRESENT ANYTHING TO THE PLANNING BOARD. WE HAD TO HAVE ONE BEFORE WHERE WE COMMENT ON SOMETHING. IT'S, IT'S THE BUILDING INSPECTOR DEPARTMENT. THEY KNOW ALL THE RULES AND REGULATIONS OR WHATEVER. JUST WORK OUT A DRAFT PLAN WITH THEM AND THEN YOU CAN SHOW IT TO THE PLANNING BOARD ON WHAT THE DEMO. YEAH. AND HER OTHER COMMENT, I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE IT'S CLEAR, IS THAT SHE'S ALSO ASKED TO CONSIDER, YOU KNOW, INTEGRATING THE USES SOME MORE PEDESTRIAN ACCESS. SO WE'LL TAKE A LOOK AT THAT AS WELL. ABSOLUTE. YEP. AND THEN THE OLD PLAN, WE DID TALK ABOUT PRESERVING BLOOD. SORRY. SURE. YEAH. I MEAN IF A PROJECT I, I, I KNOW THAT THEY'RE ASKING US TO AUTHORIZE RESOLUTIONS, BUT I'D BE, I DON'T KNOW IF WE SHOULD BE STARTING A COORDINATED REVIEW ON SPEAKER UNTIL THEY FILE THE PART ONE. WELL, NO, WE'D HAVE TO DO THAT JUST SO THAT ONCE WE DO THAT, UH, THE P DEPARTMENT, SARAH AND OR DREW CAN SEND IT OUT. THAT'S ALL. ALRIGHT. YEAH. I CAN'T GO OUT UNTIL WE DO THAT. OF COURSE. UM, YEAH, BUT TO PIGGYBACK ON THE WALKABILITY THING, IT'D BE NICE IF THIS PROJECT WAS ABLE TO BEAT AMHERST [00:40:01] WITH THAT SCORE. WELL TOP IS RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET BELOW BALL AND PREMIER. AND SO THAT, THAT THERE'S MORE PLACES TO WALK THE POST OFFICE RIGHT NEXT PART. WE'RE NOT GONNA BEAT THAT SCHOOL. I MEAN, EVENTUALLY, AND THAT'S BEEN A PLAN OF THE TOWN. WE HAVE TO MAKE SOUTH PARK MORE WALKABLE BETWEEN GILBERT, THIS, THIS COMPLEX, THE FAIRGROUNDS, THE TOWN HALL, THE ENTRANCE INTO THE VILLAGE. IT ALL HAS TO BECOME WALKABLE AT SOME POINT BECAUSE JUST WE TALKED ABOUT WITH HILBERT THAT THE COLLEGE STUDENTS AT LEAST BE ABLE TO WALK DOWN THE ROAD TO THESE, THE DIFFERENT FACILITIES THAT EXIST IN THE AREA. MM-HMM . AND IT'S, IT CERTAINLY IS WALKABLE TO HILBERT. WE, WE KNOW THAT, UH, THE MEYER POINT PROJECT, I MEAN, YOU, YOU'RE, YOU'RE IN SOME OF THE LARGEST RETAIL SECTOR. IT WAS AN INFILL PROJECT SURROUNDED BY RETAIL. PLUS THERE WAS A LASER TREND RIGHT DOWN THE ROAD. SO, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF THE SENIORS WERE WITH SENIOR DISCOUNT. YEAH. THEY WERE WITH GO-KARTS. WITH GO-KART. RIGHT. LASER TRENDS. UM, WHEN THIS PROJECT COMES BACK, CAN YOU TELL US HOW MANY BEDROOMS WILL BE TOTAL FOR THE PROJECT? SURE. ABSOLUTELY. YEAH, WE CAN DO THAT. AND WE'LL UPDATE THE SITE DATA TABLE PLAN TO SHOW THAT. THANK YOU. WE HAVE THE ACTUAL PARKING SPACES. DEFINITELY. SO ONE LAST THING. UM, IS THERE A BUS STOP ON THAT CORNER AND CAN YOU MAKE THAT A MORE ENTICING, ACCESSIBLE? THERE'S A BUS STOP RIGHT HERE. BUS STOPS AT THAT DRIVEWAY. SO I GOT MAYBE YOU PUT A BENCH OR SOMETHING IN THERE. RIGHT. OKAY. WE CAN LOOK AT THAT. YEAH. ON A PLANT OR SOMETHING SO THAT IT'S CLEAR THAT THERE'S A BUS STOP AND MAYBE IT'S MAYBE AT SOME POINT IT'LL BECOME A GOOD USEFUL THING. RIGHT. ISN'T IT LIKE A COVERED BUS STOP WITH A BENCH RIGHT NOW? I THINK THERE IS. I'LL DRIVE BY ON WAY HOME AND TAKE A LOOK. SEE? YEAH, I THINK IT'S GOT A BENCH AND, AND THE, THE THING, YOU CAN SIT IN THE STRUCTURE IF IT'S RAINING AND YEAH. WE'LL ADD IT ONTO THE PLAN. RIGHT. OKAY. YEAH. A PLAN, WE'LL SEE. PLAN FOR TRASH DISPOSAL. GOOD QUESTION. UH, YOU HAVE DUMPSTERS. WE HAVE A COMPACT THERE. THE, I JUST DON'T SEE ANYTHING HERE. THAT'S WHAT I WAS WONDERING. RIGHT. WELL, WHAT WE TYPICALLY PROGRAM INSIDE THE SENIOR HOUSING IS EVERY FLOOR IN THE CORNERS OF EVERY FLOOR, THERE'S A TRASH CHUTE AND IT GOES DOWN TO THE FIRST FLOOR AND IT GETS COMPACTED. AND THEN THE PROPERTY MANAGEMENT MANAGER TAKES THAT, WHEELS IT OUT FOR PRIVATE COLLECTION. AND IN TERMS OF THE, UH, MARKET RATE APARTMENTS, THEY'LL BE, UH, WE'LL HAVE TO ADD SOME, UH, DUMPSTER LOCATIONS. SO THE TENANTS WILL WALK, THE TENANTS WILL WALK THEIR TRASH TO THE ADJOINING DUMPSTER AREA THAT WILL HAVE TO BE ADDED TO THE PLANT. AND THEY WILL BE ENCLOSED AS REQUIRED BY THE CODE. THEY'LL FOLLOW THE, I I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT. I WORKED AT HOUSING FOR 10 YEARS AND THOSE DUMPSTERS, WHEN THEY'RE ON THE, ON THE FIRST FLOOR, THEY TEND NOT TO BE EMPTIED, UH, OR TAKEN CARE OF PROPERLY. AND IT KIND OF GETS ODOR, UH, EMISSIONS. UH, HOW, WHAT IS, WHO'S THE MANAGER AND WHAT IS, WHAT'S HIS TIME GONNA BE ON THAT? 'CAUSE I'M TELLING YOU, UH, YOU LEAVE THOSE OUT AND THEY DON'T TAKE CARE AGAINST STEAM. WELL, NUMBER ONE, THERE'S VENTILATION IN THE REFUSE ROOM. UH, NUMBER TWO, THAT THE PROPERTY IS MANAGED, UH, AS AN ONSITE MANAGER AND AN ONSITE MAINTENANCE PERSON WHOSE RESPONSIBILITY IS TO CARE FOR THAT SPECIFIC ITEM. UH, IN THE MEYER POINT PROJECT, WE HAVE, WE HAVE NOT HAD ANY, ANY INCIDENTS THAT WE DO, JUST THAT WE SHOOT THE TRASH DOWN ON SEVERAL FLOORS INTO ONE COMPACTED AND, UH, AND THE MANAGER TAKES IT OUT RELIGIOUSLY. AND IT'S REALLY A PROPERTY MANAGEMENT ISSUE. IS IT, IS IT MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE? AND THIS WILL BE PROFESSIONALLY MANAGED. IT'S STILL A CONCERN, UH, OF MINE ANYWAY, THAT, TO MAKE SURE THAT THE PROPERTY MANAGER'S, UH, ON TOP OF THAT. RIGHT. OKAY. PERFECT. SO I, I WILL MAKE A MOTION TO ALLOW THE COORDINATED REVIEW ON 5 2 7 2 SOUTH PARK AVENUE LLC TO BEGIN WHEN PART ONE OF THE EAF IS FILED WITH THE TOWN. SECOND. SO MOTION BY MR. CLARK, SECOND BY MRS. MCCORMICK. ALL IN FAVOR? IT'S COME ALREADY TODAY. RIGHT THERE. THERE YOU GO. EVERY MEETING. EVERY MEETING. OKAY. BUT I GOT FACE MEETING THAT BILL. IT'S ONLY THE WORK SESSIONS. YOU HAVE A CHANCE TO CORRECT US . I AM STILL GONNA DO IT TOO. GUARANTEE IT. ALRIGHT. MOTION BY MR. CLARK. SECOND BY MRS. KAFER. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. MOTION. AYE. THANK [00:45:01] YOU. JUST BASED ON CAITLYN'S COMMENT, UNDERSTAND, WE'LL DO THE COORDINATOR REVIEW, WE'LL ESTABLISH THE , THE AGENCY. BUT UNTIL WE GET A FULL PACKAGE WITH ALL THE DETAILS, TOTALLY FINE. CA AND I'LL JUST START MATCHING. WE'LL REALLY MESS WITH YOU. IT'S LIKE BROKEN. I KNOW IN MY HEAD NOW IT SO BROKEN. I KNOW. I DON'T ACTUALLY THINK MEGAN AND I SOUND LIKE IT ALL. YOU DON'T, YOU'RE NOT HELPING YOURSELF THOUGH. YOU'RE LIKE A VOICE FROM THE COMPUTER. I'M SITTING RIGHT NEXT TO HIM. RIGHT. THERE'S NO EXCUSE ACROSS FROM IT. THERE'S, THERE'S NO EXCUSE. I, I DUNNO WHAT'S HAPPENING. COMIC RELIEF. START CALLING ME DOG UPSET. CAN I THINK WHAT? UPSET. ALL RIGHT. WE, WE STILL HAVE ITEMS ON THE WORK SESSION. UH, NEXT, NEXT ITEM IS BLOOM. CREATIVE ARTS REQUESTING PLANNING BOARD CONSIDERATION OF A SITE PLAN WAIVER FOR A PROJECT TO BE, TO UTILIZE A VACANT BUILDING LOCATED AT 3 6 7 4 COMM COMMERCE PARKWAY FOR PRESCHOOL. OKAY. DREW CAN'T TALK ABOUT THIS BECAUSE I DIDN'T REALIZE WENDELL DID THIS. ALL THE ARCHITECT. OKAY. UM, MEGAN IS HERE. THIS IS MEGAN. THE, UM, WE, AT FIRST WE THOUGHT THAT THIS COULD BE A CYCL PLAN WAIVER, BUT THEY NEED A SPECIAL USE PERMIT. BUT THEN WE REALIZED THAT THEY NEED A SPECIAL USE PERMIT AND THEY'RE GONNA HAVE TO ADD A PLAY AREA WITH A, IS THERE GONNA BE A FENCE THAT'S ADDED? THEY HAVE, THEY HAVE ONE ON THE PLAN, RIGHT? IT'S ON THE PLANS. PHONE PLANS. UM, I HAVE ALL THE DOCUMENTATION THAT I NEED FROM 'EM FOR SOCIAL USE PERMIT. SO IF THEY'RE COMFORTABLE SETTING UP OVER HEARING, IT'S LIKE TWO WEEKS. UM, THEY'RE READY TO GO. JUST SO YOU KNOW, THE PLAY AREA, IS IT, WHAT, WHAT'S THE SIZE REQUIREMENT FOR A PLAY AREA FOR A DAYCARE CENTER? UM, THERE'S REALLY NOT, UM, YEAH, IT'S, IT'S LIKE, IT JUST NEEDS A GRASSY AREA THAT'S FENCED IN FROM HIS DISPLAY. SO I MEAN, IF IT COMES DOWN TO THE NUTS AND BOLTS OF IT, YOU KNOW, IT, IT CAN BE AS SMALL AS, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING LIKE, UM, LIKE 30 BY 30. THEY JUST BE A FENCING AREA WHERE THEY CAN, LIKE, THE AREA WE HAVE IS ABOUT 44 BY 35. AND WHERE IS THAT GONNA BE LOCATED WITH THE BUILDING? IT'S, UH, IN THE SIDE YARD. UM, IT'S DIRECTLY BETWEEN THE BUILDING AND COMMERCE PLACE. ALRIGHT. SO YOU, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TRAFFIC ON ONE SIDE OF THE PLAY AREA, CORRECT? YEP. RIGHT. A COMMERCE PLACE. THERE'S A PRETTY SIZABLE, UM, RIGHT OF WAY FOR, UH, NATURAL GRID AND UH, NATURAL FUEL. UM, SO THAT TAKES UP, IT'S PROBABLY ALMOST 25 FEET OFF THE ROADWAY BEFORE THE FENCED AREA WOULD START. IS THAT GONNA BE FENCED IN THAT PLAY AREA? YEP. IT'S GONNA BE A, JUST A FOUR FOOT HIGH, UM, VINYL, WHITE VINYL FENCE. JUST SOMETHING TO KEEP THE KIDS IN. OKAY, THANK YOU. SO JUST TO BE CLEAR, THERE'S THOSE, THAT CLUSTER OF THE THREE BUILDINGS THERE, ONE HAS THE QUEST DIAGNOSTICS IN IT, ONE WAS LIFE MEDICAL AND THERE WAS THE REAL ESTATE BUILDING. THIS IS THE ONE THAT THE REAL ESTATE BUILDING WAS IN, RIGHT? NO, THIS WAS THE MEDICAL BUILDING. THE MEDICAL BUILDING. OKAY. SO IT'S THE ONE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE, IN THE MIDDLE OF THE, THIS ROAD. YEP. OKAY. THANK YOU. SORRY. I WAS OKAY. YEAH, THERE'S NOT A LOT OF, IN THE NECESS AREA WILL BE WITHIN THAT, UH, ADJACENT TO THAT BUILDING WITHIN THE AREA CIRCLE BY THE PARKING, RIGHT? CAITLYN? I THINK IT USED TO BE THE OBGYN'S OFFICE WHEN YOU PULLED IN THERE. UH, YEAH, THAT WAS WHEREBY OB GYN WAS WHEN I HAD MY KIDS UP THAT , SO YEAH. OKAY. WHAT KIND OF FENCE ARE WE TALKING ABOUT FOR THAT? UH, JUST A, A FOUR FOOT HIGH, UH, WHITE FINAL TICKET FENCE. MEGAN, HOW MANY KIDS WOULD YOU HAVE ON AVERAGE? UM, SO WHAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR WITH STATE EDGE, BECAUSE IT'S A 44 10 PROGRAM THROUGH STATE EDUCATION, UM, IS HAVING TWO INTEGRATED CLASSROOMS, UM, WHICH COULD HOLD UP TO 20 IN EACH CLASSROOM. AND THEN THREE, UM, SPECIAL CLASSES, WHICH COULD HOLD IT MOST EIGHT IN EACH CLASS. OKAY. AND THESE ARE PRESCHOOL PROGRAMS? YEAH. THEY'RE SPECIALIZED PRESCHOOL PROGRAM? CORRECT. OKAY. AND WHAT AGE RANGES ARE YOU DOING BIRTH TO 20 OR BIRTH TO LIKE SIX? IT'S ACTUALLY PRIMARILY THREE TO FIVE. OKAY. UM, BUT WE'RE LOOKING AT ALSO DOING AFTERSCHOOL CARE SINCE THERE'S SUCH A BIG NEED FOR OUR SCHOOL AGE GROUPS. SO, SO 20 PLUS THREE EIGHT, UH, STUDENT ROOMS. SO THAT WOULD BE 44. 40 [00:50:01] PLUS 24. 64. 64. YES. AND THEN BUSING, I'M ASSUMING THESE STUDENTS WILL BE ON BUSING. WHAT'S THE PLAN FOR THE BUSING IN THAT AREA? SO BUSING IS CONTRACTED THROUGH ERIE COUNTY. UM, AND SO THAT'S PROVIDED BY, UM, FISHER BUS AND, OR I'M SORRY, FIRST STUDENT FOR ERIE COUNTY. UM, THEY ARE EITHER VANS OR THE SMALL BUSES THAT HAVE LIKE THE THREE POINT HARNESSES RIGHT. FOR THE KIDS. RIGHT. SO WHAT'S THE PLAN THOUGH, TO BRING THE BUSES IN? I'M ASSUMING YOU DON'T WANT THEM LOADING AND UNLOADING ON COMMERCE. RIGHT. SO WHAT'S NICE ABOUT IT IS THAT THERE'S, UM, A ROAD ON EACH SIDE OF THE BUILDING. SO THEY WOULD DRIVE INTO, UH, DRIVE ONTO COMMERCE PLACE. UM, MISS THAT FIRST DRIVEWAY WITH HOWARD ANNA TURNED RIGHT IN FRONT OF BLOOM. MM-HMM . LET THE KIDDOS OFF RIGHT THERE. OUR STAFF COMES OUT TO THEM AND THEN THEY CIRCLE BACK AROUND THE BUILDING TO GO BACK OUT. OKAY. AND THEN HOW MANY STAFF DO YOU ANTICIPATE HAVING? I'M SORRY? HOW MANY STAFF DO YOU ANTICIPATE HAVING AT THE SITE? UM, I, I SHOULD HAVE WRITTEN THIS DOWN, BUT SORRY, WE REALLY THROWING NO, IT'S OKAY. IT'S FINE. . SO IT'S, IT'S HEAVILY STAFFED, UM, RIGHT. YOU KNOW, THERE'S, THERE'S FOUR TEACHERS IN EACH OF THE INTEGRATED ROOMS. SO THAT'S EIGHT. AND THEN THERE'S TWO TEACHERS IN EACH OF THE, UM, CLASSES THAT HAVE EIGHT. AND THEN THERE'S A TEAM OF THERAPISTS, WHICH IS ROUGHLY FOUR. SO LIKE ABOUT 18 TO 20? PROBABLY, YES. OKAY. 18 TO 20 STAFF. AND WHAT'S, WHAT'S THE NUMBER, THE TOTAL NUMBER OF CHILDREN? UH, 6 64. SIX FOUR. THANK YOU. MM-HMM . SO THE PLAY AREA IS 30 FEET BY 45 FEET? YES. OKAY. BECAUSE, BECAUSE WE'VE GOT, UH, SECTION 2 8 0 DASH THREE 15 OF THE HAMBURG TOWN CODE, UH, SUB B UH, FOR NURSERY SCHOOLS AND DAYCARE CENTERS. ADEQUATE OUTDOOR PLACE SPACE SHALL BE PROVIDED BASED ON THE NUMBER OF CHILDREN. THERE SHALL BE A MINIMUM OF 75 SQUARE FEET PER CHILD UNDER THE AGE OF THREE AND A HUNDRED SQUARE FEET PER CHILD. THREE YEARS AND OLDER. UH, NO PLAY AREA OR EQUIPMENT SHALL BE LOCATED IN A FRONT YARD. SO TWO ISSUES WE GOT, UM, NUMBER ONE, MY MATH WOULD SAY THAT, THAT YOU WOULD NEED A 6,400 SQUARE FOOT PLAY AREA AND YOU'VE GOT A 1,350 SQUARE FOOT PLAY AREA. AND, AND IT SAYS, SAYS NO PLAY AREA EQUIPMENT SHALL BE LOCATED IN A FRONT YARD. UM, I GUESS IF IT'S FENCED IN, MAYBE IT'S NOT A FRONT YARD, BUT IS IT IN FRONT OF THE BUILDING? SO, UH, TOWARDS A COMMERCE PLACE? IF I COULD SAY SOMETHING BILL TOO. YEAH. UM, THE PLAN BOARD CAN WAIVE THAT REQUIREMENT OF THE, THE PLACE SPACE. IF MEGAN PROVES TO YOU THAT WHAT SHE'S GIVING YOU IS ADEQUATE, MAYBE BASED ON THE NATURE OF THE CHILDREN THAT SHE'S DEALING WITH. SO THERE'S A COUPLE THINGS THERE TOO. IS THAT, UM, TYPICALLY WITH THOSE OCFS REGULATIONS, UM, WHAT THEY'RE LOOKING FOR IS A GROUP ON THAT PLAYGROUND AT A TIME. SO THE MAXIMUM NUMBER OF CHILDREN ALLOWED ON THAT PLAYGROUND AT A TIME WOULD BE 20. OKAY. SO THAT'S KIND OF WHAT THAT GETS IT CLOSER. THAT'D BE 2000 STILL A LITTLE SHORT. UM, I, I THINK WE DO HAVE A LITTLE, LITTLE ROOM TO MAKE IT L-SHAPED. 'CAUSE THERE IS A LITTLE BIT OF SPACE TO THE ONE SIDE THERE, WHICH WOULD PROBABLY ADD MAYBE ABOUT 16 BY 20 FEET OR SO. YEAH. OUR PLAN HERE IS SHOWING IT L-SHAPED. IS IT GONNA GO IN BOTH DIRECTIONS THEN? NO, NO, BECAUSE THERE'S NOT ENOUGH ROOM ON THE, ON THE, UH, TOWARDS HOWARD HANNAH, BUT THERE IS ENOUGH ROOM TOWARDS, UM, TOWARDS THE, UH, THE PARKING LOT. THAT WOULD BE FOR FOUR BLOOM. JENNIFER, I'LL, I'LL HAVE YOU LOOK AT THIS, BUT I DON'T SEE SAYS THE PLANNING BOARD CAN DETERMINE AN ADEQUATE BUFFER, BUT THERE'S NOTHING IN B THAT SAYS THE PLANNING BOARD HAS THE AUTHORITY TO WAIVE THAT. I'D HAVE TO READ THE ENTIRE PROVISION. I WAS JUST GONNA ASK THAT QUESTION. SOMETIMES IT'S IN THE INTRODUCTORY PARAGRAPH, SO I'D HAVE TO READ THE ENTIRE PROVISION. WHAT SECTION IS THAT? 3 1 5. WELL, DON'T FORGET TOO THAT SHE'S GOT A LOT OF UNIQUE KIDS. THIS ISN'T ALL PRESCHOOL AND SPEECH PATHOLOGY, OCCUPATIONAL THERAPY, PHYSICAL THERAPY, THERAPY. UM, WE'VE INCORPORATED OUR THERAPY BEFORE AS WELL. UM, AND IN ADDITION, WE PROVIDE SPECIALIZED SERVICES TO SENIORS IN THE AREA. UM, AND WE ALSO COLLABORATE WITH SEVERAL DAYCARE CENTERS IN THE AREAS. PROVIDE MUSIC, ROCKS, CURRICULUM AS WELL. SO [00:55:01] YOU SAY MUSIC, UH, MUSIC ROCKS, CURRICULUM. IT'S A SOCIAL EMOTIONAL CURRICULUM FOR PRESCHOOLERS. AND WHAT ABOUT THE OTHER SIDE? COULD YOU PUT A FENCE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE BUILDING AND HAVE TWO PLAY AREAS? IT'S, THERE'S, THERE'S RIGHT THERE IT'S LIKE A NARROW THERE. NARROW. I JUST, AND THE, THE DESIGN I HAD, IT LOOKS ALMOST AT THE SAME SIZE AS THE, UH, AT THE FRONT. SO ONE OF THE THINGS THAT, UM, I HAVE SEEN BEFORE, UM, WITH OTHER OC OS BUILDINGS IS ACTUALLY FENCING AND ALSO PART OF THE CONCRETE AREA. UM, YOU KNOW, WHERE THERE'S SIDEWALKS AND THINGS LIKE THAT. SO THAT WAY THEY HAVE LIKE A LITTLE PATH TO DO THEIR BIKES. RIGHT. THINGS LIKE THAT. SO WE COULD GET CREATIVE WHERE THAT, WHERE THAT FENCE PROBABLY SOMETHING WE WANNA START LOOKING. ALSO COMMERCE IS, COMMERCE IS A DEAD END CURRENTLY. SO I THINK WE WERE, YOU WERE LOOKING AT DOING WALKS DOWN YES. DOWN COMMERCE PLACES. AND IT'S PRETTY FLIGHT TRAFFIC AREA. SO ACTUALLY TECH, YEAH. SO TECHNICALLY LIKE FOR OCS REGULATIONS, UM, IF YOU CAN WALK TO A PLAYGROUND, YOU DON'T NEED A GRASSY AREA FOR THE KIDS TO PLAY THE, I GUESS MY QUESTION FOR JENNIFER TO GO ALONG, WHAT YOU SAID IS, SARAH SAYS THAT YOU WAIVE IT, BUT I GUESS WHAT NEEDS A ZONING VARIANCE VERSUS WHAT NEEDS A WAIVER AND WHAT CAN'T WE DO IS MY QUESTION. ESPECIALLY SINCE THAT WHOLE AREA IS ZONED ADDITIONAL DEVELOPMENT. I'D HAVE TO READ THIS ENTIRE PROVISION OF THE CODE. OKAY. BECAUSE IT DOES SAY THAT WE CAN MAKE APPROPRIATE CONDITIONS TO MINIMIZE ADVERSE EFFECTS, BUT I'D HAVE TO READ THE ENTIRE PROVISION TO SEE RIGHT. THE ENTIRETY WHAT WE'RE ALLOWED TO DO. I THINK WHAT, WHAT I ARE SAYING IS THAT, BUT YOU'RE SAYING DREW'S NOT SAYING ANYTHING. HE'S NOT SAYING ANYTHING. WHAT? YEAH, HE'S, HE, HE, YEAH. UH, WHAT HE'S NOT SAYING, UH, IS THIS, THIS ISN'T A, A TYPICAL NURSERY SCHOOL OR DAYCARE. THEY DO HAVE SPECIALIZED KIDS AND IT IS KIND UNIQUE AND WE JUST KIND OF FEEL LIKE SHE'S GONNA KNOW BETTER THAN WE WILL HOW MUCH PLAYERS SHE NEEDS. THAT'S JUST OKAY. BUT THE CODE DOESN'T MAKE THE EXCEPTIONS FOR THAT CODE SAYS X SQUARE FEET AND THAT'S, WE ONE OF THOSE 20 KIDS, HOW MANY WOULD BE UNDER THREE? HOW MANY WOULD BE, SO NONE OF THEM WILL BE UNDER THREE. RIGHT. UM, AND 20 IS THE MAXIMUM. RIGHT. SO THAT IS MAYBE IN JUNE. UM, LIKE ONE MONTH IN JUNE. TYPICALLY LIKE THIS FALL, WE'RE EXPECT WE'RE EXPECTING 24 ENROLLMENTS. THAT'S IT. BILL, I LIKE TO SUGGESTION. I CAN'T GIVE YOU ADVICE IS TALK TO ROGER. ROGER. WE'RE TRYING TO INTERPRET THIS USE AND WHATEVER IS REALLY NOT A STANDARD DAYCARE NURSE SCHOOL, SOMETHING UNIQUE. SO JUST TALK TO ROGER. I CAN'T GIVE YOU ADVICE. I WAS JUST GONNA SAY ALSO THIS MAY FIT UNDER A DIFFERENT PROVISION OF OUR CODE JUST BASED ON THE DEFINITION OF THIS APPLICATION IS SO WHAT I'M GONNA KEEP THIS. OKAY. UM, SO I GUESS THE PLAN FOR PARKING, IF YOU'VE GOT 20 STAFF AND MULTIPLE BUSES COMING IN, THAT WHOLE PARKING LOT IS NOT JUST THERE SHOWING BE ONE OFF STREET PARKING SPACE FOR EACH FULL-TIME STAFF PERSON AND A MINIMUM OF THREE SPACES FOR PARENTS AND VISITORS. RIGHT. BUT THAT'S THIS PARKING MAP THAT WE'RE SHOWN. WHAT IS THE PLAN? I THINK WE ALSO HAVE TO BE REALISTIC THAT THE BUSES ARE COMING IN. UM, I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE IT SET UP SO THAT, SO SO I'M COUNTED 24 SPOTS. JUST UM, I COUNTED 22 SPOTS, NOT INCLUDING THE HANDICAP SPOTS IMMEDIATELY AROUND THE FACILITY. YEAH. AND I COUNTED THE HANDICAP, SO THAT'S WHY I CAME TO 24TH. BUT THEN WE ALSO NEED TO TAKE INTO ACCOUNT THE BUSES COMING IN AND UNLOADING OF THE KIDS. RIGHT. SO I WOULD, UM, NOTE HAVING BEEN OVER THERE FOR QUEST AND BEEN IN AND OUT OF THAT LOT, IT'S A PRETTY BIG LOT AND THERE'S RARELY VERY MANY PEOPLE PARKED IN IT, EVEN FOR QUEST OR FOR THE REAL ESTATE. SO I THINK BECAUSE YOU COULD USE ANY OF THAT LOT, I THINK THERE'S PROBABLY MORE THAN ADEQUATE PARKING. THAT'S JUST THAT, MY GOD, THAT LOT IS GENERAL. THE OTHER USERS FULLY, FULLY, I DON'T, YEAH, I DON'T HAVE ANY CONCERNS. IT'S JUST I'M MORE THINKING WE NEED TO MAKE SURE WE HAVE THAT COVERED BECAUSE IT'S NO GUARANTEE THAT QUEST WILL FOREVER BE THE TENANT THERE. AND I'VE WORKED AT A FACILITY LIKE THIS BEFORE, SO [01:00:01] I AM ABSOLUTELY AWARE OF WHAT THAT POLICY LOOKS LIKE TOO, OF GETTING THOSE SOMETIMES IMPULSIVE LITTLE ONES THAT ARE WITH YOU FOR VERY SPECIAL REASONS IN AND OUT OF THE BUILDING SAFELY. IT'S A UNIQUE CHALLENGE. SO I THINK WE PROBABLY A WAY TO, TO DO THAT WOULD BE YOU CAN USE THE BUILDING AND MAYBE IF WE COULD HAVE THIS AREA, THE PARKING BLOCK OFF JUST FOR THE DAYCARE CENTER MM-HMM . THAT'S KIND OF WHAT I WAS THINKING. YEAH. SO , RIGHT. THAT'S HONESTLY KIND OF WHAT I WAS THINKING. SO, SO LIKE THIS AREA, IF THERE'S GONNA BE SOME TYPE OF SIGNAGE OR SOMETHING THAT WOULD, WOULD THIS, THIS WOULD BE ENOUGH FOR PARKING SPACES AND THEN THE OTHER AREAS, RIGHT? FOR THE OTHER BUILDINGS AND THAT WOULD, THAT WAY THE STAFF HAS PLENTY OF SPACE TO PARK THE, ANY VISITING THERAPISTS HAVE WAYS TO GET IN AND OUT AND HAVE ACCESSIBILITY TO PARKING FOR THE PARENTS. BUT THEN ALSO YOU HAVE A SAFE WAY TO LOAD AND UNLOAD CHILDREN WITHOUT PEOPLE GETTING FRUSTRATED, NOT ANTICIPATING THAT THEY'RE COMING IN PLUS LOADING OR UNLOADING TIME. RIGHT. THE LITTLE ONES THAT AGE ARE NOT ALWAYS A QUICK LOAD AND UNLOAD. THEY'RE IN THE CAR SEAT. THEN SOME PEOPLE DON'T WANT FULL SIZE BUSES. THEY'RE THE, THEY'RE THE HALF SIZE BUSES OR THEIR HANDS YEAH. COUPLING. ALRIGHT. ONE AT A TIME. UM, YEAH, I THINK COMING, THEY'VE DONE A GOOD JOB WITH BUSING TOO. UM, IN THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS THEY'VE SEEN AN IMPROVEMENT WITH IT. THEY ALWAYS HAVE A DRIVER AND AN ASSISTANT AND WE'RE ALWAYS MEETING THEM RIGHT THERE. AND WE JUST, WE HAVE THE SPACE HERE. WE MIGHT AS WELL THINK AHEAD JUST IN CASE THEY COULD SECTION OFF THE, UH, SPACE RIGHT AT THE DOOR. YEP. THAT'S WHAT I WAS THINKING. BASICALLY JUST PULL THE BUS RIGHT UP TO THE DOOR. JUST ABOUT THE DOOR. RIGHT. IT'S JUST A, YOU EVER GOT SOMEBODY SAY YOU EVER GOT, I DON'T EVEN KNOW IF ZONES THAT LAKE, BUT IF YOU EVER GOT LIKE A TIM PUTS IN THERE, I WOULDN'T WANT THEM TO COME IN AFTER YOU AND NOT, NOT HAVE A PLAN IN PLACE. MM-HMM . TO ACCOMMODATE THE SAFETY OF A DAYCARE CENTER ON YOUR, DOES IT ALLOCATE YOU A SPECIFIC AMOUNT OF PARKING SPACES FOR THAT BUILDING? NO, IT'S ALL SHARED THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE PARKING LOT. UM, IT'S ALL OWNED BY THE SAME, SO IF WE HYPOTHETICALLY PEOPLE GOING TO QUEST IF THEY WANT AND ALL GET TESTED TOMORROW, THEY COULD ACTUALLY INFRINGE ON, ON YOUR PARKING AREA. I DON'T BELIEVE QUEST DOES TESTING, BUT, UH, THEY COULD, UM, THE QUEST IS, IS IN AND OUT. SO THEY'RE, THEY'RE THERE FOR LESS THAN FIVE MINUTES. THEY'RE, THEY'RE THERE. YEP. AND THAT WOULD IMPEDE PEOPLE GETTING INTO YOUR BUILDING, UH, FROM WHERE YOU HAD PARKING SPEED. I'M JUST TRYING TO MAKE THE POINT THAT THERE'S NO GUARANTEE THAT THOSE SPOTS ARE GONNA BE THERE. UH, YOU KNOW, I IT'S WHAT, WHAT IT'S A GOOD LOCATION. SO THIS IS SOMETHING I BROUGHT UP WHILE I WAS NEGOTIATING THE LEASE TOO, IS LIKE, TELL ME ABOUT THE PARKING SPOTS. ARE THERE GONNA BE ENOUGH PARKING SPOTS MM-HMM . YOU KNOW, AND TALK TO THEM ABOUT THE PLAN WITH BUSING. RIGHT. UM, AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THEY BROUGHT UP, UM, AS THE OWNER OF HOWARD HANNAH, HE SAID IT'S A VIRTUAL WORLD. MM-HMM . AND SO YOU'LL SEE ONE OR TWO CARS AT HOWARD, HANNAH, THAT'S IT. THE ONLY TIME THAT THEY HAVE MORE IS IF THEY HAVE A MEETING AND THAT'S ON A SATURDAY AND WE'RE CLOSED ON A SATURDAY. RIGHT. SO IT IS SOMETHING THAT WE CONSIDERED WHEN WE WERE LOOKING AT ALL THIS, BUT, YOU KNOW, HAVE THAT IN, I MEAN, IT'S LIKE CONTRACTORS TELL PEOPLE, OH, THEY'RE NOT GONNA BUILD ANYTHING OVER THERE AND THEN FIVE YEARS LATER THEY'RE BUILDING IT. SO HE'S TELLING YOU THAT YOU GOT ALL THESE PARKING SPACES, BUT THERE'S NOTHING IN WRITING IN YOUR LEASE. CORRECT. I'D HAVE TO LOOK O OVER IT AGAIN. OKAY. IF, IF AS PART OF OUR PROCESS WE WANTED SOME OF THE LINES REPAINTED IN THE PARKING LOT OR MOVED, IS THAT SOMETHING THAT COULD HAPPEN? IS, OR WOULD THAT BE NOT IN THE LEASE OR? SO THE, MY LANDLORD IS MORE WHITEHEAD MM-HMM . AND HE HAS BEEN SUPER AWESOME TO WORK WITH. OKAY. UM, HE REALLY WANTS SUCCESS FOR US. AND, UM, SO ANYTHING THAT WE'VE REALLY TALKED TO HIM ABOUT, HE'S BEEN REALLY GREAT ABOUT. SO I WOULD NOT OKAY. IMAGINE BECAUSE THERE, THERE MAY BE SOMETHING LIKE THAT THAT COMES OUT OF THAT, THIS PROCESS. YEAH. UM, I, I MEAN, I WOULD SAY I COULD PUT LIKE A 99% THAT MERL WOULD BE AGREEABLE TO MAKING THIS WORK. SO HE WANTS IT, HE WANT, HE WANTS US TO BE SUCCESSFUL. [01:05:01] IS THE STAFF THE STAFF? ARE YOU LIKE CERTIFIED TO STAY OR SOME KIND OF CERTIFICATION? YES. YES. SO, UM, WE'RE A 44 TON AGENCY AND ALL OF OUR STAFF HAVE, MOST OF 'EM HAVE MASTER'S DEGREES AND CERTIFIED THERAPISTS AND TEACHERS. OKAY. THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. SO I GUESS WHAT, WHAT WE'RE GONNA DO IS WE'RE GONNA WORK ON THE PROVISIONS OF THE TOWN LAW THAT WE THINK MAY OR MAY NOT APPLY. IF YOU COULD, UH, MAYBE COME BACK WITH SOME CREATIVE IDEAS ON HOW TO MAKE THE PLAY AREA BIGGER OR HAVE MORE PLAY AREA. UH, SO IF, IF THAT LAW TOWN LAW IS THE ONE WE SETTLE ON, IT COMES CLOSER TO MEETING THOSE REQUIREMENTS. UM, I THINK THAT WE'RE, WE'D BE IN A PLACE WHERE WE CAN KIND OF KEEP TALKING ABOUT IT MOVE FORWARD. SO I GUESS I JUST HAVE A QUESTION. OKAY. UM, SO THE REASON WHY THE PLAY YARD WAS SHRUNK BACK WAS BECAUSE IT'S TOWN PROPERTY, RIGHT? UH, IT'S A RIGHT OF WAY FOR NATIONAL FUEL AND NATIONAL GRID, I BELIEVE. YEAH, I CAN SEE IT HERE ON THE AERIAL MAP. OKAY. OKAY. UTILITIES STICKING OUT OF THE GROUND. OKAY. RIGHT. YEAH. OKAY. SO, AND, AND, AND AS FAR AS EXPANDING IT IN THAT DIRECTION, THE TOWN CODE ALSO SAYS THE PLAY AREA CAN'T BE IN THE FRONT YARD. SO THE FARTHER YOU GO CLOSER TO COMMERCE, THE MORE IT'S IN THE FRONT YARD. YEP. SO THAT WOULD BE YOU, YOU KNOW, YOU, IF YOU, YOU MEET ONE PROVISION OF THE LAW AND YOU START VIOLATING ANOTHER ONE. SO, UM, SO IS IT POSSIBLE, SO THAT'S ONE BIG PARCEL THAT HAS ALL THREE BUILDINGS ON IT. IS IT POSSIBLE TO MOVE, LIKE COMMERCE IS THE FRONT YARD, IS IT POSSIBLE TO, THERE'S LIKE A BIG GRASS AREA IT LOOKS LIKE ON THE ZONING MAP, UM, FORT, UH, CAMP ROAD THERE, , THE REALTY IS, CAN YOU, IS IT POSSIBLE TO PUT SOMETHING ACROSS THE PARKING LOT OR IS THAT A SAFETY ISSUE, GETTING KIDS OVER THERE AND ACCESSIBILITY OR TO PUT A SECOND AREA IN PLAY AREA OVER THERE? I, I WOULD SAY THAT IT'S NOT OPTIMAL. UM, I, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'RE, YOU'RE THEN CLOSER TO CAMP ROAD TOO, WHICH IS SO MUCH MORE BUSY. WELL, I THINK I WOULD, THERE'S THERE'S TREES ON THE OTHER SIDE OF COMMERCE, SO, AND I, AND I BELIEVE THAT WE'RE ON THAT PROPERTY AS WELL. SO THAT'S, I WAS, IT WOULD BE LIKE BIKE GRINDING AREA. RIGHT, RIGHT. YOU, YOU SAID EARLIER, MAYBE SOMETHING THAT WASN'T GRASS, BUT ADDED AN AREA FOR BIKES AND THINGS. UM, YOU KNOW, THAT THAT MAY BE ENOUGH. YES. I MEAN, COULD, SO LET'S, I MEAN, WE'LL OKAY. WORK ON IT. WE'LL SEE WHAT HAPPENS. RIGHT. WOULD YOU BE COMFORTABLE SETTING A PUBLIC HEARING? I MEAN, IT'S NOT GOING, YOU HAVE TO DO IT ONE, ONE WAY OR THE OTHER. I MEAN, IT'S THE USE. THE USE IS WHAT IT IS. RIGHT. YOU KNOW, I, I THINK WE OUGHT TO WAIT TILL WE FIND OUT WHETHER IT'S IN CODE BEFORE WE, UH, SCHEDULE A, A PUBLIC HEARING. I DID LIKE I TO, YOU KNOW, GO TO THE PUBLIC HEARING AND THEN FIND OUT THEY DON'T NEED CODE. WELL, WE'RE PUTTING A HORSE BEFORE THE COUNTER. WELL, HOW, WHEN ARE YOU HOPING TO HAVE THIS OPEN BACK? WE WERE HOPING FOR SEPTEMBER. WELL, FIRST WE WERE HOPING FOR JULY . UM, BUT NOW WE'RE GONNA PUSH IT TO SEPTEMBER 8TH IS START SCHOOL. RIGHT. OKAY. AND I THINK THEY'RE GONNA WORK ON ENLARGING THE AREA. UM, OKAY. OKAY. UM, ALL RIGHT. I, I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, DENNIS. UH, BUT THEY CAN'T, THEY WON'T GET APPROVALS UNLESS WE WORK THAT OUT ANYWAY. SO I'M GONNA MAKE A MOTION TO SCHEDULE A PUBLIC HEARING ON BLOOM CREATIVE ARTS FOR JUNE 2ND. SECOND. MOTION BY MR. CLARK. SECOND BY MR. SHAW. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. AYE. AYE. OKAY. MOTION CARRIED. OPPOSED? ANY OPPOSED? OKAY. AYE. DID I VOTE? I DIDN'T HEAR AL VOTE. DID YOU VOTE AL A THUMBS UP? MUTED? YES. YES. FOR, UH, A PUBLIC HEARING OR YES. FOR NOT PUBLIC HEARING. PUBLIC HEARING. OKAY. THANK YOU. OKAY, SO MOTION CARRIED. AND WE'LL HAVE A PUBLIC HEARING [01:10:01] ON JUNE 2ND ON THE SPECIAL USE PERMIT. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. AND THEN, UH, BILL, IF SO, JENNIFER'S GONNA REVIEW THE CODE AND FIND OUT THE APPLICABILITY. AND THEN IS SOMEONE GONNA FOLLOW UP WITH, UH, ROGER? I WILL CALL ROGER. 'CAUSE I ACTUALLY HAVE ANOTHER THOUGHT. I'LL CALL ROGER. THANKS JOHN. OKAY. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. OKAY. SO WE'LL SEE YOU IN TWO WEEKS. THANK YOU. ALRIGHT, FINAL, FINAL ITEM ON THE WORK SESSION IS WJ MILLIGAN REQUESTING SPECIAL USE PERMIT AND SITE PLAN APPROVAL TO ALLOW FOUNDERS HOLDING COMPANY TO USE A PORTION OF THE BUILDING LOCATED AT 4 7 5 1 SOUTHWESTERN BOULEVARD FOR ITS OFFICES AND LIMITED FLEET WORK. SO OUR BIGGEST QUESTION'S GONNA BE WHAT IS LIMITED FLEET WORK? UH, WE'RE TALKING, UH, WASHING VEHICLES, OIL CHANGES, CHANGING TIRES ON VEHICLES. HOW MANY VEHICLES? UM, WELL AGAIN, IT'S GOING TO BE JUST FOR THEIR SMALLER VEHICLE FLEET. ALL THEIR MAJOR WORK IS DONE ON ROUTE FIVE AND IN BUFFALO. SO THEY'RE LIKE REGULAR SIZED CARS AND TRUCKS? CORRECT. NOT SEMIS. OKAY. TYPE VEHICLES. AND ALSO, I MEAN, THIS BUILDING HAS BEEN OWNED BY MY DAD FOR THE PAST 30 SOME YEARS. AND WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE LAST THREE YEARS, MY DAD AND MYSELF OWNING JM PRODUCTION. WE PROMOTE MOTOR SPORTS EVENTS. SO I MEAN, WE, WE'VE HAD AT THIS LOCATION, MONSTER TRUCKS, BUSES, BIG AND SMALL DEMOLITION DERBY CARS, FIGURE EIGHT CARS. WE'RE IN THE MOTOR SPORTS BUSINESS. UM, AND WE HAPPEN TO HAVE THE SHOW HERE AT THE RE COUNTY FAIR. BUT ON THIS PREMISES, WE'VE ALWAYS DONE THIS TYPE OF THING. ANYWAYS, UM, IN THE PAST, THE BUILDING THAT THEY'RE INTERESTED IN RENTING HAS BEEN EMPTY FOR THE LAST THREE YEARS. UM, DUE TO THE TRUST, UNFORTUNATELY, JAY IN PRODUCTION'S MOVED TO ANOTHER PLACE IN HAMBURG, BUT IT HAS WASH PHASE INSIDE AND DRAIN PROPER, PROPER DRAINAGE. IT HAS WASH BASINS ALREADY. OKAY. YEAH. PROPER DRAINAGE IN TWO OF THE GARAGE DOORS. AND WE'RE TALKING ROUGHLY AROUND 6,700 SQUARE FEET OF RENTAL SPACE AGAIN, THAT WE'VE BEEN TRYING TO RENT OUT FOR THE PAST THREE YEARS. FOR OIL STORAGE. PARDON? WHAT ARE YOU GONNA USE IT FOR? OR WHAT DO YOU OIL STORAGE. WHAT, WHAT ARE YOU USING TO STORE OIL? HOW DID YOU SEARCH? THE OIL STORAGE. THE OIL. OIL STORAGE. OIL STORAGE. STORED IN 55 GALLON DRUMS OR, UH, TANKS, WHICH AGAIN, WE DID, WE HAD OIL DRUMS THAT WERE LOCATED IN THE BACK OF THE BUILDING AGAINST THE BACK SIDE OF THE BUILDING. SO THROUGH, OR SARAH, THIS SITE ISN'T ZONED FOR SOME OF THESE AUTOMOBILE USAGES, BUT HE'S SAYING IT'S BEEN USED FOR THAT FOR A VERY LONG TIME ALREADY. IT, IT'S ZONE C ONE AND ZONE C TWO. IT ZONE C ONE. AND WHAT HE'S ASKING, WHAT HE SAYS THEY'RE GONNA DO IN THERE IS NOT AUTOMOTIVE REPAIR, IT'S SERVICING. CORRECT. CHANGING TIRES, CHANGING OIL. THE AUTOMOTIVE SERVICE, THE SERVICE ON THAT, BOTH VEHICLES, RIGHT. ACCORDING TO JAY IS DONE AT THE FEDEX FACILITY. AND THESE ARE JUST FEDEX VEHICLES. OBVIOUSLY THIS ISN'T OPEN TO THE PUBLIC, IT'S JUST FEDEX SERVICE VEHICLES. SO HOW DOES THIS USE FIT IN THE CURRENT, IN THE C ONE ZONE? WELL, WE'RE THINKING IT DOESN'T NEED A SPECIALIST. WELL, YEAH. ROGER AND I TALKED ABOUT THIS TODAY. JUST WHAT I CAN TALK ON, ROGER AND I TALKED ON THIS TODAY AT LENGTH, OBVIOUSLY THE SITE HAS, DOES HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF A HISTORY. THERE WAS BATTLES OVER THE EXTENT OF CARS AND TRUCKS AND WHATEVER THAT ARE ON THE SITE. 'CAUSE TECHNICALLY THE SITE DOES NOT ALLOW AUTOMOTIVE TYPE USES. THE C ONES OWN. THERE'S NOTHING IN THE C ONES ZONE. AND ALLOW AUTOMOTIVE USES, IF THIS IS A LOGISTICS COMPANY THAT DOES MINOR AND PART OF THIS APPROVAL WAS BE MINOR, VERY MINOR THAT YOU'RE NOT STORING 50, 60 VEHICLES THERE AND, AND DOING ALL THIS STUFF. THAT'S NOT, AND THE TERRIBLE [01:15:01] THING IS, I UNDERSTAND WHAT'S HAPPENED THERE TO THE ONE SIDE OF IT, YOU HAVE THE DOT FACILITY THAT HAS TRUCKS AND STUFF ALL OVER IT. THE OTHER SIDE OF IT IS, IS THE GARDEN CENTER, WHICH GOT A SPECIAL USE PERMIT THAT HAVE OUTDOOR USES IN IT. I MEAN, YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO SEE ONE. IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE SMALL STRUCTURES THAT ARE NOT THOSE TYPE OF THINGS. SO ROGER AND I SAID, IF YOU'RE GOING TO, WE CAN'T GIVE A SPECIAL USE PERMIT BECAUSE IT'S NOT ALLOWED IN THE, IN THE C ONE ZONE. SO THE ONLY THING THIS BOARD COULD DO IS THROUGH SITE PLAN APPROVAL, APPROVE A LOGISTIC COMPANY WITH MINOR TYPE ACCESSORY THINGS DONE. IT HAD TO BE SOME RESTRICTIONS PUT ON IT THAT IT DOESN'T TURN INTO LARGE SCALE TRUCK REPAIR AND, AND, AND HAVING TRUCKS PARKED ALL OVER THE PROPERTY. IT'S NOT THE PURPOSE OF THE C ONE BILL. AND HOW DOES THE CONCEPT OF EXISTING USAGE FIT INTO THE DECISION WE'D HAVE TO MAKE ON THIS? BECAUSE AS HE SAID, THERE'S ALREADY, UH, DRAINAGE, I CAN'T REMEMBER WHAT EXACTLY YOU SAID, BUT THERE, THERE'S ALREADY LIKE AN INFRASTRUCTURE FOR WASHING THE CARS IN THEIR, IF ROGER WAS GONNA LOOK INTO THAT, OBVIOUSLY. OKAY. IF THE USE IS DISCONTINUED MORE THAN A YEAR, IT'S NOT A NON-CONFORMING USE OF RECORD. AND PLUS IF IT'S A NON-CONFORMING USE THAT HAS HAD A HISTORY, IF YOU PULL THE FILE OUT OF BATTLES OVER HAVING AUTOMOTIVE TYPE USES ON THE PROPERTY, THAT TRIAL ALLOWED THEN THAT. SO ROGER'S TRYING TO WORK OUT, OBVIOUSLY WE WANNA SEE, WE WANNA SEE THIS BUILDING OCCUPIED IN A BUSINESS IN THERE. SO WE ALSO HAVE TO BE CAREFUL NOT OPEN UP PANDORA'S BOX HERE THAT WHAT IS ALLOWED TO NOT ALLOWED IN A C ONE ZONING DISTRICT. IT'S VERY, I MEAN, READ THE C ONES ZONING DISTRICT, IT'S VERY RESTRICTIVE ABOUT WHAT YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO HAVE IN A C ONE ZERO. SO WE HAVE, WE'RE GONNA PROVE SOMETHING AND IT'S GONNA HAVE HAVE CONDITIONS OF, OF, YOU KNOW, THAT THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT CAN ENFORCE. AND WE DON'T GET INTO A BATCH OVER THE YEARS OF THE AMOUNT OF REPAIR AND STUFF DONE ON THE, ON, ON THE SITE WITH TRUCKS AND VEHICLES. SO, TOWN WANTS TO WORK. I, I'M PARAPHRASING, AL WANTS TO WORK TO GET SOMEBODY IN THIS BUILDING, BUT WE HAVE TO BE, IF WE'RE GONNA PROVE THIS, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO BE FAIRLY CREATIVE WITH THE CONDITIONS ATTACHED TO IT. CAN YOU GIVE THEM A LIST OF THE THINGS THAT WOULD BE DONE TO THE TRUCKS IN THE BUILDING? YES. AND ARE ALL THE TRUCKS INSIDE OR ARE THEY GONNA BE PARKED OUTSIDE? UM, WE OWN QUITE A LARGE AREA IN THE BACK OF THE BUILDING. SO THERE WOULD BE SOME TRUCKS PARKED BACK THERE. I SAY THIS MANY TRUCKS AND WHATEVER. THAT DOESN'T GET INTO, YOU KNOW, SO. RIGHT. SO, SO WE WANNA GO AGAIN. YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO WORK WITH ROGER AND WORK OUT SOMETHING THAT IS WORKABLE. RIGHT. HOW MANY VEHICLES, WHAT'S GONNA BE DONE WITH THEM? AND IF YOU COULD GET IT IN A WRITTEN LIST SO WE CAN KIND OF REFER TO IT, NOT JUST TELLING US THE, THE THING THAT YOU GAVE US DOES, DOES, DOES SAY WHAT THEY DO ON THE TRUCKS, RIGHT? IT SAYS CHANGE THE OIL, CHANGE TIRES AND WASH THE VEHICLE. RIGHT, RIGHT. DOESN'T IT SAY THAT IN HIS, UH, YEAH, I THINK BILL'S LOOKING FOR LIKE THE NUMBER OF TRUCKS THAT WOULD COME ON AND OFF THE PROPERTY IN THE DAY. HOW MANY TRUCKS MAYBE PARKED THERE OVERNIGHT OR PARKED IN THE LOCKS? RIGHT. HOW MANY OVERNIGHT EXACTLY WILL YOU BE, WILL YOU BE INSPECTING? I'M GONNA SAY THERE WOULD BE NO MORE THAN 20 VEHICLES, WHETHER THEY'RE INSIDE THE BUILDING OR PARKED OUT BACK. BECAUSE IF THIS TURNS INTO SOMETHING THAT WE CAN WORK WITH, WE'RE GONNA DO CONDITIONS. AND IF WE, AND IF ONE OF THOSE CONDITIONS IS BASED ON WHAT YOU SAID, NO MORE THAN 20 VEHICLES, THEN THAT'S GONNA BE THE CONDITION. IF THERE'S 21 VEHICLES, SOMEBODY CALL THE COPS AND HAVE YOU FINE. SO, UM, DOES THE BOARD CARE HOW MANY VEHICLE ARE INSIDE OR IS IT, IS IT MORE ABOUT HOW MANY OR OUTSIDE OR BOTH. BUT IT USUALLY WE CARE MORE ABOUT OUTSIDE. BUT LET'S JUST GET AN ENTIRE LIST OF WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN. SO WE KNOW. 'CAUSE 'CAUSE THERE, THERE'S THE NON-CONFORMING USE ISSUES, RIGHT? THERE'S THE ZONING ISSUES. I THINK THE, THE MORE COMPREHENSIVE LIST OF WHAT YOU WANT TO DO WILL HELP US FIGURE OUT FIRST IF IT CAN EVEN FIT THERE OR NOT. AND THEN IF IT DOES, IF WE THINK IT DOES FIT HOW WE CREATE CONDITIONS TO MAKE IT SO IT DOESN'T TURN INTO SOMETHING THAT DOESN'T FIT. DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? YES. OKAY. WOULD YOU BE INSPECTING THESE VEHICLES AFTER MAINTENANCE? ARE YOU, ARE YOU GONNA BE A CERTIFIED INSPECTOR? I WON'T. YOU WON'T? OKAY. NO, YOUR FACILITY WON'T SEPARATE COMPANY. OKAY. WHAT I DO. OKAY. THIS IS THE, OKAY, I'M JUST CURIOUS. I'M JUST ONE OF THE TRUSTEES THAT HANDLED THE BUILDING FOR MY DESK. NO, HE'S, HE OWNS BUILDING SOMEBODY ELSE DO ALL THIS COMMERCIAL. HE'S NOT REPAIR. I DON'T KNOW IF THEY'RE AN INSPECTION COMPANY OR NOT. I REALLY DON'T BECAUSE I BET YOU I I WOULD BET RESIDENTIAL HAS SOMETHING SIMILAR, RIGHT? RIGHT. BUT IF I WANT TO CHANGE THE OIL IN MY [01:20:01] DRIVEWAY, I COULD CHANGE THE OIL, MY OIL IN MY DRIVEWAY. SO THAT'S NOT A BUSINESS. RIGHT? RIGHT. SO IT'S, IT'S, IT'S, AND WORK WITH ROGER, LIKE I SAID, WHATEVER YOU GUYS DO, WE WANNA WORK WITH THE CODE ENFORCEMENT OFFICER. OFFICER. RIGHT. BECAUSE, BECAUSE IF WE DO CONDITIONS, THEY HAVE TO ENFORCE THEM AND RIGHT. AND ALSO THE INTERPRETATION THAT, THAT WE'RE NOT, YOU KNOW, ONCE YOU SAY, OKAY, THIS IS THEN THE NEXT PERSON THAT COMES ALONG IS THAT THE, WHAT IS THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETATION OF WHY THIS MEETS RIGHT. IS IN THIS DISTRICT AND THEY'RE USING IT FOR OFFICES AS WELL, RIGHT? THE OFFICES I THINK NOBODY'S GONNA HAVE A PROBLEM WITH. I MEAN, I DON'T WANNA SPEAK FOR EVERYBODY ELSE ON THE BOARD. I THINK THAT'S, THAT THAT'S A, OKAY, WELL THE OFFICE WOULD PROBABLY FIT INTO THE C ONE ZONE, RIGHT? THAT'S NOT THE ISSUE. YEAH. SO IT'S, IT'S THE, IT'S GONNA BE THE AUTOMOTIVE USES. UM, AND BY THE WAY, THE OTHER OPTION IS, AND AND ROGER SAID, I MEAN IF WE CAN'T WORK SOMETHING OUT, THE OTHER OPTION IS, THIS IS A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF A USE EXPERIENCE. IT'S A BUILDING THAT'S BEEN ON OCCUPIED FOR THREE YEARS. IT CAN'T GET USES THE, THE TYPE OF TYPE OF, OF BUILDING THAT'S THERE WITH ALL THE MATERIALS. IT'S OBVIOUSLY FOR THIS TYPE OF USE, THERE'S REALLY NO OTHER REASONABLE USE THAT CAN BE DONE. SO THAT IS ANOTHER OPTION THAT YOU COULD, RIGHT. THAT IT COULD BE A USE FOR. BUT LET'S DO THIS QUICKLY. WORK IT OUT. RIGHT. THERE'S JUST NOT A LOT OF COMPANIES OUT THERE. NUMBER ONE, THEY EVEN WANT TO RENT 6,700 SQUARE FOOT OF BUILDING SPACE. MOST OF 'EM CAN GO OUT AND BUY THEIR OWN BUILDING AND PAY THE RIGHT. I MEAN, USED VARIANCE MAY BE THE WAY TO GO. A USED VARIANCE MAY BE THE WAY TO GO. YOU HAVE TO GO IN FRONT OF THE ZONING BOARD. BUT IF RIGHT NEXT DOOR IS THE COUNTY HIGHWAY DEPARTMENT, RIGHT? YEAH. THE D STATE, STATE HIGHWAY DEPARTMENT. YEAH. SO ONCE HE'S SHOWN THE HISTORY, REMEMBER THE CRITERIA FOR USE SCREENS ARE THAT YOU CAN'T GET A REASONABLE RETURN. YOU TRY TO, THERE'S SOMETHING UNIQUE ABOUT THE PROPERTY THE BUILDING IS DESIGNED TO HAVE FOR THESE PROCESS AND REPAIR DONE IN IT. SO IT COULD BE THE PERFECT TO GET A USED CAR FOR IT INSTEAD OF TRYING, I MEAN, I MEAN IT ALSO HAD PROBABLY 12 ANTIQUE CARS LOCATED IN THE MIDDLE OF IT, MIDDLE OF THE BUILDING. UM, WHICH WE WERE, YOU KNOW, ALWAYS WORKING OUT. AND, AND THE GOOD PART ABOUT THIS, WHEN YOU GO FOR A USE RENT, IT'S, THE BIGGEST ISSUE IS ALWAYS JENNIFER KNOWS IF A NEIGHBOR OPPOSES IT, HEY, I THIS IS GONNA HURT THE CAR. I DON'T THINK ANYBODY'S GONNA OPPOSE WHAT YOU'RE DOING THERE. OR THERE'S NOT A NEIGHBOR. I DON'T THINK THE, THE DOT FACILITY'S GONNA COMPLAIN. I DON'T THINK, YOU KNOW, I CAN'T SAY, BUT I DON'T THINK THE, UH, THEY'VE GOT THE LANDSCAPE BUSINESS IS GONNA, THAT MIGHT BE THE WAY TO SOLVE A LOT OF THE PROBLEMS BECAUSE IF YOU GET A USE VARIANCE, THEN THE ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS WOULD BE SAYING THAT THIS USE THAT YOU'RE ASKING FOR IS OKAY THERE. AND THEN WE DON'T HAVE, WE DON'T HAVE TO, WE DON'T HAVE A A SAY IN THE USE. WE DON'T HAVE TO PUT RECONDITIONS ON IT. YOU COULD HAVE AS MANY TRUCKS AS YOU WANT. YOU COULD DO ALL THE THINGS ON THE PROPERTY THAT YOU WANTED TO DO. SO, SORRY, JUST TO INTERCEDE, ISN'T THERE A CHIROPRACTIC BUILDING BETWEEN WHERE THIS IS AND THE, THE COUNTY HIGHWAY PLOT? I DON'T KNOW. YES. IN BETWEEN LITTLE JMS BUILDING THERE IS A DOCTOR'S OFFICE AND THEN THE, UM, NEW YORK STATE DEPARTMENT. AND DREW, YOU SAID THERE'S BEEN BATTLES OVER THESE USAGES OVER THE YEARS WHO HAS BEEN THE OTHER SIDE OF THE BATTLE? 'CAUSE THAT PERSON MIGHT, IT'S NOT OPPOSE USE VARIANCE. IT'S THIS LITTLE OFFICE BUILDING UP HERE. BUT MOST OF THE SITE BUFFERS THE THING, BUT NO, I DON'T KNOW HOW THE ISSUES, I DON'T KNOW IF IT WAS COMPLAINTS OR JUST THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT GOING OUT THERE. SO ROGER WAS GONNA PULL THE FILE ON IT. BUT LIKE I SAID, THAT IS, I THINK WE DON'T USUALLY RECOMMEND USE VARIANCES, BUT IT MEETS A LOT OF THE CRITERIA, WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, VACANCY, LONG-TERM VACANCY, UM, UNIQUENESS OF THE BUILDING. WHAT IT HAS TO BE UNIQUE. IT'S CAN'T APPLY TO ALL THE OTHER PROPERTIES. THIS HAS A UNIQUE BUILDING TO IT. THIS IS THE EXAMPLE I USED WHEN I, WHEN I TEACH THIS STUFF, IS THAT YOU HAVE SOME BUILDING WITH SOME UNIQUE CONDITION THAT WOULD MAKE SENSE. I CAN'T, I'M NOT ASKING TO TEAR THE BUILDING DOWN AND START ALL OVER AGAIN BECAUSE THIS IS NOT THE TYPE OF BUILDING THAT CAN GO THERE. THERE WAS AN ISSUE ONE TIME. WE ALSO RAN A HAUNTED HOUSE. WE HAD 13 SEMI TRAILERS PARKED THERE FOR 13 YEARS FILLED WITH HAUNTED HOUSE EQUIPMENT. SO THERE WERE SOME COMPLAINTS ABOUT THAT. AND WE ENDED UP MOVING THEM TO, UM, BLAZE OUT AREA. BUT AGAIN, THEY WERE THERE FOR 13 YEARS. BUT SOMEONE COMPLAINED ABOUT, BUT I MEAN THE ZVA WILL PROBABLY DISAGREE, BUT FOR US THE USE VARIANCE WOULD GREATLY SIMPLIFY THE PROCESS THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT HERE. SO, SO WHAT I WOULD RECOMMEND IS WE CAN, UM, WHEN'S THE CODE OFF FOR THE ZVA IS? WE MISS THE CODE OFF FOR JUNE. FOR JUNE. [01:25:01] I GOT A QUESTION. YEAH. MM-HMM . EVERYBODY'S TALKING ABOUT AUTOMOTIVE WORK YOU CAN'T DO IN C ONE. MM-HMM . HE'S NOT STARTING A BUSINESS DOING AUTOMOTIVE WORK. THIS, THIS IS NOT THIS. IT'S JUST LIKE, I CAN GO AND CHANGE MY OIL, WASH MY CAR HOME. RIGHT? THAT'S TWO CAR, THREE CARS. IT DOESN'T MATTER. THAT'S KIND OF LIKE WHAT THEY'RE DOING. 'CAUSE THEY AREN'T, THEY AREN'T OPENING UP FOR THE PUBLIC OR ANYBODY ELSE TO COME IN TO DO IT. THEY'RE, THEY'RE DOING THEIR OWN STUFF. SO, SO, SO I JUST KIND OF WONDERING THOUGH, HOW DOES THAT GO WITH RELATIVE TO, UH, THERE IS NO, I THINK THAT'S WHY WE CAN ACTUALLY CONSIDER IT BECAUSE IT'S ONLY HIS OWN THINGS. HE'S NOT DOING IT FOR ANYBODY ELSE. IF HE WAS DOING IT FOR ANYBODY ELSE, WE'D HAVE TO SAY NO. YEAH, THAT'S WHAT I MEAN. SO, SO SINCE HE'S DOING IT FOR HIMSELF, WE CAN CONSIDER IT. BUT THERE'S STILL, BUT YOU STILL HAVE CONTROLS OVER IT, RIGHT? THERE'S STILL THE ISSUES AND THE, AND THE ISSUES WOULD BE THE DIFFERENT, UH, CONDITIONS. SO YOU COULD ACTUALLY TELL ME, I CAN'T WASH MY CAR AND CHANGE MY OIL AT MY HOUSE. WELL, WE'D SAY THAT YOU CAN'T WASH CHANGE OIL ON FIVE CARS A DAY. NO, THERE'S NOT SAY IT DOESN'T SAY THAT. BUT IF YOU STARTED DOING THAT, PEOPLE WOULD START COMPLAINING IT. BUT YOU KNOW WHAT, I'M, I KNOW EXACTLY WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ELSE COMES UP. I MEAN, IT, I SEE ONE THING. IF IT WAS THIS JOB AND THEY'RE GETTING PEOPLE COMING IN CHANGING OILS, AND THAT'S ONE THING, IT'S JUST THEIR VEHICLES INSIDE THE BUILDING, RIGHT? I, I THINK IF, YEAH, I THINK BEING THAT IT'S THEIR OWN VEHICLES MAKES IT SO WE'D ACT, WE'LL ACTUALLY TALK ABOUT IT AND MAYBE TRY AND WORK SOMETHING OUT IF IT WAS OH, SO YOU'RE STILL INVESTIGATING. OKAY. SO IF THERE'S A WAY THAT WE CAN WORK THIS OUT, WHETHER IT'S TALKING TO ROGER OR WHOEVER TO GET A LIMIT ON THE NUMBER OF VEHICLES AND EXACTLY WHAT THEY'RE DOING, UM, THAT'S WHAT WE WOULD LIKE TO DO. ONLY BECAUSE I THINK THERE'S STRONG CHANCE THAT THEY'RE GONNA MOVE ON AND LOOK FOR SOMETHING ELSE. SO WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THE, THE, UH, USE VARIANCE? WELL, BEFORE WE DO THAT, THESE, THESE ARE YOUR TRUCKS, BUT YOU DON'T KNOW HOW MANY YOU HAVE. THEY'RE NOT HIS TRUCKS, THEY'RE THE TRUCKS THAT, WELL HE, THE TRUCKS HAVE BELONGED TO FEDEX. SO I'M SURE THAT IF WE PUT A LIMIT ON HOW MANY CAN BE THERE AT A TIME, IF THEY'RE ONLY DOING MINOR, UM, SERVICING TO 'EM, THEY REALLY SHOULDN'T BE THERE THAT LONG. YOU KNOW, WHY ARE THEY, DON'T THEY HAVE SPACE WHERE THEY AREN'T? APPARENTLY NOT. THAT'S WHERE THEY DO ALL THEIR MAJOR REPAIR WORK TO ALL THE, MAINLY THE SEMIS, THE TRAILERS. SORRY, SORRY, DENNIS. CAN YOU REPEAT THAT? YEAH. DOUG MADE IT SEEM AS THOUGH HE WAS WASHING HIS VEHICLES, THE HOLDING COMPANY. IT IS NOT HIS, IT IS FEDEX AND THAT HE'S GONNA BE, UH, SERVICING. RIGHT. BUT FEDEX WOULD BE THE ONE LEASING THE COMPANY AND THEY'D BE DOING THEIR OWN VEHICLES. RIGHT. THAT'S WHAT, THAT'S THE POINT I WANTED TO MAKE. THEY'RE NOT, UH, FROM, UH, FOUNDER'S HOLDING. NO, BUT I, I DON'T THINK THERE'S A DIFFERENCE. AND I MEAN, IT'S THE PERSON THAT CONTROLS THE PROPERTY THAT ALSO CONTROLS THE VEHICLES. BILL KEITH, I KNOW WE HAVE A, WHAT I WOULD DO IS PUT THIS ON THE AGENDA FOR TWO WEEKS FROM TONIGHT. YEAH. YOU COULD EVEN CALL A PUBLIC HEARING ON IT. IN THE MEANTIME, TALK TO ROGER. THAT WAY WE CAN KEEP IT MOVING FORWARD AND KEEPING IS, I MEAN, CALL THE PUBLIC HEARING. THERE'S A LOT OF QUESTIONS. THERE'S REALLY NOT A SITE PLAN. WE'RE JUST REOCCUPYING THE BUILDING. BUT IT IS, WELL, WHEN I THINK WE GOTTA TALK TO ROGER AND MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE ALL ON THE SAME PAGE AND RIGHT. WHEN WOULD, IF, IF HE WAS GONNA GO THE ROUTE OF A USE VARIANCE, WHEN WOULD THAT BE IN FRONT OF THE ZONING BOARD? JULY 7TH. JULY 7TH. SO YOU HAVE TWO MEETINGS AFTER TONIGHT. BEFORE THAT. WOW. WE CAN'T, WE CAN'T GET ON THE JUNE . NO. AND RIGHT NOW, I MEAN THEY'RE WILLING TO, THEY WANT ME TO SEND THEM A CONTRACT NOW AND THEY WANT TO BE IN THERE JUNE 2ND. THAT'S WHAT THEY WERE PLANNING ON. SO THAT'S WHY I JUST HAVEN'T . YEAH, THIS IS JUST A WORK SESSION. WE CAN'T DO A RESOLUTION. NO, I UNDERSTAND THAT. ESPECIALLY A RESOLUTION OF CONDITIONS. NO, BUT IF WE CAME BACK, WE HAD A PLANNING MEETING ON JUNE 2ND. YOU MIGHT AS WELL BECAUSE THE CUTOFF FOR JULY 7TH IS LIKE 15TH OF JUNE. SO HE'S GOT PLENTY OF TIME. IF HE DOES GO TO THE, TO THE ZDA TO APPLY, WE CAN DO THAT. I DON'T KNOW THAT WE'RE GONNA BE RESOLVED ANYTHING. I WOULD RATHER RESOLVE WHETHER OR NOT WE'RE GOING FOR EXPERIENCE. IF HE NEEDS A VARIANCE, I WOULD RATHER WAIT, DO THE PUBLIC HEARING UNTIL AFTER. BECAUSE IT, IF HE GETS A USE, WELL VARIANCE DOES HE HAVE TO COME BACK HERE? IF HE GETS A USE VARIANCE, THEN HE DOESN'T SEE YOU GUYS AGAIN. DONE. WELL THEN I THEN I THINK WE SHOULD NOT DO THE PUBLIC HEARING THEN WE'LL FIGURE OUT WHAT HE EATS. BECAUSE I DON'T THINK WE NEED TO HAVE HIM HAVE TO COME HERE FOR A PUBLIC HEARING. IF YOU COULD SEE EXPERIENCE AND THAT ELIMINATES THE TO COME HERE, [01:30:03] WOULD WE EVEN NEED A PUBLIC HEARING IF IT'S JUST AN APPROVAL WITH CONDITIONS WE RECYCLING. RIGHT. THEY WERE THINKING OF DOING A SITE PLAN WAIVER. WE MAY HAVE TO COME HERE BECAUSE YEAH. I DON'T THINK WE CAN DO WAIVER OF USE. BUT THEY'RE REALLY NOT DOING ANYTHING TO THE SITE. THERE'S NO SITE PLAN. THEY'RE JUST MOVING INTO THE BUILDING. AND THE IDEA OF A SITE PLAN WAIVER WAS BECAUSE OF THE PROBLEM OF USE, WE WANTED TO BRING IT HERE. WELL, WE, WE CAN DO A SITE PLAN WAIVER WITH CONDITIONS. CONDITIONS, YES. CONDITIONS, YES. SO, SO WE WOULDN'T HAVE TO HOLD A PUBLIC HEARING IF, IF, IF WE'RE ON FOR TWO WEEKS AND WORK OUT DETAIL. RIGHT. SO WE, WE CAN PUT IT ON FOR TWO WEEKS. IF WE CAN WORK OUT THE DETAILS, WE CAN DO A SITE PLAN WAIVER WITH CONDITIONS. AND JAY AND I'LL MEET WITH ROGER. ALRIGHT. DOES EVERYBODY UNDERSTAND THAT? YES. IF THAT DOESN'T WORK, HE'S GOTTA PURSUE YOUR RIGHT. AND I MEAN, I'M NOT GONNA SAY THAT'S GONNA WORK. OKAY. I, I THINK THE OTHER PROCESS IS, IS A LOT SIMPLER AND CLEANER. UM, SO JUST SO YOU KNOW, I WANNA BE STRAIGHT. OKAY. OKAY. SO THAT'S WHAT WE WILL DO. WE'LL JUST TABLE WJ MILLIGAN TO JUNE 2ND. SECOND. MOTION BY MR. CLARK. SECOND BY MR. MAHONEY. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. AYE. AYE. MOTION CARRIED. ALRIGHT. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. . I'M GOING EASY ON HIM. I'M TRYING NOT TO SUCK. TRY NOT TO DO WHAT? I'M TRYING NOT TO SUCK IN TOO MANY THINGS. YEAH, PLEASE DON'T. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE. DOUBLE. OKAY. SO LET'S START OUR REGULAR MEETING. UH, EVERYONE WELCOME TO THE MAY 19TH MEETING OF THE TOWN OF, OF HAMBURG PLANNING BOARD. YOU PLEASE RISE FOR THE PLEASURE PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH STANDS ON NATION UNDER GOD IN LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR. ALRIGHT, FIRST ITEM ON THE AGENDA IS A PUBLIC HEARING FOR DAVID HOLMES REQUESTING PLANNING BOARD APPROVAL OF MODIFICATIONS TO THE PREVIOUSLY APPROVED WATERFORD PINE SUBDIVISION REGARDING FRONT YARD SETBACKS, WATERFORD PRESERVE LIMITS AND LOCATION OF PEDESTRIAN PATHS. AND AS WE MIGHT REMEMBER, ONE OF THE THINGS WE WERE GONNA TRY AND FIGURE OUT WHAT WE WANTED TO DO IS IF WE CAN, IF WE HAVE TO DECIDE ON THE ENTIRE THING ALL AT ONCE OR IF WE CAN DECIDE ON CERTAIN THINGS AND GET MORE INFORMATION ON OTHER THINGS. SO, UM, FOR ANYTHING CHANGED SINCE THE LAST TIME YOU WERE HERE, NO. ANY QUESTIONS FROM THE BOARD MEMBERS BEFORE WE START THE PUBLIC HEARING? ALRIGHT. ALL RIGHT. WHY DON'T WE GO RIGHT INTO THE NOTICE, PLEASE? SURE. THANK YOU. NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN THAT THE TOWN OF HAMBURG PLANNING BOARD WILL CONDUCT A PUBLIC HEARING ON A REQUEST BY DAVID HOLMES TO MODIFY THE PREVIOUSLY APPROVED WATERFORD PINES SUBDIVISION REGARDING THE FRONT YARD SETBACKS OF WATERFORD PRESERVE AND THE LOCATION OF PEDESTRIAN PATHS. THE PUBLIC HEARING WILL BE HELD ON MAY 19TH, 2021 AT 7:00 PM IN ROOM SEVEN B OF HAMBURG TOWN HALL. ALL RIGHT, LET ME JUST PULL UP THE FACEBOOK PAGE SO I CAN SEE IF THERE'S ANY COMMENTS AT THIS TIME. I WILL. OKAY. UM, AT THIS TIME I'LL OPEN UP THE PUBLIC MEETING. IS THERE ANYONE HERE THAT WANTS TO SPEAK, UH, ON THE WATERFORD PINES MODIFICATIONS? IS THERE ANY WAY WE CAN SEE IT? OH YEAH, YOU CAN COME UP. IT'S RIGHT UP HERE. SO IF I MAY I'LL EXPLAIN IT TO YOU. BE ALRIGHT WITH EVERYONE? YEAH, SURE. SO I'LL START FOR THE RECORD, FOR THE PUBLIC HEARING, MY NAME IS WILLIAM TY, I'M WITH DAVID HOLMES NINE 60 PLUS AVENUE IN BUFFALO, NEW YORK. AND I THANK YOU MR. CHAIRMAN AND MEMBERS OF THE BOARD AND MEMBERS OF PUBLIC. THIS IS WHAT WAS ORIGINALLY APPROVED AS WATERPROOF LINES AND WHAT IT SHOWS WERE THESE LOTS, THE WATERPROOF PRESERVE LINES, THE TRAIL SYSTEM THAT WAS IN THERE. WHAT WE HAVE [01:35:01] IS THE 20 WHAT SUBSEQUENT TO THE ORIGINAL APPROVAL WHEN PHASE ONE WAS CONSTRUCTED. THIS IS THE LIMIT OF PHASE ONE. THIS IS PHASE TWO, THREE AND THEN FOUR WHERE IT GETS COMPLETED. SO THE PLAN WAS REVISED AND WHEN IT WAS REVISED, THE TWO HORSESHOE COURTS WERE REPLACED WITH TWO CUL-DE-SACS. LEMME GET OUT OF YOUR WAY SO YOU CAN SEE BETTER. I SORRY. SORRY ABOUT THAT. SO THESE CUL-DE-SACS WENT IN AND AT THAT TIME WHEN THE BOARD APPROVED THIS RECONFIGURATION, THEY CHANGED THE SETBACK, THESE 17 HOMES IN PHASE ONE. AND THE ENTIRE DEVELOPMENT WAS APPROVED WITH A 20 FOOT SETBACK, WHICH IS THE CODE BEFORE A CLUSTER DEVELOPMENT. WHAT THEY DECIDED TO DO WAS CHANGE THE SETBACK BEFORE THE FUTURE PHASES WHEN THIS WAS APPROVED AND THEY MADE IT 25 FEET. SO IT'S THESE 17 HOMES THAT ARE ALL BUILT TO TWO 20 AND UP TO HERE. AND THEN IT SWITCHES TO 25 THE COURTS, BECAUSE THEY'RE SO TIGHT, THEY REMAINED AT 20. AND THE TWO LOTS, THAT IRREGULAR LOTS THAT FRAMED THIS COURT ALSO. SO HERE IT STAYED 20 AND HERE IT STAYED 20, BUT EVERYWHERE ELSE, ALL THE WAY AROUND IT PUSHED BACK TO 25. AND SO WHAT WE SAID WAS, WE WOULD LIKE TO GO BACK TO THE ORIGINAL 20, WHICH AGAIN IS CODE AND GO BACK TO 20 FEET. SO IT'S CONSISTENT WITH THIS. AND THE REASONING FOR THAT IS, IS THAT THE, WE'RE TRYING TO RECOGNIZE THAT IN THE PAST WHAT HAPPENED WHEN THIS WAS ORIGINALLY APPROVED, THE ORIGINAL PERSON THAT WAS IN CHARGE OF THIS PROJECT HAD DISCOVERED SOMETHING CALLED NEW URBANISM AND, AND FOUND FAVOR WITH THAT. AND THE PRINCIPLES OF THAT ARE, ARE FOUNDED IN PREDOMINANTLY WALKABILITY. MM-HMM . CREATING A PLACE WHERE IT'S A NEIGHBORHOOD TO GET OUT AND SPEND TIME AND ENGAGE WITH THE OTHER PEOPLE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD. MM-HMM . AND ONE OF THOSE ELEMENTS IS THAT THE FRONT YARD BECOMES WHAT'S IN THE PARLANCE OF THAT, THAT INDUSTRY? IT'S THE, IT'S THE, UM, PUBLIC REALM. THE PLACE WHERE YOU SIT ON AND YOU NOTICE THE HOUSES HAVE FRONT PORCHES AND BALCONIES. AND THE IDEA IS THAT YOU, YOU HAVE THE HOUSE OUT CLOSE TO THE SIDEWALK AND PEOPLE WALK THROUGH THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND THEY STOP AND THEY ENGAGE WITH THE PEOPLE, THE OCCUPANTS OF THE HOUSE. BUT ARE THESE ALL JUST A, ARE THESE ALL GONE? ARE THESE ALL BUILT? NO. OKAY. NO, THESE ARE BUILT HERE, FILLED OUT, UP TO HERE STILL. SO CAN WE MOVE ON WITH THEM? THE MEETING INSTEAD OF ANSWERING YOU WE'RE IN THE HEARING AND THEY WANNA ANSWER QUESTIONS FROM THEM, RIGHT? I HAVE, I HAVE, WE DON'T TYPICALLY LET PEOPLE ANSWER QUESTIONS DURING THE PUBLIC HEARING. RIGHT. I I I WAS GONNA, I LET 'EM BRIEFLY EXPLAIN IT BECAUSE I DIDN'T LET 'EM EXPLAIN IT AHEAD OF TIME, BUT IT, IT HAS GONE ON A LONG TIME. RIGHT. I I JUST WANT, I JUST, I JUST WANNA MAKE A POINT 'CAUSE I KNOW RESIDENTS THAT LIVE OVER ON LILYDALE AND STUFF HAVE COMPLAINED. ALL THOSE PEOPLE HAVE OVER THERE HAVE COMPLAINED ABOUT THE, THE WATER RUNNING TO THEIR AREA. MM-HMM . FROM THIS DEVELOPMENT. FROM THIS DEVELOPMENT. OKAY. YES. IT'S NOT TRUE BY THE WAY, THIS BEEN LOOKED INTO HOLD, LET'S STOP. STOP. RIGHT. OKAY. PUBLIC HEARING. FAIR ENOUGH. WE'RE GONNA TAKE PUBLIC COMMENTS, WE'RE NOT GONNA DO IT BACK AND FORTH. FAIR ENOUGH THAT, THAT WAS MY CONCERN. OKAY. IS THE WATER RUNNING TO LILY DOWN INTO THAT AREA? OKAY. THANK YOU. UM, CAN YOU PUT YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS ON THE RECORD FOR THE MINUTES PLEASE? OKAY. LAURA . THANKS. OKAY, THANK YOU. UH, ANYBODY ELSE ON THE WATER FOR PINES MODIFICATIONS FOR THE SECOND TIME? ANYONE ELSE WISHING TO SPEAK FOR OR AGAINST THE MODIFICATIONS TO THE WATER FOR PINE SUBDIVISION? UH, FOR THE THIRD AND FINAL TIME? ANYONE FOR OR AGAINST WATERFORD PINES. OKAY. AND THERE'S ALSO NO COMMENTS FOR THIS ONLINE. SO AT THIS TIME I WILL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING, UH, AN ISSUE AT THE WORK SESSION. YOU SAID THE, THE NUMBER ONE POINT IS THE 20 FOOT SETBACKS, RESTORING THE SETBACKS. UM, I, I MEAN, JUST TO SPEAK FOR MYSELF, I I, I LIKE THE IDEA OF THE 20 FEET SETBACKS. MM-HMM . UM, I ALSO THINK IF THE HOUSES ARE MOVED CLOSER TO THE STREET, THEN MAYBE YOU DON'T NEED AS MUCH OF THE CHANGES YOU'RE ASKING FOR IN THE BACK BECAUSE IT'S PHYSICALLY FARTHER AWAY FROM THE HOUSE. UH, WHAT DOES EVERYBODY ELSE ON THE PLANNING BOARD THINK ABOUT THIS? 'CAUSE IT, IT WAS KIND OF AN UNUSUAL REQUEST THAT WE, WE DECIDE EITHER WE DECIDE ALL OF IT OR WE CAN DECIDE PART OF IT, OR IT WAS KIND OF UNUSUAL. SO [01:40:01] I GUESS I, WE GOT A LOT OF LANGUAGE THROWN AT US AND I, I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT I, I UNDERSTAND THE REQUEST IS TO CHANGE SETBACKS THAT ARE 25 FEET TO 20 FEET, OR FROM 35 FEET? 25 TO 20. I GUESS, IF I'M GONNA BE HONEST, I, THERE WAS A LOT OF CONCERNS RAISED AT THE LAST MEETING AND A LOT OF EMOTIONAL ARGUMENT ABOUT SAFETY AND BACKYARDS AND ALL THIS STUFF. AND WE'RE LOOKING AT A FIVE FOOT SHIFT. I'M JUST OVER FIVE TALL, THAT'S NOT A BIG DISTANCE. AND I, I GUESS I'M WONDERING, GIVEN THE, THE WEALTH OF THINGS THAT WERE SAID LAST TIME, I IF MADE THIS INTO A BIT MORE OF A, THE RATIONALE I, I'M NOT NECESSARILY OPPOSED, BUT I GUESS I, I TAKE SOME, SOME OF THE CONCERNS THAT WERE RAISED ABOUT SAFETY AND BACKYARDS AND ALL OF THIS STUFF OVER, OVER FIVE FEET, I'M, I'M NOT NECESSARILY OPPOSED TO ADJUSTING IT, BUT THIS HAS BEEN IN FRONT OF THE PLANNING BOARD AS RECENTLY AS I BELIEVE 2017 AND REVIEWED. UM, I GUESS I'M WONDERING WHY IT WAS OKAY THEN AND IT'S NOT OKAY NOW. AND, AND IF THAT FIVE FEET IS REALLY GONNA MAKE THAT DRAMATIC OF A DIFFERENCE, WELL, THE, THE FIVE FEET WAS SO THAT WE COULD MOVE THE HOUSES BACK IN LINE AND EVERY LITTLE BIT HELPS. IT'S, IT'S, IT'S REALLY BIG FOR THE FOLK PEOPLE THAT ARE TRYING TO HAVE SOME USABLE BACKYARD BECAUSE RIGHT NOW THEY ESSENTIALLY HAVE NONE. THE SECOND ISSUE IN TERMS OF SAFETY AND, AND HAVING STRANGERS IN YOUR BACKYARD, PARTICULARLY IN THESE YARDS AROUND THE PERIMETER WHERE THEY ARE VERY, VERY, VERY TIGHT. AND AS WE SAID, IT WAS LESS OF AN ISSUE IN THE CENTER. IT'S NOT AN ISSUE BACK OVER HERE. IT'S REALLY THESE AREAS HERE WHERE YOU CAN SEE IT'S NOT THE FIVE FEET. IT WAS REMOVING THE TRAIL SYSTEM FROM THERE AND RECOGNIZING THAT THE PEDESTRIAN SYSTEM IS ALONG THE STREET ON THESE SIDEWALKS OUT, ALONG BACK THROUGH THIS SYSTEM IS WHAT'S THERE. AND TAKING IT AND TAKING IT OUT OF HERE, WHICH IS WHAT WAS ON THE ORIGINAL PLAN. IF YOU, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU COULD SEE THAT ON THE CAMERA IF IT'S AS VISIBLE. I I MEAN I, YEAH, I MEAN, I GUESS I'M GONNA BE HONEST. I THINK THE BIGGER CONCERN IS, AND WE'VE BEEN WRESTLING WITH SOME OTHER THINGS, IS THAT THE LOCKS, IT'S, IT'S NOT SO MUCH THE SETBACK THAT THE REASON THAT MAKING THESE RELATIVELY SMALL SETBACK CHANGES IS BECAUSE THE LOCKS THAT WERE APPROVED ARE PERHAPS TOO SMALL. AND I GUESS THE QUESTION IS, IS I KNOW YOU WANNA MAXIMIZE YOUR DEVELOPMENT HERE RATHER THAN SHIFTING THINGS FIVE FEET TO MAKE IT MORE MARKETABLE. IS THERE A REASON YOU MIGHT WANNA CONSIDER POTENTIALLY CHANGING THE AMOUNT OF LOTS OR THE WAY THAT THIS IS SET UP TO MAKE IT MORE ATTRACT ATTRACTED TO MORE USEFUL? I DON'T WANNA JUST BE PUSHING THINGS AROUND 5G HERE, 5G THERE. UM, NOT MAKING A SUBSTANTIVE CHANGE WHEN PERHAPS TRYING TO SOMEHOW CONSIDER CONSOLIDATING OR MERGING THINGS TO MAKE UP A LARGER BOT MIGHT GIVE BETTER SOLUTION TO YOUR PROBLEM. WELL THAT'S THE, THIS WAS A APPROVED AS A CLUSTER AND THE CLUSTER REMEMBERED THAT THE CODE IS 20 FEET. WE'RE NOT ASKING FOR RELIEF ON THAT. WE'RE ASKING TO RETURN TO THE ACTUAL SETBACK BY CODE, WHICH IS THE WAY THE FIRST PHASE WAS CONSTRUCTED. IT WAS WHEN THESE CUL-DE-SACS WERE APPROVED, THE BOARD CHANGED IT AND PUSHED THE HOMES BACK FIVE FEET. WE'RE JUST ASKING TO GO BACK TO THE ORIGINAL APPROVAL AND THE, AND WHAT IS CODE. SO THAT'S, AND THAT IS MY, MY PRIMARY OBJECTIVE IS TO GET THAT ISSUE DONE AND THEN THESE OTHER ISSUES. BUT WHEN IT WAS CHANGED FROM 20 TO 25, WASN'T THAT DONE AT THE APPLICANT'S REQUEST? UH, I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT'S TRUE. I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW THAT I WASN'T THERE. I CAN'T, SO I CAN'T SAY THAT I'M, I WAS READING THE MINUTES AGAIN AND AGAIN, I CAN'T FIND WHY WE WOULD'VE REQUESTED THE 25, BUT IT IS PUSHED FOR HEAVILY BY THE APPLICANT FOR THE 25 B. RIGHT. YOU MENTIONED SEVERAL TIMES IN THE MINUTES THAT THEY'RE RIGHT. THAT'S, THAT'S KIND OF WHAT I'M GETTING AT. AND SO WHAT, WHAT I HAVE FOUND THOUGH AS, OH, I'M SORRY. GO AHEAD. CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG BECAUSE YOU WERE HERE TOO. THE WAY I REMEMBER IT IS I THOUGHT THAT THE SETBACKS WERE ALL 25 AND IN 16 OR 17 THE DEVELOPER CAME IN AND ASKED THAT SOME OF THEM GO TO 20 ON THE CUL-DE-SAC AND A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT, I THINK, I THINK THAT'S WHAT IT WAS. NO. PHASE ONE IS WHEN IT WAS, IT WASN'T PHASE ONE. WE WERE TALKING ABOUT PHASE TWO. IT HAD SOMETHING TO DO WITH THE GARAGES IN THERE. LIKE THE GARAGES WERE SET BACK FURTHER. SO MAYBE THE GARAGES WERE SET BACK 25, THE HOUSES WERE 20. RIGHT. BUT THEN WHEN THE GARAGES WERE BROUGHT FLUSH AND THE GARAGES WERE BROUGHT [01:45:01] FLUSH WHEN THEY GOT RID OF THE HORSESHOE. SO THAT'S THE NEIGHBORHOOD WHERE THE, THE NEIGHBORS WANTED THE GARAGES BEHIND THE HOUSE BECAUSE THE PHASE ONE WAS ALL LIKE THAT. AND THEN SO, SO, OKAY. I MEAN, I WAS ON THE PLANET WHERE THAT, I FEEL LIKE THERE MUST HAVE BEEN A REASON WHY THEY WANTED THE 25 FEET. THAT'S NOT SOMETHING WE WOULD, WE DON'T TYPICALLY REQUIRE MORE THAN WHAT, SO WHEN THEY MOVED THE GARAGES, EVEN WITH THE HOUSE, OKAY. THE 25 WAS A COMPROMISE TO HAVE MORE ROOM FOR CARS IN THE DRIVEWAY. AND IT WAS, UH, BECAUSE THERE WAS A LOT OF RESIDENTS THAT CAME IN AND THEY, THEY DIDN'T WANT THE GARAGES, UM, EVEN WITH THE REST OF THE HOUSE. AND WHAT WAS BROUGHT IN FRONT OF US AT THE TIME WAS SAYING THESE, THE, UH, THE HOME STYLES THAT WAS AGREED TO ORIGINALLY THEY WEREN'T SELLING. THEY WEREN'T SELLING. YEP. SO THEY WANTED TO DO DIFFERENT LAYOUTS. AND THOSE LAYOUTS HAD GARAGES THAT WENT ALL THE WAY TO THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE. UM, ACTUALLY WENT A LITTLE BIT BEYOND THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE, WHICH IS WHY WE HAD, WHEN THEY DID THAT, WE WANTED IN PORCHES SO THE GARAGES WOULDN'T GO BEYOND THE PORCH. UM, SO THAT'S WHERE THE 25 CAME FROM. 'CAUSE THEY CHANGED THE TYPE OF HOUSE WHICH REALLY CHANGED THE CHARACTER OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD. UM, IT WAS ONE OF THE POINTS THAT A LOT OF THE NEIGHBORS IN PHASE ONE HAVING THE, THE GARAGES BEHIND THE HOUSE WAS A, A FEATURE THAT THEY REALLY LIKED. SO, AND I THINK THE OTHER ISSUE THAT TIES INTO THAT TOO THOUGH, IS HE'S TALKING ABOUT BACKYARD SPACE NOT BEING SELLABLE AND PEOPLE WANTING MORE BACKYARD SPACE, I GUESS. RIGHT. THESE ARE ALL INTERCONNECTED MM-HMM . AND I GUESS IT SOUNDS LIKE THERE WAS A REASON TO DO SOME OF THIS AND PEOPLE BOUGHT INTO A COMMUNITY THE WAY IT WAS. AND I, I GUESS IF BILL SEES A REASON THAT THESE DECISIONS WERE MADE TO APPEASE THE PEOPLE WHO'VE ALREADY BOUGHT IN AND OUR EXISTING RESIDENTS, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T WANNA CHANGE THAT FROM THEM. THEY'RE ALREADY LOCKED IN AND OWN THESE PROPERTIES. RIGHT. UM, AND I I CAN, THE PEOPLE THAT WERE, WERE THERE IN PHASE ONE ARE ALL BUILT AT 20 FEET. RIGHT. SO WHEN PHASE TWO WAS BEGAN CHANGE, AND WE'RE NOW FINDING THEY WERE BUILT AT 20 FEET, BUT THEIR GARAGES WERE MORE THAN 25 FEET FROM THE ROAD. AND THAT WAS, THAT WAS ONE OF THE FEATURES THAT THEY REALLY LIKED WAS THE GARAGES BEING NOT UP IN THE HOUSE. UM, YOU KNOW, SOME, SOME PLACES THEY HAVE THEM, THEY, THEY CALL 'EM SNOUT HOUSES WHERE THE ENTIRE FRONT OF THE HOUSE LOOKS IN THE GARAGE. YES. AND THAT WAS, WAS WHAT WE WANTED TO AVOID. AND THAT WAS THE, THE CHANGE. UM, AND THERE, THERE'S NOT A SINGLE HOUSE IN THERE THAT'S BUILT LIKE A SNOUT HOUSE. THERE'S NO RIGHT, BECAUSE BECAUSE WE NOT ONE HOUSE HAS A PREDOMINANT FEATURE. RIGHT. BECAUSE WE SAID NO FORWARD, WHICH IS FINE. RIGHT. BUT WHAT WE HAVE FOUND IS AT 25 IS THAT YOU WOULD LITERALLY, WITH A PRESERVE LINE AT 97 FEET, THEN DRAINAGE EASEMENTS INSIDE OF THAT, YOU HAVE PEOPLE WHO HAVE NOTHING FOR A BACKYARD. RIGHT. AND BECAUSE IT HAS TO RETURN TO GRADE, YOU WILL SEE, YOU CAN GO OUT THERE AND SEE IT DOWN. YOU WALK BEHIND THOSE HOUSES, THOSE ARE EXTRAORDINARILY STEEP BACKYARDS BECAUSE THE GR HAS TO RETURN SHARPLY SO THAT THE TREES THAT ARE IN THE PRESERVE DON'T, DON'T DROWN. AND IT'S IN, IN THE DIRT. SO IF FILL A TREE AROUND THE TRUNK, SO AM I CORRECT IN NOTE THINKING THAT THE PRESERVE IS CREATED IN EXCHANGE FOR IT BEING A CLUSTER? YES. YES. OKAY. CORRECT. CORRECT. SO AGAIN, THE THE, THE PRIMARY ISSUE FOR ME NOW, BECAUSE WE ARE TRYING TO, WE ARE TRYING TO CLOSE CONTRACTS WITH PEOPLE. HOW ABOUT THIS? JUST GET, GET THAT ITEM RESOLVED AS FAR AS THE 20 FOOT SETBACK, THE 20 FOOT SETBACK, WHERE DO THE GARAGES GO? THERE'S NOT, AGAIN, NOT ONE HOUSE HAS BEEN BUILT, BUILT WITH THEM CLOSER. SO THEY ARE ALL RIGHT. BUT I, THERE ARE HOUSES IN THE, IS IT GONNA BE MORE LIKE PHASE ONE WHERE THE HOUSE WILL BE 20? YES, BUT THE GARAGE WILL BE 25. SO THE GARAGE WOULDN'T BE EVEN WITH THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE, THE GARAGE WOULD START AFTER THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE. MM-HMM . WHICH WAS WHAT PHASE ONE WAS WHEN THEY DID THE ORIGINAL 20. RIGHT. ARE THE, THE LAYOUTS GONNA BE LIMITED TO SOMETHING LIKE THAT? OR IS THAT NOT WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING FOR? I THINK I'D PREFER NOT TO HAVE THAT. I'D LIKE TO HAVE A 20 FOOT SETBACK AND I DON'T WANNA HAVE HOUSES PROJECT FORWARD. THAT'S NOT WHAT WE'RE ASKING FOR. MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT. THERE ARE HOUSES EVEN IN PHASE ONE THAT HAVE A, A, A FLAT FRONT, UM, SETBACK GARAGE IN LINE WITH THE REST OF THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE, THE FRONT PORCH. WE'RE NOT SAYING PROJECTED, YOU KNOW, RIGHT. OF THAT. BUT, UM, YOU KNOW, THE WAY THESE HOMES ARE [01:50:01] DESIGNED TODAY, YOU TYPICALLY HAVE A FAMILY ROOM BEHIND THAT GARAGE. YOU PUSH THE GARAGE BACK, YOU PUSH THE BACK OF THE HOUSE BACK. THEY'RE JUST, THERE'S JUST SUCH MUCH A LIMITED AMOUNT OF SPACE TO WORK WITH HERE. AND IT'S EXACERBATED WHEN YOU GET TO THIS PERIMETER. LOTS. SO ALL WE'RE, AGAIN, WE'RE REALLY LOOKING JUST TO GO TO THE CODE, TO THE 20 FEET AND THEN WE'LL, WE'LL WORK WITH YOU ON THE OTHER ITEMS. I'M NOT SURE THAT ANYONE'S COMFORTABLE TAKING IT FURTHER. IF YOU ARE, GREAT, I DON'T WANT TO DISCOURAGE YOU FROM APPROVING SOMETHING, BUT, BUT I ALSO DON'T WANNA WALK AWAY, UM, WITH A STRAIGHT DENIAL ON ANYTHING. SO I'M HAPPY TO CONTINUE THE DIALOGUE AND THE DISCUSSION OF HOW TO HANDLE SOME OF THOSE OTHER ISSUES. I THINK THEY'RE IMPORTANT. I THINK THOSE QUAL AND, AND IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT FOR US AS I I I'M BEING SINCERE ABOUT THAT. WE MADE THIS PRESENTATION AS A QUALITY OF LIFE ISSUE FOR THE PEOPLE THAT LIVE IN THIS NEIGHBORHOOD. AND I THINK IT IS REALLY IMPORTANT FOR THAT. MY KIDS ARE NOW GROWN, BUT I REMEMBER THE DAYS WHEN THEY WERE SMALL AND THE CONCERN FOR THEIR SECURITY AND SAFETY. IT'S NOT SOMETHING I TAKE WELL, ONE OF THE DIFFICULT THINGS. SO THIS WAS A CLUSTER. YES. AND WHEN THEY MADE THE CLUSTER, THERE WAS A DEFINED PLAN ON WHAT THE HOUSES WOULD LOOK LIKE. AND THEN THAT CHANGED. AND NOW IT'S CHANGING AGAIN. AND IF YOU HAVE A CLUSTER WHERE ALL THE HOUSES ARE ALL TOGETHER AND YOU KEEP CHANGING THE PLANS, IT'S GONNA BE REALLY, REALLY MESSED UP. I MEAN, THAT'S, THAT'S NOT WHAT THEY'RE FOR. THEY'RE, THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO LOOK LIKE THEY ALL FIT TOGETHER. WELL, I THINK THE, WHAT WAS, AND AGAIN, I WASN'T HERE WHEN THE TOOK PLACE, BUT MY UNDERSTANDING IS, IS THAT THE DISCUSSION WAS TO MAKE SURE THESE HOUSES HAD THIS SORT OF, UM, ELEMENTS THAT ENCOURAGED THE SOCIAL INTERACTION, UH, WITH THE HOUSE AND THE SIDEWALK. DON'T BUILD HOUSES WITHOUT FRONT PORCHES. THESE, THESE, THOSE ELEMENTS HAVE BEEN CONSISTENT. THEY HAVE NOT BEEN TAKEN AWAY. THESE HOUSES CONTINUE TO BE BUILT THAT WAY. HOUSES, THE HOUSES THEMSELVES CHANGE TO SUIT THE NEEDS OF, OF CLEARLY OF WHAT THE MARKET IS. IT DOESN'T SERVE ANYONE TO BUILD A STREET AND HAVE INFRASTRUCTURE IN PLACE. AND FOR US TO JUST PAY TAXES ON LOTS THAT WE CAN'T SELL OR THE TOWN TO HAVE TO MAINTAIN INFRASTRUCTURE WITH NO HOMES ALONG IT. SO THE HOMES, THERE WAS NO ARCHITECTURAL REQUIREMENT IS MY UNDERSTANDING. OTHER THAN THAT IT WASN'T APPROVED WITH ARCHITECTURAL PLANS. THESE ARE THE HOUSES THAT ARE BUILT AND LIKE A SITE PLAN INSTEAD OF A SUBDIVISION. THE PLAN, IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY, THERE WAS AN, THE ORIGINAL APPROVAL INCLUDED ACTUAL PLANS FOR HOUSES. NO. INCLUDED, INCLUDED DIFFERENT SETBACKS FOR GARAGES THAN THE OTHER HOUSES. YEAH. THE NOTES. SO, I MEAN, I WASN'T ON THE PLANNING BOARD WHEN IT WAS FIRST APPROVED MM-HMM . BUT WHEN IT CAME BACK FOR THE MODIFICATION, I WAS, AND I REMEMBER THAT WAS WE HAD A LOT OF RESIDENTS COME IN AND, AND THEY WERE REALLY UPSET THAT THEY WERE GONNA CHANGE THE CHARACTER BECAUSE THEY BOUGHT THINKING THE WHOLE CLUSTER WOULD LOOK THE SAME. WELL THAT'S, AND THAT WAS WHERE THE 25 FEET CAME FROM BECAUSE THEY WANTED TO HAVE, THEY DIDN'T WANNA HAVE THE, THE GARAGES TOO CLOSE TO THE ROAD. UM, RIGHT. WELL, I DON'T KNOW HOW HOUSES, EVEN IN PHASE ONE THAT WE DIDN'T BUILD WERE BUILT THAT WAY WITH GARAGES AT 24 SETBACK. SO I MEAN, THAT'S UNDENIABLE THAT THERE ARE HOUSES IN THAT REGARD. THERE ARE DEFINITELY HOUSES WITH THE GARAGE SETBACK AS WELL. THERE'S A MIX. AND, AND TO ME THAT IS THE IDEAL SITUATION. THAT THERE'S A VARIETY OF, OF HOMES AND IT ISN'T COOKIE CUTTER. IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE A PATIO OF DEVELOPMENT WHERE EVERY SINGLE HOUSE IS IDENTICAL. THIS IS THE IDEA THAT THERE'S SOME DIVERSITY OF HOUSING IS IMPORTANT TO ME, AND I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO CARE OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD. SO IT'S NOT THE OVERWHELMING ISSUE TO ME. CERTAINLY. AND I, I CERTAINLY DON'T WANNA LOSE THAT CONTROL SO THAT I GET THE OBJECTIVE MET OF MOVING THE HOUSE UP TO 20 FEET AND THEN I HAVE TO LOSE IT AGAIN BY PUSHING A GARAGE. IF, IF A HOUSE DESIGN ACCOMMODATES IT, NOT A PROBLEM. BUT IF I HAVE A HOUSE DESIGN THAT HAS A FAMILY ROOM DIRECTLY BEHIND THE GARAGE AND I HAVE TO PUSH THE GARAGE BACK, AND THAT MAKES ME PUSH IT ALL, I'VE DEFEATED THE ENTIRE PURPOSE OF HAVING, HAVING THAT WITH THAT PARTICULAR MODEL HOME. SO IT'S REALLY A QUESTION OF DIVERSITY OF FORM, ATTRACTIVENESS OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD, UTILITY OF A BACKYARD SO THAT PEOPLE ACTUALLY HAVE A BACKYARD AND CAN ENJOY THAT SPACE. AND THEN TRYING TO ACCOMMODATE THOSE FEATURES OF A HOUSE, THOSE ARCHITECTURAL ELEMENTS THAT ENCOURAGE THE SOCIAL INTERACTION OF PEOPLE ON THE SIDEWALK AND THE PEOPLE THAT SIT ON THE PORCH. I THINK THOSE ARE I IMPORTANT ELEMENTS HERE. AND THEN THE OTHER ELEMENTS OF, OF THE PRESERVE AND, AND WHETHER THE TRAILS VISED, THEN WE, WE COULD TALK ABOUT THAT. I, I MEAN THAT THE PRESERVE, THAT THAT WAS PART OF THE CLUSTER DEVELOPMENT. THAT'S, THAT'S ISSUE. I UNDERSTAND THAT THE TRAILS IN PEOPLE'S BACKYARDS, COULDN'T THAT ISSUE BE SOLVED EASIER WITH FENCES? ARE THE TRAILS YOU GO THOSE, THAT'S AN ISSUE. CAN'T THEY PUT IN FENCE, GO, GO INTO THOSE , GO INTO THOSE YARDS [01:55:01] AND TAKE AND SEE HOW TIGHT THEY ARE? I, THAT'S THE BALANCE TOO. CLUSTER. SO THIS COMES BACK TO WHAT I SAID ABOUT THE LOT SIZES THE DEVELOPER AGREES THE CLUSTER. WE, I MEAN IF, IF IT REALLY IS A TRUE CONCERN MM-HMM . IS IT WORTH CONSIDERING DESIGNING DIFFERENT HOUSES OR MAKING SMALLER HOUSES? LIKE MAYBE IT WON'T SELL FOR AS MUCH, BUT IF THAT TRULY IS A CONCERN, THESE HOUSES HAVE GOTTEN SMALL. YEAH, THEY'RE ALREADY SMALL. THAT'S WHAT I'M LIKE, I APPRECIATE THE POSITION YOU'RE IN, BUT ALSO IT WAS APPROVED AS A CLUSTER. THERE WAS A REASON IT WAS APPROVED AS A CLUSTER. THERE WERE CONCESSIONS MADE AND AGREEMENTS MADE. THAT'S KIND OF THE DESIGN OF A CLUSTER. IT'S, IT'S JUST A HARD SPOT TO BE, AND AGAIN, I, I AM NOT, THE TRAIL SYSTEM IS NOT A HILL I WANT TO DIE ON. IT, IT, MY PRIMARY ISSUE BY FAR AND AWAY IS THE SETBACK MORE THAN ANYTHING. UM, I'M THE TRAIL SYSTEM. IF IT STAYS, IT STAYS. I AM, I AM, AGAIN, I'M NOT GOING TO, I PUT IT OUT THERE. MM-HMM . IF YOU, IF YOU SEE WISDOM IN IT, GREAT. IF YOU DON'T, YOU DON'T. AND, AND, AND I'LL JUST, AS, AS THE TOWN PLANNER, I MEAN I WAS INVOLVED WHEN THE CLUSTER WAS ORIGINALLY APPROVED, APPROVE. IT WAS APPROVED WITH THE IDEA OF PATIO HOMES AND WHATEVER. IT HAS CHANGED OVER THE YEARS. RIGHT. UM, I BELIEVE THIS PLANNING BOARD, AND WE'VE DEALT WITH THIS ISSUE ON AND OFF FOR THE LAST 15, 20 YEARS ABOUT THE SETBACK. IF YOU WANTED TO GO 20 FEET OF THE SETBACK, I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH IT FROM A PLANNER'S PERSPECTIVE, WE DON'T HAVE THE PILING OF CARS IN DRIVEWAYS. YOU'RE GONNA GET THAT ANYWAY. IF SOMEONE HAS THREE CARS, THE TYPE OF HOUSES THEY'RE PUTTING IN, THERE ARE LARGER FAMILIES IN THEM. THE AREA OF THE ISSUE OF DEALING WITH THE, UM, THE PRESERVE CAN'T TOUCH THAT. THAT WAS PART OF THE ORIGINAL APPROVAL. WE'D HAVE TO START ALL OVER AGAIN. THE IDEA THE CLUSTER WAS TO PRESERVE AN AREA AND IT WAS A LARGE PRESERVE AREA THAT, THAT WAS APPEALING TO THE PLANNING BOARD. NONE OF YOU WERE ON THE PLANNING AT THE TIME. THE PLANNING BOARD AT THAT TIME WAS PRESERVING THOSE TREES. AND IT'S A BEAUTIFUL WOODED AREA. I MEAN, IT WAS A NICE CONCEPT, THE CONCEPT OF THE PEDESTRIAN TRAIL. THERE'S PARTS OF IT IN THERE. IS IT WORKING WELL? MAY NOT BE WORKING WELL OR THE PEOPLE USING IT, IT'S NOT BEING USED, IS THE RESIDENTS AND NEIGHBORHOOD REALLY DON'T WANT A WALKING TRAIL. THE THE, THE SIDEWALKS ARE A GOOD, GOOD FORM OR WHATEVER, BUT I JUST, THE ONE THING YOU CAN'T CHANGE IS THE PRESERVE. BECAUSE THAT WAS THE WHOLE CONCEPT OF, OF THE, OF THE, OF THE, UH, CLUSTER IS THE PRESERVED GREEN SPACE ACT WE ALWAYS TALKED ABOUT. SO, BUT THE SETBACK ISSUE, WE'VE GONE AROUND AROUND OTHER CHALLENGE STRUGGLE WITH THE SETBACK ISSUE. WHETHER IT'S, YOU KNOW, IN A CITY, IN AN URBAN, IT'S UP AT THE, IT'S UP AT THE FRONT IN A SUBURBAN AREA. PEOPLE HAVE DIFFERENT EXPECTATIONS THAT WHETHER IT'S 20 OR 25 FEET, I DON'T, I DON'T HAVE AN ISSUE WITH. UM, AND THAT, LIKE I SAID, THE PEDESTRIAN TRAIL IS, IT'S A FEATURE FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE COMMUNITY IF THEY'RE NOT USING IT. BUT LET'S GET RID OF IT. I MEAN, ARE THE PEOPLE IN THE COMMUNITY REALLY USING THAT, THAT TRAIL IN THE BACKYARD? IT'S NOT A PUBLIC TRAIL PER SE, IT'S FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE COMMUNITY. IF THEY'RE NOT USING IT, THEY'RE NOT USING IT. WE THOUGHT IT WOULD BE AN AMENITY TO, TO, AND ATTRACT PEOPLE THAT THEY HAVE A PLACE TO WALK. UM, AND THAT, YOU KNOW, WE HAVEN'T BUILT THESE PHASES OUT YET. SO, YOU KNOW, IF WE WANT TO WAIT AND EXPERIENCE IT AND SEE, SEE WHAT'S HAPPENING, WE CAN TAKE A LOOK AT IT. LIKE I SAID, THE PRESERVE AREA, I DON'T THINK IS, IS SOMETHING WE CAN DO ANYTHING ABOUT THAT IT CHANGES THE WHOLE CONCEPT OF THE CLUSTER. UM, BUT THE SETBACK ISSUE, IF YOU GUYS WANNA TALK A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT THE SETBACK, I SHOWED YOU THE PICTURES. THE HOUSE IS AT 20 FEET. THEY WORK, I DON'T THINK THERE'S A PROBLEM WITH, WITH THE HOUSES AT 20 FEET. I MEAN, YOU KNOW, IF SOMEONE PARKED THREE CARS, IT WOULD EXTEND OUT ACROSS THE ACROSS. BUT YOU HAVE TWO, TWO CARS IN THE DRIVEWAY SIDE BY SIDE. YOU KNOW, IF YOU HAVE A PARTY, THEY'RE GONNA EXTEND OUT INTO THE STREET. I MEAN, HERE'S THE VIDEO SPOT OR BILL THE VIDEO. YOU COULD DRIVE DOWN THERE AND LOOK, I MEAN, YOU CAN LOOK AT THE PICTURES. I MEAN, FIVE FEET IS NOT GONNA MAKE A BIG DIFFERENCE. I GUESS I'M JUST CONCERNED THAT THIS KEEPS COMING BACK AND THERE'S A NUMBER OF ISSUES. AND I AGREE THAT FIVE FEET ISN'T A BIG DEAL. IT'S NOT A BIG DISTANCE AND A BIG DIFFERENCE, BUT I FEEL LIKE IT'S GETTING PORTRAYED AS MASSIVE DIFFERENCE TO THE BACKYARD. SO THIS WOULD BE, I JUST DON'T WANNA SEE THE HOUSE AT 20 FEET. OH, THE, ON FOUR OR FIVE YEARS HAVE TO REVISIT THINGS AGAIN. YOU WANNA CHANGE THIS. THESE ARE PHASE ONE AND CAITLYN, I AGREE. I MEAN, I SAID THE, THE 20 FOOT SETBACK ISSUE, I DON'T THINK CHANGES THE DEVELOPMENT. IT'D BE HARD FOR US TO TELL THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN 20 AND 25 FEET BACK FROM THE ROAD. THE PRESERVE AREA. THAT WAS THE, THAT WAS THE IMPORTANT PART OF THIS. WE WERE PRESERVING THE TREES AND IT, AND IT WAS HOPEFULLY PEOPLE WERE GONNA MOVE IN THE AREA WITH THE APPRECIATION OF HAVING VERY LITTLE BACKYARD, BUT A LARGE PRESERVED WOOD PRESERVED WOODED AREA. I KNOW SOME, THE PROBLEM IS, SOUNDS LIKE THEIR CLIENTELE DON'T [02:00:01] WANT THAT. I MEAN, WITH A VERY LIMITED BACKYARD. BUT THAT WAS WHAT WAS SOLD. I'M SORRY THAT THAT WAS THE CLUSTER DEVELOPMENT. AND DAVID HOLMES DIDN'T DO THIS, BUT HE BOUGHT INTO IT. AND UNFORTUNATELY THAT'S, THAT'S THE MAJOR PART OF THE SUBDIVISION IS THE GREEN SPACE. UM, CHANGING THAT IS MIGHT AS WELL STARTLE OVER ON IT. MM-HMM . ALRIGHT. AND YOU KNOW, LAST AT THE WORK SESSION, WE DID THE MATH ON THAT WITH A, A THEORETICAL 50 FOOT HOME AND WE TALKED ABOUT THAT, UH, 20 FOOT VERSUS 25 AND THE 50 FEET AND THE 97 FEET TO THE PRESERVE LINE MINUS 10, SOMETIMES IN SOME INSTANCES 15, TAKING IT OFF FOR A DRAINAGE EASEMENT, WHICH LEFT YOU WITH NO BACKYARD. AND, AND THE REALLY, IT'S, IT'S NOT JUST THE PRESERVE LINE, IT'S THERE'S INSIDE THE PRESERVE LINE IS THE DRAINAGE EASEMENT. AND THAT'S, THAT'S ANOTHER RESTRICTION. SO LOOK, THAT FIVE FEET IS A BIG DIFFERENCE IN TERMS OF WHAT YOU HAVE, WHAT YOU HAVE IN THE BACKYARD. IT DOESN'T, MAY NOT SEEM LIKE MUCH AS A SAYING ONLY FIVE FEET, BUT THAT FIVE FEET IS A BIG DEAL BECAUSE IT'S ALSO THE EASEMENTS, THE DRAINAGE EASEMENTS ON TOP OF IT. NOW JENNIFER, CAN WE CONSIDER HIS PROPOSAL PIECEMEAL AND SAY WE'RE OKAY WITH THIS? NOT OKAY WITH THAT? OR DO WE HAVE TO DO IT UP OR DOWN? DREW, THERE'S NO PROBLEM IN DOING IT. YOU CAN DO A PIECEMEAL RIGHT. YOU CAN BREAK IT INTO PIECES. DAVE OFFERED, OFFERED HIS THREE THINGS. THEY'RE ASKING, YOU CAN SAY WE APPROVE ONE TABLE, ONE DO WHATEVER. I MEAN YEAH, YOU CAN ACT SEPARATELY ON EACH PARTICULAR ISSUE. LIST OUT FOR ME THE THINGS THAT WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT LIKE THAT WE'RE GONNA POSSIBLY BE. SO, SO THE LIST OF WHAT THEY'RE ASKING FOR IS SETBACKS. YEAH. TO 20 FEET. YEAH. UM, THE GO INTO THE PRESERVE AREA AND REMOVING THE TRAIL. SO THE PRESERVE, THOSE ARE THREE THINGS, RIGHT? THE SELECTIVE CLEARING IN THE, AT THE PERIMETER OF THE, OF THE PRESERVE. RIGHT. AND THE REMOVAL OF THE TRAIL HERE. THE REST OF THE TRAIL SYSTEM REMAINED, IT WAS JUST THROUGH THE TRAIL JUST HERE. BUT THAT'S THE TRAIL AND THE PRESERVE WERE PART OF THE CLUSTERING, RIGHT? YES. YEAH. THE TRAIL CONCEPT WAS, BUT THE, THE, THE, THE BIGGEST THING WAS PRESERVING THE TREES. WE THOUGHT THEY WERE BEAUTIFUL STANDARD TREES, RIGHT? NO, THOSE, THAT, THAT AREA IS BEAUTIFUL. LIKE FOR IT'S WELL MATURE. THE REGULAR LAYOUT WAS, YOU KNOW, TAKING ALL THE TREES DOWN AND BUILDING A NORMAL SUBDIVISION. BUT IT WAS A PATIO HOME SUBDIVISION INITIALLY TOO, RIGHT? IT WAS NOT. IT DID, YES. LARGE FAMILY HOMES. MR. CHAIRMAN, I'VE BEEN ASKED TO, FOR THE, FOR THE AUDIO RECORD FOR THE FOLKS THAT I'VE BEEN POINTING TO THE MAP AND TALKING ABOUT HERE, IF I WOULD HAVE A MORE DESCRIPTIVE ISSUE OF WHERE THE TRAILS WERE THAT WE WERE JUST TALKING ABOUT WITHIN THE MAP. SO THE, THE TRAIL SYSTEM WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE, IT REMAINS FOR THE, THE PERIMETER OF PHASE ONE AND WHERE WE WERE TALKING ABOUT WAS ON THE PERIMETER OF PHASES TWO, THREE, AND FOUR ALONG THE EXTERIOR PERIMETER OF THE ENTIRE DEVELOPMENT ALONG THE, SO WEST BOUNDARY, THE NORTH WEST BOUNDARY. AND THE NORTH BOUNDARY IS, IS THE SECTION OF TRAIL SYSTEM THAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT. FOR THOSE THAT CAN SEE IT IS JUST THIS AREA HERE. EVERYTHING ELSE REMAINS AS ORIGINALLY, AS ORIGINALLY APPROVED AND, AND PRESENTED. DREW, WHEN DID WE GET AWAY FROM THE PATIO HOME? WELL, WE DIDN'T, WHAT PART THE DEVELOPER DID, AND, AND AGAIN OF THE CONCEPT OF THIS, THEY STARTED JUST BUILDING LARGE SCALE TWO STORY HOMES OUT THERE. AND THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT GAVE, I MEAN THEY MET THE REQUIREMENT. THEY GAVE, THEY GAVE IT KNOWING THAT THE PEOPLE WERE GONNA HAVE VERY SMALL BACKYARDS WITH, BUT STEVE, STEVE THINKS THEY GAVE HIM THE PERMIT AND SAID, HEY, THAT'S WHAT THE PEOPLE WANT. THEN THEY KNOW THEY HAVE NO, NO BACKYARDS. OKAY, SO HELP, WHICH WAS NOT DAVID HOLMES BACK. NOPE, THAT'S FINE. BUT HELP ME OUT FOR A MINUTE. I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND JUST SO WE CAN LEARN TO DO BETTER, RIGHT? LIKE, YOU KNOW BETTER, YOU DO BETTER. WE HAVE OTHER CLUSTER PROJECTS COME IN FRONT OF US FROM TIME TO TIME. IF THEY SAY THEY'RE GONNA BUILD, SAY A 2,500 SQUARE FOOT HOME YEP. AND THEN YEARS FROM NOW, THE COMMUNITY'S DEMANDING 3,500 SQUARE FOOT HOMES, THEY CAN CHANGE. YES. THE LESSON LESSON LEARNED THERE OKAY. IS THAT WE SHOULD PUT A RESTRICTION ON AND SAY IT'S LIMITED TO THESE SIZE UNITS. SO WE CAN DO THAT THOUGH THEY DIDN'T DO THAT. OKAY. WE PROVED IT AS A PATIO HOME. WE JUST THOUGHT, RIGHT. HEY, IS PATIO HOME DEVELOPMENT, THEY'RE GONNA BUILD PATIO HOMES OUT THERE. RIGHT. YOU KNOW, AND THEY STARTED BUILDING LARGE TWO STORY SINGLE FAMILY HOMES. I'M JUST THINKING LIKE, NO BETTER, WE DO BETTER NEXT TIME. RIGHT. AND I'M TRYING TO FIGURE OUT, COME IN FRONT OF US NUMEROUS TIMES. SO, OKAY. AND THE, THE CODE REVIEW COMMITTEE HAS TALKED ABOUT THIS AND WHAT CODE ENFORCEMENT SUGGESTED, AND I THINK WE WILL PROBABLY IMPLEMENT SOME TIME, IS WE'RE GONNA COME UP WITH A PERCENTAGE IN THE CLUSTER DEVELOPMENTS AND THE, THE, THE BUILDING WON'T BE ABLE TO EXCEED A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF [02:05:01] THE LAND. SO THAT WAY IF THE CLUSTER HAS SMALL LOTS, IT WILL HAVE TO BE A SMALL HOUSE BECAUSE IT WON'T, WON'T BE ABLE TO EXCEED. WE HAVEN'T COME UP WITH WHAT THE PERCENTAGE WOULD BE IF IT'S 50% OR 60 OR, I MEAN, IT'S REALLY NOT EVEN A BAD IDEA FOR LARGER DEVELOPMENTS. 'CAUSE HAMBURG IS A LITTLE MORE ON THE RURAL SIDE OF LIFE AND IT MAY BE NICE TO MAINTAIN SOME OF THAT GREEN SPACE. ALSO, WE HAD TALKED TO CODE, OR THE ROGERS TALKED ABOUT, UM, INCREASING THE MINIMUM LOT SIZE FOR CLUSTER RIGHT. FROM 5,000 TO 10,700 OR SOMETHING, SOMETHING LARGE. SO, SO YEAH, WE'VE HAD THESE PROBLEMS AND WE'RE GONNA TRY AND CODIFY SOLUTIONS TO IT. SO WE DON'T HAVE THEM EVER AGAIN. BUT THIS SUBDIVISION HAS BEEN AROUND FOR 20 YEARS NOW. SO IF THIS DEVELOPMENT WAS ORIGINALLY DESIGNED FOR PATIO STYLE HOMES AND WE'VE SEEN A LOT OF PROPOSALS FROM PATIO STYLE HOMES COME BEFORE THIS PLANNING BOARD, THERE APPEARS TO BE A DEMAND FOR THEM. IS THERE A REASON THAT THE HOMES BEING MARKETED NOW ARE TARGETED TOWARDS LARGER DEVELOPMENTS AND LARGER HOMES AND NOT TOWARDS THOSE SMALLER SIZE HOMES? PATIO HOMES AREN'T THAT SMALL. IF YOU LOOK AT THEM, WHAT THEY TYPICALLY DO IS THEY REORIENT THE HOME SO THAT IN A PATIO, HOME DEVELOPMENT, RATHER THAN HAVE A HOUSE, THAT IS WHAT YOU TYPICALLY SEE IN A CONVENTIONAL SUBDIVISION. THE HOME THAT IS WIDER AND SHALLOWER AS THE RECTANGLE, IF YOU WILL, IT IS TURNED 90 DEGREES. SO THE PORTION THAT FACES THE STREET IS NARROWER AND THE HOME IS DEEPER, BUT THEY'RE NOT SMALL AND ADDED HOMES ARE NOT SMALL AT ALL. IT'S, THEY'RE FAIRLY GOOD SIZE THESE DAYS. TYPICALLY THOUGH, YOU KNOW, IN, AGAIN, IN, IN THE CONTEXT OF YOUR CONCERN FOR FUTURE DEVELOPMENTS. AND I'M CERTAINLY NOT GONNA BE THE ONE THAT'S SO, UM, BOLD AS TO SUGGEST HOW YOU SHOULD WRITE YOUR CODES AND DO YOUR TOWN. I THINK YOU'RE DOING THE RIGHT THING THE WAY YOU'RE, YOU'RE LOOKING AT THESE THINGS. BUT I WILL TELL YOU THAT IN A LOT OF JURISDICTIONS, PATIO OWNED DEVELOPMENTS ARE APPROVED AS, AS A COMBINATION REALLY OF A, A SITE PLAN AND A REALTY SUBDIVISION. MM-HMM . SO THE SITE PLAN ELEMENT IS, AS YOU WELL KNOW, SUBDIVISION IS, IS SOMETHING THAT SHOWS YARDS AND YOU'VE GOTTA MAKE SURE THE YARDS COMPLY WITH THE CODE, AND THEN THE HOUSES HAVE TO FIT WITHIN THE REQUIRED YARDS. BUT THE STRUCTURE ISN'T WHAT'S PARTLY APPROVAL WHEN YOU DO A SITE PLAN, WHETHER IT BE FOR A PATIO HOME OR AN APARTMENT BUILDING OR A SHOPPING CENTER. THE BUILDINGS THEMSELVES ARE WHAT IS PART OF THE APPROVAL. AND THOSE SETBACKS ARE, ARE REGULATED BY THE SITE PLAN THAT SETS THOSE DIMENSIONS BASED ON THE BUILDING, THE PLANNING BOARD MEMBERS. ARE WE COMFORTABLE VOTING ON SOME OF THIS, ALL OF IT, UM, TODAY? OR WHAT ARE WE LOOKING AT? IF THIS SETBACK 20 FEET DOESN'T MAKE A DIFFERENCE, I'M, I'M OKAY WITH THAT. OKAY. SO YOU'RE OKAY WITH THAT PART? UM, ARE YOU OKAY WITH MAKING A DECISION ON THE OTHER PARTS? REMOVE THE TRAIL. REMOVE THE TRAIL, DOESN'T BOTHER ME. OKAY. I MEAN, I THINK HE'S MORE ASKING, ARE YOU WILLING TO VOTE? ARE YOU WILLING TO VOTE? YEAH. I'M NOT SAYING WHETHER YOU'RE OKAY WITH IT OR NOT. YOU, YOU'RE ASKING ABOUT CAR I JUST TOLD YOU. RIGHT? ARE YOU WILLING? SO, DENNIS, DID YOU WANNA SAY SOMETHING? I, I THINK YOU WERE, WERE TALKING, BUT WE'RE MUTED. WELL, IT WAS JUST, I KNOW A LOT, A LOT OF THE 20 TO 25 WAS FOR PARTIES WHERE THE CARDS ARE BLOCKING THE SIDEWALKS. UH, BUT I KIND OF GO ALONG WITH PLATELETS. HOW MANY TIMES WE'RE GONNA CHANGE, UH, THE SITE PLAN. I MEAN, IT'S A SITE PLAN AND WE STICK WITH IT. SO, BUT I, YOU KNOW, I DON'T CARE. WE CAN VOTE NOW OR WE CAN VOTE LATER. ALRIGHT. SO LET'S, UH, I WOULD SAY WE NEED TO SEPARATE EACH INDIVIDUAL ITEM AS A VOTE. YEAH. LET'S, LET'S DO THAT RATHER THAN, UM, SO LET'S START WITH THE 20 FOOT, THE CHANGE OF THE SETBACKS FROM 25 FEET TO 20 FEET. UH, CAN WE, IF YOU ARE PUTTING THIS CONDITION ON, CAN WE CONDITION IT THAT WE'RE NOT GONNA, THAT THAT CAN'T CHANGE AGAIN? I MEAN, THAT WE CAN'T READJUST THE SETBACK A THIRD TIME FOR THIS CLUSTER DEVELOPMENT. WE CAN'T GO LESS THAN 20. YEAH. WELL, I DON'T, I DON'T THINK WE CAN BIND THE FUTURE PA UH, PLANNING BOARD IF THEY COME BACK. EVEN IF WE SAY YOU CAN'T CHANGE IT AGAIN, THEY COULD COME BACK IN 10 YEARS AND THAT NEXT PLANNING BOARD COULD SAY, NO WAY. WE'LL CHANGE IT IF WE WANT. THE, THE CODE RIGHT NOW SAYS THEY CAN'T GO CLOSER THAN 20. RIGHT? RIGHT. THAT'S RIGHT. SO, SO THEY WON'T, THEY WON'T BE ABLE TO GET ANY CLOSER. AND I MEAN, THAT THEY WOULD NEVER BE ABLE TO GET A VARIANCE TO GO CLOSER THAN 20, WOULD THEY? RIGHT. AND IT, AND IT WOULDN'T LOOK RIGHT EITHER. I, I THINK THAT'S WHAT I THINK SHE'S MEANING KAITLYN'S, WONDERING, LIKE, ARE THEY GONNA, ARE YOU WORRIED THAT THEY'RE GONNA GO CLOSER [02:10:01] TO THE ROAD OR THEY'RE GONNA COME BACK AND GO FARTHER AWAY AGAIN? OR BOTH? BOTH. I GUESS I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THAT IF SOMEONE'S REALLY GONNA TRY AND DO A CLUSTER DEVELOPMENT, THAT IT'S THE WHOLE GOAL OF A CLUSTER DEVELOPMENT IS THAT IT'S GOING TO HIT A CERTAIN VIBE, HAVE A CERTAIN TYPE OF COMMUNITY, HAVE CERTAIN TYPES OF AMENITIES, AND BE DONE HOLISTICALLY. I GUESS I'M JUST CONCERNED THAT THERE'S BEEN ONE DEVELOPER, THEN ANOTHER DEVELOPER THINKS GOING ONE WAY. THERE'S BEEN A COUPLE CHANGES. WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE IS THAT IF THE CLUSTER IS GOING, THAT THE CLUSTER GOES FORWARD AND ISN'T KIND OF BEING INCREMENTALLY A ADJUSTED, THAT, THAT IN MY MIND IS NOT THE POINT OF CLUSTER. I, I CAN PROMISE YOU I WILL NOT COME BACK AND ASK TO MAKE IT BIGGER AGAIN. RIGHT. BUT, BUT YOU WEREN'T HERE LAST TIME, SO NO, NO. SO IT'S GONNA BE SOMEBODY ELSE TO COME BACK. I'M DUMBFOUNDED THAT ANYONE WOULD COME IN AS A DEVELOPER AND ASK TO PUSH IT BACK BECAUSE THE CODE FOR SETBACK IS THE MINIMUM. RIGHT. THERE'S NOTHING THAT STOPS ME FROM BUILDING A HOUSE AT 25 IF I WANT TO. WHY WOULD I ASK THAT YOU MEMORIALIZE THAT? IF I HAVE THE FLEXIBILITY TO GO 20, WHY A DEVELOPER WOULD DO THAT IS BEYOND ME. IT MAKES ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE. SO I, YES, I CAN TELL YOU WITH ALL SURETY THAT IF YOU PUT IT BACK TO THE CODE, I WILL NOT BE BACK ASKING YOU TO MOVE IT BACK TO 25. THERE'S NO REASON TO DO THAT. WELL, I THINK THE LAST TIME THE DEVELOPER AGREED TO IT, THEY WERE ALSO GETTING THE CUL-DE-SACS. LIKE THERE WAS A LITTLE RIGHT, BUT THE CULDESACS ARE ALL 20. RIGHT? RIGHT. BUT THEY WENT FROM THE HORSES SHOOT TO THE CUL-DE-SACS THE LOT. RIGHT. BUT THEY LEFT THE 20 FOOT SET PICK AROUND THESE, THESE ARE, THAT'S THE ONLY AREA IN HERE THAT STILL HAS, HASN'T BEEN BUILT YET. THAT STILL HAS 20. THEY DIDN'T PUSH THESE TWO. HOW MANY LOCKS HAVEN'T BEEN BUILT? UH, WE HAVE TWO HERE. TWO ARE UNDER CONSTRUCTION HERE. AND FROM HERE OUT, NONE OF IT'S BEEN BUILT. ALRIGHT. THE ROAD IS INTO HERE. THIS IS IN, THIS IS IN, NONE OF THESE HOMES HAVE BEEN BUILT. ALL OF THESE ARE IN. OKAY. SO I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO ALLOW, OH MY GOODNESS. WE'RE STILL IN NUMBER ONE. OH, YEAH. WE LONG LINE, I APOLOGIZE. I MAKE A MOTION WILL ALLOW DAVID HOLMES TO AMEND THEIR SETBACKS IN THE WATERFORD PINES SUBDIVISION FROM 25 TO 20 FEET. YES, SIR. MOTION BY MR. CLARK. SECOND BY MR. MAHONEY. UH, ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. AYE. AYE. ANY OPPOSED? AYE. OKAY, AL. WAIT, IS HE SAYING AYE, HE'S OPPOSED, OR AYE. YEAH, HE IS SAYING, AYE. HE'S OPPOSED. I'M OPPOSED. YEAH. UM, AL CAN YOU UNMUTE YOURSELF? UH, YOU MUTED HIM. I KNOW. YEAH. I MIGHT HAVE TO UNMUTE IT BECAUSE I, SORRY. THERE'S JUST A LOT OF FEEDBACK FROM YOUR, YOUR END THERE. AL CAN DO THAT OLD ROMAN THING. RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND IF YOU WILL. . OH, CAN I NOT UNMUTE? DENNIS HAS ALWAYS GOT COMMENTS. UNMUTE HIMSELF. MM-HMM . ALRIGHT. MIGHT HAVE TO UNMUTE HIMSELF. I CAN'T DO IT FROM HERE. THERE. NOPE, THAT DIDN'T DO IT. AL. TELL HIM TO RAISE HIS RIGHT HAND IF HE, IF HE, IF HE THUMBS UP FOR IN FAVOR OF IT. THUMBS DOWN FOR OPPOSED. OKAY. TWO OPPOSED. OPPOSED. ALRIGHT, SO, SO THE, THE REQUEST TO AMEND THE SETBACKS PASSES FIVE TO TWO. UM, NEXT ITEM THAT THEY WANTED US TO CONSIDER WAS THE, DO WE WANNA CALL THAT AREA THE PRESERVE? THE PRESERVE TO, UH, TO GO INTO THE PRESERVE TO REMOVE TREES? UM, I WILL MAKE, I GUESS LACK OF A BETTER WAY TO DO IT. I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO ALLOW DAVID HOLMES TO GO INTO THE PRESERVE AT WATERFORD. PRIMES TO REMOVE THE TREES. SO, MOTION BY MR. CLARK. SECOND BY MR. SHAW. UH, ALL IN FAVOR? ANYONE IN FAVOR OF THAT ONE? IT WAS NOT TO CLEAR CUT. IT WAS FOR SELECTIVE CLEARING, RIGHT? IT WAS FOR SELECTIVE CLEARING. WE UNDERSTAND THAT. OKAY. ALL OPPOSED? I I'M OPPOSED TO THAT. OPPOSED? OPPOSED. OPPOSED. OKAY. SO THAT ONE, UM, WE DO NOT AGREE WITH. THE THIRD AND FINAL REQUEST WAS TO REMOVE THE WALKING PATHS ALONG THE OUTSIDE OF THE AREA THAT HASN'T BEEN BUILT YET. UH, SO I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO ALLOW DAVID HOLMES NO. BEFORE, BEFORE WE MAKE THE MOTION, I WANNA CLEAR ON SOMETHING WE'RE DOING AWAY WITH PART OF THE WALKING PATH, CORRECT? RIGHT. [02:15:01] THE, THE, THE MOTION WOULD BE TO DO AWAY WITH THE WALKING. WALKING. SO IF YOU SAY YES, YOU'RE, YOU AGREE WITH IT, YOU'RE OKAY WITH THE WALKING PATH BEING GONE. IF YOU OPPOSE IT, YOU WANT IT TO STAY THE WAY IT IS. WAS THAT A QUALITY LIFE ISSUE? THEY THIS OR WERE THEY COMPOSED IT? UM, I THINK THAT'S FOR US TO DECIDE IN SOME WAYS THE WALKING PATH WAS PART OF THE CLUSTERING OR WAS THE PATH OF RECREATIONAL. DID YOU GET A SECOND BILL? UM, I DON'T THINK I FINISHED MAKING THE MOTION. SO I MADE A MOTION TO ALLOW DAVID HOLMES TO REMOVE THE WALKING PATH ON THE OUTSIDE OF WATER FROM PUNS. OKAY. SO MOTION BY MR. CLARK, SECOND BY MR. SHAW. ALL IN FAVOR? AND OPPOSED ALL BE OPPOSED TO THAT. OKAY. WHAT DID AL, AL WAS OPPOSED. SO THE SETBACKS WERE ALLOWED TO CHANGE FIVE TO TWO. UM, WE UNANIMOUSLY SAID NO IN AS FAR AS GOING INTO THE PRESERVE AND UNANIMOUSLY SAID NO TO REMOVING THE PATH. I THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. ALRIGHT, YOU TOO. THANK YOU. OKAY, NEXT ITEM ON THE AGENDA IS A PUBLIC HEARING FOR CHICK-FIL-A REQUESTING SITE PLAN APPROVAL OF A NEW RESTAURANT BUILDING TO BE LOCATED AT 3 4 6 4 MILE STRIP ROAD. A I'M SORRY, BUT I'M GONNA MUTE YOU AGAIN. YOU GET A LOT OF FEEDBACK ON YOUR SIDE FOR SOME REASON, OR DO YOU WANNA DO IT SO WE CAN SO IT'S EASIER TO UNDO IT. THAT'S BE WORKING. RIGHT. ALL RIGHT. SO ANYTHING NEW SINCE WE WERE HERE LAST? YEAH. SO GOOD EVENING ONCE AGAIN FOR THE RECORD. SEAN HOPKINS, ROLL HOPKINS, GEORGIA MCCARTHY ON BEHALF OF THE APPLICANT, CHICK-FIL-A INC. ALSO WITH ME IS TIM FRY TAG, PROJECT ENGINEER FROM WARE ENGINEERING AS WELL. ASLIN MATSON, UM, FROM CHICK-FIL-A ITSELF. AS YOU RECALL, WE PRESENTED THIS PROJECT TO YOU MOST RECENTLY DURING YOUR MEETING TWO WEEKS AGO. WE DID SCHEDULE A PUBLIC CHAIR THIS EVENING. WE DO WANNA NOTE SEVERAL THINGS IN CONNECTION WITH THAT MEETING. TWO WEEKS AGO, YOU ALSO DID AUTHORIZE THE COMMENCEMENT OF A COORDINATED ENVIRONMENTAL REVIEW PURSUANT TO THE STATE ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY REVIEW ACT. UH, SARAH DID MAKE A REFERRAL TO THE ERIE COUNTY DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENT PLANNING, WHICH APPLIES OF COURSE, BECAUSE WE'VE BEEN 500 FEET ABOVE THE STATE HIGHWAY COUNTY HIGHWAY ON MAY 6TH. I DON'T BELIEVE YOU'VE RECEIVED A RESPONSE YET, RIGHT? NO. AND THEN ALSO WE THANK HER FOR DOING THIS. SIGN OUT A LEAD AGENCY LETTER WITH COPIES OF PLANS TRAFFIC IMPACT STUDY WERE APPROPRIATE TO A WIDE ASSORTMENT OF INVOLVEMENT INTEREST AGENCIES. SO THE EXPIRATION DATE ON THAT LEAD AGENCY REQUEST IS MORE OR LESS JUNE 11TH, JUNE 11, JUNE, JUNE 12TH. I DON'T BELIEVE ANY COMMENTS HAVE BEEN RECEIVED YET. TO THE EXTENT WRITTEN COMMENTS ARE RECEIVED BACK FROM ANY OF THE INVOLVED OR INTERESTED AGENCIES, WE'LL MAKE SURE WE ADDRESS THOSE PROACTIVELY. THE SITE ITSELF, AS YOU RECALL, IS 4.11 ACRES IN SIZE INCLUDES THE RAIN WAR AND FLANAGAN, FORMERLY TOYS R US THERE. AND BASICALLY WHAT WE'RE DOING IS WE'RE PROPOSING ON AN AT LEASE PARCEL, WHICH CONSISTS OF APPROXIMATELY 0.62 ACRES OF A CHICK-FIL-A WITH A DRIVE THROUGH FACILITY. THE BUILDING ITSELF, WE'LL HAVE APPROXIMATELY 5,000 SQUARE FEET. WE ARE SHOWING KNOWING CHICK-FIL-A DOES A LOT OF BUSINESS THROUGH THE DRIVEY FACILITY. 35 ONSITE STACK SPACE ON ONSITE STACKING SPACES. UM, AS TIM INDICATED PREVIOUSLY THAT CHICK-FIL-A REALLY HAS STATE-OF-THE-ART IN TERMS OF DRIVE-THROUGH FACILITIES. SO THOSE WILL BE WELL MANAGED. WE ALSO DID SUBMIT A TRAFFIC IMPACT STUDY. GOOD NEWS ABOUT THIS PROJECT IS WE'RE NOT PROPOSING ANY NEW CURVE CUTS ONTO EITHER MCKINLEY OR MILES STRIP. WE DID SUBMIT FULLY ENGINEERED PLANS, BUT TAMMY WAS TIMED UP TO PROVIDE US WITH THREE COMMENTS A COUPLE OF DAYS AGO, KIM AND AS A TEAM DID ADDRESS THOSE. SO WE'RE HOPING YOU'RE IN A POSITION THAT YOU COULD CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING THIS EVENING AND THEN THAT SCHEDULE DECISION DATE FOR YOUR NEXT MEETING OR SCHEDULE A DECISION DATE FOR YOUR SECOND MEETING IN JUNE. SO THEN WE KNOW, UH, THAT THE LEAD AGENCY PERIOD HAS EXPIRED AND YOU WOULD HOPEFULLY BE IN A POSITION TO APPROVE THE PROJECT. OTHER THAN THAT, THE PROJECT REMAINS IDENTICAL TO WHAT WE PREVIOUSLY PRESENTED YOU, [02:20:01] UM, AT YOUR MEETING TWO WEEKS AGO. OKAY. YOU HAVE ANYTHING YOU WANNA ADD, KIM? AND OF COURSE WE WELCOME THE OPPORTUNITY TO ADDRESS ANY QUESTIONS YOU MAY HAVE. OKAY. ANYONE ON THE PLANNING BOARD HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS PROJECT BEFORE WE OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING? I HAVE TWO I THINK ARE FAIRLY, HOPEFULLY QUESTIONS. THE FIRST IS, WHAT SHOULD YOU INCORPORATE IN TERMS OF, UH, CROSSING TO GET FROM THE BUS STOP? IT'S OVER THERE AT THE CORNER, UM, OVER THE DRIVE LANES. WE TALKED ABOUT THIS A COUPLE MONTHS AGO, AND THE SECOND WAS WHAT WAS THE SOLUTION ON THE SNOW STOCKPILING AND THE FLOW OF TRAFFIC WHERE THAT WAS ENGINEERING 17 COMPUTER DRIVE WEST ALBANY. UH, TWO QUESTIONS HERE. ONE WAS THE CONNECTIVITY TO THE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY, SIDEWALK AND BUS ROUTE. WE'RE PROPOSING A CROSSWALK FROM THE MAIN ENTRANCE CROSSING THE DRIVE THROUGH A SIDEWALK CONNECTION OUT TO THE STREET. WE'RE DOING THIS AT A POINT WHERE VEHICLES ARE TYPICALLY STOPPED, YOU KNOW, IN THE DRIVE THROUGH AND TRAVELING SLOW, WE'LL HAVE APPROPRIATE PEDESTRIAN CROSSING NOTICES 20 FEET IN ADVANCE OF THAT CROSSWALK. SECOND QUESTION, WITH SNOW STORAGE ON THE SITE. THE SITE TODAY IS, UH, A PAVED PARKING LOT. WE'RE INCREASING GREEN SPACE AS PART OF THIS PROJECT. SO THE SNOW STORAGE AREA FOR THE FACILITY IS INCREASING. CHICK-FIL-A'S DRIVE THROUGH WILL BE PLOW TO THE PERIMETER GREEN SPACE AREAS. THE REST OF THE SHOPPING CENTER WILL BE PLOWED TO THE PERIMETER OF THE BUILDING AS IT DOES TO THAT. IT ALREADY THIS WAY. NOW THIS HAS STACKING FOR 35 VEHICLES, THE CHICK-FIL-A AND CHIA. HOW MANY STACKING SPACES DOES THAT HAVE? THERE ARE TWO FACILITIES IN CHIA. ONE IS IN WALTON AVENUE, AND THE SECOND INTERSECTION OF TRANSIT, MOSEN, THIS WILL BE TH THE THIRD STORE TO THE BUFFALO MARKET. WALDEN AVENUE HAS STACKING CAPACITY FOR 24 VEHICLES. WHAT THIS SITE HAS INCORPORATED TO IT, THAT THAT SITE DOESN'T, IS A FULL SECOND LANE DRIVE THROUGH THAT ALLOWS US TO REALLY MAXIMIZE OUR STACKING CAPACITY UP TO 35 SPACES IN THIS DRIVE THROUGH THE TRANSIT LOSS AND FACILITY HAS 20 STACKS, SO CONSIDERABLY MORE. AND THE OTHER THING OBVIOUSLY, CHICK-FIL-A, UM, ENCOUNTERS IN MARKETS IS OBVIOUSLY EACH TIME YOU OPEN A NEW STORE, YOU DECREASE THE DEMAND IN YOUR EXISTING STORES. IT MAKES SENSE, RIGHT? WHEN YOU HAVE ONE LOCATION IN WEST NORTH THAT THAT IS THAT POPULAR. AS YOU OPEN MORE AND MORE STORES, YOU'RE GONNA START SPREADING THAT CUSTOMER BASE. WITH IT BEING SAID THAT, OF COURSE THIS IS FOR SOUTHTOWN RESIDENTS, BUT TO THE EXTENT THERE ARE ALREADY INDIVIDUALS FROM HAMBURGER NEARBY COMMUNITIES THAT ACTUALLY TRAVEL TO CHIA FOR THAT FOOD, THEY WILL NOW COME WITH A CLOSER LOCATION. WHAT'S UNIQUE ABOUT THIS SITE IS, YOU KNOW, WE'RE PART OF A FOUR ACRE SITE NOW. CHICK-FIL-A IS USUALLY ON A STANDALONE ACRE PARCEL. WALDEN AVENUE IS I THINK, SLIGHTLY BELOW AN ACRE. AND THERE'S NO ROOM FOR ALL OVERFLOW HERE. WE HAVE A SHARED PARKING LOT WITH OVER 200 SPACES DURING THE PEAK HOUR, WE CAN, WE CAN OVERFLOW PARKING AND STACK GOT THIS ADDITIONAL CAPACITY HERE. WHATEVER STARTED BACKING UP IN MILE SCRIPT, WE COULD MAKE ACCOMMODATIONS TO STACK ELSEWHERE ON THE SITE AND NOT INTERFERE WITH PUBLIC. RIGHT. THAT BEING SAID, DO YOU HAVE A PLAN FOR WHEN THAT OCCURS? BECAUSE I'M ASKING, BECAUSE I'VE BEEN TO THE TRANSIT ROAD, WE OVER TO THAT AREA SEVERAL TIMES NOW. PROJECT IS IN FRONT OF US AND WALDEN, THEY'RE STACKING INTO NEIGHBORING PARKING LOTS. TRANSIT IS STACKING INTO THE WHITEMAN'S PARKING LOT AND THEN OUT ONTO THE ADJOINING ROADWAY AND WALDEN IS STACKING INTO THE MALL OR THE HOTEL PARKING LOT AND THEN INTO THE ADJOINING ROADWAY. WHAT IS THE PLAN? IF YOU REALLY, IF YOUR GAME PLAN IS REALLY TO USE THE REST OF THAT PARKING LOT, WHAT IS THE PLAN? LIKE, HOW ARE YOU GOING TO IMPLEMENT, HOW ARE YOU GONNA DIRECT CARS THAT, HOW ARE YOU GONNA PREVENT THEM FROM CREEPING OUT ONTO MILES? IT WOULD BE, IT WOULD BE EXTREMELY DANGEROUS FOR THEM TO SIT ON MILE TRIP AND WAIT FOR THEIR CHICKEN SANDWICH. THAT'S RIGHT. SO, UM, WHAT CHICK-FIL-A UTILIZES AS TEAM MEMBERS OR EMPLOYEES ON SITE TO HELP DIRECT TRAFFIC DURING THOSE PEAK HOURS IF THOSE PEAK HOURS OCCUR? SO THEY WOULD UTILIZE TEAM MEMBERS UPSTREAM IN THE DRIVE THROUGH TO KEEP CARS MOVING FORWARD. IF THEY STARTED TO BACK UP IN HERE, WE WOULD START USING, UTILIZING THESE DRIVE MILES AND DIRECTING TRAFFIC AND RENTING AROUND DRIVE. SO ARE THOSE RESIDENTS OR IS THAT OTHER FACILITY AWARE THAT YOU ARE PLANNING ON MONOPOLIZING THE PARKING LOT WHEN THE PACKAGE, THE STAFFING GETS SEVERE? LIKE, ARE THEY AWARE THAT THAT MAY IMPACT THEIR ABILITY TO GET CUSTOMERS IN AND OUT OF THEIR STORE? YEAH, THEY'RE, THEY'RE CERTAINLY AWARE THERE'S A LEASE IN PLACE AND THERE WILL BE RESERVED PLACEMENTS. YES, THEY'RE WELL AWARE OF THE PROJECT AND THEY'RE WELL AWARE OF WHAT THEY'RE AGREEING TO. OBVIOUSLY [02:25:01] THEY'RE LOOKING FORWARD TO HAVING SOME REDEVELOPMENT ON THE SITE. KEEP IN MIND, THIS SITE WAS IN BANKRUPTCY WITH TOYS R US. THERE WAS LITERALLY NOTHING THERE. THERE WAS A VACANT SITE WITH NO ACTIVITY. SO, AND STEP FORWARD. I ALSO JUST WANNA POINT OUT ONE OTHER THING. THE POINTS ARE GOOD IN TERMS OF STACKING, BUT KEEP IN MIND JUST TO HEAR, IF YOU COMPARE THIS TO THE ONE ON WASON AND CHIA, WE HAVE 75% MORE STACKING. SO IT IS, IT'S A BIG INCREASE COMPARED TO THOSE OTHER LOCATIONS. THIS ONE IS ALSO RIGHT OFF OF THROUGHWAY. THE ONLY OTHER ONE THAT'S RIGHT OFF OF THROUGHWAY IS THE ONE IN THE GALLERIA AREA. THAT'S RIGHT. THE ONE ON THE WALL. THE WALDEN. THE WALDEN, THE WALDEN AREA IS ACTUALLY FOR THE TRAFFIC COUNTS DAILY IS HIGHER. RIGHT. SO THIS IS STILL A VERY GOOD SITE COURSE. AND THEN DO WE HAVE A PLAN IN PLACE FOR WHEN THERE ARE EVENTS AT THE STADIUM? BECAUSE THERE WILL BE STATE TROOPERS PARKED, STATIONED AT THAT INTERSECTION DIRECTING TRAFFIC. BUT DOES CHICK-FIL-A HAVE EXPERIENCE OR DO THEY HAVE A PLAN IN PLACE FOR WHEN IT'S AN OVERWHELMING CRUSH OF PEOPLE IN THAT AREA? YOU MIND ON WHEN THE BILLS PLAY CHICK-FIL-A'S CLOSED? MM-HMM . BILL'S PLAY ON SATURDAY. WE PLAY ON MONDAY NIGHT. YEAH. NOT VERY OFTEN. THERE'S OTHER EVENTS THOUGH. LIKE, LET'S JUST BE REALISTIC. THERE'S OTHER EVENTS THAT GO ON AT THE STADIUM. I JUST, YEAH, YEAH. I MEAN OBVIOUSLY WE, WE TALKED ABOUT HOW THE EMPLOYEES WILL BE THERE AND TO THE EXTENT THEY NEED ADDITIONAL EMPLOYEES OUTSIDE TO DECREASE THE INTERACTION WITH EACH CUSTOMER. THEY'RE, THEY'RE GOING TO DO THAT. AND THE OPERATORS WHO ARE VERY HANDS-ON WITH LOC, MUNICIPALITIES AND POLICE ENFORCEMENT. SO THEY HAVE EXPERIENCE OF BEING BUYING MAJOR PROFESSIONAL STADIUMS. ABSOLUTELY. THEY'RE IN THE GEORGIA DUMP. THEY HAVE, THEY HAVE, YOU KNOW, 3000 SITES ACROSS THE STATE AND DEAL WITH THOSE TYPES OF EVENTS DAILY. I THINK OUR CONCERN IS JUST, WE'VE SEEN THE TRAFFIC IN THE SITES THAT ARE LOCAL. YEAH. AND WE'D LIKE TO MAKE SURE THAT THOSE TWO ROADS, WE CAN'T, ONCE IT'S HERE, WE CAN'T DO ANYTHING TO MITIGATE THE TRAFFIC IMPACT. SO WE'VE GOTTA MAKE SURE WE DO EVERYTHING WE CAN AHEAD OF TIME. FAIR ENOUGH. ABSOLUTELY. UNDERSTOOD. AND THOSE GAMES ARE GONNA AFFECT EVERYBODY IN THIS CORRIDOR, RIGHT? IT'S GONNA BE IN HARMONY WITH, WITH UM, STARBUCKS ACROSS THE STREET AND ALL THE OTHER DRIVE THROUGH USES. EVERYBODY SEES THAT FLUSH. SO WORKING WITH LOCAL TRAFFIC CONTROL OR CONTROLLING THOSE GAMES IS IMPORTANT. THAT'S SOMETHING THAT, YOU KNOW, CHICK-FIL-A ALWAYS TRIES TO DO. IF THEY EVER ENCOUNTERED TRAFFIC THAT STARTS TO AFFECT THE RIGHT AWAY. I THINK THIS, THERE'S PROBABLY ALSO A LITTLE BIT OF A HEIGHTENED SENSITIVITY ON, AT LEAST FOR ME, ON A ING SPACE. MM-HMM. UH, AS MR. HAWKINS COULD TELL YOU, THERE WAS A PROJECT BEFORE US OVER ON CAMP ROAD RECENTLY WHERE WE HAD AN UNSPECIFIED USER THAT CAME IN AND NOW THAT, THAT, THAT'S A TARBUCKS AND THAT QUEUING SPACE DOES NOT APPEAR TO BE ADEQUATE. I'VE DRIVEN NEST A COUPLE TIMES IN THERE. CARS BASICALLY ALL THE WAY TO THE ROAD. SO WE JUST REALLY WANNA MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE A GOOD UNDERSTANDING OF PLAN. AND THE GOOD NEWS HERE IS ON UNLIKE THAT SIDE, I THINK THAT IF THERE IS A CONTINGENCY PLAN FOR BENDING VEHICLES BACK INTO THE SITE OR THROUGH THE PARKING LOT, YOU KNOW, IT'D BE GOOD TO BE AWARE OF THAT OR HAVE A, A GRAPHIC OR SOMETHING THAT DEMONSTRATES THAT. BUT THERE, THERE'S DEFINITELY A CREATED DRIVETHROUGH ISSUE AND HOPEFULLY THAT WILL BE REDUCED AFTER COVID PASSES MORE IN-STORE. BUT THERE'S DEFINITELY A DEMAND TAXES. IS THIS PROPERTY OWNED OR LEASED? LEASED LEASED. LONG TERM LEASE PLAN, AGAIN IS THE ANCHOR AND THE OWNER AND CHICK-FIL-A HAS OTHER PROJECTS AND OPEN STORES WITH RAYMORE PLAN AGAIN. SO THEY'RE AWARE OF, OF THE, SO CAN WE GET SOMETHING IN WRITING FROM THE LAND OWNER THAT THEY'RE AWARE OF THE OVERFLOW PLAN? LIKE I GUESS I JUST DON'T WANNA GET IN KAITLYN'S POSITION WHERE WE'RE TALKING WITH, WE HAVE THEM COMING BACK AS AFTER THIS IS OPENED AND THIS ISN'T WHAT THEY AGREED TO EITHER. LIKE YEAH, I, I CAN REPRESENT THEY AGREED TO IT. I'VE REPRESENTED RAY WARREN FLAG FRONT OF THIS BOARD. THEY'RE VERY SMART OF THIS PROJECT. SO IF WE CAN MAKE THAT REPRESENTATION, THEY'RE WELL AWARE AND THERE'S AGREEMENTS IN THE LEASE FOR THE SHARED PARKING AND OVERFLOW BECAUSE UTILITIES, WE HAVE NO ACCESS DIRECTLY TO THE LEASE AREA. RIGHT. SO THERE'S SHARED ACCESS AGREEMENTS ACROSS BOTH ACCESS DRIVES THAT INCLUDE, YOU KNOW, THE STACK. YEAH. MEANING, MEANING OUR VEHICLES TO GET TO THIS SITE, WHETHER IT FITS THE STACKING OR COME TO THE CUSTOMER PARKING, THEY HAVE TO CROSS THEIR PROBLEM. NO, I THINK WE HAVE A CONCERN ABOUT THE TRAFFIC AND ABOUT STAFF. AND YOU'RE SAYING YOUR PLAN CONTINUOUSLY PLAN IS THE OVERFLOW INTO THE SHARED CARBON SPACE? I THINK I WOULD FEEL MORE COMFORTABLE KNOWING THAT THE LEASE AGREEMENT IS REFLECTING THAT SO THAT WE DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM LATER ON WHERE THEY WERE UNAWARE THAT THIS WAS THE PLAN THAT WE AGREED TO. YEAH. LET'S LET, LET'S, LET'S DO THIS. I THINK THIS IS THE BEST WAY TO SOLVE. WE'RE NOT GONNA GO BACK AND RENEGOTIATE THESE. I KNOW THEY'RE NOT GONNA DO THAT, BUT LEMME REACH OUT TO RAY MOORE AND FLANAGAN, MAKE SURE THEY'RE AWARE OF IT. CFO PUT SO IN WRITING SAYING THEY UNDERSTAND FROM TIME AND TIME THERE COULD BE BOARD OF DEMAND STAFF. AND I THINK, WOULD THAT SOUND RIGHT? YEAH. I JUST, I DON'T WANT OUR PLAN TO BE SOMETHING THEY'RE UNAWARE [02:30:01] OF THAT THEY'VE AGREED TO. THAT'S FINE. WE CAN DO THAT. I JUST WANNA MAKE CLEAR THEY'RE VERY SUPPORTIVE OF THIS PROJECT. NO, THAT'S GREAT. I JUST, I THINK IT'S MAKING SURE THAT EVERYBODY, WE HAVE IT, ALL THE DUCKS LINED UP. OKAY. WE, WE WANNA MAKE SURE THAT THERE'S NEVER A CAR STOPPED ON MCKINLEY. YOU DON'T WANT A CAR WAITING FOR CHICK-FIL-A. RIGHT, RIGHT. OR OR ON OR ON, YEAH. ON MCKINLEY OR . FAIR ENOUGH. UM, OKAY. ANYTHING ELSE BEFORE WE OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING? ALRIGHT, THE NOTICE? YEP. THANK YOU. NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN THAT THE TOWN OF HAMBURG PLANNING BOARD WILL CONDUCT A PUBLIC HEARING ON A REQUEST BY CHICK-FIL-A TO CONSTRUCT A NEW RESTAURANT BUILDING IN FRONT OF 3 4 6 4 MILE SHIP ROAD. THE PUBLIC HEARING WILL BE HELD ON MAY 19TH, 2021 AT 7:00 PM IN ROOM SEVEN B OF HAMBURG TOWN HALL. OKAY. AT THIS TIME I'LL OPEN UP THE PUBLIC HEARING. UM, THERE IS ONE COMMENT ON FACEBOOK. TREVOR KIN SAYS, ON BEHALF OF RAYMORE AND FLANAGAN, WE SUPPORT THIS PLAN OF USE. UM, WE DID GET AN EMAIL BEFORE THE PUBLIC HEARING, UH, THE PERSON DIDN'T LEAVE THEIR NAME, EMAIL ADDRESS IS PUGH EIGHTY6@VERIZON.NET. UH, THEY ECHO A LOT OF THE SAME CONCERNS ABOUT THE DRIVE THROUGH STACKING AND COMPARISONS TO, TO WALDEN. UM, SO THOSE ARE COMMENTS WE'VE ALREADY RECEIVED. ANYBODY HERE THAT YOU HAVE ANOTHER COMMENT? YOU HAVE ANOTHER ONE. OH, OKAY. UH, LIGHTS AND SIGNS SHOULD BE LOW TO THE GROUND. YEAH, THAT'S, I MEAN, OUR NEW SIGNAGE LAW REQUIRES MONUMENT SIGNS. SO WE WOULDN'T HAVE A ONE OF THOSE POLE SIGNS THAT IS, IS UP HIGH AT THE GROUND. IT'S, THAT'S, UH, IT WOULDN'T BE ALLOWED TO DO THAT ANYMORE IN, IN HAMBURG. SO, UM, SO ANYBODY HERE THAT WANTED TO SPEAK ON THE CHICK-FIL-A PROJECT? CHICK-FIL-A TOO? OKAY. SAY YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD, PLEASE. STREET WHAT STREET? MILFORD. OKAY. UM, IS A HOUSEWIFE WHO DOES ALL MY SHOPPING IN THIS AREA. UM, THOSE PLAZAS THAT ARE IN THAT AREA ARE ALREADY A TRAGIC PROBLEM. AND NOW YOU'RE GONNA PUT THIS IN THERE. UM, I SEE A PROBLEM AT INTERSECTION. I CAN JUST SEE 10 YEARS FROM NOW. US NEED TO EXPAND IT BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GONNA GO ON WITH THAT MALL AREA. IT'S NOT, IT DOES SEEM LIKE IT NEEDS SOME MORE LANES. IT DESIGNATED RIGHT. TURNING LANE ALONG WITH THE STRAIGHT LANES AND THE TURNING LANE. IT'S A PROBLEM. NONE OF US LIKE SHOPPING OVER THERE NOW. AND YOU'RE GONNA ADD THIS IN THERE. UM, WE'RE GONNA START ALSO BECOMING A TRANSIT ROAD WALL IN AREA, SHERIDAN DRIVE, AREA. DO WE REALLY WANT THAT FOR HAMBURG? PEOPLE ARE MOVING HERE BECAUSE OF ITS UNIQUENESS AND IT'S LESS TRAFFIC THAN NORTHTOWNS. AND NOW WE'RE DOING EXACTLY WHAT THEY'RE DOING UP THERE. AND AS FAR AS, UM, THE WATSON ROAD ONE AND LIVE OVER THERE, THEY SHOP AT REDMONDS. IT'S A PROBLEM SEVEN DAYS A WEEK FROM THERE. JUST SO YOU KNOW. AND IT'S BEEN OPEN FOR TWO YEARS. CHICK-FIL-A HAS THE MONEY TO BUILD ON A BIGGER SPOT. THEY DON'T NEED TO STICK IT IN THAT PARKING ALL. THANK YOU. UM, ANYONE ELSE HAVE ANY COMMENTS ON THE CHICK-FIL-A PROJECT FOR THE SECOND TIME? ANY OTHER COMMENTS ON CHICK-FIL-A? SO, FOR THE THIRD AND FINAL TIME, ANY COMMENTS ON CHICK-FIL-A? UM, SO YOU WANTED TO COME BACK ON THE SECOND MEETING IN JUNE? YES. I WILL LEAVE THE PUBLIC HEARING OPEN UNTIL THEN BECAUSE WE DID GET A FEW COMMENTS ONLINE AND HERE IN PERSON. AND IT'S A BIT LESS THAN THE AMOUNT OF COMMENTS I KIND OF EXPECTED FOR A PROJECT OF THIS SIZE. SO I THINK THERE MAY, THERE MAY BE OTHER PEOPLE THAT WILL WANNA WATCH THIS LATER ON AND WEIGH IN. SO I WON'T CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING, BUT I WILL MAKE A MOTION TO TABLE CHICK-FIL-A TO WHEN'S THE SECOND MEETING? IN JUNE? 16TH. 16TH. SO I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO TABLE CHICK-FIL-A TO JUNE 16TH. SO IT'S A MOTION BY MR. CLARK. SECOND BY MR. [02:35:01] MAHONEY. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. AYE. ANYTHING ELSE NEEDED OTHER THAN THE REQUEST FROM MEGAN WITH RESPECT TO STACKING ON SITE? JUST WANNA MAKE SURE, BECAUSE IF THERE IS ADDITIONAL INFORMATION, WE MIGHT WANNA MAKE SURE WE GET TO ANY OTHER ADDITIONAL INFORMATION OTHER THAN THE SOMETHING FROM RAYMORE AND FLANAGAN SHOWING THAT THEY AGREED TO ADDITIONAL STACKING IN THAT PARKING LOT. THIS WAS ALL DOWNCAST, APPROPRIATELY SHIELDED LIGHT. I MEAN, I KNOW THIS IS A FAIRLY WELL LIT AREA ANYWAYS, SO THAT'S, YOU MAY NOT EVEN NEED ANY OF EXTERIOR LIGHTING, BUT THAT'S ALL DOWNCAST SHIELDED IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE CODE. YES. DARK SKY COMPLIANT. FULL PLAN SUBMITTED AS PART OF THE APPLICATION PACKAGE. NO SIGNAGE AS WELL. ALL RIGHT, THANK YOU. OKAY, SO WE WILL SEE YOU IN A MONTH. HAVE A GOOD EVENING. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. UM, I HAD AN URGENT REQUEST THAT WE TAKE A FIVE MINUTE BREAK BEFORE GOING ON TO THE NEXT ITEM. SO WE WILL DO THAT AND WE'LL BE BACK AT NINE O'CLOCK. NEXT ITEM, BILL. [02:42:52] POOR CAMMY'S. NEVER. I KNOW, I KNOW. CAMMY'S LIKE I'M GONNA GO BACK. YEAH. OKAY. SO IT'S AFTER NINE O'CLOCK, WE'RE GONNA COME BACK TO THE MEETING. NUMBER THREE ON THE AGENDA IS MIKE SCHULTZ REQUESTING PLANNING BOARD RE REVIEW OF A TOWING AND RECOVERY IMPOUND AREA AT 5 5 0 5 SOUTHWESTERN BOULEVARD. UM, WE HAVEN'T GOTTEN ANY UPDATES FROM THE APPLICANT. I DID. SO YOU DID? I DID. HE CALLED ME THE DAY AFTER THE, AFTER YOUR LAST MEETING AND ASKED TO, UM, BE PUT ON THE JUNE 2ND TO BE PUT ON JUNE 2ND. OKAY. SO, UM, LET'S MAKE A MOTION TO TABLE MIKE SCHULTZ TILL JUNE 2ND. SECOND. OKAY. MOTION BY MR. CLARK. UH, THERE'S NOT A SIGN. I KNOW. I'M SORRY. SECOND BY . OH, I WAS, I WAS GONNA SAY AUGGIE. GRASSI. OKAY. UM, SECOND BY I SAYS COME AFFIRM. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE AYE. AYE. I'M GONNA SHARE. NOTHING GOOD HAPPENS IF YOU'RE NOT O'CLOCK AGAINST I SOFTBALL JERSEY. A COME AFFIRM ON THE BACK. OKAY, NUMBER FOUR ON THE AGENDA IS DAVID MANKO REQUESTING PRELIMINARY PLAT APPROVAL OF A 67 LOT SUBDIVISION TO BE LOCATED ON THE WEST SIDE OF PARKER ROAD. SO DO WE HAVE ANY UPDATES FROM THE PLANNING BOARD SUBCOMMITTEE ON THIS? YES. UM, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU WANTED TO LET THE APPLICANT ATTORNEY UPDATE THEY HAVE FIRST, BUT, UH, JENNIFER DID CIRCULATE SOME NOTES THAT WE WANTED TO RUN THROUGH, UM, ON SOME OF THE QUESTIONS THAT WE THINK WEREN'T DISCUSSION ON, UH, ON THE MAKE DIVISION. OKAY. SO THERE'S ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS THAT WEREN'T DISCUSSION AND JENNIFER WAS GONNA GO THROUGH THEM. JENNIFER BOARD? NO, EVERYBODY, SHE FORWARDED THEM, THEY SHOULD HAVE GONE OUT LAST FRIDAY TO THE MEMBERS OF THE BOARD AS A, AS A WORK WORK PRODUCT FOR CONSIDERATION FOR DISCUSSION PURPOSES SO PEOPLE COULD BE THERE. OKAY. [02:45:01] WHICH I'M SURE YOU'VE READ ALL THE NOTES OF ALBA LAKES. YEP. MAY 14TH. GOT IT. THAT'S BECAUSE IT WAS UNREAD . ALL RIGHT. SO, UH, AND WE SENT SOME QUESTIONS TO THE APPLICANT AT THE LAST MEETING. DO WE HAVE UPDATES ON THOSE? WELL, SO WHAT WE WERE, GOOD EVENING. ONCE AGAIN, SEAN HOPKINS ON BEHALF OF THE APPLICANT, DAVID MANKO, WHO'S ALSO HERE THIS EVENING, AS WELL AS CHRIS WOOD, THE PROJECT ENGINEER FROM CARMINA WOOD MORRIS AS WELL AS NEARBY RESIDENTS. UM, WHAT WE WERE WAITING TO DO IS WE WANNA MAKE ONE COMPREHENSIVE SUBMISSION. I HEARD KAITLYN MENTIONED THERE'S SOME ADDITIONAL COMMENTS THAT ARE GOING AROUND. SO I GUESS I THINK IT'S PROBABLY EASIEST IF YOU GET US OR WHOEVER'S GONNA GET US THE FINAL LIST OF EVERYTHING AND THEN RESPOND ALL AT ONCE. I WELCOME INPUT ON THAT, BUT I JUST THINK IT'S PROBABLY GONNA BE EASIER BOTH FOR KEEPING AN EYE ON WHAT'S GOING ON AND THEN ALSO FOR RECORD KEEPING PURPOSES. SO BILL, CAN I JUST INTERRUPT REAL QUICK? ABSOLUTELY. UH, GO TO THE SOCIAL DISTANCING AND THEY'RE ALL CLUSTERED TOGETHER THERE. OKAY. RIGHT. OH, SO, SO DENNIS, WHAT THAT'S ABOUT IS WE, WE'VE HAD A LOT OF PEOPLE COMPLAINING THAT, THAT THEY HAVEN'T GOT A CHANCE TO SPEAK. SO DURING THE BREAK, I BEING THE PUSHOVER, I AM, I TOLD THEM I LET ONE OF THEM SPEAK FOR 30 SECONDS AND I, I THINK THAT'S WHAT THAT ASSEMBLY IS. SO, UM, BUT UM, JUST MAKE SURE IF YOU'RE NOT VACCINATED, THAT YOU FOLLOW THE CORRECT PRECAUTIONS AND SOCIAL DISTANCE PLEASE. SO LEMME GIVE ONE PERSON SPEAK TO ALL OF THEM, CORRECT? RIGHT. JUST ONE PERSON BECAUSE IT'S NOT A PUBLIC HEARING AND IT'S ALREADY LATE, SO WE'RE IN AGREEMENT ON THAT. SO WE'LL WAIT TILL WE GET EVERYTHING, THEN WE'LL RESPOND AT ONE TIME TO MAKE SURE EVERYONE'S OKAY. YEAH. SO, SO I GUESS I, I I, I DON'T KNOW THAT WE HAVE SPECIFICALLY A, A SLEW OF QUESTIONS, BUT I THINK WHAT WE WOULD LIKE TO, UM, SUBCOMMITTEE WENT THROUGH THE PART TWO OF THE FEAF, UM, FOR BOTH THE, THE MANCO PROJECT AND THEN THE NEXT ITEM ON THE AGENDA. AND AS WE DISCUSSED AT THE LAST MEETING, YOU FLAGGED SOME ITEMS THAT WE THOUGHT WERE POTENTIALLY LARGER ISSUES OR BIGGER CONSIDERATIONS THAT WE WANTED TO RAISE HERE. BRING THOSE UP NOW. OKAY. SO THAT THEY WERE BEING TRANSPARENT. AND I THINK IT WOULD BE, UH, IF, IF YOU'RE COMFORTABLE AND MOST COMFORTABLE, I COULD RUN THROUGH THAT LIST. SO YOU, SO YOU'RE GONNA GO THROUGH THE ONES THAT THE SUBCOMMITTEE BELIEVES WILL HAVE A POTENTIALLY LARGE IMPACT. CORRECT. MODERATE OR LARGE? MODERATE OR LARGE. YES. SO WHAT WE HAD CIRCULATED WAS A LIST. DID YOU PRINT THAT OUT, DOUG? IS THAT WHAT YOU GOT THERE? YES. ON THAT EMAIL, ONE WORD DOCUMENT. I DON'T OPEN IT OUT. I'D JUST LIKE TO BE FOR THE RECORD THAT, UH, I, I JUST, UH, DISAGREE WITH MOST OF THE ONES THAT ARE CHECKS. HOW ABOUT WE DO IT THIS WAY? SHE'LL, SHE'LL GO THROUGH THE LIST AND THEN YOU, YOU, YOU SAY YOU DISAGREE. YEP. PER HER ONE. OKAY. YEAH, AND I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE HAD ASKED IS THERE WERE LINKS WE HAD ASK THAT EVERYBODY GO TO THE WORKBOOK. UM, THERE WERE FOR PART TWO FOR THE FULL FDAF. IF WE HAVE LINKS, WE GET SPECIFIC QUESTIONS. SO I THINK IT'S WORTH WARRANTY. THERE ARE SOME OF THESE, I RECOGNIZE THAT DOUG MAY DISAGREE WITH THE MODERATE OR LARGE, BUT JUST BECAUSE IT'S MODERATE OR LARGE AS UH, YOU GET TOLD OFTEN BY DREW DOESN'T MEAN IT'S SIGNIFICANT. SOME OF THESE, THEY ARE CHECKED AND THERE ARE FACTORS THAT I DON'T THINK WARRANT ADDITIONAL INVESTIGATION, BUT THERE ARE SOME THAT WE WANTED TO RAISE NOW IN TERMS OF WHETHER OR NOT THE APPLICANT DOES HAVE ANY ADDITIONAL INFORMATION THEY WANNA PROVIDE TO GO INTO THE SIGNIFICANCE. UM, SO THE FIRST ONE THAT WE CHECKED AS MODERATE TO LARGE WAS JUST, UM, THAT THE PROJECT MADE ALL CONSTRUCTION THAT CONTINUES OVER MORE THAN ONE YEAR OR MULTIPLE PHASES. IS THERE A COPY THAT WE CAN, UM, THIS IS A WORKING SHIFT HARD FOR US TO KEEP NOTES ON THIS, BUT DON'T HAVE THE DOCUMENT. I, WE ARE RAISING THIS FOR DISCUSSION. THAT'S NOT A DOCUMENT THAT IS CONSIDERED A FINAL WORK PRODUCT. OKAY. WE ARE RAISING WHAT WE IDENTIFIED AS CONCERNS. IF YOU WANNA, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU HAVE A COPY OF PART THROUGH THE FEA APP, BUT THAT CARRY, I WOULD RUN THROUGH THAT. THIS IS NOT TO BE CONSIDERED ANY SORT OF DELIVERABLE BY THE NO, I UNDERSTAND. I UNDER, I UNDERSTAND THAT IT'S NOT A FINAL PRODUCT. I GET THAT. I WAS JUST GONNA, SO I CAN TAKE NOTES. THAT'S FINE. I NEEDED, THAT'S NOT FROM HER. DREW JUST HANDED TO ME A BLANK VERSION. THAT'S FINE. OKAY. OKAY. SO WE GOT ONE E, ONE E AND THE PROJECT MAY INVOLVE CONSTRUCTION OVER ONE YEAR. [02:50:01] I THINK THAT THIS IS NOT NECESSARILY A SIGNIFICANT IMPACT, BUT WE'VE ACKNOWLEDGED THAT IT MAY ACCEPT CONSTRUCTION FOR ONE YEAR. SO THIS IS ONE AND DENNIS AND MEGAN CHIME IN ANYWHERE YOU, YOU, YOU DISAGREE. UM, THE SECOND ONE, UM, ONE F AS I NOTED ON THE WORD DOCUMENT WAS ONE OF THE ONES THAT THE CONSERVATION ADVISORY BOARD HAS RAISED AS A CONCERN ABOUT, UH, PHYSICAL DISTURBANCE AND EROSION DISTURBANCE AND VEGETATION REMOVAL. UM, THAT'S ONE THAT HAS COME UP AS A CONCERN A COUPLE OF TIMES. AND THIS IS INCLUDING FROM FLAG, INCLUDING FROM TREATMENT OF, UH, HERBICIDES. AND IS THAT PARTIALLY BECAUSE THE FARM THAT WAS THERE MAY HAVE USED HERBICIDES THAT ARE IN THE GROUND AND THE CONSTRUCTION COULD DISTURB THAT? OR IS THAT SOMETHING DIFFERENT? UH, SO I THINK IT IS, THERE ARE SET, THERE ARE A COUPLE OF ISSUES THAT THE, THAT THE CAB HAS UH, RAISED. I THINK LEONA WAS GONNA ATTEND ON BEHALF OF THE CAB TONIGHT. THERE, SHE'S HERE THERE. OKAY. UM, SO SHE MAY BE ABLE TO SPEAK MORE, BUT I THINK THERE'S A COUPLE ISSUES. THERE'S JUST THE GENERAL EROSION AND TRUITY THAT'S COME UP WITH SOME TIMES ASSOCIATED WITH THE PHYSICAL DISTURBANCE, THE BEST MANAGEMENT PRACTICES, VEGETATION REMOVAL ON THE SITE IS NOT OF THE CONCERN. BUT THEN, UH, MARK IS NOT HERE, BUT MAYBE LEONA CAN SPEAK TO IT. THERE WAS A CONCERN RAISED, UM, BY HIM REGARDING AND THE CAB REGARDING DISTURBING AREAS OF PREVIOUSLY AFFECTED BY FERTILIZERS AND PESTICIDES AND THE POTENTIAL FOR THAT. WHY DON'T WE GO THROUGH OUR LIST AND THEN IF LEONA HAS ANYTHING TO ADD WE CAN EVER ADD. SO THAT'S ONE. I THINK THE MARK'S DISCUSSION NEXT TO SEVERAL OTHERS. HOLD ON. WHAT WAS THAT LEONA? HOW ABOUT IF I START WITH OUR MEMO, WHICH IS ESSENTIAL? WELL, HOW ABOUT WE GO THROUGH OUR LIST AND THEN IF THERE'S STUFF THAT IS IN THAT'S NOT ADDRESSED IN OUR LIST, IN YOUR MEMO, THEN THEN YOU CAN BRING IT UP. OKAY. PLEASE. HER MEMO DOESN'T, HER MEMO IS VERY, UM, BASIC. IT, IT DOESN'T LET YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE MEMO THAT YES, I'M NOT, I'M NOT PUT, I I DON'T FEEL LIKE WE ARE TOGETHER ENOUGH TO DISCUSS EACH ONE OF THE POINTS WE HAD ACCEPTED TO MEET WITH, UM, MR. HOPKINS. YES, MR. HOPKINS AND OUR, OUR MEETING TIME AND HIS MEETING TIME DIDN'T WORK OUT. OKAY. THAT PERSON IS NOW IN FLORIDA AND UM, WE ARE HOPING OUR MEMO ASKS, THE PA CAB ASKS THAT THE PLANNING BOARD TABLE FOR TWO WEEKS TO ALLOW THE CAB TO MEET WITH MR. HOPKINS AND KYLE ANSWERS TO THE QUESTIONS REGARDING THE PROPOSED MANCO AND RENTAL. RIGHT. WE'RE NOT GONNA DO A RESOLUTION TODAY, SO IT'LL COME BACK IN FRONT OF US AND, AND, UM, WE, WE SHOULD GO OVER OUR LIST INSTEAD OF JUST TABLING IT. BUT GO OVER YOUR LIST AND WE'LL AND YOU'LL COME BACK IN TWO WEEKS WITH YOUR STUFF. DISCUSS WITH MR. KIN. EVEN BETTER. LET'S GO. I WANNA MAKE CLEAR, I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE ONE, THOSE THERE'S NOT GONNA BE A DECISION THIS EVENING. WE ALL KNOW, DON'T WANNA MAKE SURE EVEN BETTER. AND WE STILL ARE INTERESTED IN MEETING WITH THE CAP. UNFORTUNATELY THEY MADE THEMSELVES AVAILABLE FOR SHORT NOTICE LAST THURSDAY. CHRIS AND I, NEITHER OF US COULD ATTEND IT BECAUSE WE HAD OTHER CONFLICTS. SO WE'LL FOLLOW UP. SO WE'LL GET TOGETHER AND HAVE A MEETING AND GO THROUGH EVERYTHING. SOUNDS GREAT. OKAY, SO I THINK WE ARE ON ITEM OH ON THREE K. THREE H. OH AM I SKIPPING AHEAD THREE H AND NO, I, I WANNA JUMP DOWN TO THREE H. SO IF YOU LOOK AT THE QUESTIONS ON THE DEC WORKBOOK, UM, WHICH I PROVIDED A LINK TO QUESTION THREE IN THAT IF YOU LOOK AT THREE H, UM, WHICH IS ABOUT THE PROPOSED ACTION MAY CAUSE FOR OTHERWISE DISCHARGE THAT MAY BE DIS OTHER DEGRADATION RECEIVE DEPOSIT. IT NOTES ON HERE THAT THE DEC IS SAYING THAT A SMALL IMPACT, UH, THERE'S FOUR BULLETS, UH, BUT THE SECOND BULLET IS LESS THAN ONE ACRE OF LAND IS SERVED AND NO FOCUS IS REQUIRED. OBVIOUSLY AS THE APPLICANT HAS STATED THAT WE ARE GONNA STORE MORE THAN MONEY FOR LAND AND THIS BOOK WILL BE REQUIRED. UH, THEREFORE WE HAVE CHECKED MODERATE TO LARGE IMPACT. THAT IS AGAIN, AT THIS POINT NOT NECESSARILY SAYING THAT WE ARE SAYING IT'S OF SIGNIFICANCE, THAT'S TO GO IN PART THREE, BUT THAT THAT IS A MODERATE TO LARGE IMPACT. AND I RECOGNIZE THAT BETWEEN, UH, MR. WOOD'S PROVIDED A NUMBER OF COMMENTS ON THE STORMWATER BEST MANAGEMENT PRACTICES, CANDY'S PROVIDED INFORMATION. I THINK THIS IS ONE THAT WE JUST NEED TO ADDRESS FROM WRITE UP IN PART THREE. ASSUMING THAT EVERYBODY IS UNCOMFORTABLE WITH, WITH THE MANAGEMENT MEASURES IN PLACE AND THAT THE CAB, IF THEY HAVE SPECIFIC MEASURES, I THINK THAT WARRANTS A DISCUSSION IN IN EVALUATION OF SIGNIFICANCE THAT MAY BE PUN FURTHER [02:55:01] DOWN THE LINE. SO I JUST WANNA BE CLEAR THAT WHEN WE CHECKED MODERATE TO LARGE, WE WENT ITEM BY ITEM THROUGH THE WORKBOOK TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE MATCHING THE DEFINITIONS RIGHT. SO I WAS ANOTHER ONE THAT WE IDENTIFIED AS MODERATE TO LARGE AS IT MAY AFFECT THE WATER QUALITY DOWNSTREAM. THIS IS AGAIN, ONE THAT THE CAB HAS RAISED AND THAT I THINK WE JUST NEED FURTHER DOCUMENTATION OF POSSIBLE SIGNIFICANCE. DOES IT MEAN ANYTHING THAT SOME OF THEM ARE HIGHLIGHTED IN YELLOW AND SOME ARE HIGHLIGHTED IN GREEN. GREEN IS CAB I STARTED GREEN IS CAB CONCERNS COLOR, BUT THE GREEN WAS ORIGINALLY BE THE CAB. SO I AND J WERE ALSO ISSUED. YES. YOU SAY I AND J BECAUSE I WE DON'T HAVE THIS DOCUMENT. ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT THREE I AND THREE I AND THREE, THREE I THREE HI AND J PART TWO OF THE EA DO YOU WANT A HIGHLIGHTER? YES. YEAH, I KNOW. I'M ACTUALLY MARK, I'M OKAY. THANK YOU THOUGH. YEAH, AND AND I JUST BE CLEAR THERE IS NO OTHER WRITEUP OTHER THAN WE CHECKED SOME BOXES IN SOME PLACES THERE'S THERE'S NOT ANY RIGHT MAGICAL. SO YOU JUST IDENTIFY THINGS THAT YOU THINK HAVE UH MM-HMM COULD HAVE A POTENTIAL IMPACT. YES. SO FOUR IMPACT ON GROUNDWATER WE FLAGS AND NO IMPACT. IT DID NOT BOTH OF THE DETAILS. SAME WITH FIVE IMPACTS ON FLOODING BECAUSE THE QUESTIONS ARE SPECIFICALLY RELATED TO THE FLOODWAYS AND THE FLOODPLAINS. UH, IF ANYONE DISAGREES WITH THOSE, LET US KNOW. SIX IMPACTS ON AIR WAS ALSO CHECKED AS A NO, I'M, I'M REASONING THROUGH THESE. IS THERE ANY QUESTIONS TO THIS POINT ON, ON THE RATIONALE? BECAUSE I THINK THAT SOME OF THE MEAT OF WHAT WE'VE EVALUATED IN DETAIL COMES UP WITH THE NEXT, NEXT COUPLE. ALRIGHT, SO FAR, SO GOOD. KEEP GOING PLEASE. OKAY. I THINK THAT SEVEN WE HAVE CHECKED NO FOR RIGHT NOW ON MOST OF THESE ITEMS, UH, THERE ARE SOME AGRICULTURAL LANDS THAT HAVE BEEN CONSIDERED BY THE DEC TO BE GRASSLAND GREEN BIRD HABITAT, BUT THERE'S CURRENTLY NO VEGETATION. WE, WE'VE IDENTIFIED THAT AS A SMALL TO TO NO IMPACT. SO THAT ONE RIGHT NOW WOULD LIKE THE CAPTAIN'S INPUT IS NO FOR ALL OF THE ITEMS ON THAT. AND WE DID NOT IDENTIFY BECAUSE IT'S ACTIVE FARM FIELD. ANYTHING OTHER UNDER OTHER IMPACTS AT THIS TIME? EIGHT. THIS IS ONE I REALLY STRONGLY ENCOURAGE EVERYBODY ON THE PLANNING BOARD TO GO BACK AND LOOK AT THE WORKBOOK BOARD. WE DON'T DEAL WITH A LOT OF PROJECTS ON AGRICULTURAL RESOURCES. THERE ARE ITEMS A C, A D, A E AND A F THAT WE HAVE FLAGGED AS POTENTIALLY A MODERATE TO LARGE IMPACT. AND THE ONE IN PARTICULAR THAT WE WANTED TO FLAG FOR THIS GROUP IS EIGHT D, WHICH IS GOING TO BE THE IRREVERSIBLE CONVERSION OF AGRICULTURAL LAND TO NON-AGRICULTURAL LEASES. UM, IT'S, WE'RE NOT IN AN AGRICULTURAL DISTRICT, WHICH WOULD BE TWO AND A HALF ACRES, BUT BECAUSE THERE'S MORE THAN 10 ACRES, THAT FLAGS AS A MODERATE TO LARGE IMPACT. UM, SOME OF THESE OTHERS ARE, ARE ON THERE, BUT I DON'T THINK THE RELEVANT IF NECESSARILY IN THE INTENT. UH, A CI THINK IS MORE IF YOU ARE COMPACTING AN AREA OR OBSTRUCTING FOR ACTIONS THAT ARE STILL MAINTAINING ACTIVE AG LAND A PERTAINS TO THE DISRUPTION OR PREVENTION OF INSTALLATION OF THE AG MANAGEMENT SYSTEM, WHICH WOULD NOT BE RELEVANT TO THIS PROPERTY ANYMORE. BUT EIGHT FI THINK GETS TO THE OVERALL SUBDIVISION, UH, DEVELOPMENT IN THIS AREA. AND THEN CONTINUING DOWN PARKER ROAD WHERE THERE IS STILL OTHER, UH, WE GOT SOS ROLLING DOWN THE OTHER END WHERE THERE STILL ARE OTHER AG LANDS. UM, SO EIGHT D AND EIGHT FI THINK WARRANTS CONSIDERATION AND I THINK THAT A D WITH THE LIMITS POTENTIALLY DOES WARRANT A SIGNIFICANT AND LARGE IMPACT. SO THAT'S ONE THAT IF PEOPLE DON'T AGREE WITH, I THINK WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT IT. BUT I WOULD REALLY ENCOURAGE EVERYBODY TO PULL UP THE SPECIFIC REPORTING AND THE REQUIREMENTS. HOW MANY ACRES IS THIS PROJECT TOTAL? THIS ONE HERE? YES. 35. AND SO WELL, WELL OVER 10. IT'S OVER 10. WELL OVER 10. UH, WE BREEZE THROUGH A COUPLE OF THESE OTHERS. NINE WAS IMPACT ON AESTHETIC RESOURCES BASED ON THE CRITERIA HERE. THAT WAS NO 10. UM, WAS THE HISTORIC ARCHEOLOGIC RESOURCES. 10 B IS CHECKED AS YES BECAUSE IT WASN'T AN AREA DESIGNATED AS SENSITIVE FOR ARCHEOLOGICAL SITES. HOWEVER, I THINK UNDER THE SIGNIFICANCE STATEMENT THAT'S BEEN CLEARED BY SHIPPO. SO WHILE IT WAS [03:00:01] SENSITIVE, IT WAS SCREENED AND THERE ARE NO RESOURCES THERE. SO I DON'T THINK THAT THERE'S ANY THAT DOES NOT NECESSARILY WARRANT ANY FURTHER FOLLOW UP AREA IN THE STUDY. AND THAT'S BEEN, UM, SO WE DID CHECK, I DON'T KNOW THAT IT IT BECAUSE THE SITE WAS ALREADY CLEARED. WE DID CHECK SOME OF THE ITEMS UNDER 10 E, UM, BECAUSE YOU HAD TO, IF YOU WERE CHECKING MODERATE TO LARGE BASED THE DEFINITION, BUT I DON'T THINK BECAUSE THERE'S NO RESOURCES THERE THAT THAT'S PARTICULARLY RELEVANT. OKAY. SO ON 10 E THE SUB BOXES, WHICH ONES ARE WE SAYING? WHICH ONES DID YOU CHECK? UH, UH, WE DID ALL OF THEM TWO. WE DID THEM ALL. BUT I DON'T KNOW THAT THEY'RE RELEVANT I GUESS IS WHAT I, BECAUSE I THINK THOSE, SOME OF THEM, UM, I DID THE STUDY AND E THREE, I DON'T KNOW, YOU'RE CHANGING CERTAIN THINGS FROM AGRICULTURAL BUT BECAUSE THERE'S NO ARCHEOLOGICAL RESOURCES AND NO HISTORIC ARCHITECTURE SURVEYS WERE REQUESTED, I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT, OKAY. I DON'T KNOW THAT IT CONTRIBUTES TO SIGNIFICANCE I GUESS IF THAT MAKES SENSE. IT DOES. ON 11 IMPACT TO OPEN SPACE, WE WANTED TO GO BACK TO THE BROADER GROUP TO TALK ABOUT 11 D UM, ABOUT THE LOSS OF AN AREA NOW USED INFORMALLY BY THE COMMUNITY OF OPEN SPACE RESOURCE. SO THIS IS ONE WE WOULD WANT WEIGH IN ON, UM, FOR PEOPLE TO GO BACK AND THINK ABOUT. THE SNOWMOBILE TRAIL RAN THROUGH THIS AREA, WHICH WAS AN INFORMAL OPEN SPACE RESOURCE, BUT THAT'S BEEN REROUTED. SO THAT MAY NOT BE RELEVANT HERE. UM, AND IT WAS PREVIOUSLY ACTIVE AGRI, SO IT WASN'T NECESSARILY BY THE PUBLIC. UM, BUT THAT'S ONE THAT I, IT WAS A LITTLE BIT NEBULOUS. I I THINK THAT IT IS PROBABLY NO BECAUSE IT'S NO WHEELCHAIR WAS ROUNDED INDEPENDENCE OF THIS PROJECT. 12 WAS NO FOR ALL OF 'EM. UH, 13 WAS IDENTIFIED AS A, AS MODERATE TO LARGE BECAUSE OF THE DEGRADATION IN THE ROAD NETWORK RATINGS. WHICH AGAIN TIES BACK TO THE QUESTIONS IN THE WORKBOOK. THE, THE TEAM, I CAN BRING THOSE UP WHETHER OR NOT THERE ARE MITIGATING FACTORS THERE. UM, I GUESS THAT CAN BE OPEN TO THE DISCUSSION FOR PART THREE. AND THEN 13 E WE HAD IDENTIFIED AS IT WAS GONNA ALTER THE POTENTIAL MOVEMENT FOR PEOPLE IN GOODS, UM, AS MODERATE TO LARGE. BUT WHETHER OR NOT THAT'S SIGNIFICANT IS JUST GONNA CHANGE A LOT OF THE ACTIVITY WITH THE UM, 'CAUSE WE'RE ADDING SOME ADDITIONAL INTERSECTIONS AND, UH, ROAD PRODUCTIONS THAT TRIGGERS THE MODERATE TO LARGE BASED ON THE WORKBOOK. AGAIN, THAT MAY OR MAY NOT BE SIGNIFICANT. UH, 10 OR 10, SORRY, 14. ON 14 B WE DID SELECT MODERATE TO LARGE IMPACT BECAUSE THERE WERE GONNA BE MORE THAN 50 SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENCES. WE DIDN'T HAVE A WAY TO ANSWER 14 C BASED ON THE INFORMATION THAT WAS PROVIDED ABOUT THE MEGAWATT HOURS. I, WE CAN PROBABLY HAVE CALCULATED THAT. UM, SO WE DID NOT ANSWER THAT ONE. IF THE APPLICANT WANTED TO PROVIDE SOMETHING RELATED TO 14 C, HE DIDN'T HAVE THE INFORMATION THERE. AND THEN SAME WITH 14 D. UM, IT'S NOT A SINGLE BUILDING, IT'S MULTIPLE RESIDENCES. I GUESS. I DON'T THINK THE INTERPRETATION IS WHETHER OR NOT IT'S SPECIFICALLY APPLICABLE THERE. UM, SO THAT WAS A NEBULOUS ONE PERHAPS FOR, FOR DISCUSSION. AND THAT WOULD BE ON A HOUSE BY HOUSE BASIS. BUT 14 B IS MORE THAN 50. IT TRIGGERS THE THRESHOLD. DOESN'T 14 D APPLY? IF YOU LOOK BACK AT THE EAF FORM, THAT APPLIES ONLY TO COMMERCIAL I BELIEVE. I THINK THAT IT DOES ON PART ONE. AND THEN I THINK PART TWO WAS MORE CONFUSINGLY WORDED. OKAY. I THINK, UM, I, THAT'S WHY WE DIDN'T CHECK ANYTHING IN THERE. WE, I THINK THAT'S OPEN TO DISCUSSION. OKAY. UM, SO I, I WOULD THINK YES, I THINK IT GOT HOW IT, UM, 15 WE HAD NO, ACROSS ALL THE CATEGORIES, UH, WE DID RECOGNIZE UNDER 15 [03:05:01] B THAT OBVIOUSLY THE ACTION IS GONNA BE UM, NOT, IT'S NOT GONNA LASTING BUT WE ARE IN PROXIMITY TO OTHER THINGS. BUT THE USES , THE NOISE IS CONSISTENT WITH THE OTHER RESIDENTIAL AREA. AND WE DID NOTE, WHILE IT DOESN'T NECESSARILY APPLY TO THIS, BUT WE DID EVALUATE THE FACT THAT ECC HAS AN ENTRANCE ACROSS THE STREET, WHICH I BELIEVE IS LESS THAN 1300 FEET AWAY JUST FOR OUR PROPERTY. BUT THAT DOESN'T SEEM TO NECESSARILY RELEVANT FACTS. UH, YEAH THAT CAME ON 16. SO 16 WE WENT THROUGH SOME OF THESE I THINK TRIGGERED SMALL, BUT EVERYTHING WAS KNOWN AS SMALL IMPACTS. SO I DON'T THINK THERE WAS ANYTHING FURTHER TO EVALUATE ON 16 AND THEN WE DID NOT. UM, AS WE NOTED THE LAST MEETING, WE DID NOT GO TO 17 OR 18 COMMITTEE CHARACTER FOR THE COMMITTEE PLANS. WE WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT WAS A OPEN DISCUSSION. MM-HMM BUT I GUESS GOING THROUGH THAT WHOLE LIST, THE ONE THAT GAVE ME THE MOST HEARTBURN IN TERMS OF SIGNIFICANCE FOR THE ANSWERS ON EIGHT EIGHT D RELATED TO THE THRESHOLD SIZE OF IRREVERSIBLE COMPARED TO THE AGRICULTURE AND DESIGN AGRICULTURE SYSTEM BECAUSE WE TRIGGER THE THRESHOLD AND I DON'T KNOW THAT THERE'S NECESSARILY MITIGATING THE FACTOR THERE. WE EXCEEDED THE THRESHOLD AND IT IS WHAT IT IS. IT'S GONNA BE CONFIRMED. SO IT HAPPENS FAIRLY OFTEN THAT MORE THAN 10 ACRES ARE CONVERTED FROM FARMLAND TO SOMETHING ELSE. UM, ARE THERE SPECIAL THINGS THAT YOU THINK THAT WE WE'RE NOT DOING THAT WE SHOULD BE CONSIDERING IN THESE TYPES OF CIRCUMSTANCES? I THINK THE GOAL OF SEEKER, AND IT'S BEEN A LONG TIME, I'LL, I'LL ADMIT SINCE I WENT THROUGH THIS LEVEL OF DETAIL IN THE PART TWO AND ACTUALLY WENT THROUGH THE AND DENNIS AND MEGAN AND I HAVE HERE TOGETHER, THEY CAN WEIGH IN. UM, BUT IT, THE GOAL OF SEEKER IS NOT TO SAY THAT YOU CAN'T DO IT, IS TO APPROPRIATELY EVALUATE THE IMPACTS AND LOOK FOR EFFORTS TO, TO MINIMIZE AND ADDRESS THOSE IMPACTS. AND SO, BUT HOW DO WE, AND IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME THAT THAT FARMS, YOU KNOW, THERE'S LESS FARMS THAN THERE WERE AND IT GETS TURNED INTO SOMETHING ELSE. HOW DO WE ADDRESS AND MITIGATE THOSE IMPACTS? AND IS IT SOMETHING THAT WE HAVEN'T BEEN DOING IN THE PAST? UM, YOU KNOW, WHAT, WHAT OPTIONS ARE THERE FOR, I GUESS I DON'T HAVE AN ANSWER AND WAS INTERESTED TO HEAR WHAT THE APPLICANT WOULD WANT TO PROPOSE. WELL, SO I, I WOULD PROPOSE SEVERAL THINGS. NUMBER ONE, KAILYN'S CORRECT? IN TERMS OF CHECKING THE BOX, IT MEANS THAT THERE'S, IT WARRANTS ADDITIONAL DISCUSSION. DOESN'T MEAN NECESSARILY THAT SOMETHING HAS THAT'S CHANGED THAT IT'S A MITIGATION MEASURE OR REPRESENTS POTENTIALLY SIGNIFICANT AS VERSUS ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT. SO WHILE IT WILL BE THE LOSS OF THE EXISTING AGRICULTURE USE SITE, I WOULDN'T NOTE, AND I REALLY DO THINK THIS IS IMPORTANT TO KEEP MIND, IT'S NOT ZONED FOR THAT. IT'S A NON-CONFORMING USE MEANING. SO IF THOSE FIELDS WERE LEFT FALLOW FOR THE SUMMER OF 2021, IT COULD NOT BE USED AGAIN AS A FARM. I, I WOULD CORRECT THAT. I DON'T, I WOULD CORRECT THAT. WHY I AGREE WITH, FIRST OF ALL, YOU'D HAVE TO DEFINE IT AS DEFINITION OF FARMING PER STATE AG AND MARKETS. THE TOWN CANNOT RESTRICT SOMEONE FROM FARMING A PIECE OF PROPERTY, WHETHER IT'S IN AN AG DISTRICT OR NOT. BY ZONING. AG LAW SAYS FARMING IS PROTECTED UNDER, UNDER THE STATE OF NEW YORK. SO WHAT, WHAT I WOULD ARGUE IS THAT, IS THIS PROPERTY STILL DEFINED AS AGRICULTURAL LAND BY THE STATE OF NEW YORK? SO IS IT CONVERTING AGRICULTURAL LAND? IF IT'S LAID FALLOW FOR A CERTAIN TIME PERIOD HAS NOT BEEN USED FOR AGRICULTURAL LAND. IT WOULD NOT BE DEFINED AS BY THE STATE OF NEW YORK AS AGRICULTURAL LAND. AND BY THE WAY, CAITLYN, I THINK YOUR GROUP DID A GREAT JOB. I WENT THROUGH, I DID THIS TOO. I I, THIS IS ONE THING I DO A LOT OF. I DO TRAINING ACROSS THE STREET. I HELPED WRITE SOME OF THE MANUAL AND WHATEVER YOU DID YOUR JOB, THE, THE, THE THINGS THAT ARE NOTED ON THERE AS THE TOP OF THE DOCUMENT SAYS IT IS A THRESHOLD. IF YOU MEET OR EXCEED THAT THRESHOLD, YOU HAVE TO CHECK THE BOX MINOR TO LARGE. THEN WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO IS EVALUATE THAT. NOW FROM A STANDPOINT OF MITIGATION, THE APPLICANT HAS TO OFFER THE MITIGATION AND CHANGE THE PLAN. IF YOU'RE GOING THE ROOT OF A NEG DECK, YOU DON'T HAVE THE THE ABILITY TO CONDITION AND ADD MITIGATIONS TO THAT NEGATIVE DECLARATION. THE APPLICANT WOULD HAVE TO AMEND THE PLAN. SO THE NEXT STEP IS YOU'VE EVALUATED AND NOTICED THESE MODERATE TO LARGE IMPACTS. ONE OF THE THINGS YOU'RE ALSO GONNA [03:10:01] DO IS DO THE SAME THING. AND I'M SURE YOU'RE GONNA DO IT FOR THE WETZEL PROJECT AND THEN IDENTIFY THOSE THINGS THAT ARE POTENTIALLY MODERATE TO LARGE THAT MAY HAVE A SYNERGISTIC OR CUMULATIVE IMPACT. AND WE'LL HAVE TO DO A FURTHER ANALYSIS IF THERE'S SOMETHING THAT'S RELATED TO CUMULATIVE. SO YOU'VE IDENTIFIED THOSE THINGS, OBVIOUSLY SOME OF THOSE THINGS THAT YOU'VE CHECKED BOXES ALREADY. THE APPLICANT'S ALREADY SUBMITTED INFORMATION, YOU STRUGGLED WITH THE, THE ARCHEOLOGICAL, WELL THEY'VE ALREADY SUBMITTED STUFF. SO YOU'RE GONNA CHECK THAT BOX BY SAYING OKAY, IT'S POTENTIALLY MOD TO LARGE IMPACT BUT THEY'VE GOT A SIGN OFF LETTER FROM CHIP BOAT, THEREFORE IT IS NOT SIGNIFICANT. CROSS THAT ONE OFF THE LIST. RIGHT. SO I THINK YOU'VE DONE A GOOD JOB WITH THE FIRST ONE. I DON'T THINK YOU'VE MISSED ANYTHING. THERE WAS AN INTERPRETATIONAL ISSUE ON THE AGRICULTURAL ERROR ON THE CONSERVATIVE SIDE. YOU CHECKED THE BOX MARKED TO LARGE AND LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT IT. LET'S SEE IF IT'S ACTUALLY AGRICULTURAL USE AND WE'LL BE DEF DEFINED AS AGRICULTURAL USE. SO, UM, I DO A LOT OF WORK WITH AGRI MARKETS RIGHT NOW ON THE ISSUE OF AGRICULTURAL LANDS. IT'S NOT IN AN AG DISTRICT. WE HAVE TO LOOK AT WHETHER IT'S ACTUALLY BEEN FARMED. HAS IT BEEN FARMED IN THE LAST FIVE YEARS? YES, IT'S ACTUALLY IN GOOD. AND THEY, AND THEY, AND ONLY BECAUSE WE ALLOWED THEM TO DO IT, YOU KNOW, REALLY AT NO COST WE WERE ASKED. AND I WANNA KEEP IN MIND JUST SO, SO IT IS CONVERTING AGRICULTURAL LAND BY THE WAY, ONE OF THE THINGS YOU'RE GONNA LOOK AT, SORRY SEAN. ONE OF THE THINGS YOU'RE GONNA LOOK AT IS, IS THAT IN THE PLAN OF THE TOWN, IS THAT AN AGRICULTURAL AREA OF THE TOWN THAT THE TOWN IS PLANNING ON HAVING OR LOOK AT THE COUNTY'S AGRICULTURAL PROTECTION PLAN ABOUT, IS THIS AN AGRICULTURE THERE SEAN? I'M SORRY, GO AHEAD. YEAH, SO I WANT TO POINT OUT ONE THING. IT IS STILL BEING USED FOR AGRICULTURAL PURPOSES. WE EXTENDED THAT COURTESY 'CAUSE WE'RE REQUESTED. IT'S NOT GENERATING ANY REVENUE WHATSOEVER. I ALSO WANNA MAKE CLEAR, AND I JUST LEARNED THIS TODAY, UM, NO HERBICIDE HERBICIDES OR PESTICIDES HAVE BEEN USED BY THE EXISTING AGRICULTURAL OPERATIONS FOR 16 YEARS, WHICH IS GOOD NEWS. IT'S BEEN ORGANIC FARMING. AND THEN TO FOLLOW UP ON, UH, THE COMMENT PREVIOUSLY, I JUST WANNA MAKE YEAH, CAN YOU, CAN YOU PROVIDE THAT I GUESS IN A LETTER FROM THE LANDOWNER OF SOME SORT OF DOCUMENTATION OF THAT WILL FILE? YEAH, WE CAN. MR. MANKO IS COPY THE YES, MR. MANKO IS SHAKING HIS HEAD YES, WE CAN DO THAT. AND THEN FINALLY, I JUST WANNA KNOW, I WANNA MAKE IT CAN ON THAT, WHAT'D YOU SAY? CAN YOU COPY THE CAB ON THAT WHEN IT COMES IN? BECAUSE THAT I'M GONNA COPY YES. AND THEN FINALLY I WANNA KNOW, I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THIS IS CLEAR AND I THINK DREW WAS IN AGREEMENT JUST BECAUSE SOMETHING IS CHECKED AS MODERATE OR LARGE IS NOT THE SAME AS IT BEING POTENTIALLY SIGNIFICANT. AND THE CASE LAW ON THAT IS VERY CLEAR. I'M NOT GONNA START CITING CASES, BUT, SO THEY'RE NOT ONE IN THE SAME. I THINK WE'RE ALL IN THE SAME POSITION IN TERMS OF THE QUESTIONS HAVE BEEN CHECKED AS MODERATE OR LARGE ADDITIONAL INFORMATION AND ADDITIONAL ANALYSIS AS NEEDED. SO, AND WE DO APPRECIATE THE EFFORT THAT'S BEEN MADE BY THAT SUBCOMMITTEE TO TAKE THE TIME TO DO THAT. YOU CAN SEE IT IS A LOT OF WORK. YEAH, NO, AND I, I, I, YOU KNOW, WE HIT THE OFF SAYING, YOU KNOW, THERE'S THREE PARTS OF THIS. YOU KNOW, WE OFTEN, ESPECIALLY WITH THE SHORT FORM, YOU KNOW, WE GO THROUGH THIS STUFF QUICKLY AND PART, WE'VE GONE THROUGH PART TWO HERE. THIS IS A BIG PROJECT. THERE'S A LOT OF INTEREST ON IT. I THINK, YOU KNOW, DOUG HAS SOME CONCERNS ABOUT WHAT SOME OF WHAT WAS CHECKED. I THINK IT WOULD BE GOOD FOR EVERYBODY TO GO BACK THROUGH PART TWO TO LOOK AT THE WORKBOOK AND FOR US TO KIND OF COME INTO AGREEMENT. MAYBE WE CHECKED NO ON SOMETHING THAT YOU'RE, YOU DON'T AGREE WITH. BUT I THINK IT WOULD BE WORTHWHILE FOR EVERYBODY TO COME IN AND IF THEY DISAGREE WITH ONE OF THESE IMPACT RATINGS, NOT JUST BECAUSE THEY DON'T THINK THEY IMPACT SIGNIFICANT, BUT IF THEY DISAGREE WITH IT TO, TO LET US KNOW AND FOR US TO WORK THROUGH IT AND FOR PEOPLE TO COME BACK TO THE NEXT MEETING WITH THEIR THOUGHTS ON 17 AND 18 ON COMMUNITY CHARACTER AND CONSISTENCY WITH PLANS SO THAT WE CAN TALK ABOUT THAT BECAUSE WE ARE READING THOSE FOR THE GROUP. AND THEN AFTER WE AGREE ON WHAT WE'RE CHECKING, WE CAN MAKE SURE THAT WE PULL TOGETHER PART THREE AND DETERMINE THE SIGNIFICANCE, BECAUSE SOME OF THESE, AGAIN, ARCHEOLOGICAL WAS ONE WE HAVE TO CHECK. YES. BUT IT'S BEEN CLEARED. UH, THAT'S A, THAT'S A, A KEY EXAMPLE. SAME WITH THE ENERGY THING THAT, YOU KNOW, WE HAD TO CHECK YEAH. BEFORE THE 50 RESIDENCES. I DON'T THINK ANYONE'S GONNA HAVE TO PUT A NEW POWER PLANT, A NEW SUBSTATION, ANY OF THAT FOR THIS. SO IT'S NOT NECESSARILY SIGNIFICANT, BUT WE HAVE TO CHECK THE BOX. RIGHT. BUT THERE ARE SOME OTHERS. THE AGRICULTURAL ONE IS, IS A GOOD EXAMPLE AS WELL AS SOME OF THE STUFF THAT FALLS UNDER, UM, TO OTHER ONES. THE OTHER ITEM THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL, UM, CHRIS, YOU ANSWERED SOME OF THE QUESTIONS VERY, UM, MATTER OF FACT, YES VERSUS NO ON SOME OF YOUR RESPONSES. OKAY. PERHAPS YOU COULD CLARIFY LIKE EIGHT A, WHICH SOIL GROUPS THERE ARE PRESENT SO THAT WHEN WE'RE BACKING THIS UP, YOU KNOW, WE ASKED IF THERE WERE ANY SOILS. SO EIGHTA, RIGHT. IF THERE ANY SOIL WE, WE HAD TO PROVIDE THOSE, WE HAD TO PROVIDE THOSE IN OUR ENGINEERS. IMPORTANT [03:15:01] SWIFT. ANYWAY, WE WE WILL THOUGH. I MEAN IF YOU COULD JUST PROVIDE EVEN TRACK THE TABLE OR WHATEVER SO THAT WE HAVE THAT AND WE CAN JUST SAY, LOOK IN THE FILE OR SOMEWHERE WE CAN, I THINK THE, I THINK THE SOIL TYPES ARE ACTUALLY ON EAF THAT'S ONE OF THE QUESTIONS. THEY'RE ON THE PART ONE BUT NOT THE GROUP ONE THROUGH FOUR AND FIVE OCCASION. CORRECT. I THINK WE UM, I DON'T THINK ANYONE DISAGREE, BUT SOMEONE TRYING TO MATCH THE PART ONE QUESTION FOR THE PART TWO IS NOT A VERY LINEAR EXERCISE. CORRECT. SO, SO, SO THAT'S WHERE WE CAME UP WITH MY RECOMMENDATION IS THAT THE, THE BOARD GO BACK AND CONSIDER EACH OF THESE THINGS. WE SIMILARLY PREPARED THE SAME DOCUMENT FOR THE, THE NEXT AGENDA ITEM TO RUN THROUGH, RUN THROUGH AND, AND TO COME UP WITH A RECOMMENDATION WHETHER OR NOT YOU AGREE WITH WHAT THOSE RATINGS WERE AND THEN WHETHER OR NOT YOU THINK IT'S SIGNIFICANT AND WHY FOR THE NEXT MEETING. ALRIGHT. SO DOUG, FIRST OF ALL, THANKS FOR NOT DOING IT AT, AT EVERY POINT THE WAY I SUGGESTED BECAUSE THAT WOULD'VE BEEN, UM, ANYTHING YOU WANT TO ADD, UH, TO THE LIST, UH, OR CHANGE ON THE LIST OR, OR ADD TO THE DISCUSSION? WELL, ACTUALLY ONE THING THAT IT ALMOST A JOKE IS, UH, NUMBER ONE E CONSTRUCTION WILL BE MORE THAN A YEAR. ISN'T PRETTY MUCH ALL OF EVERYTHING WE'VE DONE IS ENDS UP BEING MORE THAN A YEAR. RIGHT. I THINK THAT'S WHY THEY CHECKED. YES. UM, BUT YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN. RIGHT. HAS THERE BEEN MUCH OF ANYTHING THAT'S IN LESS THAN A YEAR? I THINK JUST BECAUSE IT'S CHECKED YES. DOESN'T MEAN, DOESN'T MEAN IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE'RE GONNA SAY. YOU GOTTA ADDRESS IT. WELL YOU, YOU'RE SAYING IT'S GONNA BE A MAJOR IMPACT THOUGH. NO, IT, IT IS A THRESHOLD. YOU HAVE TO CHECK. THE CONSTRUCTION'S GONNA HAPPEN MORE THAN A YEAR. YOU HAVE TO CHECK THAT BOX AS MODERATE TO LARGE. NOW IF YOU READ THE WORKBOOK, WHAT THAT ISSUE RELATES TO IS THAT IT ACTUALLY RELATES TO OTHER IMPACTS THAT IF YOU HAVE CONSTRUCTION RELATED IMPACTS, THEY'RE GONNA OCCUR FOR A LONG PERIOD OF TIME AND SAY YOU WERE JOINING A HOSPITAL. THAT'S THE EXAMPLE I USE WHEN I, WHEN I TEACH THIS AND, AND YOU'RE GONNA HAVE CONSTRUCTION RELATED IMPACTS FOR OVER A YEAR AND YOU'RE NEXT TO A HOSPITAL, ARE YOU GONNA OFFER SOMETHING TO MITIGATE 'CAUSE IT'S GONNA CAUSE SOME PROBLEM UNTO ITSELF. CONSTRUCTING FOR MORE THAN A YEAR IS NOT AN ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT. IT HAS TO BE RELATE TO SOME OTHER THING THAT'S OCCURRING THAT WOULD CAUSE AN IMPACT TO SOMETHING ELSE. SO YOU CHECK THAT BOX JUST FROM THE FACT THAT YOU HAVE TO CONSIDER THE FACT THAT CONSTRUCTION MAY GO ON FOR MORE THAN A YEAR. OBVIOUSLY YOU'RE NOT GONNA BUILD ALL THESE HOUSES IN ONE YEAR. IS THERE SOMETHING THAT WOULD CAUSE A, A PROBLEM WITH SOME OF THE OTHER MODERATE TO LARGE IMPACTS THAT COULD OCCUR? BECAUSE IT'S GONNA GO ON FOR A LONG PERIOD OF TIME. SO THAT'S THE ONLY REASON YOU CHECK THAT BOX. VERY RARELY. THERE'S ONLY CERTAIN INSTANCES THAT THAT BOX CAUSES ACTUAL SIGNIFICANT IMPACT BECAUSE OF THE CONSTRUCTION PLAN. IT HAS TO DO SOMETHING WITH SPECIFIC TO AREA THAT'S GONNA CAUSE A BIG PROBLEM BECAUSE THEY'RE GONNA BE CONSTRUCTING FOR OVER A YEAR. THOSE, YOU'RE RIGHT, THOSE DEVELOPMENTS TAKE A LONG TIME TO DEVELOP. I THINK IT ALSO PERTAINS TO HOW, LIKE WHEN UH, CHRIS PUT TOGETHER THE SWIP, LIKE IF THEY HAVE TO STABILIZE OVER THE WINTER, THEY'RE NOT DOING BASEMENTS AND STUFF. THERE'S OTHER THINGS THAT GET FACTORED IN THAT THEY INCORPORATE, YOU KNOW, IF THEY ARE HAVING LIKE A CONSTRUCTION SHUTDOWN TEMPORARILY STABILIZED THIS AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT THOSE THINGS ARE, STOCKPILING SOIL ON THE SITE, ALL THOSE THINGS THAT RELATE TO LONG TERM IMPACTS. I JUST SOME KIND OF WAIT ON MY COMMENTS UNTIL AFTER THE APPLICANT ADDRESSES MOST OF THESE ANYWAY. OKAY. YEAH, WE JUST HEARD, WE JUST HEARD THEM TONIGHT. SO WE WANT, WHAT I WOULD OFFER IS CAITLIN AND THE, AND THE SUBCOMMITTEE HAS DONE A, WHAT THEY BELIEVE IS A RECOMMENDATION ON PART TWO. OBVIOUSLY THE PLANNING BOARD HAS TO AGREE WITH THAT. YOU SHOULD ALL TAKE THAT, WORK IT OUT, THEN OFFICIALLY AT A UPCOMING MEETING, ADOPT THAT AS YOUR PART TWO. OBVIOUSLY THE APPLICANT HAS GOTTEN INFORMATION, THEY'RE GONNA TRY TO MAKE SURE THEY GET YOU ENOUGH INFORMATION TO MAKE THAT ANALYSIS OF THOSE PART TWO. SEAN DOES A GOOD JOB. HE'S GONNA TAKE THAT AND SAY WHY HE BELIEVES THAT THAT IS NOT A SIGNIFICANT IMPACT. OBVIOUSLY YOU'LL REVIEW THAT AND THEN INFORMATION AND MAKE THAT DECISION ON THE RECORD. SO YOU'VE DONE A GOOD JOB. YOU'VE IDENTIFIED THE APPLICANT TO THE APPLICANT, WHAT YOUR CONCERNS ARE ABOUT THE PROJECT BASED UPON THE SECRET LAW AND HOW HE MAY BE ABLE TO PROVIDE, LIKE I SAID, HE'S ALREADY PROVIDED SOME INFORMATION. HE'LL PROBABLY PROVIDE OTHER INFORMATION TO HELP YOU WITH THAT ANALYSIS. AND THE SECRET BOOK TELLS YOU HOW TO DO THAT ANALYSIS THAT YOU WEIGH AND BALANCE THE THINGS THAT ARE, THAT ARE, THAT ARE, THAT COULD POTENTIALLY AFFECT THE ENVIRONMENT. SO I APPLAUD YOU. A LOT OF, A LOT OF, A LOT OF TOWNS HAVE STRUGGLED WITH THIS. THIS IS A LOT OF WORK TO GO THROUGH A PART TWO AND A PART THREE AND ACTUALLY PUT YOUR DECISION ON THE RECORD. IT IS IMPORTANT BECAUSE YOU HAVE TWO LARGE PROJECTS THAT [03:20:01] ARE JOINING EACH OTHER. I THINK IT'S A GOOD TOOL FOR YOU GUYS TO WORK, WALK THROUGH AND SAY, HEY, THIS IS, THIS IS HOW WE CAN RESOLVE THESE ISSUES FOR THE PUBLIC AND FOR THE APPLICANT AND FOR YOU GUYS ON, ON POTENTIAL ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACTS. SO THANK YOU. I'M SORRY. I JUST SAY THAT IT'S, I APPLAUD YOU FOR DOING A LOT OF OPPORTUNITIES. AVOID THIS PROCESS. YEAH. AND DOUG, I'D BE, IF I'D BE HAPPY TO CHAT WITH YOU OFFLINE AND WALK THROUGH WHERE WE CAME FROM AND, AND ADJUST IT VIDEO ACCORDINGLY. WE BETTER WAIT UNTIL I HEAR FROM WHAT THEY'RE GONNA STAY. ALRIGHT. SO CAN I PROVIDE AN UPDATE THEN ON A COUPLE NON, YOU KNOW, NON PART TWO OF THE AF RELATED ITEMS? SURE, PLEASE. I KNOW IT'S GETTING LATE. SO NUMBER ONE, I DO WANT TO NOTE, WE DID OBTAIN A JURISDICTIONAL DETERMINATION FOR THE MANCO PROJECT FOR THE UNITED STATES ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS THAT WAS DATED MAY 13TH. AND THEY DID ROLL THAT THIS PARTICULAR WETLAND, WHICH WAS 6 100 0 POINT, IT'S 0.063, IS NON-JURISDICTIONAL. AND THEN THE WETLAND THAT WAS DE DESCRIBED AS BEING JUST JURISDICTIONAL, WHICH IS 0.644. THE ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS AGREED WITH OUR WETLAND CONSULTANT ERIC CRAWL. SO AS A RESULT OF THAT, WE'RE PROPOSING NO IMPACTS TO WETLANDS THAT ARE SUBJECT TO THE JURISDICTION OF THE ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS ON THIS SITE. AND THEN SECONDLY, IN MORE IMPORTANT SEAN, ON THAT, THEY ALSO DID TAKE PICTURES. THIS WAS THE QUESTION OF THE LAST MEETING OF THE, THE DITCH THAT WENT THROUGH THERE. RIGHT? THEY TOOK JURIS. RIGHT? THEY RIGHT, THEY, THEY, THEY DID DETERMINE THAT 600 FEET OF LINEAR DITCH IS SUBJECT TO FEDERAL JURISDICTION. AND THAT'S ALSO RIGHT IN MY LETTER. NOW THAT BRINGS UP A QUESTION THAT I HAD AND HOPEFULLY SOMEBODY CAN ANSWER IT ON THIS PROPERTY. IT'S A DITCH AT THE PROPERTY LINE. IT TURNS INTO A CREEK. RIGHT? WELL THE SURVEYOR FOR THE LOT PRO PROJECT IS LABELED AS A CREEK. SO WHAT'S, WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE? I'D SAY IT'S A DITCH, IT'S A . I, I, THEY'RE ALL REGULATED WATERS BEST I THINK IS THE TECHNICAL TERM, BUT SO, OKAY. SO WHETHER IT'S A CREEK OR A DITCH, THE RULES ARE THE SAME. RIGHT. IT'S TECHNICALLY A TRIBUTARY TO RUSSIAN CREEK. RIGHT. ALRIGHT. OKAY. THE RULES ARE THE SAME THEN I DON'T CARE IF IT'S A PRE GRADE PAYCHECK. RIGHT. AND THEN, AND THEN SECONDLY, AND THE RESIDENTS, AS YOU KNOW, WE'VE BEEN IN DISCUSSIONS WITH THE PARK ROAD RESIDENTS GOING BACK TO EARLY LAST FALL, LATE LAST SUMMER. SO ONE THING WE DO WANNA REVISIT ONE MORE TIME, THIS IS THE PLAN THAT WE PRESENTED MOST RECENTLY. THE AS OF RIGHT UM, RESIDENTIAL PLAN. AS YOU KNOW, 69 LOTS, 67 FOR SINGLE FAMILY HOMES. INCLUDES LOTS ALONG PARKER ROAD. BEFORE WE GET INTO THAT, WHAT I DID SELL THE, THE RESIDENCE THAT I WOULD LET . SO THANK YOU NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE, FOR THE RECORD. YEP. THANK YOU MR. CHAIRMAN. UM, BOARD. MY NAME IS TIM COOK. 4 3 8 8 8 PARKER ROAD. I'M SPEAKING ON BEHALF OF THE PARKER ROAD RESIDENCE AND THE JOHN MICHAEL WAY RESIDENCE. WE WOULD, UM, REALLY REQUEST THAT YOU TAKE ANOTHER LOOK AT, UM, THE CLUSTER, UM, FORMAT FOR THE SIMPLE FACT IS TO TRY TO KEEP IT A RURAL LOOKING, THERE'S MORE GREEN SPACE AND LESS, UH, NONPERMEABLE SPACE. THE FOOTPRINT WOULD BE A LOT LESS. UM, WE THINK IT WOULD BE MUCH MORE APPEALING TO THE AREA AND THE, THE LOCAL NEIGHBORS AND WHAT HAVE YOU. UM, WE WOULD JUST REQUEST THAT YOU MIGHT TAKE ANOTHER LOOK AT THAT IF YOU WOULD PLEASE. AND, AND AS WE, WE STATED IN THE PAST, WE, WE DENIED THAT PROJECT. WE WOULDN'T CONSIDER THE SAME PROJECT BECAUSE WE ALREADY DENIED IT. CORRECT. IF THERE WAS SOMETHING WITH A, A SUBSTANTIAL CHANGE TO THE POINT WHERE THE PEOPLE ON THE PLANNING BOARD THOUGHT IT WAS DIFFERENT ENOUGH TO RECONSIDER IT, THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT WE'D HAVE TO MAKE A DECISION ON. BUT IF IT'S THE SAME PROJECT, WE WOULDN'T CONSIDER THE SAME PROJECT. VERY GOOD. APPRECIATE THAT. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. SO TO FOLLOW UP ON THAT EXACT POINT, THIS IS THE PLAN THAT WE'VE PREVIOUSLY PRESENTED. AND THEN WE HAVE ANOTHER PLAN. AND TO KEEP IN MIND, THIS IS CONCEPTUAL, IT IS NOT FORMALLY BEEN SUBMITTED THAT SHOWS CLUSTERING, BUT SHOWS UPDATED CLUSTERING AND ALSO GIVES INTO CONSIDERATION THE FACT THAT WE HAVE MR. WETZELS PROJECT DIRECTLY NEXT DOOR. SO THIS PLAN DOES SHOW ONCE AND FOR ALL ELIMINATION OF THE FRONTAGE LOCKS ON PARKER ROAD. THE BOARD AS WELL AS THE RESIDENTS HAVE PREVIOUS, HAVE PREVIOUSLY EXPRESSED A CONCERN ABOUT PRESERVING THE RURAL CHARACTER OF THAT AREA. SO WE'VE DONE THAT. IT ALSO DOES SHOW AN INCREASE IN THE AMOUNT OF PERMANENT OPEN SPACE. SO WE'RE AT 15.38 ACRES, WHICH IS ALMOST, IT'S ACTUALLY 52.3% OF THE SITE. WE'RE NOW SHOWING TRAIL IMPROVEMENTS [03:25:01] AND EXTENSIVE LANDSCAPING IN THE PERMANENT OPEN SPACE. AND WE'LL SHOW YOU IN A SECOND, THAT TRAIL WOULD ACTUALLY CONNECT TO THE WETZEL PROJECT AND WOULD BE ACCESSIBLE NOT ONLY TO BOTH PROJECTS. KEEP IN MIND YOU HAVE THE SUBDIVISION ON THE ONE SITE, THE MULTI-FAMILY SITE NEXT DOOR WOULD ALSO BE ACCESSIBLE TO THE PUBLIC AS WELL. SO WE THINK THAT WOULD BE A NICE AMENITY. AND THEN TO SHOW YOU THE COLOR PLAN, AND I THINK THIS IS REALLY, I THINK THIS IS REALLY WHAT MAKES A DIFFERENCE. AND YOU DIDN'T HAVE THIS IN FRONT OF YOU PREVIOUSLY OBVIOUSLY BECAUSE AT THAT POINT, UM, THE PROJECTS WEREN'T BEING REVIEWED SIMULTANEOUSLY. WE NOW TAKE HALF OF THE MANCO SITE AND MAKE IT GREEN SPACE. WE TAKE ALMOST HALF OF THE CONTIGUOUS WETZEL SITE AND MAKE IT GREEN SPACE. AND KEEP IN MIND IT'S CONTIGUOUS. WE'VE ADDED A WALKING TRAIL FROM THE WETZEL PROJECT OVER TO THE MANCO SUBDIVISION ADDED ON ONSITE TRAILS THAT WILL BE PUBLICLY ACCESSIBLE. WE'VE ADDED A CONNECTION, CHRIS, THAT GOES TO THE PARK, THE TOWN OWNED PROPERTY, A A CONNECTION THAT WOULD GO TO THE TOWN OWNED PROPERTY, WHICH HAS PUBLIC ACCESS, WOULD ALSO GET RID OF THE LOTS ALONG PARK ROAD. AND THEN THE PERMANENT OPEN SPACE ON THE MANCO SITE. THE WETZEL SITE, AS YOU KNOW, MOST OF THAT PERMANENT OPEN SPACE IS HEAVILY VEGETATED. UH, THERE'S WETLANDS THERE. I DON'T THINK THERE'S A NEED TO ENHANCE IT A LOT. BUT ON THE MANCO SITE, BECAUSE OF COURSE IT'S A AGRICULTURAL FIELD, WE'VE NOW DEVELOPED A CONCEPTUAL LANDSCAPING PLAN. SO THEN RATHER THAN JUST LEAVE THAT AS A FIELD, WE WOULD PLANT EXTENSIVE TREES. AGAIN, THE WALKING TRAILS. AND I THINK IF YOU LOOK AT THAT, ESPECIALLY IN THE CONTEXT OF THE EAF PART TWO DRAFT THAT YOU JUST WENT OVER, IT REALLY MAKES A LOT OF SENSE. WE'RE REDUCING THE AMOUNT OF IMPERVIOUS SURFACE, INCLUDING THE ROADWAY. BY WAY OF EXAMPLE, THE AMOUNT OF ROAD ON SITE IS BEING REDUCED FROM 4,100 LINEAR FEET TO 2,800 FEET. WE'RE DECREASING THE AMOUNT OF IMPERVIOUS SURFACE ASSOCIATED WITH THE LOTS AND RELATED INFRASTRUCTURE. AND UNLIKE THE PREVIOUS CLUSTER PLAN, WHICH YOU HEARD THE, THAT UNFORTUNATELY I WAS WORKING ON AT ONE POINT, THESE ARE NOT MINUSCULE TINY LOTS. THESE LOTS THAT WE'RE SHOWING HERE, MIND, THIS IS A LARGE SITE, ARE A MINIMUM OF 11,000 SQUARE FEET. WE ARE NOT REQUESTING A 20 FOOT, A 25 FOOT OR A 30 FOOT FRONT YARD SETBACK. WE WOULD GO WITH THE SAME SETBACKS THAT APPLY, MEANING MINIMUM FRONT YARD SETBACK, 35 FEET MINIMUM SIDE YARD SETBACK, 10 FEET MINIMUM REAR YARD SETBACK 30 FEET BECAUSE OUR LOTS ARE 75 FEET BY 140 FEET. THEY'RE MORE THAN ADEQUATE TO FIG TO PROVIDE A LARGE HOUSE, AN ADEQUATE BACKYARD. AND UNLIKE THAT PROJECT YOU PREVIOUSLY RECEIVED, NONE OF THE PERMANENT OPEN SPACES LOCATED ON THE LOTS. SO THE PERMIT OPEN SPACE IS LOCATED OFF THE LOTS, THERE'S AMPLE ROOM AND THEN WE HAVE THAT GREEN SPACE BEHIND IT. SO WHILE WE'RE NOT ASKING YOU TO MAKE A DECISION THIS EVENING, WE WOULD ASK THAT YOU RECONSIDER THIS. WE'VE ADVISED THE RESIDENTS THAT WE WOULD MAKE THAT REQUEST. THEY'VE MADE THAT REQUEST. I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF NEW INFORMATION AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE BIG PICTURE OF BOTH THE PROJECTS IN THAT SUBSTANTIAL GREEN SPACE AND THE OPPORTUNITY TO TRY AND INTEGRATE THOSE TWO USES, I THINK IT MAKES A LOT OF SENSE. I'M NOT GONNA SPEND A LOT OF TIME TONIGHT AT 10 OF 10 ADDRESSING THE CLUSTERING CRITERIA. BUT I THINK IF WE REVISIT THOSE AS SET FORTH IN SECTION TWO 80 DASH 2 81 OF THE CODE, I THINK WHEN WE LOOK AT THIS PLAN, WE NOW ARE IN COMPLIANCE WITH THOSE CRITERIA. SO THAT, SO SEAN, SEAN, CAN YOU PROVIDE A, A WRITTEN SUMMARY OF EVERYTHING YOU JUST SAID? YES. UM, SO THAT WE HAVE IT TO LOOK REFLECT ON OVER THE NEXT COUPLE WEEKS. TWO, I BELIEVE WHEN I'M LOOKING AT THIS HIGH LEVEL, THAT THE AREAS THAT WERE TARGETED FOR STORMWATER PONDS ARE STILL CONSIDERED AN OPEN SPACE. AND I'D BE INTERESTED TO HEAR WHAT THE AIR ACREAGE IS OF OPEN SPACE THAT IS EXCLUDING THE STORMWATER PONDS OR STORMWATER INFRASTRUCTURE ON THE SITE. WE CAN PROVIDE THAT CALCULATION. CAN YOU GIVE THE CALCULATION TOO? I I THINK THOSE ARE A DIFFERENT, DIFFERENT THINGS. THOSE ARE STORMWATER INFRASTRUCTURE THAT HAS TO HAPPEN. I DON'T WANT THEM TO NECESSARILY COUNT TOWARDS. RIGHT. SO YOU, YOU'D LIKE TO SEE, YOU'D LIKE TO SEE A CALCULATION OF PERMANENT OPEN SPACE, BUT AS WELL AS PERMANENT OPEN SPACE EXCLUDING THE REQUIRED STORMWATER INFRASTRUCTURE. YES. OKAY. THAT'S FAIR. WE'RE OKAY WITH THAT. IF WE, IF WE MAKE 'EM BIGGER THAN THEY NEED TO BE FOR AESTHETIC PURPOSES, THEN WE CAN COUNT THAT ADDITIONAL SPACE, I WOULD THINK. RIGHT? I MEAN WE'RE, WE'RE CONTEMPLATING THEM HAVING A DECK, A DECORATIVE FUNCTION AS WELL. NOT JUST, YOU KNOW, THE MINIMUM EXTENT NECESSARY. UNDERSTOOD. THAT'S WHY WE'RE ASKING FOR, FOR BOTH. OKAY. AND WITHOUT SURE ENOUGH, YOU'RE GONNA GIVE IT TO US, BUT THAT'S MANKO AND THEN JUST WEZEL. RIGHT? I THINK IT'S BETTER. WELL REMEMBER WETZEL DOESN'T NEED CLUSTERING. RIGHT. MANCOS THE CLUSTER. SO I JUST THINK IT'S HELPFUL TO LOOK [03:30:01] AT BOTH AT THE SAME TIME. WE'LL SUBMIT THE REGULAR, WE'LL SUBMIT THIS PLAN HERE. I WANNA KNOW THE OPEN SPACE THOUGH FOR MANKO, JUST YES, YES, YES. YEAH, WE WILL, RIGHT? WE HAVE THAT, YES. UM, BUT WE'LL SUBMIT THIS PLAN, WHICH HAS ALL BREAKDOWN OF THE OPEN SPACE FOUR . SO THE OTHER THING I JUST WANNA BE CAREFUL THAT WE AS A BOARD CONSIDER IS THAT WHILE WE HAVE MAKE KO'S PROJECT IS IN FRONT OF US FOR SITE PLAN APPROVAL, THERE IS STILL ZONING APPROVAL. THEY TO BE GRANTED OUT. MR. WEZEL, THEY'RE NOT ENFORCEMENT SITE PLAN. WE AS A BOARD CAN'T, CAN'T PREDICT WHAT THE TOWN BOARD WILL DO. AND WE NEED TO JUST BE CAREFUL ABOUT IF THAT PROJECT FOR ONE REASON SEPARATE APPLICANT, NOT THE SAME PERSON, DOESN'T MOVE FORWARD FOR ONE, WE'RE USING ANOTHER. EVEN IF IT'S A TEMPORAL DELAY, WE DON'T WANNA TRAIL THAT JUST KIND OF EXTENDS 50 FEET AND THAT DOESN'T GO ANYWHERE. YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT FUNCTIONALLY CONNECTED. NO, THAT, THAT IS A GOOD POINT. AND I WOULD NOTE, I THINK THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS YOU DID INDICATE THAT THE TOWN BOARD SHOULD HOLD A PRELIMINARY PUBLIC HEARING. I JUST WANNA MAKE CLEAR THEY DID HOLD THAT HEARING AND DREW CAN CHIME IN. YOU CAN'T SPEAK FOR THE TOWN BOARD, BUT ULTIMATELY I DIDN'T HEAR ANYTHING AT THAT HEARING THAT EXPRESSED A BIG CONCERN ABOUT THE LAYUP THAT WE'RE CURRENTLY SHOWING FOR WETZEL. BUT THE POINT IS WELL TAKEN THAT ON THE WAY THE TOWN BOARD WOULD NEED TO APPROVE THAT REZONING APPLICATION FOR THAT PROJECT TO GO FORWARD. WE ACKNOWLEDGE THAT. SO I MEAN I, I THINK THAT WE SHOULD CONSIDER THESE CHANGES. THE BIG THING FOR ME IS THE PUBLIC WALKING PATH. UH, WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN COMMITTEE, THAT WAS ONE OF THE TOP THREE ITEMS THAT IN THE SURVEY THAT WE DID OF TOWN RESIDENTS, WHAT THEY WANTED MORE OF IN THE TOWN OF HAMBURG. THE LAST PLAN, IT WAS NOT A PUBLIC PATH AND WE SAID NO, UM, ONE OF MY CRITICISMS OF CLUSTER SUBDIVISIONS IS THAT THEY'RE CUT OFF FROM THE REST OF THE TOWN, BUT WITH A PUBLIC PATH THAT PEOPLE CAN USE TO GIVE FROM ONE END TO THE OTHER THAT JOINS IT IN WITH THE REST OF THE COMMUNITY AND ADDS SOMETHING THAT WE DON'T HAVE. AND I MEAN, I'M WORKING ON SOME PROJECTS WHERE WE'RE TRYING TO ADD PATHS IN NEIGHBORHOODS THAT ALREADY EXIST AND IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO JUST FIND SPACE FOR IT. SO HAVING A PATH ALREADY READY I THINK IS A, IS A PRETTY GOOD BENEFIT TO US. I ALSO THINK IN LOOKING AT THE CONSERVATION ADVISORY BOARD'S COMMENTS THAT HAVING SOME BREATHING ROOM BETWEEN THE BUILDINGS AND THE DITCH OR CREEK, WHICHEVER YOU WANT TO CALL IT, WILL HELP POSSIBLY MITIGATE SOME OF THEIR CONCERNS. I DON'T KNOW IF WE REALLY WOULD MITIGATE THEM, BUT I I THINK HAVING THE BUILDINGS FARTHER AWAY FROM THE CREEK RIGHT. THAT, THAT THIS WOULDN'T BE IN ANY OF THE LOTS ANYMORE. YEAH. NOW THERE'S NO IMPACT WHATSOEVER. I, I, SO I, I THINK THAT WOULD HELP ALLEVIATE THOSE CONCERNS. I DON'T KNOW IF IT COMPLETELY DOES. I DON'T THINK THIS PLAN CHANGES MUCH, IF ANYTHING ON THE PART TWO THAT WE WENT OVER. SO THAT, THAT'S JUST MY OPINION ON IT. I WHAT DO, WHAT DO WE THINK WE WANT TO CONSIDER THIS CHANGE OR NOT? ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT BRINGING UP A CLUSTER AGAIN, I'M TALKING ABOUT CONSIDERING THE CHANGES THAT THEY MADE HERE, WHAT WE CALL IT. I DON'T REALLY CARE. UM, I THINK THERE'S SOME BENEFITS TO WHAT I'M LOOKING AT HERE ON THIS MAP THAT WE DON'T HAVE IN THE OTHER MAPS THAT WE'VE BEEN LOOKING AT FOR THE PAST FEW MONTHS. AND I THINK AS FAR AS A PLACE TO START WITH NEGOTIATING MITIGATIONS, I'D RATHER DO IT FROM THIS PLAN THAN THE OTHER PLAN. IS THIS A NEW PLAN OR, I MEAN, IS IT A, I THINK IT'S A NEW PLAN. HOW MANY TIMES ARE WE GONNA HAVE PEOPLE COME BACK? AND WE TALKED ABOUT THIS IN, I I THINK IT'S A DIFFERENT PLAN, DENNIS. SO I WAS NOT NECESSARILY SUPPORTIVE OF THE CLUSTER THE LAST TIME AND I'M NOT NECESSARILY EXCITED TO JUST GO BACK TO WHAT IT WAS, THE CLUSTER, THE FLOOR. SO I GUESS HOW MANY LOTS ARE CHANGING? AND THEN ONE OF THE CONCERNS THAT HAS CONTINUED TO COME UP THE BEGINNING OF THIS IS RELATED TO TURBIDITY AND WATER QUALITY. AND I WOULD LOVE TO SEE SOMETHING THAT ADDS SOME SORT OF LAND RIPARIAN, LANDSCAPING AND BUFFER ALONG THE REGULATED WATER OF THE YEAH, THAT'S A REALLY GOOD IDEA ACROSS BOTH OF BOTH, YOU KNOW, THE, AS A BUMPER, THE WHOLE LENGTH, AND THEN PERHAPS A SORT OF LANDSCAPING FEATURE FROM, FROM THIS PROJECT ALL THE WAY THROUGH ALONG THE TRIBUTARY, THROUGH THE OTHER DEVELOPMENT THAT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE NOT GOING RIGHT [03:35:01] UP TO THE EDGE. I THINK THAT IS A CONCERN AND ADDING SOME SORT OF NATURAL VEGETATED BUT AESTHETICALLY PLEASING, INTEGRATED WITH THE DESIGN FUNCTIONALITY MAY GET ME MORE WILLING TO CONSIDERED SOME OF THIS. RIGHT. SO I THINK THERE'S NO OTHER ISSUES THAT ARE NOT ADDRESSED BY CLUSTERING THE LAN ONE OF THAT. YES, DEFINITELY. BUT WE, ON THIS PLAN, WE ARE, WE ARE PROPOSING BELIEVE THE AREA THAT'S PERMANENT OPEN SPACE BETWEEN THE LOTS AND THE CREEK IS WHY THEY NATURAL. BUT WE ALSO COULD LOOK AT, YOU KNOW, TALKING TO OUR WETLAND CONSULTANT WHO'S VERY REPUTABLE, INCLUDES WETLAND, BIOLOGISTS AND ECOLOGIST ABOUT THE COMMENT THAT KAITLYN JUST MADE TO TRY AND REALLY MAKE THAT SO IT'S MORE OF A, A NATURAL VEGETATIVE BUFFER WITH THE APPROPRIATE PLANTINGS. WE'D BE FINE WITH THAT. YEAH. AND MARK LAURAKAY BROUGHT SOMETHING UP ABOUT THAT. NOT, MAYBE NOT ON THIS PARTICULAR PROJECT, BUT THAT THERE'S, AND I, I THINK THAT WAS WHAT CAITLIN WAS MENTIONING, BUT SHE USED WORDS TOO BIG FOR ME TO UNDERSTAND. UH, THERE'S, THERE'S CERTAIN PLANTS, RIGHT, THAT WILL TAKE CHEMICALS OUT OF THE WATER AND IF YOU PUT THEM BETWEEN THE BUILDINGS AND THE DITCH EXACTLY. THE WATER THAT GOES INTO THE DITCH WILL BE CLEANER AND IT'S NATURAL. THAT'S CORRECT. RIGHT. DID I, DID I SUMMARIZE IT? HOPEFULLY, YES, THANK YOU. YES. BUT I THINK, BUT I THINK THAT THAT CAN'T BE DONE IN A VACUUM. AND THIS IS WHERE IT COMES DOWN TO THE ZONING AND INTEGRATING IT TO THE, IS THIS PROJECT COMES FIRST AND IT UPSTREAM. BUT I STILL THINK THAT THIS COVERS SOME OF THE ITEMS. BUT I, I, I THINK THAT THERE'S WAYS THAT IT MAY BE WORTH CONSIDERING. I GUESS THE OTHER QUESTION IS, IS HOW DID YOU CHANGE THE NUMBER OF UNITS LOTS? HAS THAT CHANGED? OR IF YOU JUST CONDENSED ON LOT SIZES? THE NUMBER OF, THE NUMBER OF LOTS IS THE SAME. WE HAVE GOTTEN RID OF THE FRONTAGE LOTS ON PARKER ROAD, THE MINIMUM LOT SIZE THAT WE'RE SHOWING ON THE CURRENT PLAN. SO IF KEEP MIND, NO ONE WANTS TO HEAR THE WORD CLUSTERING. CLUSTERING ALLOWS ALL THE WAY DOWN TO 5,000 SQUARE FEET, OBVIOUSLY WITH YOUR PERMISSION. BY WAY OF, BY WAY OF COMPARISON, OUR MINIMUM LOT SIZE IS 10,500 SQUARE 500 SQUARE FEET WITH A MINIMUM WIDTH OF 75 FEET IN A MINIMUM DEPTH OF 140 FEET. I DO WANNA MAKE SURE I MAKE IT CLEAR. I TALKED ABOUT FRONT YARD SETBACK. THE CLUSTERING ALLOWS 20 FEET MINIMUM FRONT YARD SETBACK. UNDER THIS PLAN, OUR PROPOSED MINIMUM WOULD BE 30 FEET. AND WE WOULD AGREE TO THAT BEING THE STANDARD GOING FORWARD UNDER THIS PLAN. YES. WHAT IS THE SETBACK BETWEEN THE BACKYARD BACK PROPERTY LINE AND THE HOUSE? THE, THE MINIMUM REAR YARD SETBACK, I THINK IS CHRIS 30 MINIMUM REAR YARD SETBACK IS 25. 25. SO 30 YOU SAID 30 OR 35 IN FRONT. 30 IN FRONT. 30 IN FRONT. 25 IN THE BACK. 25 IN THE BACK. YES. SO, AND THEY'RE AVERAGING 140. YEAH. THE MINIMUM IS 140. YEAH. RIGHT. YEAH. CAN WE SEE A MOCKUP OF WHAT YEAH, THAT'S WOULD LOOK LIKE, WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE A LOT DETAIL? I WOULD, YES. YEAH. AND I THINK MR. CHAPMAN HAD MADE SOME COMMENTS WHERE HE WOULD LIKE TO SEE THAT AS WELL. YES, THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL. I AGREE. RIGHT. I MEAN WE, ONE OF THE THINGS WE'D WANNA HAVE TO ADDRESS IS, AS YOU SAID, THESE LOTS ARE BIGGER THAN THE OTHER ONES, BUT IT IS A BIG CONCERN. AND AS YOU SAW IN THE OTHER CLUSTER, EVENTUALLY PEOPLE WANNA BUILD STUFF IN THEIR BACKYARD AND THE CODE ENFORCEMENT DEPARTMENT AND US WANNA MAKE SURE THAT THERE'S ENOUGH SPACE FOR THAT. SO, SO WE WANNA BE ABLE TO SEE WITH OUR OWN EYES HOW THAT WOULD FIT AND KNOW THAT THEY'RE NOT GONNA COME BACK IN A FEW YEARS AND SAY, HEY, WE WANT TO CHANGE THIS ALL BECAUSE, RIGHT. NO. SO WE CAN GIVE A, BUT I, I DO WANT MAKE SURE THAT CHAIRMAN CLARK'S IMPORTANT. SO THE PREVIOUS PROJECT THAT YOU WERE REVIEWING WOULD BE LIKE, IF THIS GREEN SPACE CAME TO HERE ACTUALLY ONTO THE LOTS, WHERE IS THIS? WE'RE NOT MEANING, IT DOESN'T MATTER. YOU CAN NEVER, IF YOU BUY ONE OF THESE LOTS, YOU DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO GO INTO THAT GREEN SPACE. YOU CAN NEVER EXTEND YOUR IMPROVEMENTS IN THAT. BUT I THINK THE COMMENT THAT MEGAN MADE ABOUT SHOWING A LOT DETAIL, LIKE HOW DOES A LOT ACTUALLY WORK IN TERMS OF WHERE'S THE DRIVEWAY? YEAH. WHERE'S THE HOUSE, WHERE ARE THE SETBACKS? THAT'S GOOD INFORMATION. AND WE'LL PROVIDE THAT. I JUST, AND AND THINK ABOUT, I DON'T WANNA, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE A 35 FOOT SETBACK, YOU HAVE A 50 FOOT WIDE LOT, YOU'RE STILL GONNA HAVE 60 PLUS FEET BACKYARD. RIGHT. I MEAN, UNLIKE THE OTHER ONES THAT HAD 10 FEET, 10 FEET, 15 FEET. YEAH. BUT I'M LOOKING AT THE LOT SIZES ON WATERFORD. THERE'S NOT, ALL OF THEM ARE SMALLER THAN THESE ONES. THAT'S WHY I WANNA SEE HOW IT LAYS OUT. YEAH. LET US, LET US LAY IT OUT. YEAH. USE THE BIGGEST, BIGGEST MODEL HOME THAT THEY'RE PLANNING ON PUTTING ON THERE, JUST SO YOU CAN SEE. RIGHT. AND I THINK WE NEED TO CONSIDER, IF WE DO CONSIDER THIS, PUTTING A RESTRICTIONS SO WE DON'T END UP WITH A PROJECT LIKE WHAT WE SAW EARLIER, THAT IT'S BACK HERE FOUR AND FIVE TIMES BECAUSE THE HOUSE HAS GOT HUGE, A LOT ARE HUGE. WE WOULD PUT AS A CONDITION, A BACKYARD SETBACK. RIGHT. I THINK YOU PUT ALL I THINK FRONT SIDE AND REAR, RIGHT? YEAH. [03:40:01] RIGHT. WE'D BE OKAY WITH THAT. WELL, YOU NEED TO BECAUSE WITH A CLUSTER, WHEN THEY COME IN FOR PERMITS, THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT DOESN'T KNOW WHAT SETBACKS TO USE UNLESS YOU ASSIGN IT OR SOMETHING TO US. WHAT IS, WHAT ARE THE SIDE EFFECTS? ARE WE ANTICIPATING? WE'RE RIGHT. WE'RE SHOWN AND HALF, SEVEN AND A HALF FEET PER LOCK. 15 TOTAL. 15 TOTAL. AND I, SO I DID TALK TO ROGER TODAY ABOUT THIS AND HE JUST WANTS, WANTED, HE NOTED THAT THE, THE SMALLEST LOCKS IN THIS CLUSTER ARE LARGER THAN THE MINIMUM REQUIRED FOR AN R TWO. RIGHT. WHERE IS ANOTHER DEVELOPMENT THAT'S GOT SIMILAR SETBACKS THAT WE CAN VISUALLY GO AND SEE. THEY'RE THIS BIG WELL WITH LIKE SEVEN AND A HALF ON THE SIDE YARD AND PROBABLY OR FIVE. THOSE ARE SEVEN AND NINE. BUT THEY'RE SMALLER. WATS, THEY'RE, YOU COULD VISUALIZE 15 FEET. YEAH. WHICH IS THAT THE COLLEGES, UM, BOSTON STATE AND THE NEW ONES THAT ARE GOING IN THE LOTS ARE, BUT THAT'S 15 BETWEEN THE HOUSES. WELL THAT'S WHAT I WANT GET IS A VISUAL TO DETERMINE LIKE BETWEEN THE HOUSES. EXACTLY. IF YOU'RE GONNA HAVE FAMILIES IN THERE, YOU DON'T NECESSARILY WANNA HEAR THE TEENAGER'S MUSIC NEXT DOOR WHEN YOU HAVE A NEWBORN, YOU'RE TRYING TO PUT THE BEST. RIGHT. SO, SO I JUST GOING BACK I AGREE. I JUST DON'T WANT NECESSARILY PEOPLE TO BE UPSET EITHER LATER. OKAY. WELL I WANNA BE CLEAR THOUGH THAT THIS, THERE'S SOME ELEMENTS OF THIS THAT IF WE ENHANCE WHAT YOU'RE ALREADY SHOWING, THAT THAT MAY ADDRESS SOME OF THE CONCERNS OF THE RAISE. BUT I WANNA, AGAIN, WE'RE GO BACK TO THE FACT THAT THIS IS TWO SEPARATE PROJECTS AND I WANNA, I THINK WE ALSO NEED A DRAWING THAT SHOWS, 'CAUSE THIS IS ONE FOR SITE PLAN REVIEW, JUST THIS PROJECT SO WE CAN GET A FEEL FOR WHAT THE GREEN PORTION IS. YEAH, WE WILL. AND WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE IF THIS OTHER PROJECT DOESN'T GO FORWARD. YEAH. RIGHT. I CAN, I WOULD LIKE GIVE YOU A COLOR. I WOULD LIKE TO SEE, OR FROM THIS STREET SPACE AND OPEN SPACE THAN JUST THE STORM WATER. IF THERE'S WAYS TO ENHANCE AND IMPROVE AROUND THIS UNDEVELOPED SPACE THAT IT'S NOT JUST ADDITIONAL MOW LAW, PERHAPS THAT IT'S MORE VEGETATED IN TREES OR DEVELOPED AS A CONTINUATION OF THE FORESTED AREA. I, I THINK MAYBE THIS IS A STARTING POINT FOR DISCUSSION IN MY MIND, BUT I'M NOT GOTTEN THE DOOR OPEN. I I'M NOT, NOT CONSIDER GONNA FALL BACK WITH DENNIS. ALRIGHT, SO OH YEAH, I DO WANNA, I FORGOT. I DO WANNA MAKE SURE THAT ONE POINT'S CLEAR BECAUSE THIS IS A RESULT OF JUST ELIMINATING THE FRONTAGE LOTS. AND, AND THIS IS AN IMPORTANT POINT. SO THE AS OF RIGHT PLAN THAT WE'VE SUBMITTED IS 67 LOTS FOR SINGLE FAMILY HOMES. THE CLUSTERING PLANT WE'RE CURRENTLY PRESENTING IS 60. SO IT IS, THERE'S SEVEN LOTS LEFT. YEAH. SO IT IS A REDUCTION IN DENSITY. AND IN TERMS OF THE SIDE YARD SETBACK, I UNDERSTAND WHY YOU WANT TO SEE IT. R ONE, THE MINIMUM SIDE YARD SETBACK IS 10 FEET. WE'RE ASKING THAT YOU WOULD CONSIDER REDUCING THAT TO SEVEN LOTS. YEAH. THAT'S WHY I SEE WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE. WHAT IS IT IN OUR TERM? ANYBODY KNOW? I CAN LOOK IT UP PROBABLY. AND I DO WANNA ACKNOWLEDGE WHAT CAITLIN SAID. THIS IS A STARTING POINT. WE WOULD WELCOME ADDITIONAL INPUT. WE'RE NOT ASKING YOU TO APPROVE IT AGAIN. WE'VE PULLED THE RESIDENTS, WE WOULD TAKE ANOTHER SHOT AT IT AND CAN WE MAKE SOME ENHANCEMENT IMPROVEMENTS? THIS ABSOLUTELY, I BELIEVE HOW THEY GENERATED THE SEVEN AND A HALF FEET, IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY. IT, IT THEN HAS 15 FEET BETWEEN THE BUILDINGS AND I BELIEVE THE BUILDING CODE, YOU WOULD'VE TO PUT A SPRINKLER SYSTEM IN IF YOUR BUILDINGS WERE CLOSER THAN THAT. THAT'S WHY THEY CAME UP 12. I THINK IT'S 12. YEAH. 12 AND A HALF. SO WE CAME UP WITH SEVEN AND A HALF AND WE DID THAT. BUT ANYWAY, BUT THAT'S A GOOD POINT. GET A, GET A GOOD, WE LEARNED A LESSON, GET A GET COMES LOT SAMPLE LAYOUTS TO SHOW WHAT THEY'RE GONNA LOOK LIKE SO WE KNOW WHAT THE REAR YARD SIDE YARDS AND EVERYTHING THEY'RE GONNA LOOK LIKE. I GUESS I JUST ALSO WANNA BE CLEAR THAT I RECOGNIZE, AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT'S HAPPENED IN A LOT OF SUBDIVISIONS IS THIS OPEN SPACE ENDS UP AS LIKE MOW GRASS. AND I DON'T THINK THAT THAT PROVIDES ANY ADDITIONAL VALUE OR THE OPEN SPACE IS STORM WATER. SO IF I FIND IT CAN'T JUST BE ANOTHER TWO OR THREE ACRES WHERE YOU PUT SOME LANDSCAPING IN AND 12 AND A HALF ACRES OF GRASS AND STORMWATER POND. WE GOTTA DO SOMETHING TO MAKE, TO MAKE THIS, THIS IS, YOU HAVE A BLANK SLATE ON THIS SITE. IT'S A UNIQUE OPPORTUNITY. IT'S GRADED. THAT'S UNVEGETATED. HOW CAN YOU CREATE SOMETHING THAT IS ALSO IN HARMONY WITH THE ADJACENT PROPERTY THAT MAY OR MAY NOT GO THROUGH ITS OWN SEPARATE PROCESS? OUR NEXT AGENDA ITEM, YOU KNOW, HOW DO YOU WORK IN HARMONY WITH THAT, WITH THE TOWN PARK THAT'S OVER THERE AND HOW DO WE IMPROVE THIS? 'CAUSE STORMWATER POND AND MOW GRASS IS NOT GONNA FOR ME. AND I, [03:45:01] I THINK WE'RE IN AGREEMENT ON THAT. THE PROPOSAL ISN'T JUST TO SHOW TWO PONDS, FOUR TREES AND THEN JUST MOW THE RUST. I AGREE. YEAH. I I LIKE THE WAY YOU PUT IT AS A IT IS A, IT IS A BLANK SLATE. SO THERE'S AN OPPORTUNITY TO DO SOMETHING REALLY NICE HERE AND IF WE'RE GOING TO CONSIDER THE CHANGE, WE, WE WANNA SEE SOMETHING REALLY NICE. FAIR ENOUGH. AND I WOULD BE INTERESTED IN, I DON'T KNOW, MAYBE THERE'S SOME SORT OF WAY TO HAVE SOME SORT OF, NOT TO BE THE AGRICULTURAL HERITAGE THAT WAS ALL ALONG THIS ROAD WITH SOMETHING. MAYBE THERE'S A COMMUNITY ORCHARD OR F TREES OR SOMETHING PLANTED OR ADDED INTO SOME OF THE OPENING SPACE AT THE, AT THE FRONT ENTRANCE AND THERE'S A SMALLER POCKET. MAYBE THERE'S SOMETHING THAT WE DO THAT I DON'T KNOW. YEAH, I WOULD, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE SOME CREATIVE IDEAS. AND I KNOW THAT YOU GUYS HAVE WORKED ON A LOT OF THESE PROJECTS, A LOT OF DEVELOPMENTS, A LOT OF INTEREST THINGS. I DON'T WANNA JUST SEE US HITTING THE MINIMUM OPEN SPACE AND GOING BACK TO A SM CLUSTER. WE JUST QUED EVERYTHING OVER. RIGHT. SO I I IT NEEDS TO BE A NEW PROJECT. IT CAN'T JUST BE A RECYCLED WHICH R TWO IS 25. THE COMBINED 25 TOTAL. OH. COMBINED R TWO. OKAY. BUT YOU COULD HAVE TWO TENS NEXT TO EACH OTHER. YOU COULD HAVE TWO TENS, RIGHT. 10. 10. BUT THE RIGHT BUT THE DISTANCE BETWEEN THE TWO BUILDING TESTS FOR 20. SHE WAS ASKING NO, THIS BE, THIS IS GONNA BE 2020. YOU HAVE TO HAVE 25 COMBINED ON YOUR LOT ON BOTH SIDES. RIGHT. YOU GET 10 ON ONE SIDE. 15. RIGHT. BUT YOU, YOU COULD HAVE 10 ON THIS ONE. 10 ON THIS ONE. RIGHT. FOR 20 BETWEEN THE BUILDINGS. RIGHT. YOU NEED 25 FOR THIS ONE BETWEEN THE BUILDING. NO, 20. NO IT IS 25 FEET ON YOUR LOCK. NO, BUT YOU COULD HAVE, YOU COULD HAVE 10 ON THE, YOU COULD HAVE TWO LOTS HERE AND HERE. 10. 10 SETBACK FOR THIS BUILDING. 10 SETBACK FOR THIS BUILDING. SO YOU HAVE 20 BETWEEN 'EM. BUT THE SETBACK ON THIS SIDE WOULD'VE TO BE 15 TO SETBACK ON THIS SIDE, RIGHT? THAT'S CORRECT. IT IS NOT EVENLY SPLIT 12 AND A HALF AND TWO AND A HALF I GUESS. ALRIGHT, LET'S DO A LOT DETAIL SHEET. I THINK THAT'LL ALL WE'LL DO ONE, RIGHT? I MEAN DOES THE MAJORITY OF THE BOARD THINK IT'S WORTH LOOKING AT THESE CHANGES? YES. BOB, I NEED MORE DISCUSSION. WHAT'S THAT? MORE DISCUSSION. OKAY. MEGAN? I THINK IT'S JUST LENGTHENED THE PROCESS. I'M OPEN TO DISCUSSING IT. I JUST THINK IT'S EXTENDED THE LENGTH OF THE WHOLE PROCESS. 'CAUSE IT KIND OF PUTS US BACK AT SQUARE ONE. WE'RE, WELL REMEMBER ONE ASPECT OF THIS PROJECT, THERE'S, AND PART OF THE REASON WE HAVEN'T DONE IS 'CAUSE WE'RE HOPING AT SOME POINT WE REACH YOUR CONSENSUS. EVERYONE'S WORKING DILIGENTLY. THERE'S STILL A LOT OF ENGINEERING. CHRIS NEEDS TO BE DONE. YEAH. ONCE HE PULLS THAT TRIGGER, YOU KNOW, THEN WE START CURRENT BIG EXPENSES AND IT GETS DIFFICULTY. SO WE REALIZE THIS HAS TAKEN A LONG TIME, BUT WE'VE PURPOSELY BEEN OKAY AS FAR AS WAITING TO DO THAT BECAUSE IT'S JUST GONNA BE EASIER IF WE WANNA REACH. YEAH. I DON'T MIND DISCUSSING. I JUST DIDN'T WANT FAIR ENOUGH TO HAVE PRESSURE THAT IT'S TAKING TOO LONG. OKAY. YES. DOUG, WHAT DO THE RESIDENTS THINK OF THIS? WE LOVE IT. WE LOVE IT. THAT'S WHY WE'RE HERE. YES. WE'VE BEEN HERE SINCE, WE'VE BEEN HERE SINCE SEPTEMBER. . I MEAN THERE'S NO COMPARISON KNOW TO THE OTHER PLANS. I MEAN, I, I THINK THAT NOBODY CAN ARGUE WITH THAT STATEMENT. I MEAN, YOU, YOU LOOK AT THIS VERSUS THE OTHER PLAN AND THERE'S, THERE'S A LOT MORE POTENTIAL DOING IT THIS WAY. UM, SO, SO I, I DON'T HAVE ANY PROBLEMS AS LONG AS THE NEXT TIME THEY COME IN, THAT'S THE FINAL PLAN. I DON'T WANNA BE DOING THIS UNTIL MY GRAVE COMES UP AT ALL . ALRIGHT. I JUST SAY THE NEXT PLAN, IF THEY COME IN WITH, THEY DON'T GET ANOTHER SHOT AFTER THAT AND I'M OPEN TO THAT AS CRAZY AS IT SOUNDS. ALRIGHT THEN, THEN IT'S, IT'S UNANIMOUS. THERE WE GO. OKAY, WE'LL WE'LL TAKE THE INPUT WE RECEIVED ON THAT PROJECT AND GET BACK IN TWO WEEKS. ALRIGHT. OKAY. SO I WILL MAKE A MOTION TO TABLE DAVID MANKO TO JUNE 2ND. SECOND. I'LL SECOND THAT. UH, MOTION BY MR. CLARK. SECOND BY ITS DENNIS CHAP. MR. CHAPMAN. ALL IN FAVOR? I WAS TRYING TO THINK OF A DIFFERENT NAME. . OKAY. SO, UM, IN, IN THE FOOD FOR EFFICIENCY, SINCE JOHN DOESN'T HAVE TO INCREASE ITSELF AGAIN. CAN I RUN THROUGH THE PART TWO OF THE FDAF LIKE I DID WITH THE LAST ONE? YEAH. A AB ABSOLUTELY. HOW ABOUT, DO YOU WANNA TALK ABOUT ANY CHANGES IN THIS ONE VERSUS THE LAST ONE? I WOULD SAY THAT THERE ARE SEVERAL [03:50:01] THINGS THAT ARE DIFFERENT AND I WANNA MAKE IT CLEAR TO THIS. SO YOU WANNA GO THROUGH THE WHOLE THING AGAIN, EVERYONE ISSUES, BUT LOOK AT THESE TWO, THESE TWO PROJECTS. THESE TWO PROPERTIES, THEY'RE CREDIBLY DIFFERENT PROPERTIES. OKAY. APPEAR AG LAND AND YOU HAVE ANOTHER VERY LARGE ALRIGHT, WENT. YEAH. SO, SO KAITLYN'S SO'S POINT, WE WENT THROUGH THE ENTIRE SHEET WITH ONE PROJECT AND THEN WE WENT THROUGH ENTIRE SECOND. SO NEXT ITEM ON THE AGENDA IS GLEN WETZEL REQUESTING REZONING OF VACANT LAND LOCATED ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF BIGTREE ROAD EAST OF 4 2 5 5 MCKINLEY PARKWAY FROM C ONE TO R ONE AND R FROM C ONE TO R THREE. UH, GOOD EVENING ONCE AGAIN. SEAN HOPKINS FROM HOPKINS, GEORGIA MCCARTHY ON BEHALF OF THE APPLICANT. WETZEL DEVELOPMENT LLC AND ALSO WITH ME IS GLEN WETZEL AND CHRISTOPHER WOOD. IN THE INTEREST OF TIME, OBVIOUSLY THIS IS ALSO SUBJECT TO COORDINATED ENVIRONMENTAL REVIEW. YOU'RE CONSIDERING THE CUMULATIVE IMPACTS OF BOTH THIS PROJECT AND THE ADJACENT MANCO SUBDIVISION, WHICH WAS A PREVIOUS ITEM ON THE AGENDA. SO PER THE DISCUSSION THAT WAS HELD IN CONNECTION WITH THE MANCO SUBDIVISION, UH, WE WELCOME THE OPPORTUNITY TO WALK THROUGH A DRAFT OF PART TWO AF BASED ON THE SUBCOMMITTEE THAT WILL PROVIDE US WITH THE ADDITIONAL OPPORTUNITY TO RESPOND TO THOSE UH, CATEGORIES THAT ARE CHECKED AS MODERATE TO LARGE. THEN I TURN IT OVER. ALRIGHT, SO ON ONE AGAIN, WE CHECKED MODERATE TO LARGE AGAIN FOR E, WHICH WAS THE CONSTRUCTION DURATION. AND FI THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WOULD BE GOOD FOR YOU GUYS TO PROVIDE AT SOME POINT AS PART OF THIS IS A PHASING PLAN ON HOW I, I'M ASSUMING YOU'RE NOT GONNA CONSTRUCT ALL THOSE BUILDINGS AT THE SAME TIME. THERE'S SOME OF THEM THAT YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO GET ACROSS THE ROAD AND SOME SORT OF INDICATION OF WHERE YOU'RE GONNA BE STOCKPILING AREAS AS YOU'RE PHASING THE DEVELOPMENT, YOU KNOW, AND CLEARING STUFF. 'CAUSE YOU ARE GONNA HAVE A LIMITED AREA TO WORK WITH, ESPECIALLY IF YOU GET TO THE LAST BILLINGS. JUST SOME NOTES ON E NOT INSURMOUNTABLE. I, TO ME THAT'S PART OF DETAILED DESIGN. OKAY. UH, AND THEN ONE F UH, I WOULD BE VERY INTERESTED TO CARRY OVER MY COMMENT ON THE UPSTREAM WATER OF THE US DOWNSTREAM. I THINK IT APPLIES ONE SIGNIFICANCE ELSEWHERE, BUT AGAIN THIS IS ALSO A LARGER DISTURBANCE AREA. CONCERN TO THE CAB AND AM I MYSELF ABOUT EROSION, PHYSICAL DISTURBANCE. AND IN THIS PARTICULAR PROJECT, EXTENSIVE VEGETATION CONSERVATION AREAS, UM, SOME SORT OF RIPARIAN BUFFER ALONG WITH WATER BODIES AND WETLANDS AREAS WOULD BE KEY VEGETATED A DECENT WIDTH. UM, BUT THAT'S ALSO A MODERATE TO LARGE IMPACT. AND I WANNA BE CLEAR TO EVERYBODY THAT THERE'S A SUBSTANTIAL AREA OF, I I THINK IT'S LIKE 25 ACRES OR 30 ACRES, UM, THAT HAD A CLEARING ASSOCIATED WITH THIS PROJECT. IT IS A LARGE AREA OF VEGETATED LAND CLEARING AND CONVERSION TO DEVELOPMENT. SO THAT'S ONE. F TWO WAS NO THREE WAS IMPACTS THE SURFACE WATER. UH, CHRIS, I THINK YOU WANNA REVISE YOUR RESPONSE ON THREE C WHICH WAS, IT'S SPECIFICALLY REFERRED TO DREDGING, BUT I WOULD SAY DREDGING OR EXCAVATION. AND YOU SAID THERE WAS NOT GONNA BE ANY REMOVAL OF SOIL FROM THE WETLAND, BUT WE HAVE A STORM WATER PUMP THAT I'M ASSUMING IS GONNA GRADE DOWNWARD AND WE NEED TO KNOW HOW MUCH YOU'RE GONNA REMOVE THERE VOLUME WISE. IT'S NOT GONNA LEAVE THE SITE. WE'RE NOT REMOVING IT FROM THE SITE. THAT'LL BE USED AS FILL ON SITE. WELL THAT'S, THAT'S A SEPARATE ISSUE. THIS JUST SAYS ARE YOU MOVING IT, IS IT MORE OR LESS? SO WE NEED TO KNOW HOW MUCH YOU'RE GONNA REMOVE, EVEN IF IT'S STAYING ON SITE. WE RECOGNIZE IT STAYING ON SITE, BUT THAT'S INDEPENDENT. UM, THIS AGAIN IS ANOTHER BIG DIFFERENCE. 3D WE ARE GONNA BE INVOLVING CONSTRUCTION. WAIT, SO THREE SEATED, THREE SEATED. YOU CHECK MODERATE TO LARGER. NO, WE DIDN'T CHECK ANYTHING 'CAUSE WE DIDN'T HAVE A NUMBER. OKAY, FAIR ENOUGH. OKAY. OKAY. WE JUST NEED THE NUMBER. OKAY. OKAY. UH, 3D WE'VE CHECKED MODERATE TO LARGE BECAUSE THERE IS CONSTRUCTION AND EXTENSIVE CONSTRUCTION OCCURRING ALONG THE BED AND BANKS OF THAT TRIBUTARY. AND BECAUSE THERE'S WORK GOING TO BE WITHIN THE WETLAND AS WELL AS ADJACENT TO IT. SO THAT'S MODERATE TO LARGE. AGAIN, SOME OF THE THINGS WE JUST TALKED ABOUT, MAYBE WAYS TO ADDRESS THE SIGNIFICANCE ISSUE. UM, PROPOSED TURBIDITY, THIS IS SAME AS BEFORE, IS E UPWARD EROSION, DISTURBING BOTTOM SEDIMENTS, RUNOFF AND THAT WHOLE DISCUSSION ABOUT ARIAN SOME SORT OF INTEGRATED RATING BUFFERING VEGETATION WOULD BE GREAT. UH, THE NEXT ONE. SO [03:55:01] WE ALSO CHECKED YES TO THREE HI AND DIDN'T HAVE ENOUGH INFORMATION TO ANSWER J SO H AND I ARE THE ONES WE TALKED ABOUT BEFORE ABOUT EROSION, INDUCTION WATER, WE TALKED ABOUT THAT A LOT. JI GUESS WE WOULD NEED, I DON'T KNOW WHO'S GONNA BE MANAGING THE PROPERTY THAT'S BEING BUILT. I KNOW MR. WEZEL ISS IN CHARGE OF CONSTRUCTION AND DEVELOPMENT, BUT A PROPERTY MANAGEMENT AGENCY WOULD BE IN CHARGE OF, HE'LL MANAGE. HE HIS, HE MANAGES IT, HIS PROPERTY MANAGEMENT. OKAY, WELL I DON'T KNOW WHAT THEIR LAND, THEIR LONG-TERM PLAN IS, BUT IF THEY'RE GONNA PLAN TO USE ANY PESTICIDES OR IDES OR ANY SPRAYING ON THE PROPERTY, I GUESS WE'D WANNA KNOW THAT WE DIDN'T HAVE ENOUGH INFORMATION TO ANSWER THAT. WE'LL FIND OUT. UM, FOUR WE HAD NO, UM, WE DID GO THROUGH THE SUBPARTS FIVE. SAME THING. THERE'S NO FLOODPLAIN. SO FIVE IS NO, SIX WAS NO, SEVEN IS WHERE WE GET TO SOME ITEMS. SO THE FIRST SEVERAL ARE ABOUT TE SPECIES. THERE'S NOTHING THAT POPS UP ON THE ENVIRONMENTAL RESOURCE MAP OR THE FUTURE WILDLIFE IPAC REPORTS. BUT NOT ALL OF IT IS ABOUT CONNECTED SPECIES. SO THE ONES OF CONCERN ARE SEVEN GI RECOMMEND EVERYBODY ON THE BOARD. IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE A PROTECTED OR A SPECIAL SPECIES FOR SEVEN G. IT COULD BE ANY SPECIES THAT IS TYPICALLY USING THAT HABITAT, EVEN IF IT'S COMMON, UM, FOR ANY OF THE PREDOMINANT SPECIES. SO THERE'S A LOT OF FORESTED AND VEGETATED HABITAT THAT'S GONNA BE LOST. THERE'LL BE LARGE IMPACT THERE. SO, SO IT'S LIKE A NESTING PLACE FOR STARLINGS IS GONNA GO AWAY. THAT'S SOMETHING WE HAVE TO CONSIDER. WELL THERE'S MORE THAN JUST STARLINGS BUT YES. MARKET AS LARGE, BUT I THINK SIGNIFICANT SPECIES ON THE SITE AS WELL. I DON'T THINK IT'S JUST STARLINGS. WELL I'M, I'M JUST USING THAT AS AN EXAMPLE OF SOMETHING THAT'S, THERE'S A MILLION OF THEM AND RATS. RIGHT? I COULD HAVE SAID RATS, YOU KNOW RIGHT WING BLACK BIRDS OR SOMETHING THAT ARE ALL OVER THE PLACE AND HONEYBEES WOULD'VE BEEN MORE BENEFICIAL THAN STARLINGS. RIGHT, BUT THAT'S WHAT YOU MEAN. LIKE ON SEVENTH HERE WE SAY YOU HAVEN'T CHECKED THE BOX YET. MORE INFORMATION. JUST WANNA MAKE SURE TRY. NO IT'S IS G IS LARGE TOMORROW. RIGHT. AND THEN H YOU TRIGGER THE SIZE THRESHOLD FOR CONVERSION. I WOULD, WE CONSIDER THAT TO BE FORESTED AND THERE'S MORE THAN 10 ACRES, UM, THAT ARE BEING CONVERTED. SO THAT'S A SIZE THRESHOLD AND IT WOULD BE GOOD TO SEE WHAT YOU GUYS THINK YOU CAN COME UP WITH ADDRESSING THAT. UM, WE ASSUMED THAT FOR THE DEVELOPMENT AND THAT THE PRO PRIMARY, UH, WELL I GUESS WE CHECKED I WE SAID NO TO SMALL HERE BUT I GUESS WE'D FIND ABOVE THE PESTICIDE USE FOR SEVEN. I UM, I HAVEN'T HEARD ANYTHING FROM THE CAB YET, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S ANYTHING THEY WANNA ADD UNDER SEVEN J FOR OTHER EIGHT AGRICULTURAL RESOURCES WE CHECKED. NO. SO WE SKIPPED THAT NINE WAS A NO. 10 IS THE SAME AS WE RESPONDED TO THE ADJACENT PROPERTY. IT IS A SEXED AREA BUT WE HAVE GOT THE REPORT AND I BELIEVE WE'RE WAITING ON CONCURRENCE FROM THE SHIPPO WITH THE BINDINGS, CORRECT? THAT'S CORRECT. THAT IS CORRECT. UM, 11 WE WRESTLED WITH AND LOOKED BACK AND FORTH. UH, THE WORKBOOK HAS SOME DEFINITIONS ON OPEN SPACE AND WHAT COUNTS AS OPEN SPACE. IT'S, IT LEAVES IT FAIRLY BROAD IN SOME OF THE EXPLANATION. SO, SO THERE ARE NATURAL FUNCTIONS AND ECOSYSTEM FUNCTIONS IN THIS UNDEVELOPED AREA. UH, SO WE CHECK MODERATE TO LARGE IMPACT HERE AND THOSE TIE INTO A LOT OF THE ITEMS THAT WE PREVIOUSLY CHECKED ON THEIR OTHER BOXES. UM, WE DID NOT RESPOND TO D THAT IS ABOUT THE AREA USED INFORM BY THE COMMUNITY AS OPEN SPACE RESOURCE. I GUESS THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION. IT DIDN'T FORMALLY HAVE THE SNOWMOBILE TRAIL, BUT WHETHER OR NOT PEOPLE ARE OTHERWISE PASSIVELY RECREATING IN THAT AREA THAT WAS OPEN TO INTERPRETATION. WE DIDN'T, WE WERE OPEN TO PUT ON THAT. 12 IS NO, 13 IS YES FOR THE SAME LEVEL OF SERVICE CHANGES THAT WERE IDENTIFIED AS PART OF THE COMPLIANT TRANSPORTATION ANALYSIS THAT WAS PROVIDED FOR THE TWO PROJECTS. UM, AND IT WILL OBVIOUSLY ALTER THE MOVEMENT OF PEOPLE GOODS AND I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS ON E FOR BOTH THESE PROJECTS WAS RELATED TO SIDEWALK INTERCONNECTIONS [04:00:01] AND THAT UM, THE MODERATE TO LARGE IMPACT PARTIALLY WITH THAT ALTERATION I THINK WITH E RELATED TO SIDEWALKS, WHICH MAY BE A POSITIVE ALTERATION BUT IT WAS STILL LIKE THEY HIT THE THRESHOLD. UM, 14. WE DIDN'T HAVE ENOUGH INFORMATION TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO ANSWER. TECHNICALLY THEY ARE RESIDENCES AND THEY DON'T FIT THE CRITERIA OF B BUT THERE'S A LOT OF SQUARE FOOTAGE OF BUILDING AREA AND THEY'RE COMMERCIALLY RENTED APARTMENTS. SO WE JUST DIDN'T HAVE ENOUGH INFORMATION TO FIGURE OUT THE BEST WAY TO ANSWER BEST ANSWERS FOR UM, C OR D. WE'RE ASSUMING THE ANSWER TO A IS NO AND IT, IT HITS THE NO CRITERIA FOR B. SO SEAN AND CHRIS, IF YOU WANTED TO PROVIDE US SOMETHING TO FOLLOW UP ON BACK UP TO ANSWER C AND D, THAT WOULD BE SHA. OKAY. OKAY. 15TH WE SAID NO, 16. WE AGAIN WENT THROUGH THIS LIST OF DETAIL. WE DIDN'T JUST SCREEN IT OUT, BUT WE DID CHECK NO THIS ALL FOR ALL OF THOSE. UM, AND 17 AND 18 AGAIN WE SKIPPED AND WOULD LIKE THE BOARD TO WEIGH IN ON THEIR THOUGHTS ON THE, HOW THIS TIES IN FOR VARIOUS PLANS. AND DREW DID A GREAT JOB OF LISTING A NUMBER OF THE OTHER COUNTY BROADER PLANS AND FOR THE PRIOR AGENDA ITEM. SO I WOULD SAY THAT ONES THAT ARE LARGEST OF CONCERNS ARE THE ONES RELATED TO WORK WITHIN AND ADJACENT TO WETLANDS AND WATER BODIES AS WELL AS THE GENERAL LARGE SCALE CONVERSION OF FOR THE VEGETATIVE LAND TO, UH, IMPROVE SURFACE AND AND BUILDINGS AND THEY TIE ACROSS MULTIPLE ITEMS. ALRIGHT, THANK YOU. THAT WAS THE FASTEST PART TO RUN THROUGH IN THAT LOCAL DETAIL THAT WE'VE PROBABLY DONE. WELL DONE CAITLIN. YES. CAITLIN, IS THERE ANY WAY YOU COULD EMAIL ME THOSE DRAFTS? UM, IT DOESN'T NEED TO BE RIGHT THIS SECOND, BUT I, I TRIED TO KEEP TRACK AND I THINK I DID A PRETTY GOOD JOB, BUT I CAN, I CAN. OKAY. YEAH, I JUST, I THINK IT'D BE EASIER. AND THEN ARE YOU, ARE YOU OKAY IF I HAVE ANY QUESTIONS AND I REACH OUT TO YOU OR SHOOT YOU AN EMAIL? UM, YEAH, I'D BE, I'D BE OKAY WITH. THANK YOU THAT I WILL WEIGH IN WITH JENNIFER IF YOU GET, UM, YEAH, I WILL. I I'M GONNA NEED THEM TOO. YEAH, I CAN SEND YOU THESE AS THEY ARE. I WOULD JUST LIKE TO CAVEAT THAT THERE'S SOME RANDOM HIGHLIGHTING THAT DOESN'T HAVE ANY NOTES AND IT DOESN'T NECESSARILY MEAN ANYTHING. THAT'S OKAY. THAT'S OKAY. AND AGAIN, WE KNOW THEIR DRAFTS, WE WE'RE ACKNOWLEDGING THEM. I WILL SEE IF I CAN FIND A WAY TO STAB THEM THIS DRAFT THEM AS WELL. THANK YOU. YEAH, NOT A PROBLEM. APPRECIATE IT. MM-HMM . BUT IF ANYBODY HAS ANY THOUGHTS, I AM HAPPY TO RUN THROUGH THEM OFFLINE INDIVIDUALLY AND THEN COMPILE RESPONSES IF PEOPLE HAVE THEM BEFORE OUR NEXT, UH, THE NEXT AGENDA THAT THEY ARE ON. BUT WE DID GO THROUGH BOTH THESE INDIVIDUALLY. THERE ARE SOME THINGS THAT ARE WEREN'T WARRANTED CONSIDERING ACROSS THEM, BUT THERE ARE AGAIN SOME POINTS OF AG PROJECT AND HAVE VERY DIFFERENT QUESTIONS OF WHAT IS FORESTED AND THEY'RE JUST VERY DIFFERENT. THEY'RE INDEPENDENTLY, THEY'RE VERY DIFFERENT SITES AND DIFFERENT PROJECTS AND I THINK IT'S WORTH KEEPING THAT IN MIND AS WE OKAY. IS THERE SOMETHING THAT WE SHOULD DISCUSS? 'CAUSE THERE'S, THERE'S A REASON WHY WE, WE KEEP PUTTING THESE TOGETHER ON THE AGENDA AND WE TOOK THE SEEKER PROCESS FROM THE TOWN BOARD FOR THE REZONING. ARE THERE CUMULATIVE IMPACTS WITH BOTH PROJECTS THAT WE SHOULD DISCUSS? I THINK THAT WAS PART OF THE, I I THINK THAT THE THINGS THAT WE STARTED TALKING ABOUT ARE EROSION, SEDIMENT CONTROL AND THE WORK ON THE WATER BODIES THAT ARE IN INTERCONNECTED. RIGHT. THAT HAS ALSO BEEN A VERY BIG POINT. THE TRAFFIC ANALYSIS, RIGHT? TRAFFIC ANALYSIS. YEP. ORIGINALLY SEWER WAS ONE OF THE TOPICS TO IDENTIFI DOWNSTREAM SEWER CAPACITY. I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE WE'RE NOT, WE'RE NOT LOSING ANY OF THOSE THINGS BY, BY GETTING INTO SUCH DETAIL ON BOTH OF THEM SEPARATELY. NO, BECAUSE I THINK LIKE SEPARATELY FOR EXAMPLE, LIKE THE TRAFFIC, IT WOULD BE AN IMPACT BUT NOT AS SIGNIFICANT AS WHEN YOU'RE DOING THEM BOTH TOGETHER AND, AND THE WATERWAY, IT MAKES A LOT OF SENSE TO TRY AND DO BOTH OF THEM TOGETHER. YEP. THE OTHER TWO, SO KEEP IN MIND I RUN THROUGH EVERYTHING BUT I DID NOT RUN THROUGH 17 AND 18 AND I THINK THAT IS WHERE SOME OF THE BIGGEST KEY FIELD OF IMPACTS [04:05:01] ARE, ARE COMMUNITY, CHARACTER, CHARACTER. YEP. OKAY. AND THE CONSISTENCY WITH COMMUNITY PLANS. UM, SO THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE REALLY NEED TO MAKE SURE WE LOOK AT CUMULATIVELY AS. ALRIGHT, THERE'S A, YOU LOOK AT THESE THINGS EVEN WHEN YOU GO PAST 'EM AND YOU KNOW, YOU LOOK AT THE SITE, YOU CHECK THINGS OUT, YOU'RE PULL OVER AND YOU LOOK AT THE MAPS AND YOU FORGET JUST HOW BIG SOME OF THESE ARE AND IT'S A GOOD REFRESHER. YOU MOSTLY LOOKING AT THE SIZE THRESHOLDS HERE. UM, 'CAUSE SOMETIMES I THINK WE DON'T ALWAYS LOOK THROUGH THAT IN GREAT DETAIL. OKAY. SO YOU GONNA ADD ANYTHING? NO, I THINK THAT, I THINK THAT WAS HELPFUL INFORMATION. OBVIOUSLY WE NEED SOME TIME TO DIGEST IT, BUT WE WILL DO THAT. WE'LL CONTINUE THE DISCUSSIONS. I WILL SEND THEM TO YOU FOR SAME MORNING. OKAY. UM, ANYTHING ELSE WE WANNA DISCUSS ON THIS PROJECT? YOU WANT COME BACK IN TWO WEEKS? YOU BE READY? I MEAN WE MIGHT AS WELL LEAVE HIM ON THE AGENDA. YEAH, I THINK WE GOTTA CONTINUE DISCUSSION. SO I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO TABLE GLEN WETZEL TO JUNE 2ND. SECOND. UH, MOTION BY MR. CLARK. SECOND BY MR. SHAW. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. MOTION CARRIED. EVERYONE HAVE GREAT EVENING. YEP. LEFT OF IT. TARA'S BEEN SITTING HERE FOR FOUR HOURS. SO NOAH, ARE YOU GONNA COME AROUND WITH A SNACK TRAY? POOR TARA. WELL, I MEAN, I, I GUESS NOW THAT I'M NOT WEARING A MASK, MAYBE I, I WAS, I STOPPED BRINGING, UH, DRINKS BECAUSE YOU CAN'T DRINK WITH A MASK ON. SO MAYBE, WE'LL, MAYBE WE'LL START THAT AGAIN. MAYBE DREW WILL COME BACK WITH COOKIES. IT'S BEEN A LONG TIME SINCE DREW BROUGHT COOKIES. WHEN EVERYBODY COMES, THERE'LL BE COOKIES. ALL RIGHT. WHEN EVERYBODY'S HERE, THERE'LL BE COOKIES. OKAY, NEXT ITEM ON THE AGENDA IS BROADWAY. YOUR VACCINATION CARD. . OKAY, I'M, I GOT IT. YOU WANNA SEE MINE? I GOT IT. I CARRY IT. UM, YOU GOT ME BOTH. NEXT ITEM AGENDA, BROADWAY GROUP A PLANNING BOARD TO DISCUSS DRAFT SCOPING DOCUMENT FOR THE ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT STATEMENT FOR THE DOLLAR GENERAL STORE PROPOSED ON VACANT LAND ON THE SOUTHWEST CORNER OF SOUTHWESTERN BOULEVARD AND HILLSVILLE. SO, SO THIS IS ON THE AGENDA. SO WE CAN, OUR, OUR PLAN IS TO HOLD A PUBLIC SCOPING SESSION ON JUNE 2ND, BUT WE'VE GOTTA MAKE A RESOLUTION TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT. CORRECT. WE ALSO NEED TO ACCEPT THE DRAFT SCOPE. SO IF THEY ACCEPT THEIR DRAFT SCOPE, AND BY THE WAY IT IS WORD FOR WORD OF THE MINIMUM RE WELL MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS OF A DRAFT SCOPE DOCUMENT, WE TYPICALLY ONLY REJECT, WHICH IS WHAT THEY USUALLY ARE DOCUMENT IF IT DOESN'T MEET THE MINIMUM REQUIREMENT. RIGHT. UM, AND IT DOES MEET THE MINIMUM REQUIREMENT AND IT ADDRESSED THE ISSUES THAT WERE IN OUR POSITIVE DECK. DOESN'T MEAN WE CAN'T ADD MORE, BUT IT ADDRESSED THE ISSUES IN THE POSITIVE. OKAY. SO, UM, I DID DO, UH, WHEN I ADD ANYTHING BEFORE WE, UH, NO, I, I DON'T THINK I HAVE ANYTHING TO ADD. I THINK, UM, THE INTENT OF THE PLANNING BOARD THIS EVENING, I, I FELT FROM YOUR, UM, INFORMAL DISCUSSION, THE LAST MEETING WAS TO ACCEPT IT AND UM, THEN TO SCHEDULE THE PUBLIC SCOPING SESSION, UM, AT OUR PUBLIC SCOPE SCOPING SESSION, WHICH, UM, I GUESS WOULD BE ON JUNE 2ND, WE WOULD HAVE, UM, A REPRESENTATIVE FROM FISHER HERE, UM, TO PRESENT THE DRAFT SCOPE AND MAKE A PRESENTATION OF THE PROJECT. AND SO, UM, WE'LL HAVE FILM HERE, UM, AS A RESOURCE AT THAT POINT. OKAY. SO, UM, I GUESS WE MAKE A MOTION TO ACCEPT THE DRAFT. I HAVE A, I HAVE A MOTION FOR YOU. I HAND OH YOU HAVE, THAT'S RIGHT. YES. THAT WAS, IT'S LIKE SIX DAYS AGO. YEAH. OKAY. I HAVEN'T LOOKED AT THIS YET. DO YOU HAVE MORE OF THESE? WHAT'S THAT? OKAY, SO BEFORE WE GET INTO THIS, UM, I MEAN THERE WAS SOME, SOME DISCUSSION ABOUT, UH, MAYBE TRYING TO DO IT AT A VENUE THAT WAS OUTSIDE. UM, I DON'T KNOW THAT THERE'S ANY HEALTH REASON WE'D HAVE TO DO THAT, BUT IT WILL BE JUNE AND THE WEATHER MIGHT BE NICE. IT MIGHT BE FUN TO TRY AND DO SOMETHING LIKE THAT. IS THAT SOMETHING WE WANT TO EXPLORE OR WE JUST PUT THAT ASIDE 'CAUSE IT'S TOO MUCH OF A HASSLE. TOO MUCH OF [04:10:01] A HASSLE. TOO MUCH OF A HASSLE HERE. OKAY. I THINK WE NEED TO CONSIDER THEM HAVING A, A VIRTUAL OPTION FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE STILL, ARE NOT COMFORTABLE OR FOR WHATEVER REASON CANNOT RECEIVE THE VACCINE. AND SO IT CAN'T BE IN LARGE GROUPS LIKE THIS. CAN WE, UH, I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S APPROPRIATE, BUT KIM IS HERE. SHE'S THE MOST EFFECTIVE NEIGHBOR AND I'VE ALSO BEEN HERE FOR FOUR HOURS. YES. KIM HAS LIKE A GOLD STAR TONIGHT. I'M JUST WONDERING HOW MANY PEOPLE YOU THINK, YOU KNOW. I, IT, IT IS HARD TO TELL, BUT I WOULD SAY TO, TO HAVE IT HERE WOULD BE WOULD BE FINE. UM, I AM GONNA BE PUBLICIZING TO OUR GROUP. YOU KNOW, THAT, THAT THEY CAN COME IF THEY WANT OR ALSO IF THEY WANNA DO IT VIRTUALLY THAT THEY CAN CONNECT TO DO THAT. IS THAT OKAY? YES. AND, AND, AND THIS, WE HAVE TO LEAVE. TYPICALLY YOU LEAVE COMMON PERIOD OPEN FOR A PERIOD OF TIME AFTER THAT MEETING. I JUST CONDUCTED . RIGHT. THE STATUTE REQUIRES US TO DO IT FOR LAST NIGHT. AND REMEMBER ALL WE'RE DOING HERE IS TAKING PUBLIC COMMENT. WE'RE NOT ANSWERING QUESTIONS, RIGHT. WE MAY ASK CLARIFICATION IF YOU DIDN'T UNDERSTAND WHAT THE COMMENT WAS. WE TAKE THAT COMMENT AND THEN BASED UPON THOSE COMMENTS AND ANY COMMENTS FROM AGENCIES, WE DEVELOP A FINAL SCOPE AND ISSUE THAT FINAL SCOPE. SO TO ME, CONSIDER TOO THAT PUBLIC HEARINGS ALWAYS BE THE FIRST THINGS ON THE AGENDA. WE, I WAS GONNA ASK THAT. IF WE, IF WE HAVE A NIGHT LIKE TONIGHT, AGAIN, PUBLIC HEARINGS ARE ALWAYS THE FIRST. OKAY. EXCEPT YOU HAVE THE WORK SESSION BEFORE AND YOU RIGHT. AND JUST, JUST FOR THE, IT IS NOT A PUBLIC HEARING, IT'S A PUBLIC SCOPING MEETING. THERE'S VERY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A PUBLIC HEARING AND A PUBLIC SCOPING. I THINK. YEAH. PUBLIC SCOPING MEETINGS AREN'T EVEN REQUIRED UNDER THE LAW. RIGHT. BUT TYPICALLY DONE WHEN THERE'S PUBLIC INTEREST INVOLVED TO DECIDE WHAT TIME YOU GONNA DO THE MEETING. WHAT TIME DO YOU WANNA HAVE A SCOPE? YOU DO HAVE A WORK SESSION. WELL, HOW MUCH DO WE HAVE ON THE AGENDA TOO? 'CAUSE IT'S THE SAME AS TONIGHT. HOW MANY THINGS ARE ON THE WORK SESSION? ONE. SO DO SIX O'CLOCK, WE WOULDN'T MIND. CAN WE DO IT AT SIX O'CLOCK AND HAVE THE SCOPING MEETING AHEAD OF THE WORK, THE WORK SESSION IMMEDIATELY TO FOLLOW? YEAH, WE COULD DO THAT. UM, AS, AS FAR AS THE WORK SESSION, IT STARTS RESIDENTS TO BE ABLE TO COME IN AND THEN TO LEAVE. I MEAN, THEY DON'T NEED TO SIT THROUGH THIS AGAIN, RIGHT ON THE AGENDA. AND I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHAT TIME, JUST BECAUSE I NEED TO START PUBLICIZING SO THE PEOPLE CAN, THE TIME WILL BE IN THE RESOLUTION WHEN IT'S FINALLY DECIDED. OKAY, THANK YOU. SO, UM, I MEAN, AS, AS FAR AS WORK SESSIONS GO, YOU KNOW, TODAY WE WENT UNTIL EIGHT O'CLOCK ON THE WORK SESSION. I, I THINK WE, WE GOTTA REMEMBER THAT IT'S THE FIRST TIME WE SEE THE PROJECT. WE DON'T NEED ALL THE ANSWERS AT THE WORK SESSION. AND I, I THINK SOMETIMES WE TRY AND PLAN THE WHOLE PROJECT WHEN IT FIRST COMES IN FRONT OF US. AND THAT'S NOT REALLY AN EFFICIENT USE OF OUR TIME. I THINK WHAT WE SHOULD DO IS LOOK AT THE PROJECT AND SEE IF IT, IF WE THINK IT'S WORTH PUTTING ON THE REGULAR AGENDA. IF THE ANSWER IS YES, WE DON'T NEED TO FIGURE OUT WHERE THE GARBAGE IS GOING AND HOW MANY EMPLOYEES AND THEN, AND SOLVE THE PARKING ISSUES. THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE REGULAR MEETINGS FOR. SO I, I'D LIKE TO JUST, YOU KNOW, BRING THAT UP. IF, IF WE DID THE WORK SESSION IN HALF AN HOUR, LIKE WE SET ASIDE, IF WE DID 10 MINUTES FOR EACH PROJECT, IT WOULDN'T BE 10 30 RIGHT NOW. SO BECAUSE IT'S, I MEAN, THEY'RE LONG, THESE, IT'S, UH, THEY'RE, THEY'RE GETTING REALLY LONG NOT TO PUT SO MANY THINGS ON THE, UH, ON THE WORK SESSION BECAUSE I MEAN, THERE ARE QUESTIONS THAT HAVE TO BE ASKED, UH, AND ANSWERED. I MEAN, THEY'RE LOOKING FOR DIRECTION, RIGHT? THEY'RE, THEY'RE LOOKING FOR BROAD SCOPE DIRECTION, SO WE DON'T HAVE TO ANSWER EVERY QUESTION. THE BASE, THE BASIC QUESTION THE APPLICANT HAS AT A WORK SESSION IS, IS IT WORTH IT FOR US TO PAY THE FEE TO COME BACK IN FRONT OF YOU? WELL, HOW ABOUT WE FIGURE OUT THIS? OKAY. AND THEN WE OKAY, AND ANOTHER TIME HAVE A LIKE RIGHT ORGANIZATIONAL MEETING AND FIGURE OUT THE WORK SESSION AND DONE THIS STUFF. SO, OKAY, SO WE'RE ALL IN AGREEMENT THAT JUNE 6TH WILL COME HALF AN HOUR EARLIER THAN USUAL, COME AT SIX TO HAVE THE PUBLIC SCOPING SESSION, SIX 30 WORK SESSION, SEVEN O'CLOCK MEETING. YES. AND THEN THERE'LL BE A VIRTUAL COMPONENT, LIKE A FACEBOOK COMPONENT OR SOMETHING? YES. IT'LL BE BROADCAST ON FACEBOOK, YES. OKAY. YES, ABSOLUTELY A HUNDRED PERCENT. BUT YOU SAY VIRTUAL YOU, YOU DON'T MEAN WEBEX THOUGH, RIGHT? NOT WEBEX, BUT, BUT WE'RE STILL GONNA BE BROADCASTING ON FACEBOOK. SURE. SO RESIDENTS WILL BE ABLE TO PARTICIPATE VIRTUALLY, RIGHT? SO IF THEY CAN'T MAKE IT OR FOR WHATEVER REASON, RIGHT? OKAY. [04:15:02] SO WHEREAS THE TOWN OF HAMBURG PLANNING BOARD RECEIVED A SITE PLAN APPLICATION FROM THE BROADWAY GROUP LLC FOR THE CONSTRUCTION OF A DOLLAR GENERAL STORE AND RELATED ACCESSORY USES ON SOUTHWESTERN BOULEVARD AND ITS INTERSECTION WITH HEALTH ROAD. AND WHEREAS THE HAMBURG PLANNING BOARD REVIEWED THE APPLICATION AND REVISIONS TO THE APPLICATION AT MEETINGS OF AUGUST 20TH OR AUGUST, 2020 TO JANUARY, 2021. AND WHEREAS IN ACCORDANCE WITH PART 6 1 7 OF THE IMPLEMENTING REGULATIONS PERTAINING TO ARTICLE EIGHT STATE ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY REVIEW ACT, SEEKER OF THE ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION LAW, THE HAMBURG PLANNING BOARD INITIATED A SEEKER COORDINATED REVIEW PROCESS FOR THIS UNLISTED ACTION AND ESTABLISHED THE PLANNING BOARD AS THE LEAD AGENCY. AND WHEREAS THE HAMBURG PLANNING BOARD IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE STATE ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY REVIEW ACT DETERMINED THAT THE PROPOSED APPROVAL OF A SITE PLAN AND CONSTRUCTION OF A DOLLAR GENERAL MAY INCLUDE THE POTENTIAL FOR AT LEAST ONE SIGNIFICANT ADVERSE ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT AND THEREFORE ISSUE A POSITIVE DECLARATION. AND WHEREAS EIS PROCESS WOULD START ONCE THE APPLICANT SUBMITS A DRAFT SCOPING DOCUMENT AND SUCH DOCUMENT HAS BEEN RECEIVED BY THE TOWN NOW, THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED THAT THE HAMBURG HAMBURG PLANNING BOARD ACCEPTS THE DRAFT SCOPING DOCUMENT SUBMITTED BY THE APPLICANT AS IT MEETS THE MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS OF THE SEEKER LAW AND SETS A PUBLIC SCOPING MEETING ON THE DRAFT SCOPING DOCUMENT AT THE HAMBURG TOWN HALL, 6 1 0 0 SOUTH PARK AVENUE, HAMBURG, NEW YORK AT 6:00 PM ON JUNE 2ND, 2021. SO IT'S MOTION BY MR. CLARK. SECOND. SECOND BY MR. MAHONEY. ALL IN FAVOR, AYE. AYE. MOTION CARRIED AND CHAIR, I WOULD CLOSE PEOPLE KNOW ABOUT THE PROJECT. I WOULD DO A VERY SMALL PRESENTATION AND JUST HAVE A BOARD THERE MAYBE BEFORE THE MEETING SO PEOPLE CAN SEE IT. THAT WAY WE CAN HOPEFULLY GET THROUGH THE SCOPING MEETING IN ABOUT A HALF HOUR OR 45 MINUTES, IF NOT THAT. I WANT TO KEEP BRINGING STUFF UP THIS LATE. BUT, UH, YOU MENTIONED A BOARD SO PEOPLE CAN SEE IT. WHEN I, I HEARD ON THE NEWS TODAY THAT THERE WAS AN AUDIT OF NEW YORK STATE PLANNING BOARDS AND MOST OF THEM FAILED IN THEIR NOTICE REQUIREMENTS FOR POSTING DOCUMENTS FOR THE MEETINGS. SO I WAS GONNA HAVE JENNIFER LOOK INTO ACTUALLY WHAT OUR REQUIREMENTS ARE TO BE POSTED BEFORE THE MEETINGS BECAUSE THE, THE, THE NEWS ARTICLE I HEARD SEEMED TO INDICATE THAT SOME OF THE PICTURES AND THINGS SHOULD BE MADE AVAILABLE TO THE PUBLIC BEFORE THE MEETINGS. AND THERE'S EVEN A LAW BEING CONSIDERED IN NEW YORK STATE THAT SOMEWHAT GOES ALONG WITH OUR LAW. WE, WE CUT OFF THE STUFF THAT COULD BE, UH, OR OUR RULE, NOT OUR LAW, THE, THE STUFF THAT CAN BE PRESENTED A FEW DAYS BEFORE THE MEETING. SO CAN YOU MAKE SURE THAT IF THE, FIGURE OUT WHAT THE POSTING REQUIREMENTS ARE AND, AND IF THERE ARE WHAT THEY ARE AND IF WE'RE MEETING THEM. 'CAUSE WE WEREN'T ONE OF THE PLACES AUDITED, BUT I WOULD HATE TO NOT BE COMPLYING WITH OPEN GOVERNMENT RULES. YES, I WILL LOOK INTO IT AND I WILL TALK TO SARAH. OKAY, THANKS JOHN. THANKS. I DO HAVE A QUESTION. DREW, YOU CAN PROBABLY ANSWER IT THE BEST OF YOUR EXPERTISE. THE, UM, AND I NOTICED IT'S IN YOUR SUMMARY HERE, BUT THE NOTIFICATION TO THE OTHER INTERESTED PARTIES IS THAT STARTING LIKE TOMORROW, LIKE RIGHT AFTER THE RESOLUTION TONIGHT? WE HAVE TO, WE HAVE TO SEND THAT OUT. UH, SO THEY'VE ISSUED THE RESOLUTION. SARAH HAS A LIST OF, WE HAVE TO SEND IT TO INVOLVED AGENCIES. WE HAVE TO PUT A NOTICE IN THE EMB AND, AND BASICALLY IN THAT NOTICE SAY THAT WE'RE HAVING THIS MEETING ON, ON JUNE 2ND. SO YES, SARAH IS GONNA TAKE CARE OF THAT TOMORROW. IT'S GOTTA GO OUT TOMORROW. OKAY, GREAT. AND AS YOU KNOW, IT'S IN MY MEMO, WE HAVE 60 DAYS TO, TO ISSUE THAT FINAL SCOPE. SO THE HOPE IS TO ISSUE THAT FINAL SCOPE IN OUR SECOND JUNE DATE. UH, BY ALL MEANS, YOU CAN BEGIN WORKING AND I'M SURE YOU HAVE ALL THE DRAFT, RIGHT? YEAH, NO, OUR CONSULTANT HAS DEFINITELY TAKING LONG. WELL, THANK YOU ALL. I KNOW Y'ALL HAD A VERY LATE NIGHT AND I APPRECIATE YOUR TIME INTENTION REQUEST. I'M SO RIGHT. WE'LL BUG OUT LATER. I THINK A MOTION TO AMEND THE MEETING FROM THE MAY 5TH MEETING TO UPDATE THE DATE TO 2021 ON THE LAST PAGE AND THEN APPROVE THEM. OKAY. SO MOTION TO AMEND THE MINUTES TO, UH, REFLECT THE CORRECT YEAR AND APPROVE [04:20:01] THE, THE MINUTES OF THE MAY 5TH, 2021 PLANNING BOARD MEETING BY, THIS IS MCCORMICK. I'LL SECOND IT. SECONDED BY, THIS IS . ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. AYE. MOTION CARRIED. YOUR TURN. YOUR TURN, DOUG. ALREADY IT IS, I THINK THE MOTION IN MOTION BY MR. SHAW TO ADJOURN SECOND BY COURT, DENNIS. NOW ACT TO AMEND MINUTES. SECOND, UH, THERE'S NO SECOND RENA. OH NO, I SECOND. SECOND. WE'LL ALL SECOND. OKAY. SECOND. BY MRS. GIE . MR. ALL IN FAVOR? A AYE. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.