[00:17:44]
[00:17:52]
YEAH,[00:17:52]
BUT[00:17:53]
I THINK THE MEETING BECAUSE OF WE, THE ORDER CALLED DENNIS, WE'RE GONNA GET STARTED.SO WE'VE GOT TWO ITEMS ON THE WORK SESSION TODAY.
THE FIRST ONE, DAVID ISH REQUESTING FRESH, REQUESTING A SPECIAL USE PERMIT TO OPERATE AN AIRBNB AT 4 7 0 8 CLIFTON PARKWAY.
YOU GUYS, UH, BEFORE I LET THE APPLICANT PRESENT HIS PROJECT, YOU'VE SEEN THE HISTORY OF WHY WE'RE HERE TONIGHT.
UH, BASICALLY, AND I SENT JENNIFER AS A COPY.
THERE'S A SUPREME COURT RULING SAYING THAT OUR ZONING CODE, ALTHOUGH IT SPECIFICALLY DOES NOT ALLOW AIRBNBS IN AN R ONE ZONING DISTRICT, THE INTERPRETATION OF THE SUPREME COURT WAS THAT, THAT BECAUSE OUR CODE WASN'T SPECIFIC, IT REFERS TO EXCLUDING FOUR AND FIVE AND NOT SIX, THEREFORE WOULD ALLOW IT.
I WOULD DISAGREE WITH THAT, BUT I CAN'T DISAGREE WITH THE SUPREME COURT BECAUSE IT'S A SPECIAL USE PERMIT.
IT'S NOT A PRINCIPLE, BUT WE HAVE NO SAY ON THAT.
THEY HAVE TO HAVE TO COME HERE.
BASICALLY, IT'S A SPECIAL USE PERMIT TO OPERATE AN AIRBNB.
UH, THE TOWN YEARS AGO, I WAS INVOLVED IN THAT.
UM, WE DIDN'T CHANGE ANYTHING TO CODES.
WE BASICALLY, WHEN AIRBNBS FIRST START, STARTED TO COME AROUND THE TOWN SAID, WELL, HOW DOES AIRBNBS FIT INTO OUR ZONING CODE? WE INTERPRETED THAT IT WOULD FALL UNDER TOURIST HOMES AND, AND BED AND BREAKFAST, THAT IT'S THE SAME THING.
SO WE CHANGED THE DEFINITION SECTION OF OUR CODE TO SAY THAT TOURIST HOMES INCLUDE, UH, AIRBNBS.
SO ANY, AND WHAT WE THOUGHT IS OUR CODE SAYS, OKAY, ANYWHERE YOU ALLOW TOURIST HOMES, YOU WOULD ALLOW AIRBNBS BY SPECIAL USE PERMIT.
SO IN THIS CASE, WE DIDN'T THINK, BUT THE, THE INTERPRETATION OF THE SUPREME COURT WAS, IT'S ALLOWED ON AN R ONE ZONE.
SO, UH, THIS GENTLE, THIS GENTLEMAN HAS TO APPEAR BEFORE YOU TO GET A SPECIAL USE PERMIT.
THERE ARE STRONG CRITERIA IN THE SPECIAL USE PERMIT, UH, FOR GETTING A SPECIAL USE PERMIT FOR AIRBNB.
NO MATTER WHERE YOU ARE IS BASICALLY ONE OF THE MAJOR CRITERIA IS, IS YOU HAVE TO LIVE THERE.
[00:20:01]
IT'S NOT A RENTAL IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE FOR, FOR PEOPLE COMING, BUT YOU'LL SEE THE LIST THERE.I'LL LET THE GENTLEMAN PRESENT HIS PROJECT, YOU KNOW, THE PROCESSES AND PROCEDURES.
BASICALLY, YOU WOULD HAVE TO, ONCE YOU HAVE, YOU BELIEVE YOU HAVE ENOUGH INFORMATION, YOU'D HAVE TO CALL PUBLIC HEARING.
YOU'VE ALSO RECEIVED A LETTER FROM ADJOINING PROPERTY OWNER, UH, THAT'S IN THE RECORD.
UM, YOU'LL ALSO HAVE TO HOLD A PUBLIC HEARING AND RECEIVE COMMENTS.
AND THEN, AS YOU KNOW, WITH ANY SPECIAL USE PERMIT, YOU HAVE TO MAKE SPECIFIC FINDINGS.
STATE LAW IS, YOU HAVE TO MAKE SPECIFIC FINDINGS ON THE RECORD, THE FOUR GENERAL FINDINGS, WHICH ARE THE FOUR CRITERIA THE STATE LAW HAS, AND THEN OUR LAW HAS, I FORGET HOW MANY 10 SPECIFIC FINDINGS YOU HAVE TO MAKE.
SO WITH THAT, I'LL LET THE GENTLEMAN MAKE HIS PRESENTATION.
DO YOU, YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS OF ME FROM A PROCESS STANDPOINT? SO ARE, SO WHAT YOU JUST SAID, A BED AND BREAKFAST AND AIRBNB ARE, ARE THE SAME THING, AND A TOURIST HOME ARE ALL DEFIED CODE, BUT IT IT'S THE SAME.
IT'S DESCRIPTION, SAME DESCRIPTION.
WE SAID UNDER DEFINITION SECTION OF THE CODE TOURIST HOME IS AN AIR INCLUDES AIRBNB AND IT INCLUDES A BED AND BREAKFAST.
SO WE DEFINE THEM ALL THE SAME.
SO TOUR SNOWMAN AIRBNB ARE RIGHT THE SAME.
AND AIRBNBS TEND TO BE, AND NOW I'LL, I'LL ADMIT AIRBNBS, THAT WAS THE DECISION OF THE TOWN, THE LEGISLATIVE BOARD, WHICH YOU CAN DO.
PEOPLE SAY AIRBNBS ARE DIFFERENT THAN BED AND BREAKFAST.
AIRBNBS ARE DIFFERENT THAN TOURIST HOMES, BUT THE TOWN OF HAMBURG CONSIDERS THEM THE SAME.
CAN I ASK ANOTHER QUESTION? I'VE NEVER HEARD THE TERM TOURIST HOME UNTIL TODAY.
WELL, IT'S A TOURIST HOME THAT, THAT WAS THE INTERESTING PART IS THAT, AND GOOD QUESTION.
THE TOWN BEFORE ONLY HAD TOURIST HOMES, AND IT'S A HOLDOVER FROM PROBABLY 30, 40 YEARS AGO.
THE TOWN DID NOT WANNA CHANGE ALL THE CODE.
THEY JUST KEPT ADDING, ADDING ADDITIONAL DEFINITION TOURIST HOMES.
WHEN, WHEN BED AND BREAKFAST HAS STARTED, THEY ADDED IT.
I LOOKED AT THE HISTORY OF THIS 'CAUSE THEY ADDED IN BED AND BREAKFAST, AND THEN WHEN AIRBNBS BECAME POPULAR, THEY ADDED IT IN AIRBNBS.
SO WHAT IS A TOURIST HOME? SO COTTAGES WOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED TOURIST HOMES.
WHAT'S THAT? COTTAGES, THE WORD COTTAGE.
IS IT LIKE A, IS IT LIKE A VACATION HOME, LIKE A SECONDARY HOME? WELL, YOU HAVE TO AND HOW AND, AND HOW, AGAIN WE'VE INTERPRETED THAT IN THE PAST IS THAT ALL THE RE YOU WOULD BE CONSIDERED A TOURIST HOME, A BED AND BREAKFAST OR WHATEVER, A TOURIST HOME AS WHAT'S DEFINED IN THE SPECIAL USE PERMIT.
SO IF YOU MEET THOSE CRITERIA, YOU ARE BY DEFINITION A TOURIST HOME.
SO YOU'RE RIGHT, TOURIST HOME IS KIND OF, IT SAYS IN THE CODE WHAT IT IS, BUT IT ALSO INCLUDES AIRBNBS AND, AND, AND, AND BED AND BREAKFAST.
THE GEN GENTLEMAN HAS A RIGHT, BASED UPON THE INTERPRETATION OF THE SUPREME COURT, THAT BASICALLY THEY CAN APPLY FOR SPECIAL USE PERMIT, YOU KNOW, THE PROCESS OF SPECIAL USE PERMIT.
IT'S A DISCRETIONARY DECISION BASED UPON YOU MAKING FINDINGS OF THOSE.
YOU HAVE GENERAL FINDINGS AND VERY SPECIFIC FINDINGS.
THE SPECIFIC FINDINGS ALMOST DEFINE WHAT WE CONSIDER AN AIRBNB.
IT'S DIFFERENT THAN HOW THE CITY OF BUFFALO CONSIDERS AN AIRBNB.
I WAS INVOLVED IN THAT WITH THEM TRYING TO FIX THE DEFINITION OF THAT.
WHAT AN EACH COMMUNITY DEFINES THEM DIFFERENTLY.
UM, YEAH, WE, WE DO RENT THE, THE WHOLE HOUSE AND, UH, IT'S A THREE PLUS BEDROOM HOUSE, UH, TWO BATHS, SLEEPS EIGHT.
AND I USUALLY, UH, CHECK THE BACKGROUNDS OF ALL THE PEOPLE THAT ARE STAYING THERE.
UH, THIS YEAR THERE WAS A FEW PEOPLE I DIDN'T MEET.
UH, I USUALLY LIKE TO MEET THE PEOPLE.
UH, WE GENERALLY RENT TO FAMILIES.
WE ENDEAVOR TO RENT TO ONLY FAMILIES, UM, OR MOSTLY FAMILIES, I SHOULD SAY.
I HAVE A LIST OF THE DIFFERENT PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, SIX ADULTS, TWO CHILDREN, FOUR ADULTS, TWO CHILDREN.
UM, AND I KNOW THERE WAS A COUPLE LOOK AT THIS TOWN'S BED AND BREAKFAST LAW.
PARDON? HAVE YOU HAD A CHANCE TO REVIEW THE TOWN'S BED AND BREAKFAST LAW TO SEE IF YOU MEET THE CRITERIA? I WENT OVER IT WITH MS. DE JARDEN, AND SHE FELT LIKE WHAT I WAS DOING FELL WITHIN THE PARAMETERS OF A BED AND BREAKFAST.
BUT I ACTUALLY WENT THROUGH VACATION RENTALS, WHICH IS SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT.
UH, BUT, YOU KNOW, I ENDEAVORED TO RENT TO GOOD PEOPLE.
I KNOW I DID HAVE A GROUP IN THERE THAT WAS NOISY.
I WENT OVER AND TALKED TO THEM AND THEY TURN THE MUSIC DOWN.
UH, BUT GENERALLY, YOU KNOW, IT WAS PEOPLE THAT USED TO LIVE IN THE AREA.
THEY COME BACK, THEY LOVE THE HOUSE, THEY COME AND SPEND THEIR MONEY IN THE AREA AND, YOU KNOW, DO YOU KNOW, OR DID YOU EVER LIVE IN THAT HOUSE? OH YEAH.
AND WHEN WAS THAT? I LIVE IN THE HOUSE WHEN I'M NOT RENTING IT, BUT WHEN, WHEN YOU, WHEN YOU RENT IT, YOU'RE NOT THERE.
YOU KNOW, THE CLOSE YOU HAVE TO, YOU HAVE TO LIVE.
I JUST, HOW OFTEN DO YOU LIVE THERE? PARDON? HOW MUCH TIME DO YOU SPEND THERE? HOW MUCH TIME DO I SPEND THERE? YEAH.
UH, USUALLY WE JUST RENT IT IN THE SUMMER FOR TWO, TWO AND A HALF MONTHS.
SO YOU, YOU STAY IN IT THE OTHER NINE AND A HALF, AND THEN WE STAY THERE THE REST OF
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THE TIME.SOMETIMES WE'LL RENT IT ON A WEEKEND FOR EXTRA INCOME.
SO WHERE ARE YOU STAYING HERE? WHERE ARE YOU, ARE YOU RESIDING SOMEWHERE ELSE? DO YOU HAVE A SECOND HOME THAT YOU'RE LIVING IN WHILE YOU'RE NOT THERE? I MEAN, YES.
PEOPLE ASK ME THAT ALL THE TIME.
AND, AND THIS IS YOUR PRIMARY RESIDENCE? OR IS THIS YOUR SECONDARY RESIDENCE? UH, IT IS OUR PRIMARY RESIDENCE IN HAMBURG.
BUT IS IT YOUR PRIMARY RESIDENCE OVERALL? I MEAN, YOU HAVE OTHER PROPERTY? YEAH, WE LIVE THERE ABOUT NINE MONTHS OUT OF THE YEAR.
WE RENT IT FOR A COUPLE MONTHS IN THE SUMMER.
SO I GUESS WHEN YOU DECLARE YOUR PRIMARY RESIDENCE FOR TAX PURPOSES OR WHATEVER IS AT THIS PROPERTY, SAY AGAIN.
WHEN YOU DECLARE YOUR PRIMARY RESIDENCE ON YOUR TAXES OR FOR OTHER THINGS, IS THIS WHAT YOU WOULD CONSIDER YOUR PRIMARY PROPERTY? YES.
WHERE ARE YOU REGISTERED TO VOTE? PARDON? WHERE ARE YOU REGISTERED TO VOTE? I CAN'T HEAR THAT.
WELL, WHERE ARE YOU REGISTERED TO VOTE AT THAT ADDRESS? I GO RIGHT TO THE, UH, STATION ON, UM, AND THAT'S AT THE CLIFF, RUN THE CORNER FROM MY HOUSE THERE ON ROGERS ROAD.
SO THAT YOU'RE, YOU'RE REGISTERED FROM THE CLIFTON ADDRESS? YEAH.
YEAH, BUT I LIVE, I LIVED THERE FOR ABOUT NINE MONTHS OUT OF THE YEAR.
AND CURRENT, ARE YOU CURRENTLY RUNNING IT NOW? I WAS BY THERE AND I SAW SOME NEW HAMPSHIRE LICENSE PLATES, YEAH.
WHEN THE, WHEN THE CODE ENFORCEMENT OFFICER CAME BY AND HE CITED YOU, WHAT, WHAT WAS, WHAT WERE YOU TOLD? WHAT WAS HE TOLD AND WHAT, WHAT WERE YOU, WHAT WERE YOU TOLD WHEN THE ENFORCEMENT OFFICER WENT THERE AND GAVE, I DIDN'T TALK TO THE ENFORCEMENT OFFICER.
I TALKED TO MR. DARDAN AND WELL, SHE'S NOT THE ENFORCEMENT OFFICER.
WHAT DID THEY TELL YOU WHEN YOU GOT CITED? THAT'S WHAT I WANT.
THEY SAID, TALK TO THE PLANNING BOARD AND SEE IF YOU CAN GET A SPECIAL, UH, VARIANCE, UH, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER YOU CALL IT.
BUT YOU WERE AWARE THEN THAT YOU WERE, YOU WEREN'T IN, IN, IN CONFORMANCE WITH, WITH OUR CODE AND THE SPECIAL USE PERMIT.
HE, I THINK THAT THEY WANTED ME TO COME IN BECAUSE THE TOWN IS GETTING SOME PUSHBACK FROM A NEIGHBOR, BECAUSE I HAD A COUPLE LOUD RENTERS.
AND SO WHAT, FROM WHAT I, UH, YOU KNOW, LEARNED FROM TALKING TO THE, UM, BUILDING PEOPLE, BUILDING DEPARTMENT, PEOPLE, THEY WANNA KIND OF MAKE SURE I GOT ALL MY DUCKS IN A ROW SO THAT IT COVERS BOUNCES.
WELL, LET ME ASK YOU, I I, I'M, I'M SORRY IF I'M NOT ANSWERING YOUR QUESTIONS.
MY QUESTION, WHAT I'M REALLY TRYING TO GET TO THE CORE OF IT IS YOU JUST BOUGHT THIS PLACE, FIXED IT UP, RENTED UP, AND NEVER CHECKED WITH THE TOWN TO SEE WHAT THE REGULATIONS WERE.
WELL, I'VE DONE A LITTLE BIT, YES OR NO.
I MEAN, DID YOU SAY, OKAY, I CAN'T RENT THIS TILL I GO TO THE TOWN? OR DID YOU JUST RENT IT AND THEN DECIDE? NO.
I, I DID A LITTLE RESEARCH AND IT JUST SEEMED LIKE PEOPLE IN HAMBURG WERE RENTING AND THERE WAS NO PERMITS THAT WERE NECESSARY ACCORDING TO WHAT I WAS READING.
I THINK PERHAPS WHAT MR. CHAPMAN IS GETTING AT IS WHEN THE CODE ENFORCEMENT OFFICER CAME, DID HE TELL HE, OR DID THE CITATION SAY THAT YOU WERE NOT ALLOWED TO OPERATE AS A VACATION RENTAL UNTIL YOU HAD A SPECIAL USE PERMIT? I THINK THAT, NO, I, UH, HE DIDN'T SAY THAT BECAUSE I DIDN'T TALK TO HIM AT THE HOUSE.
I TALKED TO HIM OVER THE PHONE.
I TALKED TO PAUL AND THEN ANOTHER GENTLEMAN, AND THEY SAID, WELL, JUST TALK TO, UH, MS. DARDAN AND TALK TO THE PLANNING BOARD THAT THEY DIDN'T SAY, YOU KNOW, STOP RENTING OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
WHAT WERE YOU TOLD WHEN YOU, WHEN YOU WENT TO THE PLANNING BOARD WITH MS. D? WHAT, WHAT DID, WE'RE THE PLANNING BOARD, WELL, YOU GUYS ARE THE PLANNING BOARD? NO.
WHEN, WHEN YOU WENT TO MS. D, WHAT ADVICE DID SHE GIVE YOU? UH, SHE WAS VERY FRIENDLY, VERY NICE.
AND SHE SAID THAT YOU'RE GONNA KIND OF MAYBE BE A TEST CASE BECAUSE WE HAVEN'T, UM, TOLD OTHERS THAT THEY HAVE TO HAVE A PERMIT.
AND SO, YOU KNOW, I JUST FIGURED I WOULD DO WHAT THE TOWN WAS TELLING ME TO DO AND COME AND TALK TO YOU GUYS.
I MEAN, THE, THE REALLY TOUGH THING HERE IS FOR THE SPECIAL USE PERMIT, UM, THERE'S A LOT OF CRITERIA IS ONE OF THEM IS GUEST FROM LIVING QUARTERS SHALL NOT CONSTITUTE A SEPARATE DWELLING UNIT AND SHALL NOT BE LEASED OR RENTED AS SUCH.
SO IF YOU'RE NOT THERE, THEN YOU'RE RENTING A SEPARATE DWELLING UNIT AND THE CODE SAYS WE SHOULDN'T DO THAT FOR BED AND BREAKFAST.
BECAUSE OR TOURIST HOME OR, OR, OR TOURIST HOME.
BREAKFAST OR AIRBNB, ALTHOUGH THERE ARE OTHER HOUSES.
WELL, WE, WELL, WE DECIDED THE AIRBNB WAS AIST.
SO IF THIS IS THE PROVISION OF THE LAW THAT APPLIES TO WHAT YOU'RE DOING, I DON'T KNOW THAT YOU MEET THE CRITERIA FOR A SPECIAL USE PERMIT.
IS THAT A QUESTION? THAT'S NOT A QUESTION.
[00:30:01]
AND IT'S, I MEAN, YOU, YOU'D HAVE TO MEET THE CRITERIA OF SPECIAL USE PERMIT TO GET A SPECIAL USE PERMIT.THAT'S THE HARD PART, IS THAT THE CODE REALLY, WHEN WE ENVISIONED, WHEN WE DID THIS AND PUT AIRBNBS UNDER THERE, AND WE REALIZED IT'S NOT HOW DIFFERENT PEOPLE RUN AIRBNBS, BUT THE IDEA WAS LIKE A TOURIST HOME OR WHATEVER, IS THAT THE RESIDENT OF A HOME IS OCCUPIED IN THE BUILDING WHILE HE'S COME, THEREFORE HAS RESPONSIBILITY OF THE PEOPLE THAT ARE, THAT ARE THERE.
AND I CAN DO THAT IN THE FUTURE.
I CAN LESSEN THE AMOUNT OF PEOPLE THAT I RENT TO.
UH, BUT THERE ARE OTHER HOMES IN HAMBURG THAT RENT THE WHOLE HOUSE.
THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT THEY'RE FOLLOWING THE LAW.
BUT I, YOU KNOW, LIKE THIS GENTLEMAN WAS SAYING, YOU KNOW, MAYBE I SHOULD HAVE STUDIED UP A LITTLE BIT MORE, BUT I KNOW AIRBNB IS REALLY A PHENOMENON FOR, FROM THE LAST FIVE OR EIGHT OR 10 YEARS.
AND I'LL, I'LL, I'LL NOT, I'M NOT TAKING SIDES HERE, BUT I WILL DEFEND WHAT WE GRADED THIS LAW.
JUST LIKE A LOT OF OTHER ATED LAW, AIRBNB WILL TELL PEOPLE DOING IT THAT YOU DON'T NEED LOCAL APPROVALS TO DO THIS.
UH, AIRBNB IS WRONG AND HAS BEEN TAKEN TO COURT ON THAT.
EACH COMMUNITY, ESPECIALLY IN NEW YORK STATE, HAS HOME RULE CAPABILITIES.
WHEN WE PASSED THE LAW, PUT AIRBNBS UNDER TOURIST HOME.
HOW MANY YEARS AGO THE QUESTION WAS RAISED, WELL, HOW ARE YOU GONNA ENFORCE THIS? HOW ARE YOU GONNA ENFORCE? THIS IS OBVIOUSLY PEOPLE WHO MAKE COMPLAINTS ABOUT IT.
IF YOU'RE DOING SOMETHING THAT, AND WE HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE IN TOWN THAT DO STUFF THAT PROBABLY NOT ACCORDANCE WITH THE LAW.
WHERE IT CROSSES THE BOUNDS IS WHEN SOMEONE COMPLAINS ABOUT IT BECAUSE IT'S OBVIOUS TO SOMEONE THEY'RE DOING IT, THAT'S WHEN THE TOWN WILL TAKE ACTION.
WE'VE GONE ONLINE, THE CODE ENFORCEMENT GONE ONLINE AND SAID, YOU CAN SEARCH THE TOWN OF HAMBURG UNDER AIRBNB AND FIND OUT.
AND WE LOOK AND SAY, HOW MANY OF THESE PEOPLE ACTUALLY HAVE PERMITS TO OPERATE? UH, THE TOWN DOESN'T GO OUT.
THE TOWN SAYS IF SOMEONE COMPLAINS, THEY WILL GO OUT.
BECAUSE IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO TAKE SOMEONE TO COURT IF THERE'S NO COMPLAINTS AND NO PROOF OF RECORD.
SO, UH, WE HAVE THOUGHT ABOUT THAT, THAT IT'S AN ISSUE OF YOUR RIGHT.
THERE ARE PEOPLE THROUGHOUT THE TOWN THAT ARE RUNNING THEIR HOMES UNDER AIRBNB AND OTHER SERVICES.
IF WE GET A COMPLAINT, THE TOWN WILL ACT UPON IT.
USUALLY THE TOWN ACTS UPON IT AND CLOSES THEM DOWN IF THEY'RE NOT IN THE APPROPRIATE DISTRICTS.
UH, ROGER WAS ONE THAT BROUGHT THE ATTENTION OF ME WHEN THIS APPLICATION CAME IN, THAT THE STATE SUPREME COURT HAS DECIDED THAT, THAT THESE ARE ALLOWED IN R ONE ZONE.
THE FUNNY THING IS, THE TOWN, AND I CAN PROVE THE RECORD, THE TOWN OVER THE LAST FIVE YEARS HAS CONSIDERED AMENDING THE LAW TO ALLOW, ALLOW AIRBNB AND TOURIST HOMES IN R ONE DISTRICTS, BUT ONLY IF THEY WERE ON TWO ACRE LOTS AND HAD A SEPARATION DISTANCE AND ALL THESE OTHER THINGS.
OBVIOUSLY THAT'S A MOOT POINT.
STATE SUPREME COURT HAS SAID UNDER OUR CURRENT ZONING, IT'S ALLOWED BY SPECIAL USE PERMIT.
I THINK YOU HIT ON THE ONE MAJOR CRITERIA THAT WE'VE ALWAYS DISCUSSED IS UNFORTUNATELY, GOOD OR BAD OR DIFFERENT, THE CONCEPT OF AN AIRBNB AND A DIFFERENT IS THAT THE PERSON LIVES THERE THAT WAY.
IT'S NOT LIKE UNCONTROLLED PEOPLE IN A HOME WHO DO THINGS AND WHATEVER.
I KNOW YOU TRIED TO SCREEN YOURS, BUT THAT'S WHAT THE CITY OF BUFFALO HAD PROBLEMS. THEY HAD, YOU KNOW, ILLICIT PARTIES AND OTHER THINGS OCCURRING IN THERE.
IF YOU LIVED THERE, THAT WOULD NOT HAPPEN.
YOU KNOW, TYPICALLY THAT WOULD NOT HAPPEN.
UM, YOU'RE ALSO ONLY SUPPOSED TO SERVE ONE MEAL THERE, KIND OF LIKE A BREAKFAST OR WHATEVER.
IT'S NOT SUPPOSED TO BE A PLACE FOR PEOPLE TO SPEND.
THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO LIKE A TREND THAT THEY COME IN, USE THE PLACE TO SLEEP, GO VISIT PLACES AND DO THINGS.
I REALIZE IT'S DIFFICULT AND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT POSSIBLY AMENDING THIS LAW NOW, AND IT'S SOMETHING WE GOTTA LOOK AT, BUT RIGHT NOW WE HAVE TO LIVE UNDER THE LAWS OF THE TOWN.
SO YOU HAVE QUITE A LONG LIST OF CRITERIA FOR ISSUING THIS SPECIAL USE PERMIT.
YOU'RE ASKING THE RIGHT QUESTIONS.
THERE'S SEVERAL OTHERS ABOUT, ABOUT HOW IT COULD MEET THE, IF IT COULD MEET THE CRITERIA OF, OF A SPECIAL USE PERMIT FOR THIS.
OBVIOUSLY YOU LIVE IN A VERY TIGHT NEIGHBORHOOD WITH NEIGHBORS VERY CLOSE, SO DIFFICULT.
SO, UM, BUT ANYWAY, I HAVE MY BOARD ASK MORE QUESTIONS.
MR, MR. MR. BRA SAY YOUR LAST NAME.
HOW DO YOU SAY YOUR LAST NAME? I AGREE WITH WHAT HE'S SAYING.
NO, I DIDN'T SAY YOUR LAST NAME.
I WAS OVER THERE AND I SAW THE SITE MYSELF FROM, AND I LOOKED IN, HEARD THE TRAMPOLINE, AND THERE'S LOUNGE CHAIRS AND SOMEBODY, FRANK, HOW LONG DO YOU RENT TO THOSE PEOPLE? THEY'RE GONNA BE THERE SEVEN DAYS TOTAL.
AND YOU KNOW, THAT'S IN THE CODE THAT FOR DISTRICT, BECAUSE YEAH.
'CAUSE WE HAVE ANO ONE MORE GROUP FOR THE SUMMER COMING IN ON SATURDAY.
AND THIS IS A FAMILY OF, UH, HUSBAND AND WIFE, AND I THINK FOUR KIDS, UH, THAT ARE THERE NOW.
HAVE, HAVE YOU HAD ANYBODY THERE LONGER THAN SEVEN DAYS? PARDON? HAVE YOU EVER READ TO SOMEBODY LONGER THAN SEVEN DAYS? UH, ACTUALLY, UH, THERE WAS A GROUP, UH, LAST YEAR THAT THEIR, THE
[00:35:01]
ROOF BLEW OFF, BLEW OFF THEIR HOUSE.THEY LIVED IN HAMBURG AND THEY WERE STAYING IN A HOTEL AND THEY TOLD THE INSURANCE COMPANY, UH, HEY, YOU KNOW, WE CAN'T LIVE HERE ANYMORE.
AND SO I RENTED IT TO THEM THROUGH THE INSURANCE COMPANY, UH, FOR LIKE THREE MONTHS.
AND YEAH, BECAUSE I, THAT'S WHY I WAS ASKING QUESTIONS PRIOR TO OUR MEETING WITH DREW, BUT I'VE STATED ABOUT IT, BREAKFAST OR WHAT THEY CONSIDER NOW AN AIRBNB, NOW YOU HAVE TO SERVE A MEAL.
YOU REALIZE IF YOU ESTABLISH THIS, A MEAL IS ONE OF THE REQUIREMENTS.
AT THE MOST, THEY CAN DO ONE ONE.
SO THEY CAN'T DO MORE THAN ONE.
WELL, I KNOW THERE'S MANY PEOPLE, UH, I DON'T WANNA CHANGE THE SUBJECT, BUT A LOT OF PEOPLE RENT THEIR HOME BY THE MONTH IN HAMBURG AND OTHER TOWNS.
BUT FOR, FOR THE AIRBNB PURPOSES, IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE ONE WEEK MAXIMUM.
WELL, DOESN'T HAVE TO BE THERE.
THERE, MY CO MR. CHAIRMAN IS CORRECT AND LEGAL'S CORRECT.
IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE, BUT A MINIMUM OF WHAT? BREAKFAST IT BE SERVED.
AND I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE RESIDENCY PART OF IT.
ITEM SHALL NOT EXCEED SEVEN DAYS, SHALL NOT THREE, SEVEN DAYS.
HOW MANY ROOMS DO YOU HAVE? HOW MANY ROOMS? GUEST ROOMS YOU HAVE? UH, THERE'S FOUR BEDROOMS. OKAY.
THE HOUSE IS ABOUT 2,800 SQUARE FEET.
HOW MUCH OFF STREET PARKING IT WAS, IT'S REAL TIGHT THERE.
YOU HAVE A, A MEDIAN IN THE MIDDLE.
WHERE, WHERE'S THE OFF STREET PARK? WHERE WOULD THAT, WHERE WOULD YOU HAVE OFF STREET PARKING? IT SAYS ALL OFF STREET PARKING SHOULD BE REGULATED IN ACCORDANCE TO ARTICLES.
YOU GOT A DRIVEWAY RIGHT THERE WERE DRIVEWAY, A LARGE DRIVEWAY.
BUT DO YOU HAVE ANY, IS THERE, DO YOU HAVE ACCESS TO THAT STREET? IS THAT, IS THAT, IS THAT OFF STREET PARKING ALL? I DIDN'T SEE ANY CARS PARKED.
UH, YOUR QUESTION IS THE PARKING WHERE? YES.
WHERE DO YOU HAVE OFF STREET PARKING? NO RESIDENCE.
USUALLY NINE OUT OF 10 PEOPLE PARK RIGHT.
SOMETIMES THEY PARK UP ON TOP.
I HAVE A LITTLE PARKING AREA THERE.
I WE HAVE A LOT OF PROBLEMS WITH PEOPLE USING THE BEACH, UH, NEAR THE END OF ROGERS ROAD AND THEY PARK IN OUR SPOT.
AND, YOU KNOW, BUT I'M NOT HERE TO COMPLAIN ABOUT THAT.
I'M JUST CURIOUS 'CAUSE I SAW THAT THERE WERE CARS THERE IN, IN THE DRIVEWAY OR ON THE PROPERTY.
I NOTICED THE STREET IS SO TIGHT.
I JUST DIDN'T KNOW IF THERE'S AVAILABLE OFF STREET PARKING OR BOTH SIDE IN FRONT OF MY HOUSE.
SOMETIMES I'LL PARK MY TRUCK AND MY TRAILER THERE WITH THE MACHINE AND I DO CONSTRUCTION.
WELL, I MEAN, SO WE'VE ADDRESSED CRITERIA OF THE SPECIAL USE PERMIT THAT WE HAVE SIGNIFICANT QUESTIONS ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT YOU'D MEET IT.
UM, YOU KNOW, BEFORE YOU GO TO THE NEXT STEP, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO DECIDE WHETHER YOU THINK YOU'RE GONNA BE ABLE TO OVERCOME THOSE HURDLES TO PRESENT AT A REGULAR MEETING.
WELL, AFTER TALKING TO YOU GUYS, CAN I SAY THAT? SURE.
AND MS. DARDIN, OR MS. DARDIN? UM, I WOULDN'T MIND IN THE FUTURE BEING THERE WITH THE RENTERS IN THE HOUSE, BECAUSE THEN NOTHING WEIRD OR CRAZY COULD EVER GO ON.
AND, YOU KNOW, WITH THE PANDEMIC GOING ON, THERE WAS A FEW GROUPS OF PEOPLE I DIDN'T MEET WITH.
AND IN THE PAST, I'VE ALWAYS MET WITH THE PEOPLE AND TOLD 'EM WHAT THE RULES ARE AND YOU KNOW, WE, I HAVE A NEW NEIGHBOR AND HE DOESN'T LIKE NOISE AND HE IS GOT A BABY.
AND SO THE ONE NOISY GROUP, I WENT THERE, TOLD HIM TO QUIET DOWN.
I CALLED HIM BACK AN HOUR LATER AT NINE O'CLOCK.
I SAID, I HAVE YOU TURNED THE MUSIC RIGHT OFF? AND THEY'RE LIKE, YES.
SO I TRY, I'M, AND, YOU KNOW, TRYING TO, UH, BE A GOOD NEIGHBOR.
SO I DON'T THINK I ANSWERED YOUR QUESTION, BUT NO, NO.
YOU, YOU DO, YOU SAID YOU, YOU'D MAKE SOME CHANGES THAT YOU THINK WOULD MEET THE CRITERIA OF THE SPECIAL USE PERMIT, SO THAT, THAT, YEAH, SO BECAUSE LIKE I SAID, WE ONLY HAVE ABOUT ONE MORE FULL WEEK NEXT WEEK, UH, TO RENT TO A FAMILY.
THEN AFTER THAT, THERE ARE A COUPLE WEEKENDS THAT WE HAVE RENTED.
BUT IT'S GONNA BE COLDER, YOU KNOW, IT SHOULDN'T BE A PROBLEM.
JUST, AND I JUST SAID, BECAUSE PEOPLE LOVE THE BACK TECH AND THE VIEW OF THE LAKE, YOU KNOW, NOW THAT YOU HAVE THE SCHEDULE, PLEASE DON'T BRING ANYBODY ELSE IN UNTIL YOU, UNTIL WE APPROVE YOUR SPECIAL USE PERMIT.
YOU, YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT I'M SAYING? YOU, YOU HAVE A CALENDAR NOW.
YOU HAVE A CALENDAR NOW WHERE YOU, YOU'VE GOT IT BOOKED.
DON'T BOOK ANYMORE UNTIL YOU COME BACK TO US, BECAUSE THEN YOU'RE DEFINITELY GONNA BE IN VIOLATION.
AND YEAH, LIKE I SAID, I, I CAN ALWAYS IN THE FUTURE, UH, YOU KNOW, STAY AT THE HOME AND JUST MAYBE RENT TO A COUPLE LESS PEOPLE.
[00:40:01]
THAT WAY, BECAUSE SOMETIMES PEOPLE DO WANNA GET ON THE BACK DECK AND HAVE A PARTY AND JUST THEIR VOICES CAN BE LOUD.YOU KNOW, I HAVE A LOUD OF VOICE TOO,
UM, BUT YOU KNOW, I TELL THEM DON'T PLAY LOUD MUSIC, ESPECIALLY AFTER DARK.
SO, BUT NOT EVERYBODY KEEPS THE RULES, YOU KNOW? SO I THINK REGARDLESS OF THAT, YOU, IN ORDER TO CONTINUE DOING WHAT YOU'RE DOING, YOU NEED A, IF THE DECISION, WE ALL AGREE THAT YOU NEED A SPECIAL USE PERMIT.
SO I THINK TECHNICALLY UNDER THE LETTER OF THE LAW, YOU SHOULDN'T BE RENTING UNTIL YOU HAVE A SPECIAL USE PERMIT.
SO WHAT DENNIS IS SAYING IS DON'T BOOK ANYTHING ELSE UNTIL YOU'VE GONE THROUGH THE, THE APPLICATION PROCESS AND PROVIDED THE DOCUMENTATION THAT YOU MEET THE CRITERIA.
AND SARAH CAN WORK WITH YOU TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU HAVE ALL THOSE CRITERIA AND YOU, AND YOU FILL THAT IN.
SO, UM, IS IT AGAINST THE RULE, UH, THE LAW IN HAMBURG TO RENT THE WHOLE HOUSE? I THINK IT'S AGAINST THE LAW FOR THE PLANNING BOARD TO GIVE YOU LEGAL ADVICE.
WE SHOULDN'T ANSWER THAT QUESTION.
WE CAN'T ANSWER THAT QUESTION.
BUT IT'S, BUT IT, WE, WE'D BE VOLUNTARILY PUTTING OURSELVES ON THE SPOT IF WE TRY TO, BUT ALL I CAN SAY IS GOING FORWARD, YOU KNOW, I'LL DO WHATEVER THE PLANNING BOARD SUGGESTS TO THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT AND I'LL YEAH.
ENDEAVOR TO KEEP THE GROUPS QUIET AND READ THE RIOT ACT TO THEM AND JUST SAY, YOU KNOW, SO YOU, BUT IN ADDITION TO THAT, YOU ALSO NEED A SPECIAL USE PERMIT.
SO IN ORDER TO O OPERATE THE AIRBNB, YOU NEED A SPECIAL USE PERMIT THAT YOU NEED TO APPLY FOR.
AND IT GOES THROUGH THE PLANNING.
YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO COME BACK IN FRONT OF US RIGHT.
BUT IF I WAS STAYING THERE, I WOULDN'T NO, NO.
EVEN IF YOU'RE, EVEN IF YOU'RE STAYING THERE, YOU'D NEED A SPECIAL USE PERMIT.
YOU NEED A SPECIAL USE PERMIT.
SO BED AND BREAKFAST WOULD NEED A SPECIAL USE PERMIT.
YOU STAYING THERE MAKES THIS LOOK MORE LIKE A BED AND BREAKFAST OR A TOURIST HOME UNDER OUR LAW THEN, THEN IT LOOKS NOW, BUT IT STILL NEEDS A SPECIAL USE PERMIT.
SO I'LL JUST KEEP GOING THROUGH THE PROCESS WITH THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT AND THEN LIKE TO SCHEDULE A PUBLIC HEARING.
DOES, HE HAS SUBMITTED AN APPLICATION, A ONE SHEET APPLICATION? I THINK WE NEED TO SEE WHAT HIS PLAN IS FOR HIM LIVING THERE AND HOW HE DESIGNATES WHAT THE GUEST ROOMS ARE BEFORE WE CAN SCHEDULE A PUBLIC HEARING.
SO WE NEED, WE NEED TO SEE THE CHANGE BECAUSE WHAT, WHAT WE, WHAT WE HAVE NOW, I DON'T THINK MEETS THE CRITERIA OF A SPECIAL USE PERMIT.
SO I WOULDN'T WANT TO SCHEDULE A PUBLIC HEARING BASED ON WHAT WE HAVE NOW.
DO YOU REMEMBER TURN THE REPORT ON NOW MEGAN REMINDED ME.
SO WHAT WE'RE TELLING THIS GENTLEMAN IS THAT IN TWO WEEKS, COME BACK TO US WITH, LOOK THROUGH THIS CRITERIA, STATE HOW YOU'RE GONNA MEET THE CRITERIA IN THIS LAW.
OKAY? AND THEN IF THE PLANNING BOARD THINKS THAT THAT'S A COMPLETE APPLICATION, THEY WILL CALL A PUBLIC HEARING TWO WEEKS LATER.
AND IF THINGS WORK PERFECTLY, YOU COULD GET A PERMIT THAT YOU COULD GET APPROVAL AT NIGHT.
OR IF THEY DON'T WORK PERFECTLY, THEY WOULD TURN DOWN YOUR SPECIAL USE PERMIT REQUEST AND YOU PROBABLY WOULD FINISH OUT THE YEAR AND THEN BE TOLD YOU CAN'T DO THIS ANYMORE.
SO I WOULD THINK LONG AND HARD ABOUT HOW TO ADDRESS THESE ISSUES.
YOU, YOU HAVE THESE, RIGHT? THESE ARE THE CRITERIA IN THE LAW.
UH, THOSE ARE THE CRITERIA IN THE LAW.
SO I WOULD DO THAT VERY PROFESSIONALLY.
GO THROUGH AND SAY, HOW ARE YOU GONNA MEET THOSE CRITERIA? OKAY.
WE'RE GONNA CALL PUBLIC HEARING ONCE WE HAVE ALL THIS INFORMATION.
SO THAT INFORMATION NEEDS TO BE PROVIDED BY NEXT WEEK, FRIDAY, SO THAT WE HAVE TIME TO REVIEW IT AHEAD OF THE MEETING.
SO YOU HAVE NEXT WEEK, FRIDAY IS THE DEADLINE TO SUBMIT MANAGER OF THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT? YEAH.
I KNOW PAUL RICE HAD SENT ME THE PAPERWORK, SO I GUESS I'LL TALK TO HIM.
CAN YOU FILLED OUT THE ONE PAGE APPLICATION? YEAH.
BUT WHAT WE'RE SAYING TO YOU IS THAT THEY WANT TO KNOW HOW YOU'RE GONNA MEET THOSE CRITERIA.
IF YOU CAN WRITE DOWN HOW YOU'RE GONNA MEET THOSE CRITERIA, THEN THEY CAN CALL A PUBLIC HEARING SO THEY CAN PRESENT TO THE PUBLIC THIS IS HOW THIS GENTLEMAN IS GONNA, OTHERWISE WHY CALL A PUBLIC HEARING IF YOU CAN'T MEET THE CRITERIA? YEAH.
I DON'T HAVE TO PAY ON THE FEET ON, RIGHT? NO, YOU'RE, YOU'RE, THAT, THAT TAKES YOU THROUGH THE WHOLE PROCESS.
IT TAKES YOU THROUGH THE WHOLE PROCESS.
SO NEXT ITEM ON THE AGENDA IS HAMBURG BREWERY BREWERY REQUESTING PLANNING BOARD CONSIDERATION OF A SITE PLAN WAIVER FOR NEW BATHROOM FACILITIES.
IT'S 6 5 5 3 BOSTON STATE ROAD.
ARE THEY HERE? ARE THEY HERE? I'M GOOD.
YOU GUYS RECEIVED A COPY OF THIS, BUT I HAVE HARD COPIES FOR YOU IF YOU WANNA LOOK AT IT.
AND AGAIN, YOU'RE BEING REQUESTED HERE, THEY HAVE NOT MADE SITE PLAN APPLICATION.
THERE'S NO OFFICIAL SITE PLAN THAT WE ARE CONSIDERING IT TO FOR A
[00:45:01]
SITE PLAN WAIVER.THE SITE PLAN WAIVER COMMITTEE WOULD LIKE YOUR INPUT BEFORE THEY ISSUE A SITE PLAN WAIVER.
AND BY THE WAY, IN YOUR PACKET, I STARTED TO PUT A POLICY TOGETHER FOR SITE PLAN WAIVERS AND WHATEVER YOU GUYS CAN REVIEW IT, CAN'T GIVE INPUT ON THAT BEFORE WE HAVE IT FORMALIZED.
SO THIS IS, IT MEETS THE, THE MINIMUM CRITERIA FOR SITE PLAN WAIVER.
IT'S UNDER A CERTAIN SIZE AND WHATEVER, SORRY, THIS IS, UH, YEP.
UM, SO WE'RE CONSIDERING A SITE PLAN WAIVER.
WE'LL LET THE APPLICANT TALK ABOUT WHAT THEY WANT TO DO THERE.
AND YOUR RECOMMENDATION WOULD BE EITHER DO A SITE PLAN WAIVER OR ASK FOR MORE INFORMATION FOR SITE PLAN APPROVAL.
SO GOOD DAY EVENING EVERYBODY.
FROM HAMBURG BREWING COMPANY HERE WITH MY FATHER, JOHN RUSSO SENIOR.
UM, WE ARE LOOKING TO PUT UP, UH, TWO SEPARATE BATHROOM FACILITIES, UM, TO ENHANCE THE EXPERIENCE AT BREWERY.
UM, ONE OF THEM IS ATTACHED TO THE BUILDING AND THE TAP ROOM AS EVERYBODY KNOWS IT NOW.
UH, AND THE OTHER IS A FREESTANDING STRUCTURE THAT WILL BE USED FOR OUTDOOR FACILITIES FOR, UM, JUST ANYBODY IN OUR TENTS.
AND, UH, JUST EXTRA SPACE AND EXTRA COMFORT FOR EVERYBODY IN FACILITY.
WE, UH, OVERSIZED EVERYTHING IN OUR DESIGN AND, UH, JUST LOOKING TO MAKE EVERYBODY A LITTLE BIT MORE COMFORTABLE.
AND IF YOU NEED, WE DO HAVE INTERIOR DRAWINGS, IF ANYBODY NEED TO SEE WHAT THE, AND THEY'RE GONNA MATCH THE EXISTING BUILDING, CORRECT? IS THAT TENT, UH, PERMANENT STRUCTURE? NO, IT'S NOT.
SO THE HEIGHT GOES UP SEASONALLY? CORRECT.
ARE THERE ANY SIDEWALKS OR PATHS PROPOSED TO THE NON-ATTACHED BATHROOM? IT WOULD BE, UH, THERE'D BE A WALK POUR BETWEEN THE, UH, TENT AND THE
AND THAT WOULD BE GRAVEL, CONCRETE? CONCRETE.
WELL, I MEAN, OUR DECISION IS WHETHER WE WANNA DO A SITE PLAN WAIVER OR IF WE WANT THEM TO GO THROUGH THE FULL SITE PLAN PROCESS WITH THE ADDITION DREW WITH THE ADDITION OF A SIDEWALK OR A PATH FROM THE NON-ATTACHED BATHROOM TO THE TENT OR A WALKWAY THAT STILL MEETS THE SITE PLAN WAIVER CRITERIA.
YOU CAN MAKE THAT RECOMMENDATION TO THE, THE COMMITTEE THAT THEY INCLUDE, THAT, THAT, THAT MAKE SURE THAT'S HAPPENED.
YOU CAN ALSO INCLUDE RECOMMENDATIONS TO THE SITE PLAN WAIVER COMMITTEE.
BECAUSE WE'VE HAD OTHERS IN THE PAST WHERE WE DID DO SITE PLAN WAIVERS WITH CONDITIONS.
HEY, YOU NEED TO DO THIS, YOU NEED TO DO THAT.
I MEAN, THAT WOULD BE MY ONLY THING IS THAT THEY PROVIDE THE WAIVER COMMITTEE WITH, IF THEY'RE INCLUDING A PATH OR, OR OTHER ASSOCIATED INFRASTRUCTURE THAT'D BE SHOWN ON THE DRAWING.
I'M ASSUMING THAT'S NOT BIG DEAL.
YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT A CAP LIKE OVER OH YEAH, I GUESS IT IS THERE, BUT YEAH, THAT, SO THERE'S A CONCRETE PAD RIGHT NEXT TO IT.
SO IT'S CONNECTING THIS IT WOULD BE CONNECTED THERE, YES.
OH, I THOUGHT THE DOOR WOULD BE ON THE OTHER SIDE AND THE WAY IT WAS SHAPED, I THINK THIS, THIS IS THE DOOR, THIS LITTLE, RIGHT? SO IF HE'S CONNECTING IT TO THIS NO, NO, NO.
BE LIKE A LITTLE 90 DEGREE TURN.
SO ARE WE OKAY WITH A WAIVER? YES.
UM, SO AS LONG AS THEY SHOW THE PATH ON THAT, RIGHT, WE CAN GET THAT DONE.
SO I'LL MAKE A MOTION FOR SITE PLAN WAIVER FOR HAMMER BREWERY.
AS LONG AS THE PATH IS SHOWN ON THE FINAL DRAWING SUBMITTED TO THE SITE PLAN WAIVER.
COMMITTEE MOTION BY MR. CLARK.
RIGHT AT THE RIGHT
TAKE A LOOK AT MY, I'LL SEND IT TO YOU ELECTRONICALLY.
PLEASE ADD YOUR COMMENTS TO IT BEFORE I PRESENT IT TO THE SITE PLAN WAIVER COMMITTEE.
SO I HAVE IN YOUR PACKET AN IDEA OF WHAT THE POLISHES SHOULD BE AND HOW WE SHOULD PRACTICE WITH STUFF THAT MAY OR MAY NOT MEET A SITE PLAN WAIVER REQUIREMENT.
YOU KNOW, WE CAN SET UP A POLICY OF WHEN IT GETS SENT HERE FOR YOUR INPUT, ET CETERA.
SO I ALSO HAVE IN YOUR PACKET, I PUT TOGETHER SOME THINGS THAT I PRODUCED OVER THE LAST SIX, SEVEN YEARS ABOUT PROCESSES AND WHATEVER WITHIN, WITHIN THE, WITHIN THE TOWN.
I MEAN IT'S, YEAH, IT'S JUST SOMETHING TO START WITH.
THE DIFFERENT THINGS WE'VE PUT TOGETHER OVER THE YEARS ABOUT PROCESSES AND PROCEDURES.
THE LAST ONE IS, UH, IS THE ONE THE TOWN REALLY APPRECIATES WHEN WE DO THAT
[00:50:01]
FOR ALL ZONING REVISIONS.WE PUT TOGETHER CHECKLIST AND WHO'S RESPONSIBLE TOWN CLERK, UH, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER.
SO WE HAVE A GOOD, THEY ACTUALLY USE THAT AND PUT INITIALS NEXT TO IT AND SAY THESE THINGS ARE ALL TAKEN CARE OF BECAUSE WE HAD ONE HAPPEN LAST YEAR WHERE A LOCAL LAW WAS PASSED AND THEY FORGOT TO FILE IT, THE STATE WITHIN THE 30 DAY CRITERIA.
AND THEREFORE THEY HAD TO GO BACK AND REDO THE RESOLUTIONS TO APPROVE BECAUSE THEY MISSED THAT STEP.
SO WE DON'T UNDERSTAND PROCESS OF FOR BILL BACK TO YOU.
WE'RE ALREADY FOR THE, ALRIGHT.
UH, WELCOME TO 18TH MEETING IN THE TOWN OF HAMBURG PLANNING BOARD.
EVERYONE PLEASE RISE THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS.
ONE NATION UNDER GOD, INDIVIDUAL WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL.
ALRIGHT, SO WE'VE GOT TWO ITEMS ON THE AGENDA.
UM, NUMBER ONE IS DAVID MANKO REQUESTING PRELIMINARY PLAT APPROVAL OF A 67 MO SUBDIVISION TO BE LOCATED ON THE WEST SIDE OF PARKER ROAD.
I UNDERSTAND THERE'S A SUBMISSION IN THIS PROJECT.
GOOD EVENING, CHAIRMAN CLARK AND MEMBERS OF THE PLANNING BOARD.
SEAN HOPKINS OF THE LAW FIRM OF HOPKINS, GEORGIA MCCARTHY ON BEHALF OF THE PROJECT SPONSOR.
ALSO WITH ME IS JODY CELESTE FOR DIMENSIONS AS WELL AS CHRIS WOOD.
I DO HAVE A SUBMISSION THAT OBVIOUSLY NO ONE HAS LOOKED AT, BUT I WILL JUST TALK BRIEFLY ABOUT WHAT IT IS.
CHRIS OR SEAN, HOW COME, UM, FRIDAY I'LL EXPLAIN WHY, BUT ALSO EXPLAIN WHAT WE DIDN'T.
WE'RE OBVIOUSLY NOT GONNA BE EXPECTED TO.
I'M NOT EVEN ASKING YOU TO TAKE A LOOK AT PROCEED.
SO, BUT I'LL SUMMARIZE AS, AS YOU'LL RECALL, THE SUBCOMMITTEE, THE PLAYING BOARD THAT WAS TASKED WITH COMPLETING A PRELIMINARY ENVIRONMENTAL REVIEW OF THE PROPOSED SUBDIVISION PROVIDED US WITH DRAFTS OF BOTH PART TWO OF THE FO A F AND WHAT WAS CALLED THE TABLE OF PART THREE CONSIDERATIONS.
SO THE SUBMISSION THAT I'VE JUST GIVEN TO YOU AT THIS MOMENT, RESPONSE TO THOSE COMMENTS WITH THE FOCUS BEING ON THOSE POTENTIAL CATEGORIES THAT WERE MARKED AS POTENTIALLY BEING SIGNIFICANT, I TRIED TO GENERALLY FOLLOW THE FORMAT OF WHAT WAS PROVIDED TO ME.
I HOPE YOU, I HOPE YOU FIND IT TO BE COMPREHENSIVE AND WHERE APPROPRIATE, I'VE REFERENCED THE EXHIBITS.
I WOULD NOTE THAT GIVEN THAT YOU JUST GOT THAT AND IT'S GONNA TAKE SOME TIME, WHAT I WOULD BE PROPOSING IS THAT YOU NOT PUT THIS ON YOUR NEXT AGENDA, BUT PUT IT ON FOR A MONTH FROM NOW.
THAT'LL PROVIDE EVERYONE WITH THE OPPORTUNITY TO REVIEW THIS AS WELL AS THE OTHER ONE.
AND THEN IF THERE'S QUESTIONS YOU HAVE, THEY COULD BE EMAILED TO ME OR HOWEVER YOU WANNA DO IT.
AND WE WOULD TRY AND ANTICIPATE ADV ADVANCE ANSWERING THOSE IN ADVANCE OF THAT MEETING.
WITH THAT BEING SAID, JODY CELESTE FROM EARTH DIMENSIONS IS HERE THIS EVENING.
SHE PREPARED THE ARIAN BUFFER PLAN AS WE RECALL, WE SUBMITTED AN ORIGINAL PLAN THAT WAS UPDATED BASED ON SOME FEEDBACK WE HAD.
SO I WANTED JODY TO GIVE AN OVERVIEW OF THAT AND MAKE SURE SHE'S AVAILABLE FOR ANY QUESTIONS YOU MAY HAVE.
SO WITH THAT BEING SAID, JODY, SO HAS THERE BEEN ANY, HAVE THERE BEEN ANY CHANGES TO THIS SINCE IT WAS LAST PRESENTED TO US? SO WE HAVE THIS PLAN ALREADY.
YOU HAVE THIS, BUT IT WASN'T, IT'S NEVER WAS, WASN'T FORMALLY PRESENTED TO YOU SINCE IT'S BEEN UPDATED? WELL, SO THE PLAN THAT WE RECEIVED HARD COPIES OF HAS BEEN UPDATED.
AND THIS IS DIFFERENT FROM THAT.
NO, I BELIEVE THIS IS, YOU'VE RECEIVED TWO PLANS.
DO YOU REMEMBER THE ORIGINAL PLAN? CAITLIN ONLY HAD TREES AND YOU ASKED FOR US TO COR WELL THAT'S WHAT I'M ASKING IS DID WE GET THIS UPDATED PLAN? THIS HAS THE SAME PLANTINGS ON IT, BUT THE PLAN YOU HAD HAS AUGUST 2ND, RIGHT? I JUST CLEANED THIS IS THE SAME AS THE ONE YOU COMMENTED ON.
NO, THIS IS AN AUGUST 2ND PLAN.
DO WE HAVE THE AUGUST 2ND PLAN? LEMME SEE.
I DON'T KNOW IF WE'VE RECEIVED THE AUGUST 2ND.
OH, I, I SUBMITTED IT BEFORE YOUR LAST MEETING.
MEANING PRIOR TO YOUR LAST MEETING.
YEAH, IT WOULD'VE LITERALLY, BUT I THINK ON AUGUST 2ND.
I DON'T REMEMBER WHAT DAY OF THE WEEK THAT WAS, BUT THE SAME DAY I GOT IT FROM JODY OR THE NEXT DAY IT WAS, IT PROBABLY LOOKS DIFFERENT 'CAUSE IT THE GREEN IS GONE.
ALL THE PLAN THAT CHRIS HAS ON THE BOARD,
[00:55:01]
HE JUST CLEANED UP.THERE WAS A LOT OF ADDITIONAL EXTRANEOUS BACKGROUND INFORMATION SO IT'LL BE CLEAR WHERE THAT TRIBUTARY OF RUSH CREEK, RUSH CREEK IS AND THE PLANTINGS THAT WE'RE PROPOSING.
WHEN DID WE GET THE EMAIL FROM SARAH? IT'S ON THE WEBSITE.
DO YOU WANT THIS RIGHT? I WEBSITE NOTES.
I'M JUST, SO WOULD YOU GUYS LIKE JODY TO GIVE AN OVERVIEW WHAT THE PLAN IS AND ANSWER ANY QUESTION? IT WAS SUBMITTED TO THE TOWN HERE, RIGHT? THAT DOESN'T, OKAY, SO MAYBE WE WANNA MOVE THAT LITTLE CLOSER, JORDAN.
THEY MUST HAVE BROUGHT IT AGAIN WHEREVER.
SO THERE'S 81 TREE PLANTINGS THAT WILL BE PLACED IN THE GAPS ALONG THE EDGES OF THE CREEK.
A ADJACENT TO THE DEVELOPMENT ANYWHERE THERE'S DISTURBANCE.
AND THEN AS WELL THERE'S, OH NO, I JUST WANNA REFERENCE FOR THE MINUTES THAT THIS PERTAINS TO BOTH PROJECTS.
THE MANCO PROJECT, WHICH YOU'RE REVIEWING NOW, AS WELL AS THE WETZEL PROJECT.
OH, SORRY, I DIDN'T, THAT WAS MY FAULT.
THERE'S ALSO, UH, 66 SHRUG PLANTINGS TO BE PLANTED IN ADDITION TO THE TREES SLIGHTLY FURTHER OUT TO FURTHER PROTECT THE STREAM.
AND THEN THERE'S UM, A SEED MIX THAT WAS ADDED FOR 25 FEET ON EITHER SIDE OF THE STREAM TO ENHANCE THE, THE STREAM CHANNEL AND THE BUFFER.
IS THAT A SEED MIX YOU SAID? YEAH, IT'S A SEED MIX.
IT'S A COVER CROP AND NATIVE SEEDS.
THEY'D SPRAY IT JUST LIKE TO DO A HYDRO SEEDED.
IF THAT WOULD BE THE SEED MIX THAT WOULD BE IN THE, IN THE HYDRO SEEDED.
SO, AND, AND HOW EXACTLY DOES THIS PROTECT THE WATERWAY? WELL IT ENHANCES IT BY PREVENTING EROSION AND STABILIZING THE STREAM CHANNEL AND SHADING AS WELL.
THE TREES AND SHRUB, STRAY SHADE THEM.
SO HOW WAS THE WIDTH OF THE RIPARIAN BUFFER SELECTED? WHAT IS THE, WHAT IS THE ADVISABLE WIDTH FOR OPTIMAL STREAM? PERFECT PROTECTION.
AND HOW DID YOU COME UP WITH 25 FEET HERE? UM, WELL I SPOKE WITH SCOTT AND TOM OR WHO WERE OUT AT THE SITE AND THEY DESCRIBED THE STREAM CHANNEL AND TOLD ME THAT A 25 FOOT BUFFER WOULD BE SUFFICIENT TO WHAT'S THERE.
OKAY, SO THAT WASN'T BASED ON ANY DATA OR SCIENCE OR THE PRACTICES IN THE INDUSTRY.
THE, THE, THE STREAM CHANNEL IN THE WETLAND DONATION REPORT THAT WAS PREPARED BY EARTH DIMENSIONS AS JODY INDICATED, HER CO-EMPLOYEES, UH, TOM SUMMERVILLE AND SCOTT LEVISON.
I THINK IT CALLS OUT, UH, THAT TRIBUTARY IS HAVING A WIDTH OF FOUR FEET.
JUST SO, YEAH, SO I, WELL I'VE JUST BEEN TRYING TO UNDERSTAND IF THERE'S AN INDUSTRY STANDARD OR SOME SORT OF DOCUMENTATION THAT TAKES THAT AND THAT'S USED TO CALCULATE THAT, THAT WE HAVE THE, THAT DOCUMENTED ON THE RECORD.
I MEAN, WHAT WE TYPICALLY USE IS A FOUR TO ONE RATIO FOR, UM, IMPACT TO THE CHANNEL PROTECTION.
WHICH WOULD BE WHAT WE'RE, WE'RE DOING MORE THAN THAT.
YEAH, IT'S 25 AND THAT WOULD BE ABOUT 16? YEAH, IT WOULD BE 16 ON EACH SIDE.
THE OTHER BENEFIT OF THAT, IT OBVIOUSLY DEMARCATES THAT AREA, KIND OF, YOU KNOW, KEEP THE CLEARING AWAY FROM THERE.
AND WHAT OF COURSE WE'D BE WILLING TO DO ON BOTH THESE PROJECTS IS PRIOR TO COMMENCEMENT OF CONSTRUCTION ACTIVITIES IS ACTUALLY INSTALL A CONSTRUCTION FENCE TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT AREA IS NOT IMPACTED.
WOULD THIS DO ANYTHING 25 FEET ON EITHER SIDE OR 25? YEAH, 25 FEET ON BOTH SIDES.
SO IT'S A PRETTY, IT'S A PRETTY GOOD BUFFER.
DOES IT DO ANYTHING TO FILTER LIKE IF UH, THERE'S LAWN CHEMICALS ON ANY OF THE HOUSES? ABSOLUTELY.
AND NOT MOWING IT IS ALSO, UH, PART OF THAT PROTECTION 'CAUSE OF THE, IT'LL GET TRAPPED IN THE VEGETATION BEFORE IT HITS THE STREAM WITHOUT MOWING IT.
DO YOU END UP HAVING IT ISSUES WITH TICKS OR BUGS OR, UM, I MEAN THAT TYPICALLY THAT COULD HAPPEN ANYWHERE.
I, I'VE SEEN TICKS ON MOWED LAWN.
SO, UM, ONE OF MY SON, MY SON PLAYS SOCCER AND I GOT A TICK SITTING AT HIS SOCCER GAME AND MOWED LAWN.
SO I MEAN I DON'T THINK THAT THERE'S, UM, ANYTHING THAT WOULD, UM, ATTRACT
[01:00:01]
TICKS BASED ON THIS PLAN.THE OTHER ASPECT, KEEP IN MIND ON BOTH THE WETZEL SITE AND THE MANCO SITE, WE'RE DISCUSSING THE MANCO SITE SPECIFICALLY.
CHRIS IS SHOWING ON THIS PLAN THE CLUSTERED LAYOUT AND BASED ON INPUT WE RECEIVED PRE PREVIOUSLY FROM THE PLANNER WE PLAYING BOARD, WE'RE OKAY WITH THAT 15.3 ACRES OF PERMANENT OPEN SPACE WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THOSE RECREATIONAL AMENITIES STAYING IN ITS NATURAL STATE AS WELL.
MEANING THAT WE WOULD AGREE THAT THAT DOES NOT BECOME MANICURED YARDS.
SO WHAT'S THE PROPOSAL FOR THE, THE EDGE AWAY FROM THE CLUSTER DEVELOPMENT THAT'S STILL ON THIS MANGO PROPERTY? THERE DOESN'T SEEM TO BE ANY PLANTING OR ANYTHING PROPOSED FOR THE OTHER SIDE OF THE WATER BODY UP THERE.
THERE'S NOT, THERE'S NO DISTURBANCE PROPOSED UP HERE.
I I GUESS WHAT I WHAT THERE'S NOTHING PROPOSED IN TERMS OF PLANTING OR RIPARIAN BUFFER OR ENHANCEMENT.
I MEAN, WHAT, WHAT'S THE POINT OF THAT, THAT AREA AND WHAT'S, HOW IS THAT GOING TO BE MAINTAINED AND KEPT AND IS THERE A REASON WE DIDN'T PUT A BUFFER ON THAT SIDE? WELL IT'S, IT'S ISOLATED BY THE STREAM CHANNEL AND I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW WHAT IS HERE.
THE, THE INDIVIDUAL THAT'S SELLING THE PROPERTY IS KEEPING, KEEPING THIS PART.
IS IT, IS IT THIS HOUSE AND THERE'S A BARN AND SOME OTHER YEAH, BUT THERE'S JUST A STRIP OF RIGHT, RIGHT HERE YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.
IS THERE A REASON WE'RE NOT DOING ANYTHING THERE TO, I GUESS BECAUSE THERE'S NO DEVELOPMENT ON THAT SIDE AND WE WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO GET THERE TO MAINTAIN IT WITHOUT GOING ACROSS THE CREEK.
'CAUSE WE DON'T OWN, YOU KNOW, ACCESS ON THAT SIDE.
YEAH, I DON'T KNOW IF WE COULD ACCESS IT.
I GUESS I'M WONDERING IF THERE'S ANY WAY 'CAUSE PUT TREES OR ANYTHING IN OVER THERE.
WE, WE COULD PROBABLY ADD A FEW ON THIS SIDE.
YEAH, I DON'T THINK WE'D HAVE A PROBLEM ADDING SOME TREES.
WHAT? WE DON'T WANNA CREATE SOMETHING, REMEMBER IT'S UP THERE.
WHAT'S, WHAT'S THAT PROPERTY ZONE ON THE OTHER SIDE? THAT'S COMMERCIAL ISN, THIS PROPERTY THE OTHER SIDE? YEAH.
YEAH, I THINK IT'S ZONED IT IS.
I THINK WE'D LIKE A, A BUFFER FOR YOUR OWN RESIDENCE.
STATES THAT, YOU KNOW, PUT SOME TREES ALONG THERE.
I THINK THERE'S A REQUIREMENT.
I MEAN USUALLY WE MAKE THE COMMERCIAL DEVELOPER DO THAT, BUT IF YOU COULD ADD SOME TREES, IT'D BE NICE BECAUSE WHEN THE COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT COMES IN, IF IT COMES IN, IF IT DOESN'T GET CHANGED, THEN THEY WOULD HAVE TO PROVIDE THEIR BUFFER, WHICH IS UH, UM, LANDSCAPE FIRM AND WHATEVER'S REQUIRED.
WE WOULD LEAVE IT NATURAL RIGHT AFTER WE PLANTED THEM AND GO YEAH, PUT SOME TREES AND, AND DO THAT.
I MEAN IT'S BEEN PLOWED OR WOULD BE PLOWED UNDER BEFORE THIS IS DEVELOPED SO THERE WOULDN'T BE ANYTHING ON IT.
SO IT WOULD NEED, OTHERWISE IT'S JUST GONNA, I GUESS, BUT THIS, THIS SIDE WOULDN'T BE PLOWED.
BUT I GUESS WHAT, HOW WOULD YOU BE STABILIZING THAT? IS THERE A VEGETATION PLAN FOR THAT TO STABILIZE IT? IS IT NOT BEING PLOWED NOW THIS YEAH, NO, NO, THAT'S NOT ON THE OTHER SIDE.
YEAH, THAT'S NOT THE INDIVIDUAL LIVES ON.
I MEAN IF, IF YOU'D LIKE TO SEE SOME TREES ON THAT SIDE, I DON'T THINK WE HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT.
AND OKAY, SO HOW, I'M JUST ASKING HOW WE WOULD PROTECT THIS IF THIS IS THE PLAN IS 50 FOOT CARTER OR RIPARIAN CORRIDOR THAT OBVIOUSLY WE SHOWN THEIR PLANS AS A, YOU KNOW, THIS IS WHAT YOU'RE DOING THERE.
THE TOWN WOULD PROBABLY ASK FOR, AND THAT'S UP TO YOU GUYS ASK FOR CONSERVATION EASEMENT.
SO THE TOWN COULD ENFORCE THE FACT THAT NOT A LATER CASE SOMEONE GOES IN AND SAYS, WELL WE DON'T LIKE THIS ANYMORE, WE'RE GONNA PUT SOMETHING IN THERE.
SO THE TOWN TYPICALLY WOULD HAVE A CON, THEY DON'T WANNA OWN IT DOWN.
WOULD'VE A CONSERVATION EASEMENT TO ENFORCE THAT.
WE HAD A PROBLEM ON OTHER PROJECTS WHERE WE HAD SOMETHING LIKE THIS SHOWN AND THEN RESIDENTS IN AREA WENT, WE, WE DON'T LIKE THIS, WE'RE JUST GONNA, YOU KNOW, WE PROBABLY WANT IT OPEN SPACE.
WHAT'S THAT? WE PROBABLY WANT SOMETHING LIKE THAT FROM US ALL.
YEAH, THAT'S WHAT I WAS GONNA SAY.
REMEMBER WE'VE HAD THIS DISCUSSION IN PARTICULAR ON THE WETZEL PROJECT, BUT ALSO IN ON THE MANCO PROJECT.
I ENVISION THAT UNDER THE CLUSTERED LAYOUT, YOU'RE GONNA WANT THAT CONSERVATION EASEMENT FOR ALL THE PERMANENT OPEN SPACE AND THEN THE WETZEL PLAN, YOU'RE GONNA WANT IT FOR THAT 20.1 ACRES OF PERMANENT OPEN SPACE.
THERE'LL BE A DECLARATION OF RESTRICTIONS, BUT THE TOWN WILL BE GRANTED A CONSERVATION EASEMENT.
SO IF IT CHOOSES TO ENFORCE THOSE OBLIGATIONS, THAT CAN, IT'S NOT OBLIGATED TO, BUT IT WOULD'VE THE OPTION TO.
SO FOR THE, THE TWO SEPARATE PROJECTS FOR THE PARKER ROAD SUBDIVISION THAT LANDS WOULD, ARE YOU ENVISIONING A HOMEOWNER'S ASSOCIATION? YES.
SO THAT WOULD BE OWNED BY AND WEZEL OBVIOUSLY IT'S GONNA BE OWNED BY THE PROPERTY.
KEEP IN MIND, UNDER EITHER ALTERNATIVE, WE BELIEVE THERE'S, FROM A SEEKER PERSPECTIVE AND NEIGHBOR PERSPECTIVE AND FROM ANY OTHER PERSPECTIVES, THE CLUSTERED LAYOUT MAKES MORE SENSE UNDER EITHER THE CLUSTERED LAYOUT OR THE AS OF RIGHT SUBDIVISION LAYOUT, WHICH RESULTS IN SEVEN ADDITIONAL LOTS.
WE WOULD'VE TO FORM A HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION, UH, FOR RESPONSIBILITY OF THE STORMWATER MANAGEMENT FACILITIES.
AND THAT'S A REQUIREMENT THAT GOES BACK WITH THE TOWN ABOUT SIX OR SEVEN YEARS BASED ON DECISIONS PREVIOUSLY MADE BY LARDO.
YOU KNOW, THEY DON'T WANT, UH, STORMWATER FACILITIES TO BE LOCATED ON INDIVIDUAL LOTS ANYMORE.
SO THE, WHEN YOU CROSS FROM THE MANCO PROPERTY PIECES IS CONTINUOUS AND COVERS BOTH PROPERTIES.
WHEN YOU CROSS OVER ONTO THE WETZEL PROPERTY, IT LOOKS LIKE THE BUFFER IS ONLY PLANTED ON ONE SIDE AND
[01:05:01]
THAT THERE IS NO 25 FOOT BUFFER BETWEEN THAT STREAM CHANNEL AND THE BUILDING.THAT BUILDING, I MEAN, I GUESS MY QUESTION IS, IS THERE A 25 FOOT COMMITMENT TO A BUFFER ON EITHER SIDE ONLY, ONLY ON THE MANCO PROPERTY OR ARE YOU MAKING THAT COMMITMENT ON ALL OF THE WETZEL PROPERTY? WELL, THE MAPLE PROPERTY FOR SURE ON THIS SIDE.
SOME OF THE BUILDINGS MAY BE A LITTLE BIT CLOSER THAN 25 FEET.
SO I GUESS I WOULD WANNA KNOW WHAT THE MINIMUM BUFFER WIDTH IS.
ON, ON EACH SIDE, UM, IN THOSE AREAS.
AND I THINK THERE NEEDS TO BE A PLANTING BETWEEN THAT, THAT BUILDING AND THE OTHER SIDE OF THE SCREEN CHANNEL RIGHT THERE.
AND KEEP IN MIND NEITHER OF THESE PLANS, I UNDERSTAND THE COMMENTS RECEIVING, THEY'RE NOT MEANT TO BE THE LANDSCAPING PLANS FOR THE PROJECT, BUT FAIR ENOUGH.
WE'LL ADD THAT NOW, YOU KNOW, THE WETZEL SITE IN PARTICULAR, IT'S A MULTI-FAMILY PROJECT.
THERE'LL BE PRETTY EXTENSIVE LANDSCAPING THAT WILL BE ULTIMATELY SHOWN WHEN WE GET TO THE ENGINEERING REVIEW STAGE.
YOU SAID WEZEL WON'T BE AN HOA IT WILL BE AN H OA.
IT'LL BE NO, WE WE WON'T BE, WON'T BE.
'CAUSE REMEMBER IT'S A MULTI-FAMILY PROJECT, CORRECT? CORRECT, CORRECT.
WE CONTINUE TO BE OWNED IN THE RESPONSIBILITY OF MR. WESLEY.
IT'S ONE PROPERTY, ONE PROPERTY OWNER.
WITH THE UNITS BEING FOR LEASE.
SO I GUESS THE OTHER TOPIC WE WANTED TO BRING UP BECAUSE, UH, IT, IT IS I THINK RELEVANT WITH RESPECT TO THE ENVIRONMENTAL REVIEW PURSUANT TO SEEKER IS THE CLUSTERING.
AGAIN, YOU KNOW, PREVIOUSLY WE'VE DISCUSSED, AND I DON'T THINK YOU'VE FORMALLY MADE A DETERMINATION, WE REALLY CAN'T ADVANCE THESE PLANS MUCH FURTHER.
MEANING CHRIS DOESN'T WANNA SPEND ALL THE TIME AND MONEY IN PREPARING FULLY ENGINEERED PLANS, WHICH ARE PRETTY EXTENSIVE TILL WE KNOW WHICH DIRECTION WE'RE GOING.
I THINK WE'VE BEEN WAITING FOR YOUR RESPONSES FOR OKAY, WE GOT, WE GOT SOME FAIR ENOUGH FROM THE PUBLIC ABOUT WHAT THE DELAYS WERE ON THIS AND WE'VE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS INPUT THAT I HADN'T REALIZED WAS COMING TODAY 'CAUSE WE HADN'T SEEN IT.
SO WE'RE GONNA, WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO LOOK AT IT.
THIS IS A LARGE VOLUME OF INFORMATION.
SO JUST FOR THE RECORD, UNFORTUNATELY DISAGREE, ANY OF THE PLANNING BOARD MEMBERS RASH, SEAN, RIGHT NOW, THE APPLICATION BEFORE US IS A REGULAR LAYOUT ON PARKER ROAD.
SO WE, OUR SECRET DECISION HAS TO BE ON THE REGULAR LAYOUT.
SO WELL, UNLESS IT GETS CHANGED, RIGHT? UNLESS IT GETS CHANGED.
THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE ASKING FOR.
'CAUSE RIGHT NOW YOUR ONLY SECRET DECISION WOULD BE ON THE REGULAR LAYOUT.
FOR EXAMPLE, IF YOU P ITS DECK, THAT REGULAR LAYOUT, OBVIOUSLY YOU'RE GONNA LOOK AT ALTERNATIVES LIKE A CLUSTER.
WHAT SEAN, I THINK IS ASKING IS DO YOU WANNA, JUST BASED UPON THE INFORMATION YOU HAVE SEEN NOW, WOULD YOU LIKE TO JUST CHANGE YOUR, YOUR RECOMMENDATION AND SAY LET'S LET'S EVALUATE THE CLUSTER OWNER CAN'T UNTIL I CAN'T
NO, YOU JUST, UNTIL I GO THIS, I'M OKAY.
WE'VE BEEN ASKING FOR A WHILE.
WE'RE NOT ASKING FOR THAT DECISION TONIGHT SAYING, AND SOMETIME IN THE FUTURE YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO MAKE THAT DECISION.
'CAUSE RIGHT NOW YOUR DECISION IS GONNA BE ON THE REGULAR LAYOUT.
THEY HAVE NOT HAVE APPROVED, BUT RIGHT.
OUR PREFERENCE GOING FORWARD WITH THE POINT BEING WELL TAKEN, YOU NEED TO REVIEW THE EXTENSIVE INFORMATION WE WRITE.
OUR PREFERENCE OF COURSE WOULD BE THAT ULTIMATELY THE SECRET DETERMINATION BE BASED ON THE CLUSTER LAYOUT.
THAT'S ALL IN WHICH CASE, WHAT YOU'RE ASKING FOR FROM US IS AN INDICATION THAT IT WOULD BE OUR PREFERENCE FOR YOU TO WITH WITHDRAW THE THIS REGULAR AND FOR US TO REVISIT, RE AUTHORIZE THE USE OF PLASTIC.
I THINK WHAT WE WOULD DO IS JUST AMEND OUR APPLICATION.
AND WE, WHICHEVER WAY YOU WANT, RE-VOTE ON IT.
SO PROCEDURALLY DREW, WHAT WOULD, WELL JENNIFER, WE WILL TAKE A LOOK AT IT, BUT MY UNDERSTANDING IS YOU HAVE A RESOLUTION NOT AUTHORIZING CLUSTER DEVELOPMENT.
THEY'VE MADE AN APPLICATION FOR A REGULAR LAYOUT.
YOU WOULD HAVE TO, THEY'D HAVE TO JUST AMEND THEIR, AGAIN, WE'D HAVE TO VOTE ON IT AGAIN AND, AND PROCEED FROM THERE.
AND THEN REMEMBER, BY AUTHORIZING CLUSTERING, YOU WOULDN'T BE APPROVING THE SUBDIVISION.
THAT WOULD GIVE CHRIS THE, THE GREEN LIGHT TO GO AHEAD AND THEN DO OF COURSE ALL THE ENGINEERING, YOU KNOW, SO IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT AN APPROVAL PER SE.
IT'S WHICH WAY ARE WE GOING DOWN THE PATH? WELL IT WOULD ACTUALLY WOULD BE APPROVED IF WE SAY IT'S OKAY FOR YOU TO NO, NO.
IF YOU SAY IT'S OKAY TO GO FORWARD YEAH, JUST FOR THEIR PLAN, THEN WE'D HAVE A SEPARATE DECISION ON SEEKER, RIGHT? CORRECT.
AND A SEPARATE DECISION ON PRELIMINARY PLAN.
IT'S ONLY FOR THEM TO PREPARE THEIR FURTHER PLANS.
I'VE SEEN IT'S, IT IS RARE THE WAY YOUR LAW IS WRITTEN.
YOU AUTHORIZE CLUSTER TO PRESENT THAT CLUSTER, YOU COULD STILL HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT CLUSTER.
IT DOESN'T GUARANTEE THAT THEY GET APPROVAL OF IT.
YOU STILL HAVE TO COMPLETE SEEKER.
AND THEN YOU STILL HAVE TO APPROVE A PRELIMINARY PLAT WITH ALL ENGINEERING INPUT AND WHATEVER.
I'VE SEEN IT HAPPEN IN MY 20, 25 YEARS.
AND THEN A CLUSTER GETS DISAPPROVED AFTER THEY APPROVE THE USE OF IT.
THAT'S WHY I JUST WANNA MAKE THAT CLEAR.
IT'S A GRANTING TO ALLOW 'EM TO PROCEED WITH, WITH THAT APPLICATION.
BUT JENNIFER AND I WILL WORK ON
[01:10:01]
IF, IF YOU'RE CONSIDERING THAT, AGAIN, WE'RE NOT TELLING YOU, YOU HAVE TO MAKE THAT DECISION IN THE NEXT COUPLE MEETINGS BASED UPON THE INFORMATION THEY SUBMITTED, THEY'RE ASKING IF YOU WOULD RECONSIDER THAT.SO JENNIFER, CAN YOU PROVIDE US WITH SOME SORT OF DOCUMENTATION THAT IF THAT WERE THE, WHAT WOULD BE ENTAILED WITH THAT PROCESS PROCEDURALLY AND SHARE THAT WITH THE BOARD SO THAT WE UNDERSTAND.
SO, UM, ANY FURTHER DIRECTION.
MY UNDERSTANDING IS WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THIS TONIGHT BECAUSE THIS IS WHAT'S BEEN PRESENTED IN THE PAST.
WE CAN'T TALK ABOUT ANYTHING ELSE BECAUSE THAT INFORMATION HAS NOT BEEN PRESENTED TO YOU RIGHT.
SO IS THERE ANY FURTHER INPUT WHY WE HAVE THE EXPERT HERE TONIGHT, RIGHT ON THE ISSUE OF THE RIPARIAN CAR? I THINK NOT RIGHT NOW.
I THINK, UH, I'M GONNA HAVE TO LOOK AT IT AND DO SOME RESEARCH AND LOOK AT THIS.
I MEAN THIS IS, I THINK THERE WA LET ME SUMMARIZE.
I THINK WE DID RECEIVE SOME INPUT
WE DID RECEIVE SOME INPUT ON THIS.
I THINK THE INPUT WAS BASICALLY CONSIDER LOOKING AT SOME PLANTINGS ON THE OPPOSITE SIDE OF THE TRIBUTARY, ON THE MANCO SITE.
CONSIDER ADDING SOME PLANTINGS NEXT TO THE ONE ADJOINING MULTI-FAMILY BUILDING ON THE WETZEL SITE.
AND CLEARLY DENOTE TO THE EXTENT IT HAS A DIFFERENT WIDTH IN DIFFERENT LOCATIONS.
AND I THINK IF, IF EARTH DIMENSIONS CAN PROVIDE A SHORT PAGE SAYING OUR BEST PRACTICES FOR DESIGN ARE THIS, HERE'S WHAT WE BASE IT ON AND HERE'S HOW WE, THAT'S A GOOD IDEA.
ANYTHING THAT WE CAN HAVE FOR THE FILE TO SUBSTANTIATE, PREFERABLY ANYWHERE YOU CAN REFER TO DESIGN STANDARDS, BEST PRACTICES, PEER REVIEW PUBLICATIONS, THAT WOULD BE OKAY.
IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE LONG, BUT HERE'S WHAT THE PROCEDURE IS AND HERE'S WHY WE DIDN'T JUST PUT THIS ON A MAP.
THIS, THIS IS WHY OUR PROFESSIONAL EXPERTISE IS BACKED BY.
SO I THINK THAT SUMMARIZES MANKO AGAIN, GIVEN THAT YOU JUST GOT EXTENSIVE DOCUMENTATION AND YOU HAVE ANOTHER MEETING IN A SHORT TWO WEEKS.
LET'S ADJOURN THIS PROJECT TILL YOUR SECOND MEETING IN SEPTEMBER.
UNLESS SOMEONE HAS AN OBJECTION WHY PROJECT OR WE'LL BE DOING BOTH.
THERE'S SOME SIMILAR INFORMATION OBVIOUSLY FOR THE WETZEL PROJECT AS WELL.
ALRIGHT, SO I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO TABLE DAVID MANKO TO SEPTEMBER 15TH.
NEXT ITEM ON THE AGENDA IS GLEN WETZEL REQUESTING REZONING OF VACANT LAND LOCATED ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF BIG TREE ROAD EAST OF 4 2 5 5 MCKINLEY PARKWAY FROM C ONE AND R ONE TWO R THREE.
HE'S PROBABLY GO INTO ANOTHER BOX, GIVE US ANOTHER PHONE.
WE MIGHT HAVE TO DO THIS IN NOVEMBER.
WE UH, GET AN EXTRA COPY OF THE I GOT SO, SO NEXT TIME YOU SHOULD WHOLE PUNCH EM TO GO IN THOSE BINDERS.
I KNOW YOU NEED TO DRILL THE FULL PUNCH.
SEAN, I'VE TAKEN THREE OF THESE.
IS THAT OKAY OR NO? TWO FOR, YEAH, TWO FOR THE FILE.
I THINK I MADE ENOUGH FOR EVERYONE.
DOES CAMMY NEED ONE? IS THERE ANY REASON THAT CAM NEEDS ONE? YEAH, THAT'S WHY I TOOK TWO FOR THE FILE AND SHE CAN GIVE ONE TO ENGINEER IT.
YEAH, SO JUST SO YOU KNOW, I'LL ALSO EMAIL COPIES OF BOTH OF THESE SO I CAN OBVIOUSLY POSTED ON THE WEBSITE.
I KNOW SOME OF YOU WOULD PREFER PROBABLY TO REVIEW THEM ELECTRONICALLY.
SO SEAN HOPKINS ON BEHALF OF THE APPLICANT WETZEL DEVELOPMENT LLC.
ALSO WITH ME AGAIN ARE JODY CELESTE FROM EARTH DIMENSIONS.
CHRIS WOOD FROM CARMINA WOOD MORRIS.
AS I INDICATED IN CONNECTION WITH THE REVIEW OF THE MANCO PROJECT, WE'VE PREVIOUSLY RECEIVED A DRAFT OF PART TWO OF A F AND A TABLE TITLED PART THREE CONSIDERATIONS.
THE SUBMISSION THAT I'VE JUST PROVIDED YOU WITH THIS EVENING, UH, SUMMARIZES RESPONSES TO THAT INFORMATION THAT WE'VE RECEIVED TO DATE.
AS IS THE CASE WITH THE MANCO PROJECT.
GIVEN YOU HAVE SOME EXTENSIVE DOCUMENTATION TO REVIEW, WE WOULD ASK THAT THIS BE TABLED TILL YOUR SECOND MEETING IN SEPTEMBER.
I DO WANNA NOTE ON BOTH OF THESE PROJECTS, GIVEN THAT IT'S A FOUR WEEK PERIOD AS YOU REVIEW THAT EXTENSIVE DOCUMENTATION, IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, DO FEEL FREE TO EMAIL 'EM TO JENNIFER DREW AND OR SARAH AND IF YOU WANT THOSE RELAYED TO US SO THAT WE CAN TAKE A LOOK AT 'EM AND BE PREPARED TO DISCUSS THEM AT THAT SECOND MEETING SEPTEMBER, THAT WOULD CERTAINLY BE ACCEPTABLE.
MY SAME COMMENTS ON DOCUMENTATION FOR DIMENSIONS APPLY SINCE THE PLAN COVERS BOTH, RIGHT? SO THAT DOCUMENTATION THAT YOU'VE REQUESTED MCCORMICK IN CONNECTION WITH THE MANCO PROJECT WILL SUMMARIZE IT
[01:15:01]
BECAUSE THE RIPARIAN BUFFER OF PLAN APPLIES TO BOTH JUST FOR PURPOSE OF THE MINUTES.OH, I DO WANNA NOTE THIS ONE OTHER THING I FORGOT.
OKAY, SO AS YOU ALSO RECALL FOR SOME CONSIDERABLE TIME, I'VE BEEN TRYING TO GET COMMENTS OUT OF EDWARD KOWSKI.
AS YOU'LL RECALL, WE ORIGINALLY HAD TWO CURB CUTS ON THE CURRENT PLAN.
WE'RE NOW AT ONE CURB CUT THAT'S DIRECTLY OPPOSITE THE MULTI-FAMILY PROJECT.
UH, AN EMAIL WAS SENT BY EDWARD KOWSKI OF THE NEW YORK STATE DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION TO SARAH DARD AND MYSELF LATE THIS AFTERNOON STATING THAT THAT IS ACCEPTABLE AND CONFIRMING THAT IT'S DOT'S POSITION THAT THESE PROJECTS WILL NOT HAVE POTENTIALLY SIGNIFICANT ADVERSE IMPACTS ON THE STATE HIGHWAY SYSTEM.
AND I DO HAVE COPIES OF THOSE EMAILS BACK THERE ON THE DESK IF YOU'D LIKE.
IF YOU'D LIKE ONE, I WILL GO GET THEM.
OTHERWISE I'LL SUBMIT IT ELECTRONICALLY.
AND THAT LITERALLY CAME IN SHORTLY BEFORE 5:00 PM HE'S GOT THREE DAYS LEFT.
SO
UM, IF YOU HAVE EXTRA COPIES OF THOSE SUBMITTALS, CAN I TAKE ONE OF EACH TO PROVIDE THE CONSERVATION ADVISORY BOARD? WELL THEN HE, JUST SO YOU HAVE NO MORE LEFT, YOU DON'T WANNA TAKE A WITH YOU, I'LL MAKE SURE THESE ARE DELIVERED.
YOU JUST HAND IT OUT FOR ME AND ONE FOR, SO WHAT I PROVIDED YOU WITH IS A COPY OF THE EMAIL THAT WAS ISSUED BY EDWARD RAKOWSKI.
AS YOU CAN SEE, IT'S BASED ON THE ATTACHED PLAN, WHICH IS THE MOST RECENT PLAN.
WE MADE THAT CHANGE PREVIOUSLY THAT DID RESULT IN REDUCTION OF THE DENSITY OF THE WETZEL MULTIFAMILY PROJECT FROM WHAT WAS ORIGINALLY PROPOSED OF 156 UNITS TO 150 UNITS.
SO IT'S GOOD TO FINALLY HAVE THAT CROSSED OFF THE LIST.
OTHER THAN THAT, THERE'S NO OTHER QUESTIONS.
AND AGAIN, UH, IF THERE'S ANY INPUT BASED ON THE EXTENSIVE DOCUMENTATION WE PROVIDED, UH, WE WILL DO OUR BEST TO ADDRESS IT IN A TIMELY MANNER.
AND I DO WANT, THERE IS ONE THING I WANT TO DO.
I DO WANNA KNOW BECAUSE WE SPEND A LOT OF TIME REVIEWING IT.
I DO WANNA, WHILE IN ALL INSTANCES I DON'T AGREE WITH, UH, SOME OF THE PRELIMINARY FINDINGS, I DO WANT TO AT LEAST INDICATE ON THE RECORD THAT THE SUBCOMMITTEE OBVIOUSLY VERY CLEAR LOOKING AT THE DOCUMENTATION THAT THEY SPENT A LOT OF TIME AND EFFORT IN PREPARING THAT AND IT WAS THOROUGHLY PREPARED AND WELL.
A MOTION TO TABLE, WHAT ARE, WE HAVE GLEN WETZEL TO SEPTEMBER 15TH.
EVERYONE HAVE A GREAT LABOR DAY.
I, NO, NO, I KNOW SHE SAID IT AHEAD OF ME.
SARAH ALSO JUST MESSAGED ME THAT SHE'S GONNA SEND YOU THE TOMORROW MY OFFICE.
I DON'T WERE YOU TALKING TO JENNIFER ABOUT ISSUES WITH THE MINUTES? YES.
SO YOU WANNA NOT DO THOSE TODAY.
SO MAKE A MOTION TO ADJOURN MEETING.
MOTION CARRIED IN, IN YOUR PACKET.
ARE THOSE KIND OF CHECKLISTS AND PROCEDURES IF ELECTRONICALLY THEM.