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YOU PUSH? ALL RIGHT.WELCOME TO THE COLIN HAMMER CLAIM BOARD.
I'M BOB MAHONEY, SEAT FOR BILL CLARK AND WON'T BE HERE THIS EVENING.
AND WELCOME TO EVERYBODY AND IF EVERYBODY'S HEALTHY AND SAFE.
UM, TODAY, THE FIRST THING IN THE WORK SESSION IS DAVID BURKE REQUESTING ZONING OF PORTION OF A VACANT LAND LOCATED ON THE WEST SIDE RILEY BOULEVARD AT THE C TWO NC ORDER TO CONSTRUCT A WORKFORCE RENTAL HOUSING PROJECT.
WE'RE THE ENGINEERS FOR THE PROJECT.
SO I'M HERE ON BEHALF OF PARK GROVE DEVELOPMENT, ALAN HANDELMAN AND TIM CURLEY ON THE END THERE, BOTH FROM PARK GROVE.
THEY'RE THE APPLICANT AND POTENTIAL BUYERS OF THIS PROPERTY FROM MR. BURKE.
UM, THE SUPPOSING IS A DEVELOPMENT OF 70 UNITS OF MULTI-FAMILY HOUSING ON THE 7.5 ACRES.
UM, THAT ACREAGE IS CURRENTLY ZONED AND REALLY THIS WHOLE AREA IS, UM, B TWO COMMERCIAL.
IT'S ON RILEY BOULEVARD, WHICH IS BETWEEN BAYVIEW ROAD, UM, OR IT'S JUST TO THE WEST OF BAYVIEW ROAD.
SO CURRENTLY, YOU KNOW, BEING ZONED B TWO, UM, BEEN SITTING THERE FOR NEARLY 15 YEAR YEARS.
RILEY BOULEVARD WAS BUILT OVER A DECADE AND A HALF AGO AND, YOU KNOW, IT PROBABLY ISN'T THE MOST APPROPRIATE ZONING FOR THIS PARCEL.
UM, IN FACT, I WAS JUST COMMENTING WHEN WE WERE WALKING IN TODAY, WE WERE WA WANDERING AROUND UPSTAIRS.
AND AS PART OF THE RECENT, UM, COMPREHENSIVE PLANNING EFFORTS THAT ARE UNDERWAY, THERE'S ACTUALLY A CIRCLE RIGHT AROUND THIS AREA, ONE OF THE FUTURE LAND MAP USE MAPS THAT SPECIFICALLY SAYS, WHY IS THIS AREA ZONED THIS WAY? AND A LOT OF THINGS HAVE CHANGED IN THE LAST 10 YEARS.
CERTAINLY A LOT OF THINGS HAVE CHANGED, UM, IN THE LAST FEW YEARS WITH THE COVID AND EVERYTHING THAT'S HAPPENED WITH THAT, SPECIFICALLY AS IT RELATES TO RETAIL AND COMMERCIAL TYPE DEVELOPMENT.
UM, SPECIFICALLY, YOU KNOW, THE DEMAND FOR THOSE TYPES OF SPACES AND THAT SAME COMPREHENSIVE PLANNING EFFORT THAT'S CURRENTLY UNDERWAY.
YOU KNOW, GOING BACK AND READING THROUGH SOME OF THE SURVEY RESULTS FROM THE COMMUNITY, UM, THAT OCCURRED LAST YEAR, ONE OF THE MAIN CONCERNS, UM, IN THE COMMUNITY IS THE AMOUNT OF VACANT AND VACATED RETAIL SPACE THROUGHOUT THE TOWN.
UM, CERTAINLY IN AREAS THAT ARE MUCH MORE APPROPRIATE FOR COMMERCIAL TYPE DEVELOPMENT IN THE VILLAGE CENTERS, IN THE HAMLET AREAS, UM, YOU KNOW, WHERE RETAIL IS, YOU KNOW, MUCH MORE ACCEPTABLE.
SO TO TRY TO BUILD SOMETHING THAT'S ALLOWED FOR THE V TWO ZONING IN THIS AREA PROBABLY DOESN'T MAKE A WHOLE LOT OF OF SENSE HERE IN 2022.
IF YOU GO THROUGH THE V TWO ZONING DISTRICT CODE, UM, WHICH AGAIN IS WHAT IS CURRENTLY ZONED TODAY, UM, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A WHOLE LITANY OF THINGS THAT ARE ALLOWED.
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YOU COULD DO A HOTEL, YOU COULD DO A RESTAURANT, YOU COULD DO RETAIL, YOU KNOW, ALL THE TYPICAL THINGS THAT YOU MIGHT SEE ON A COMMERCIAL CORRIDOR.UM, YOU KNOW, WHETHER IT IS ADJACENCY TO THE SCHOOL.
AGAIN, REALLY NOT REALLY SURE THAT THAT'S C TWO, OR I'M SORRY, B TWO ZONING IS APPROPRIATE.
SO WHAT WE'RE CONSIDERING, AS IT SAYS IN THE AGENDA THAT'S BEFORE YOU, IS REZONING 7 5, 7 0.5 ACRES TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD COMMERCIAL TO SUPPORT THE DEVELOPMENT OF, UM, THE HOUSING PROJECT.
AGAIN, EACH ONE OF THESE BUILDINGS, WHICH I'LL SHOW YOU HERE QUICKLY, AND WE CAN LOOK AT 'EM MORE LATER IF YOU'D LIKE, BUT THEY ARE ABOUT TWO AND A HALF STORIES.
EACH ONE OF THESE BUILDINGS IS 10 UNITS, AND AGAIN, THEY ARE ALL RENTAL PROPERTY.
SO SEVEN BUILDINGS, EACH OF 10 UNITS.
THAT'S HOW WE GET TOWARDS 70 UNITS.
UM, IT WOULD ALSO HAVE A COMMUNITY CENTER SLASH CLUBHOUSE RIGHT HERE AT THE ENTRANCE.
AND THEN THERE'S TWO CURB CUTS ON RILEY BOULEVARD THAT ARE PROPOSED.
UM, WHEN WE'RE GOING FROM A COMMERCIAL ZONING DISTRICT TO A RESIDENTIAL ZONING DISTRICT, WE REALLY CONSIDER THAT, UM, WHAT WE CALL IT OR DOWN ZONING.
THE REASON WHY WE CALL IT DOWN ZONING IS BECAUSE THE USE ITSELF IS MUCH LESS INTENSE WHEN YOU LOOK AT A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT ENVIRONMENTAL EXAMPLES.
FOR EXAMPLE, IN THE COMMERCIAL ZONING DISTRICT, YOU'RE ALLOWED TO HAVE UP TO 85% LODGE COVERAGE.
SO PAVEMENT AND ROOFS, UM, YOU KNOW, WITH ONLY 15% GREEN SPACE WITH OUR PARTICULAR PROPOSAL, WHICH IS JUST UNDER 10 UNITS ACRE, WE HAVE ALMOST 70% GREEN SPACE.
SO, YOU KNOW, THAT'S MORE THAN FOUR TIMES WHAT MIGHT OTHERWISE BE PROVIDED.
IF THIS WAS DEVELOPED AS COMMERCIAL, OF COURSE THAT'S GONNA BE MORE GREEN SPACE, MORE SUSTAINABLE, LESS IMPACT ON STORMWATER, LESS IMPACT ON GROUND COVERAGE, UM, GROUNDWATER RECHARGE AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE.
ALSO, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THINGS LIKE TRAFFIC, YOU KNOW, A SEVEN ACRE PARCEL COULD SUPPORT 50 TO 60,000 SQUARE FEET OF COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT, WHICH IS GONNA SPIN OFF ABOUT 250 TO 300, EXCUSE ME, CARS PER HOUR DURING THE PEAK HOUR OF TRAFFIC.
WHEREAS THIS DEVELOPMENT, YOU KNOW, BASED ON THE IT TRIP GENERATION MAIL, IT'S GONNA MAX OUT AT ABOUT 40 CARS PER HOUR.
SO THAT'S REALLY ONLY ABOUT A 10TH OF WHAT COULD THEORETICALLY BE HERE IF IT WAS A COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT.
SO AGAIN, ON THAT, UM, JUST TRYING TO, YOU KNOW, TALK TO THE IDEA OF WHY WE'RE REFERRING TO IT AS DOWN ZONING.
YOU KNOW, WE WOULD HAVE 14 FOOT RESIDENTIAL STYLE LIGHT FIXTURES INSTEAD OF 30 FOOT HIGH COMMERCIAL, UM, LIGHT FIXTURES.
AND YOU KNOW, SO THERE'S A WHOLE LITANY OF, UM, YOU KNOW, DIFFERENT EXAMPLES WHEN IT COMES TO ENVIRONMENTAL REVIEW ON WHY, UM, YOU KNOW, MULTIFAMILY PROJECT IS LESS IMPACTFUL IN THAT RESPECT.
YOU KNOW, ALONG THE LINES OF TRAFFIC, THE PARCEL WORKS OUT REALLY WELL FOR THIS TYPE OF DEVELOPMENT BECAUSE WE CAN PROVIDE ACCESS DIRECTLY OFF OF RILEY.
YOU KNOW, RILEY WAS DESIGNED TO BE A FEEDER ROAD WITH, YOU KNOW, EXIT POINTS, UM, AT BAYVIEW HERE TO THE EAST AND ALSO TO THE SOUTH.
UM, SO WE DON'T NEED ANY MAJOR CURB CUTS ON A MAJOR ARTERIAL ROADWAY SO PEOPLE CAN ACCESS, UM, AND GET OUTTA THE PROPERTY RELATIVELY EASILY WITHOUT CAUSING ANY KIND OF DANGEROUS, UM, TURNING MOVEMENTS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
YOU KNOW, AS YOU GO AROUND THE PROPERTY, THERE ARE LIKE LARGE GREEN AREAS THAT WE'VE SET ASIDE.
THERE'S A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF SCREENING AND BUFFERING ALL THE WAY AROUND.
UM, THERE'S A CURRENT STORMWATER MANAGEMENT AREA THAT WAS BUILT WHEN RILEY BOULEVARD WAS BUILT, AGAIN ABOUT 15 YEARS AGO THAT CALLED FOR A FUTURE EXPANSION IN THIS AREA.
UM, SO WE ARE CERTAINLY, UM, HONORING THAT IN TERMS OF THAT HOUSING NEED.
YOU KNOW, THERE ARE A, UM, A BUNCH OF OTHER MULTI-FAMILY TYPE PROJECTS IN THIS AREA.
YOU KNOW, ONE RECENTLY BUILT, UM, ALL OVER HERE TO OUR EAST THAT'S OF APPROXIMATELY THREE STORIES.
THERE'S SOME DUPLEXES ON THE OTHER SIDE OF BAYVIEW AND THEN SOME OTHER MULTI-FAMILY APARTMENTS AROUND HERE.
SO IT'S CERTAINLY NOT, UM, FOREIGN TO THE AREA.
AND WITH MULTI-FAMILY BEING LITERALLY RIGHT HERE, UM, YOU KNOW, THERE IS THAT CONNECTIVITY.
IT'S NOT LIKE WE'RE TRYING TO DO AN APARTMENT PROJECT OUT IN THE MIDDLE OF SOME ZONE WHERE THERE'S NO SIMILAR USES, UM, ANYWHERE NEAR US.
BUT IN TERMS OF HOUSING DEMAND, WE DID COMPLETE A MARKET STUDY.
UM, FOR THOSE OF YOU FAMILIAR WITH MARKET STUDIES, THE, UH, THE MAGIC NUMBER, IF YOU WILL, IS WHAT WE CALL THE CAPTURE RATE.
ANYTHING AT 10% OR UNDER IS CONSIDERED A, UM, STRONG MARKET.
ANYTHING AT 5% OR UNDER IS CONSIDERED AN EXTREMELY STRONG MARKET, AND THE CAPTURE RATE FOR THIS AREA IS AT 3%.
SO THAT'S, UH, WHAT WE WOULD, YOU KNOW, THAT'S ONE OF THE LOWEST ONES I'VE EVER SEEN, WHICH IS CERTAINLY INDICATIVE THAT THERE IS A NEED, UM, FOR THIS TYPE OF HOUSING.
SO WE ARE CAN YOU, CAN YOU DEFINE WORKFORCE HOUSING? YEAH.
SO, YOU KNOW, WORKFORCE HOUSING ESSENTIALLY, REALLY WITHOUT GOING INTO, UM, TOO MANY OF THE DETAILS IS THAT ALAN AND TIM AND THEIR TEAM ARE ABLE TO, UM, TAKE ADVANTAGE OF CERTAIN PROGRAMS THAT THE STATE HAS THAT PROVIDES THEM WITH FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE AND THAT'S FIND OUT THE BEST TERM.
BUT BASICALLY I GIVE 'EM SOME ADDITIONAL
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CAPITAL TO HELP THEM BUILD A HIGH QUALITY HOUSING, BUT THEN OFFER IT AT A RATE THAT IS, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING THAT SOMEBODY THAT'S IN THE WORKFORCE WOULD BE ABLE TO RENT.I MEAN, PEOPLE WHO HAVE RENTED APARTMENTS RECENTLY, YOU KNOW, ESPECIALLY ANY NEW HIGH QUALITY TYPE PRODUCT THAT HAS THE TYPES OF FINISHES THAT THIS WOULD, OR CERTAINLY ANYTHING, YOU KNOW, THAT LOOKS LIKE THIS IS BEING RENTED AT 15, $1,600 FOR A ONE BEDROOM APPROACHING $2,000 FOR A TWO BEDROOM.
UM, AND THAT'S JUST THE WAY THAT THE MARKET RATE PRODUCT IS TODAY.
BUT BY UTILIZING AND PUTTING IN THE EFFORT TO, UM, YOU KNOW, USE THOSE PROGRAMS AT THE STATE HOUSES IN PLACE, YOU KNOW, WE CAN THEN LOWER THOSE RENTS SLIGHTLY SO THAT YOU KNOW, PEOPLE THAT ARE, YOU KNOW, YOUNG FAMILIES OR YOU KNOW, PEOPLE THAT HAVE RETIRED AND DON'T HAVE AN INCOME, UM, YOU KNOW, ARE ABLE TO LIVE IN THE COMMUNITY WITHOUT HAVING TO PAY 30, 40, 50% OF THEIR INCOME IN RENTS.
CAN YOU EXPOUND ON, SORRY, CAN YOU EXPOUND ON WHAT AGE YOU'RE GETTING FROM THE STATE? OR IS THIS JUST ANOTHER NAME FOR LOW INCOME HOUSING? IT'S CERTAINLY NOT ANOTHER NAME FOR LOW INCOME HOUSING.
I MEAN, AS FAR AS HOUSING GOES, UM, YOU KNOW, PER FEDERAL WELL, WHAT REGULATIONS? YOU, YOU CAN'T GET TOO MUCH IN THAT CONVERSATION.
WELL, MY QUESTION IS WHAT STATE PROGRAMS ARE YOU TAKING ADVANTAGE OF? WHAT WAS THAT? WOULD THEY HAVE WHAT'S CALLED A TAX CREDIT PROGRAM WHERE THEY ACTUALLY, THE RESOURCES THAT THE STATE PROVIDES TO THE DEVELOPER COMES IN THE FORM OF TAX CREDITS.
THE DEVELOPER THEN TAKES THOSE TAX CREDITS AND SYNDICATES 'EM AND SELLS 'EM TO, YOU KNOW, SOME HUGE COMPANIES, HUGE NATIONAL COMPANIES.
UM, AND THEN THAT MONEY THAT THEY GET BACK ALLOWS THEM TO OFFSET THE COST OF CONSTRUCTION, WHICH THEN ALLOWS THEM TO KEEP THE RENTS A LITTLE BIT LOWER THAN THEY MIGHT OTHERWISE BE.
SO IS THE TOWN OF HAMBURG GONNA BE GIVING 'EM A TAX BREAK ON THIS? NO, THIS WILL BE TAXED IN ACCORDANCE WITH ALL TAX FEDERAL TAX.
ARE ARE THEY LOOKING TO GET ANYTHING FROM THE, UH, UH, IDA, THE IDA? I'M SORRY, MAY I WOULD DEFER TO A TIM, WE, WE HAVE, UM, WE HAVE NOT APPROACHED THE IDA AT THIS POINT TO SOMEBODY.
DO YOU ON, I MEAN, I, I'M JUST TRYING TO GET THIS WHOLE THING.
I I NEVER HEARD OF A WORKFORCE DEVELOPMENT IN THIS SENSE THAT IT IS ACTUAL HOUSING.
AND I'M JUST TRYING TO FIGURE OUT, YOU'RE GETTING ALL THESE BENEFITS, YOU'RE LOWERING YOUR RENT.
ARE THERE ANY RESTRICTIONS AS TO WHO CAN RENT? IS THERE AN INCOME GUIDELINE THERE? THERE ARE INCOME GUIDELINES.
IT'S, IT'S TARGETED, UH, TO HOUSEHOLDS EARNING, UM, UP TO 60% OF THE AREA MEDIAN INCOME FOR YOUR COUNTY.
I DON'T HAVE IT OFF TOP OF MY HEAD, BUT IT'S PROBABLY ROUGHLY 80, 80,000, 78,000.
SO IT'S FOR PEOPLE MAKING $50,000 A YEAR, YOU KNOW, THAT COULD BE, I'M SURE ALL OF US HERE KNOW PEOPLE IF NOT OURSELVES, THAT ARE MAKING BIGGER.
AND YOU'RE AWARE HAMBURGERS 10% RIGHT.
AFFORDABLE HOUSING FOR DEVELOPMENT.
SO THIS WOULD BE A HUNDRED PERCENT AFFORDABLE HOUSING, CORRECT? WELL, I'M JUST SAYING YOU'RE AWARE.
THIS WOULD ALL FOLLOW BECAUSE, UM, ON ON THE AFFORDABLE HOUSING, WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS WHAT YOU'RE, YOU'RE INDICATING, YOU KNOW, YOU GET VOUCHERS IN THAT FOR INCOMES FOR CERTAIN PEOPLE WHERE THEY HAVE, IF LIKE A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF MONEY YOU CAN GET VOUCHERS FROM THE STATE FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING.
IS THAT PROGRAM BEING ALLOWED FOR HERE? SO IF MY INCOME IS JUST RIGHT AT THE POVERTY OF YOUR LEVEL, THAT'S MY POINT.
DO THEY GET A, THEY GET A VOUCHER IF THEY GET ON A LIST FOR VOUCHERS FOR HOUSING PEOPLE.
LIKE THEY GET MEDICAID, THEY GET HOUSING IF, IF OTHERS, IF A HOUSEHOLD APPLIES AND HAS A VOUCHER, WE, WE DO NOT DISCRIMINATE AGAINST 'EM BECAUSE THEY HAVE A VOUCHER.
THEY, THEY, THEY, THEY STILL NEED TO, UH, PASS CREDIT CHECKS, UM, AND THE LIKE.
YEAH, IT'S A PRETTY, UM, YOU KNOW, DETAILED AND INTENSE SCREENING PROCESS.
FOR ANY RESIDENT, LIKE, TO PIGGYBACK, MR. CHAPMAN WAS SAYING ON THESE, THESE STIPENDS OR WHATEVER YOU'RE GETTING THROUGH, ARE THEY GRANTS? ARE THEY ARE CONSIDERED GRANTS THAT YOU'RE GETTING A, WITH SOME, SOME OF IT'S CAP THAT THE TAX CREDITS COMING THE FORM OF CAPITAL INVESTMENT.
UH, AND THEN THERE'S LOW INTEREST LOANS FROM THE STATE.
AND THEN ALONG WITH A TRADITIONAL BANK MORTGAGE BE, BEFORE WE GET TOO FAR AHEAD, UH, I HAD A QUESTION ON THE CURB CUTS.
THERE'S A NEW ROAD GOING IN THERE.
IF IT'S NOT IN THERE, I BELIEVE IT'S IN THERE ALREADY.
WHERE ARE THOSE CURB CUTS IN RELATION TO THE, UH, THE NEW ROAD THAT, THAT'S GONNA SERVICE? THE, UH, THE CAR WASH.
SO THE CURB CUTS ARE BOTH OVER HERE.
THE CAR WASH IS BACK IN OVER HERE TO THE EAST OF, WELL, TO THE EAST OF US, AND WELL OFFSET FROM OUR CURB CUTS.
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UH, A COUPLE THINGS.UM, WITH RESPECT TO THE SCREENING PROCESS, IS THERE A REQUIREMENT THAT, UH, APPLICANTS BE A PART OF THE WORKFORCE, WHATEVER THAT MEANS? WELL, THERE'S THE INCOME LIMITATIONS THAT ALAN WAS.
SO YOU CAN'T, IT'S RELATED TO INCOME RATHER THAN SOME PROOF THAT YOU'RE, YOU CAN'T BE MAKING $200,000 A YEAR AND COME HERE, YOU KNOW, WHERE THIS ENTIRE PURPOSE OF THIS IS FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE MAKING 50 AND $60,000 A YEAR, CAN'T FIND A PLACE TO LIVE.
WE MAKE SURE THAT PEOPLE AREN'T MAKING TOO MUCH MONEY, BUT WE ALSO DO THE CREDIT CHECKS AND EVERYTHING ELSE TO MAKE SURE THAT PEOPLE DO HAVE THE FINANCIAL RESOURCES TO BE ABLE TO, YEAH.
IT, IT, IT'S A FAILED BUSINESS MODEL TO ACCEPT TENANTS AND RESIDENTS INTO A PROJECT THAT CAN'T PAY THE RENT.
SO THAT'S, IT'S INCUMBENT UPON US AS, AS OWNERS AND PROPERTY MANAGERS TO MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE A HEALTHY, UH, RESIDENTIAL COMMUNITY.
SO YOU'RE FOCUSED, SO YOU'RE FOCUSED ON THE LOWER INCOME, BUT YOU MENTIONED SOME ABOUT RETIREES.
SO IF SOMEBODY'S RETIRED AND YOU KNOW, THEY'RE, THEY'RE, UM, LIKE MR. CHAPMAN, WELL OFF AND HE'S RETIRED, CAN HE GO INTO THAT BECAUSE OF HIS INVESTMENTS AND COME INTO THIS? NO, THERE'D BE, THERE'D BE LI I, I CAN'T SPEAK TO DETAILS, BUT THERE ARE LIMITATIONS IN TERMS OF, UH, ASSET TESTS AND, AND WOULD THAT I'M NOT, THAT'S WHAT I WAS GETTING AT.
AND I'M NOT, I'M NOT TRYING TO THROW DARTS, BUT WOULDN'T THAT BE A FORM OF DISCRIMINATION? THERE'S, OR DISPARITY, I'LL USE A DIFFERENT WORD.
YOU'RE TREATING SOMEBODY DIFFERENTLY THAN SOME, I MEAN, BECAUSE I'M LOW INCOME AND MR. CHAPMAN IS WELL INVESTED IN WHATEVER HIS INVESTMENTS ARE, ISN'T THAT TYPE OF A DISPARITY? I, UM, FROM MY POINT OF VIEW, NO.
I MEAN, I THINK THIS IS, THESE ARE, THESE ARE THESE, THESE ARE, THESE ARE LOCAL STATE AND, AND FEDERAL PROGRAMS THAT ARE DESIGNED FOR THIS PURPOSE.
YOU KNOW, THE, YOU KNOW, IF YOU, THE, THERE THERE ANY NUMBER OF INCENTIVES TO, UH, FOR PEOPLE THAT ARE WELL OFF TO LIVE IN, IN CERTAIN COMMUNITIES AND, AND DIFFERENT TYPES, CONDO SETTINGS AND STUFF LIKE THAT.
NO, I UNDERSTAND YOUR CONCEPT AND I, I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT I'M CLEAR.
IN MY HAD THAT, YOU'RE RIGHT, YOU MENTIONED NO, NO DISCRIMINATION AND NO, I JUST WANTED, WANTED IT TO GO BOTH WAYS.
I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW MUCH ABOUT THIS LIKE, ABOUT VOUCHERS AND AFFORDABLE HOUSING, BUT, UM, YOU HAD SAID YOU DON'T DISCRIMINATE BASED ON VOUCHERS OBVIOUSLY.
'CAUSE YOU CAN'T, BUT SO DOES THAT MEAN IT'S JUST LIKE ANYONE CAN LIVE HERE AND IT'S JUST INCOME DETERMINATIVE LIKE A 26-YEAR-OLD RIGHT OUT OF UNDERGRAD AND HAS 50 GRAND CAN APPLY TO LIVE HERE? IT IT, THE, UM, THE INCOME GUIDELINES ARE ADJUSTED BY, ADJUSTED BY A FAMILY SIZE.
BUT ASSUMING THAT A 26-YEAR-OLD, UH, WHO HAD SUFFICIENT INCOME TO PAY FOR THE APARTMENT AND HAD A GOOD, EITHER A GOOD RENTAL HISTORY OR GOOD CREDIT HISTORY, UH, AND, UM, YOU KNOW, PASS CRIMINAL BACKGROUND CHECK.
THEY WOULD BE, THEY WOULD BE ELIGIBLE.
SO ANYBODY CAN APPLY AS LONG AS YOU MEET THE, THE, AS LONG AS YOU DON'T HAVE TO MEET ANY PROGRAMS OR ANYTHING, LIKE ANYBODY CAN APPLY, ANYONE CAN APPLY THE, UH, THERE, THERE, THERE IS A SET ASIDE IN, IN OUR, IN OUR FUNDING PROCESS FOR HOUSEHOLDS, UM, FOR A HANDICAP, UH, AS WELL AS HEARING AND VISUALLY.
UH, AND PRI THINK THERE'S A, THERE'S SEVEN UNITS THAT ARE, THAT ARE, UH, FULLY ADAPTED AND MADE AVAILABLE TO THAT COMMUNITY.
AND, UH, I BELIEVE THREE THAT ARE, THAT ARE DEDICATED, THAT ARE NOT DEDICATED BUT ARE, HAVE BEEN ADAPTED FOR HEARING AND VISUALLY.
AND THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION MARGO ASKED BECAUSE WE HAVE AN AMAZON THAT'S BEING BUILT HERE IN THE HAMBURG AREA AND THEY'RE GONNA OPEN UP, BUT WOULD THEY BE ABLE TO APPLY FOR THIS? THEY'RE, THEY'RE RANGING THAT IT'S JUST NOT, NOT WRITTEN IN HIS STONE ANYWHERE FROM 35 TO 40,000 YEAR JOBS.
JUST SO I CAN KNOW, YOU KNOW, WE WORKFORCE, OH, IT'S A WORK.
THAT'S WHY, THAT'S WHY WHEN I SAW THE WORD WORKFORCE, WHICH WAS BROUGHT UP, THAT'S COMP PLAN LAST NIGHT, THEY SAID THAT THEY'RE FINDING THAT A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF PEOPLE WHO LIKE WANT TO LIVE HERE CAN'T AFFORD IT.
'CAUSE THEY CAN'T, 'CAUSE THE HOUSING PRICES ARE GOING UP SO HIGH AND THEN THE RENTS ARE SO HIGH THAT PEOPLE WHO ARE LIKE, YOU KNOW, A SINGLE HEAD OF HOUSEHOLD OR JUST LIKE A PERSON WHO HAS A JOB AND DEGREES BUT CAN'T AFFORD $2,000 A MONTH OR DOWN PAYMENT ON A MORTGAGE.
I WANTED TO UNDERSTAND HOW LIKE THAT WOULD MAYBE FIT INTO HERE AND IT, IT EXACTLY, IT FITS IN IDEALLY, I MEAN, WHAT WE FIND, YOU KNOW, THAT, UM, IT WORKS VERY WELL FOR HOUSEHOLDS EITHER AT THE BEGINNING OR END OF THEIR ECONOMIC LIFESTYLE LIFE CYCLE.
UM, AND IT'S, IT'S JUST SUCCESSFUL MODEL THAT'S THAT'S BEEN OUT THERE FOR,
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YOU KNOW, FOR A NUMBER OF, NUMBER OF YEARS.CLEAR COURT IS WAS A PROJECT THAT'S JUST DOWN THE STREET.
I THINK THAT THAT WAS BUILT, I THINK 2006 TO, UM, THAT, THAT TIMEFRAME.
AND, UM, SO THAT'S AN EXAMPLE OF, OF A, OF AN OLDER TYPE, UH, PROJECT USING, UH, SIMILAR FINANCING.
UM, YOU MENTIONED THAT THERE WAS A MARKET STUDY AND YOU HAD, UH, THERE WAS A NUMBER YOU THREW OUT 3%, 3% CAPTURE RATE.
HOW DO YOU, HOW DO YOU DEFINE THE, WHEN YOU SAY, YOU SAID 3% OF THIS AREA, AND I JUST WANTED TO SEE IF YOU COULD PROVIDE SOME GRANULARITY ON WHAT YOU MEANT WHEN YOU SAID LIKE THE LIMITS OF THE AREA? YEAH, YEAH.
SO THE WAY THAT THEY KIND OF MARKETS ANALYSTS STUDY THESE, UM, THESE TYPES OF PROPERTIES, AND THESE ARE JUST DUE DILIGENCE ITEMS THAT WERE REQUIRED WHEN WE GO THROUGH FINANCE, IT'S VERY KIND OF A STRENUOUS PROCESS IN TERMS OF WILL YOUR PROJECT WORK.
UM, WHAT THEY DO IS THEY TAKE A RADIUS OF, I WANNA SAY IT'S 25 SQUARE MILES OR SO, AND THEY, THEY KIND OF DETERMINE THE PRIMARY MARKET AREA FOR THIS TYPE OF PROJECT BASED ON THE INCOME LEVELS.
AND IT SAYS, OKAY, HOW MANY OF THESE WITHIN THESE 25 MILES, HOW MANY OF THESE HOUSEHOLDS QUALIFY OR WOULD QUALIFY FOR THIS TYPE OF HOUSING? UH, AND THEY KIND OF LOOK AT IT FROM A, A TOTAL, UH, POPULATION BASE.
SO 25 SQUARE MILES? I, I BELIEVE SO.
SO THAT'D BE A FIVE MILE SQUARE BY FIVE MILE SQUARE CENTER ON THE PROPERTY WOULD BE ABOUT TWO AND A HALF MILES AROUND.
SO TO PIGGYBACK ON THAT, YOU'RE SAYING IT'S EVALUATED BY A MEDIUM INCOME.
HOW IS IT, WHAT YOU SAYING, YOU MENTIONED THE WORD INCOME, IS IT BASED ON A MEDIUM HOUSE? JUST A, A HOUSEHOLD INCOME? WE'RE SAYING HYPOTHETICALLY THE MEDIUM INCOME IS $60,000.
THEY BASE THAT WITH A 25 MILES SQUARE MILES OF THAT.
THEY USE CENSUS DATA TO CENSUS DATA FROM HOUSEHOLDS.
ESSENTIALLY WHAT THEY'RE SAYING IS THERE'S IN THIS, IN THIS TWO AND A HALF MILE RADIUS, X AMOUNT OF PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, MAKE THAT AVERAGE INCOME IN THAT 40 TO 50,000 RANGE THAT WE TALKED ABOUT.
AND OF THAT GROUP THAT'S LOOKING FOR HOUSING ONLY 3% OF 'EM, WE WOULD ONLY NEED TO CAPTURE 3% OF 'EM TO HAVE A FULLY LEASE.
SO GO BACK TO WHAT YOU SAID ABOUT THE CENSUS DATA.
IT'S EVERY 10 YEARS, RIGHT? YEAH.
BUT YOU, YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO CENSUS DATA THAT WAS BASED ON THE, IT GETS, IT GETS CONTINUALLY UPDATED AND, AND, AND IT'S THE, IT'S A MARKET MARKET ANALYSIS IS, IS A DISCIPLINE AND, AND A SCIENCE.
SO THAT THERE, THERE ARE WAYS TO PROJECT BASED UPON RECENT CENSUS DATA AS AS WELL AS OTHER INFORMATION, INFORMATION INCOME AND, AND POPULATION.
SO I THINK, YOU KNOW, I THINK THIS, THIS SEEMS LIKE A PRETTY COOL THING THAT YOU GUYS ARE TRYING TO DO.
UM, YOU KNOW, ONE THING THAT WE, WE TALKED, WE'VE TALKED TO A COUPLE PEOPLE DOING PROJECTS IN THIS AREA AND ALONG THIS, UH, UM, KIND OF FEEDING INTO SOUTH PARK, RIGHT.
UM, AND ONE THING I'M, YOU KNOW, BEEN TRYING TO FOCUS ON AND ASK QUESTIONS ABOUT RELATES TO MULTIMODAL TRANSPORTATION.
SO TRYING TO, TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WAYS TO GET PEOPLE WHO ARE GONNA LIVE HERE TOO, WHEREVER THEIR WORK, WHEREVER THEIR WORKPLACE IS, UM, USING DIFFERENT KINDS OF TRANSPORTATION.
SO I WANNA MAKE SURE THAT THEY'RE ABLE TO GET TO BUSES IF THEY'RE ABLE TO GET TO BUSES.
I WANNA MAKE SURE IF THEY WANNA RIDE INTO THE CITY, YOU KNOW, ON THEIR BIKES, THAT THEY'RE ABLE TO DO THAT.
YOU KNOW, WE TALKED ABOUT THAT WHEN WE MET WITH YOU, DIDN'T WE? WELL, THERE, THERE'S THE BUS LINE THAT GOES DOWN HERE, THAT GOES DOWN SOUTH PARK.
UM, YOU KNOW, THE BUS STOPS MAY NOT BE IN THE MOST IDEAL LOCATION, BUT IN OTHER PROJECTS WE'VE WORKED WITH THE, YOU KNOW, TRANSIT AUTHORITIES TO EITHER HAVE BUS STOPS OR RELOCATE THEM.
UM, YOU HAVE SIDEWALKS PROPOSED AT, AT THIS POINT? YOU KNOW, AT THIS POINT WE'RE LOOKING FOR A REZONE TO, TO, TO BE, TO BE HONEST.
WE FULLY ANTICIPATE THAT THE REQUEST WILL COME FROM EITHER THE TOWN BOARD OR THE PLANNING BOARD OR THE COMMUNITY THAT SIDEWALKS BE, BE INCLUDED.
AND IT'S SOMETHING THAT'S, UH, ALTHOUGH IT'S NOT SPECIFICALLY PROPOSED HERE OR SHOWN HERE, IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE FULLY ANTICIPATE.
AND ALONG THE MULTIMODAL TRANSPORTATION LINES, ALL OF OUR PROJECTS THAT WE DO IN THIS ARENA, UM, YOU KNOW, THEY ALL HAVE EXTENSIVE PEDESTRIAN BICYCLE ACCOMMODATIONS AS WELL AS, UH, SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF EV STATIONS EV CHARGING STATION.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? UM, JUST SO YOU'RE AWARE, UM, I DID INITIATE THE SECRET COORDINATED REVIEW IN APRIL AT
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THE TOM WARD'S, UH, DIRECTION.30 DAYS AREN'T UP YET, BUT JUST SO YOU KNOW, WE, THERE'S NO, NO OTHER QUESTIONS.
UM, WOULD YOU LIKE TO COME BACK AND WE'LL TABLE THIS TO, UM, MAY 18TH? NO, OUR MAY 4TH IS FALL, RIGHT? SO IT'S GOTTA BE THE 18TH.
SO I WOULD SAY, IS THERE ANY SUPPLEMENTAL INFORMATION THAT THE BOARD WOULD LIKE US TO PROVIDE IN THE INTERIM? YEAH, IF, IF YOU CAN, YOU KNOW, YOUR, YOUR SQUARE MILEAGE, IF YOU COULD MAP THAT OUT FOR ME BECAUSE I, FOR THE MARKET SIDE? YEAH.
BECAUSE I, I HAVE SOME DOUBTS.
OR MAYBE HOW, HOW THEY ARRIVED AT THE, HOW DO THEY DO THE WE WE CAN DO THAT.
THE, THE, THE, WE MAY HAVE A POTENTIAL CONTACT WITH, UH, CONFLICT WAS MAY 18TH.
A STATEWIDE, A STATEWIDE HOUSING CONFERENCE IN IN OKAY.
SO PERHAPS THE JUNE 1ST JUNE MEETING.
ON TABLE TO THE FIRST MEETING.
WE TABLE TILL THE FIRST MEETING IN JUNE.
THIS IS GONNA BE THE OTHER ONE.
UM, NUMBER TWO ON THE WORKSHOP TODAY IS, UH, DEBORAH KKI REQUESTING REZONING OF PROPERTY LOCATED AT 6 5 1 9 ELS ROAD FROM C TWO TO RA.
SO I CAN EXPLAIN TO THESE AS, YOU KNOW, THESE ARE THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE ACROSS THE STREET FROM THE PROPOSED DOLLAR GENERAL HEALTH.
EVERYBODY UP AND DOWN PELTZ ROAD IS ZONED C TWO FOR SOME UNKNOWN REASON.
NO ONE KNOWS HOW IT GOT THAT WAY.
AND THE, THEY WOULD LIKE TO BE ZONED RA, WHICH IS WHAT THE SURROUNDING PROPERTIES ARE.
THEY DON'T WANNA BE A RESIDENTIAL HOME IN A C2 DISTRICT, BECAUSE TO ME, PRETTY RIGHT.
AND THEN KIM JABLONSKY, YOU'RE GONNA SEE IN TWO WEEKS ASKING THE SAME THING AND SHE LIVES NEXT DOOR TO THAT PROPERTY.
SO IT'S REALLY, THEY HAVE BEEN ADVISED BY THE BOARD PREVIOUSLY TO DO THIS.
THIS ISN'T ANYTHING NEW TO US.
RIGHT? THIS WAS BEFORE US A FEW TIMES.
SO, MR. CHAIRMAN, I'LL MAKE A MOTION.
WE RECOMMENDED THE TOWN BOARD THAT THEY APPROVE THE REZONING FROM C TWO TO RA FOR DEBORAH KAVINSKY.
WELL, THIS IS ALSO, DON'T FORGET YOUR HONOR, WORK SESSION RIGHT NOW.
OH, WELL IF IT WASN'T, THIS IS WHAT WE'D DO.
SO YOU WOULD NEED TO TABLE IT TO YOUR NEXT MEETING AND THEN DO IT THEN.
WELL, IF YOU CAN, I DON'T KNOW.
I KNOW THERE'S NEW RULES FOR THE, THE NEXT MEETING.
NO, I WOULD THINK WE COULD SNEAK THIS IN.
I THINK WE CAN DO THAT AT THE NEXT MEETING.
SO THE RECOMMENDATION WOULD BE TO COME TO OUR NEXT MEETING.
MAY 4TH FOR THE RECOMMENDATION.
I KNOW BILL TOLD US DON'T ADD ANY.
YEAH, BUT THE THING IS IS BILL, I KNOW BILL, YOU KNOW, THEY'VE BEEN UNDER A LOT OF, A LOT OF PRESSURE AND I DON'T THINK IT'S ONLY GONNA TAKE TOO, I DON'T THINK HERE.
CAN I ASK YOU A QUESTION? SURE.
WHEN, SO IF THAT YOU MAKE THE RECOMMENDATION AT THE NEXT MEETING TO GO TO THE TOWN BOARD, DOES THAT MEAN THAT THE TOWN BOARD MEETING IS GONNA GET PUSHED TO JULY? IS THAT NO, NO.
I'M JUST WONDERING ABOUT WELL, THEY CAN'T BY, THEY CAN'T, THEY CAN'T DO ANYTHING TONIGHT.
SO IF THEY DO IT MAY 4TH, THEN THE VERY NEXT TOWN BOARD MEETING AFTER THAT, I'LL PUT IT ON THAT AGENDA.
THEY WILL SET A PUBLIC HEARING AND THEN HAVE A PUBLIC HEARING TWO WEEKS LATER.
SO YOU PROBABLY GOT A PUBLIC HEARING THE END OF MAY, EARLY JUNE.
YOU'LL PROBABLY BE ON THE SAME.
OKAY, DOCTOR, WE CAN WORK WITH THAT.
THE FOLLOWING BOARD MEETING WOULD BE, SO, OKAY, SO, OKAY.
[00:40:04]
THAT S OUR WORK SESSION.UM, I WOULD JUST MAKE SURE YOU COME IN WITH JUST SOME OUTLINE REASONING FOR THE REZONING, JUST SO WE HAVE A CLEAR RECORD.
JUST BECAUSE DOLLAR GENERAL STILL IS BEFORE US.
SO JUST THINK OF SOME REASONING YOU WANT USE SUPPORT OF YOUR RECOMMENDATION.
I WOULD SAY IN THIS SITUATION, I WOULD INCLUDE IT FOR OTHER NOW FOR RECOMMENDATION.
WE AREN'T EVEN, I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE YOU KNOW WHAT, YOU KNOW WHAT I'M SAYING? BECAUSE THE TOWN'S GONNA DO WHAT THEY WANNA DO.
I I UNDERSTAND THAT, BUT I'M SAYING BECAUSE WE STILL HAVE DOLLAR, WE DON'T THINK WE'VE GOTTA GO THROUGH ALL THAT JUST FOR A RECOMMENDATION.
MY ADVICE WOULD BE BECAUSE WE STILL HAVE DOLLAR GENERAL WITH A POTENTIAL LAWSUIT IN THE MAKING.
I WOULD MAKE SURE WE'RE WELL-ROUNDED.
WELL, EVEN IF WE WERE TO SELL THE HOUSE, IT IS, IT WAS A C2 BE ABLE TO GET A BANK LOAN.
AND THEN I DID KICKING YOUR BUTT, WHICH I LEMME, 40 DAYS.
I PLED TOGI TO THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, THE REPUBLIC WHICH EXPANDS OUR NATION UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE, WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL.
WELL, WELCOME TO THE TOWN BOARD'S REGULAR MEETING.
UM, WE HAVE A REGULAR BUSINESS NUMBER ONE ON THE AGENDAS OF PUBLIC HEARING FOR 7:00 PM UH, FOR FRANCIS OSER REQUESTING PRELIMINARY PLAT APPROVAL OF A THREE LOT SUBDIVISION TO BE LOCATED AT 4 7 1 6 MCKINLEY PARKWAY.
NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN THAT THE TOWN OF HAMBURG PLANNING BOARD WILL CONDUCT A PUBLIC HEARING ON A THREE LOT SUBDIVISION PROPOSED BY FRANCIS WORCESTER.
TO BE LOCATED AT 4 7 1 16 MCKINLEY PARKWAY.
THE PUBLIC HEARING WILL BE HELD APRIL 20TH, 2022 AT 7:00 PM AND ROOM SEVEN B AT TOWN OF HAMBURG.
OKAY, WELL, ANYBODY HERE, UH, FOR THE PUBLIC HEARING WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK ON BEHALF OF THIS, UH, PROJECT? JUST ME.
AS LONG AS YOU'RE, UNLESS YOU'RE OPPOSED.
OH NO, I'M NOT
ANYBODY WANNA SPEAK HERE ON THIS PROJECT? ON THE THIRD AND FINAL TIME? WOULD ANYBODY HERE TO SPEAK ON THIS PROJECT SHALL MAKE MOTION TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING? I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING.
HE DOESN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO SAY.
WE HAVE SOME, WE HAVE SOME RESOLUTION.
UM, ANYBODY ON THE BOARD LIKE TO READ THE RESOLUTION? I READ IT IN ACCORDANCE WITH, IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE NEW YORK STATE SEEKER LAW.
THE TOWN OF HAMBURG PLANNING BOARD HAS REVIEWED THE PRELAW SUBDIVISION PROPOSED BY FRANCIS OSER TO BE LOCATED AT 4 7 1 6 MCKINLEY PARKWAY.
BASED ON THE PRELIMINARY PLAT REVIEW OF THE SUBMITTED MATERIALS AND INPUT FROM OTHER DEPARTMENTS, PLANNING BOARD IS DETERMINED THAT THE PROPOSED SUBDIVISION IS NOT ANTICIPATED TO RESULT IN ANY SIGNIFICANT ADVERSE ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT.
AND THAT A NEGATIVE DECLARATION IS HEREBY ISSUE.
HAMBURG PLANNING BOARD HEREBY GRANT, HOLD ON ONE SECOND.
UM, SOMEBODY NEEDS TO SECOND THAT MOTION.
THEN YOU CAN DO OTHER MOTION TO APPROVE.
THE HAMBURG PLANNING BOARD HEREBY GRANTS PRELIMINARY PLAT APPROVAL FOR THE FRANCIS OSSER THREE LOT SUBDIVISION WITH THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS.
[00:45:01]
UPON THE ENGINEERING DEPARTMENT COMMENT LETTER DATED APRIL 15TH, 2022.SECOND, THE INSTALLATION OF SIDEWALKS IS WAIVED AS THERE ARE NO SIDEWALKS IN THE AREA.
THIRD, THE FILING OF A MAP COVER IS WAIVED.
FOURTH, RECREATION FEES IN LIEU OF LAND WILL BE REQUIRED.
FIFTH, NO ADDITIONAL TREES WILL BE REMOVED FROM THE PROPERTY.
THANK YOU FOR NUMBER TWO ON THE REGULAR SESSION.
UH, PUBLIC HEARING SEVEN HOMES AND DEVELOPMENT REQUESTING SITE PLAN.
APPROVAL OF A PROPOSED COMMERCIAL EDITION TO BE LOCATED AT 5 6 7 3 MCKINLEY MARKET.
ANYBODY HERE? UH, LIKE TO SPEAK ON THIS, UH, THIS DEVELOPMENT THE SECOND TIME? DOES ANYBODY HERE LIKE TO SPEAK ON THIS DEVELOPMENT ON OLD DEVELOPMENT? THIRD AND FINAL REQUEST ON THE OAKFIELD DEVELOPMENT? DOES ANYBODY WANNA SPEAK ON MOTION MADE BY MR. CHAPMAN? SECOND.
HOME HOMES AND DEVELOPMENT APPROVAL RESOLUTION APRIL 20TH, 2000, 20,022.
IN ACCORDANCE WITH NEW YORK STATE SECRET, WHILE THE TOWN OF HAM PLANNING BOARD HAS REVIEWED THE O HOME AND DEVELOPMENT PROJECT, WHICH INVOLVES THE CONSTRUCTION OF AN ADDITION TO THE EXISTING BUILDING LOCATED AT 5 6 7 3 MCKINLEY PARKWAY.
AND THEY HELD THE REQUIRED PUBLIC HEARING ON APRIL 20TH, 2022.
THE PROJECT MEETS THE CRITERIA ESTABLISHED IN THE SEEKER LAW AS A TYPE TWO ACTION UNDER SECTION 6 1, 7 0.5 C SEVEN, AND THEREFORE DOES NOT REQUIRE A COMPLETION OF THE SECRET PROCESS.
MOTION TO GRANT, CONDITIONAL SITE PLAN APPROVAL WITH THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS.
APPROVAL IS CONDITION CONTINGENT UPON THE ENGINEERING DEPARTMENT COMMENT LETTER DATED APRIL 15TH, 2022.
ANY NEW LIGHTING WILL BE DARK SKY COMPLIANT.
THE INSTALLATION OF SIDEWALKS IS WAIVED AS THERE ARE NO SIDEWALKS IN THE AREA.
MAKE THE MOTION SECOND BY DOUG.
UH, YOU CAN'T, YOU STILL CAN'T APPROVE THE MARCH 16TH MEETING BECAUSE THE FOUR PEOPLE WHO WERE THERE ARE NOT HERE.
THE, YOU NEED THE FOUR PEOPLE WHO WERE THERE AND
BUT YOU COULD APPROVE, I MEAN, YOU COULD APPROVE IT.
I'LL, I'LL MAKE THE MOTION TO APPROVE.
DOUG, MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE.
WERE NO, HUH? I ACTUALLY DON'T, I DON'T THINK YOU WERE THERE.
THAT WAS NO, WAIT, I WASN'T AT THE LAST MEETING.
HE CAN'T MAKE THE, I CAN'T MAKE A CAN'T WAIT A MINUTE.
SO APRIL, I WASN'T HERE ON APRIL 6TH.
I THINK YOU WERE, YOU WERE HERE.
I THINK YOU, YOU MISSED MARCH 16TH.
IS THAT THE ONE, IS THAT THE ONE I MISSED? THAT'S, THAT'S ONE YOU APPEAR ON.
I'LL JUST SAY YOU WEREN'T, YOU WEREN'T HERE.
I'LL JUST SAY THAT YOU, UM, ABSTAINED.
THESE WILL BE THE EASIEST MINUTES.
[00:50:02]
DONE.