* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. [00:11:05] ALL [00:11:05] RIGHT, [00:11:05] SO WE'RE GONNA GET STARTED ON OUR WORK SESSION. FIRST ITEM IS GOLF CARTS UNLIMITED REQUEST AND SITE PLAN APPROVAL, AND A SPECIAL USE PERMIT FOR 2000 SQUARE FOOT. NEW BUILDING IN ADDITION TO THE EXISTING BUILDING. AND A ROOF EXTENSION, COVERED PARKING AT 2 3 3 0 LAKEVIEW ROAD. ANYBODY HERE FROM THAT? THERE WAS SOMEBODY IN THE PARKING LOT. OH, HERE. I THOUGHT THERE WAS, DOES ANYBODY NEED A COPY OF MY MEMO? I DON'T HAVE ONE FOR EVERYBODY. I KNOW SOME OF YOU PRINTED IT OUT. I MEAN, MY QUESTION FOR THEM IS HOW DOES THIS, I MEAN, THEY'RE NOT HERE, BUT WE'LL NEED TO FOLLOW UP AND UNDERSTAND HOW WHATEVER ELSE THEY DID BEFORE. OH, I SEE. YEAH. MY ONLY QUESTION WAS, INSTEAD OF THAT WITH GOLF CARTS, UNLIMIT, I WAS READING A LOT OF THE MATERIALS AND I GOT A LITTLE NERVOUS WHEN THEY SAID, FIRST OF ALL, THEY NEED AN AIR AIR PERMIT, WHICH THEY'RE GONNA HAVE TO GET BEFORE THEY GET A BUILDING PERMIT. UM, BUT THEY ALLUDED TO THE FACT THAT THEY'RE GONNA BE PAINTING OTHER THINGS. DID YOU CATCH THAT IN THEIR THING? BECAUSE THEY SAID THEY, TO HAVE THIS BIG EXPENSIVE PAINT PAPER, THEY CAN'T JUST DO THEIR OWN, OWN, UH, THINGS. THEY HAVE TO PAINT OTHER THINGS. THEY CANNOT PAINT CARS BECAUSE CARS WOULD BE, REQUIRE A SPECIAL USE PERMIT 'CAUSE IT WOULD BE CONSIDERED A AUTOMOTIVE REPAIR. SO I JUST GOTTA TELL THEM THAT IT CANNOT BE CARS. THEY CANNOT PAINT CARS. THEY CAN PAINT THEIR, THEIR, UM, GOLF CARTS. THEY CAN PAINT OTHER THINGS AND WHATEVER. JUST CANNOT BE CARS. IT CANNOT BE MOTOR VEHICLES BECAUSE PAINT SHOPS, AS YOU KNOW, WE'VE APPROVED OTHER PAINT SHOPS. THOSE TURN INTO THOSE AUTOMATICALLY BECOME AN AUTOMOTIVE USE AND REQUIRE A SPECIAL USE PERMIT. AND ALL THOSE THINGS BE AUTOMOBILE. ARE YOU GOLF CART? NO. THERE'S REPORT. THEY OH, ARE MATERIAL. THAT'S RIGHT. YOU WANNA GOLF CART? I WOULD NOT RIGHT. THE PAINTING, IT SHOWED THE PAINT GOING ON AUTOMOBILE. I KNOW. THAT'S WHAT I'M WORRIED ABOUT. I'M WORRIED ABOUT IT. SO WE DO HAVE TO EXPRESS TO THEM THAT IF THEY WANT TO PAINT VEHICLES, THEY'RE GONNA HAVE TO APPLY FOR A SPECIAL USE PERMIT. THERE'S A WHOLE DIFFERENT SET OF CRITERIA. IF THEY WANT TO JUST DO GOLF CARTS AND OTHER PIECES OF EQUIPMENT, THAT IS FINE UNDER THIS ZONE. SO WE DO HAVE TO GET, WE DO HAVE TO GET THAT KIND OF RESOLVED. OKAY. UM, YEAH, BECAUSE I SAW THAT TOO AND I SAW THE, THAT THEY WERE P OTHER THINGS. YEAH. SO, UH, THOSE ARE THE ONLY QUESTIONS I HAVE ON THAT. AS YOU SAW, IT'S A TYPE TWO ACTION UNDER SEEKER. I DID ASK, UH, WELL, UH, SARAH PULLED A FILE AND WHATEVER WE'RE, IF YOU WANNA SEE THE PREVIOUS APPROVAL, YOU CAN SEE THE PREVIOUS APPROVAL AND MAKE SURE, 'CAUSE IF YOU GO ON GOOGLE EARTH, IT STILL SHOWS THE SLIGHT UNDEVELOPED . SO THEY DID MAKE THE CHANGES FROM THE PREVIOUS APPROVAL. IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE TELLING US? OR I, I JUST WANNA CHECK THAT. I DON'T THINK SO. OH, WE WANNA CHECK THAT. OKAY. I DON'T THINK SO. THERE'S NO WAY I CAN TELL. 'CAUSE GOOGLE, UNLESS I DRIVE OUT THERE WITH THE PLANS AND LOOK AT IT AND SAY, OKAY, IS THIS WHAT WE'VE APPROVED BEFORE? AND THAT WAS NOVEMBER, 2020 I THINK ISH. UM, WE JUST TABLING THAT TO THE NEXT WORK SESSION. WELL, WE COULD, WE CAN TABLE IT GENERALLY. 'CAUSE THEY'RE NOT HERE. WE CAN TABLE IT TO THE 18TH. I MEAN, I WOULD JUST, I COULD, ON THE WORK SESSION, WE COULD SCHEDULE, I'M HERE. SHE HAS AN ADVERTISED AS SPECIAL NEWS PERMIT. SO THEY MUST BE ACKNOWLEDGING THAT THEY'RE DOING A CAR. I DID A SITE VISIT, IF THAT MEANS ANYTHING. I MEAN, IT'S JUST, I THINK THEY EXPLAIN TO US WHAT THEY'RE GONNA DO BEFORE WE HAVE A PUBLIC HEARING IN CASE THEY NEED TO DO A SPECIAL NEWS. IT IT, IT SAYS HERE SPECIAL, ESPECIALLY TERMS. SO THEY MUST, THEY MUST ACKNOWLEDGE THAT I, I DIDN'T SHARE WITH, THEY SAID TO ME, DID THEY MAKE THE CHANGES FROM THE LAST TIME THEY WERE HERE? YOU KNOW, I'M NOT SURE. ALRIGHT. I JUST, I WAS JUST LOOKING WHAT THIS NEW, RIGHT, SO LAPTOP DRIVER, , WE HERE, I MEAN THE ONLY THING WE DO HERE IS I KNOW THAT [00:15:01] SCHEDULE A PUBLIC HEARING, IT WOULD BE A PUBLIC HEARING FOR SITE PLAN AND SPECIAL USE PERMIT. YOU FEEL COMFORTABLE DOING THAT WITHOUT THEM HERE TO EXPLAIN. OKAY. ALREADY SAID NO. WHAT'S THAT? I WOULD RATHER THEM COME HERE AND EXPLAIN WHAT THEY'RE GONNA DO AND WHAT THEY NEED. I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW IF OTHER PEOPLE LEFT. NO, I'D RATHER DO THAT TOO. ALL THESE PICTURES ARE CARS THEY'RE NOT GONNA USE ANYMORE. KAI, I HAD A CONVERSATION I SHARED, BUT THEY DID. YEAH, THAT WOULD HELPFUL. THEY DID INDICATE CARS WERE ON SUBJECT MATTER OF PAINTING. ALRIGHT. SO SHE WAS VERY UPFRONT WITH ME THAT THEY'RE GONNA PAY. OKAY. AND , THAT'S WHY IN THE BACK CLOSURE. AND THAT'S, I I WILL HAVE TO CHECK. AND IF SARAH HAS CHECKED, THERE ARE A LOT OF CRITERIA FOR AUTOMOTIVE REPAIR, WHICH IS WHAT THIS FACILITY WILL BE CALLED. THEN THERE'S, IF YOU GO TO THE SPECIAL USE PERMIT SECTION, THERE'S A WHOLE BUNCH OF CRITERIA FOR, FOR SPECIAL USE PERMIT FOR FOR CAR REPAIR. SO WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY MEET ALL THOSE REQUIREMENTS OF THAT'S THAT'S WHAT, UH, MELISSA, HER NAME WAS. OKAY. THAT'S WHAT SHE INDICATED EXACTLY WHAT YOU SAID. ALL RIGHT. WE WANT TABLE OR YOU WANT TABLE IT. THE QUESTION IS TO WHEN WE CAN JUST TABLE IT GENERALLY IF THAT'S SO WHEN THEY'RE AVAILABLE, RIGHT. USUALLY THEY DON'T COME BACK IN THE WORK SESSION THOUGH. WE'LL COME BACK AT THE REGULAR MEETING. I WOULD PUT 'EM ON THE WORK SESSION 'CAUSE THEY WEREN'T HERE. WE'VE DONE THAT BEFORE. ALRIGHT THEN. SO THEN I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO TABLE GOLF CARTS UNLIMITED FOR A FUTURE WORK SESSION. I SECOND MOTION BY MR. CLARK. SECOND BY MR. CHAPMAN. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. AYE. MOTION CARRIED. SOMEONE COMES IN, THEY MAY HAVE MISUNDERSTOOD. THEY MAY COME AT SEVEN IF YOU WANNA HEAR. THEY COME AT SEVEN. WELL, WE'LL SEE HOW WE LOOK AT SEVEN . UM, OKAY. I'LL DEAL WITH THAT A SECOND. NEXT ITEM ON THE AGENDA IS CLI POOL'S REQUESTING SKETCH PLAN, DIRECTION OF A PROPOSAL TO CONSTRUCT A NEW 6,000 SQUARE FOOT WAREHOUSE AT 4 9 5 3 CAMP ROAD CAMERA. IS THAT THE CAMERA? YES. DO YOU PUT TOWARDS FACEBOOK ON THE PHONE? MAKE SURE, CHECK OUT. VERY, VERY. IT SHOULD BE ON BECAUSE NO, NO. I WAS TOO EARLY. YEAH. YEAH. THE NEXT ONE SARAH NEEDS SO SAYS PROBABLY ABOUT CARDS. WANT ME TO CALL? IT'S NO, WE'LL GET TAKES A LITTLE BIT. YEAH, SHE'S DEFINITELY ON FACEBOOK. WE'LL JUST TAKE CARE OF THAT. I MEAN, WE SHOULD JUST KEEP MOVING, RIGHT? YEAH. WE'VE GOT COLLEAGUES, SO, OKAY, LET'S GO FOR IT. YEAH. ALRIGHT. UM, FOR THE RECORD, CHRIS WOOD WITH CARWOOD DESIGN, WE'RE THE ENGINEERS FOR THE PROJECT. WE'RE PROPOSING IS A 6,000 SQUARE FOOT WAREHOUSE BUILDING ON THE EXISTING CO'S DEVELOPMENT SITE. UM, IT'D BE LOCATED TO THE REAR OF THE EXISTING WAREHOUSE BUILDING. UH, IT'S NOT ANTICIPATED THERE'S GONNA BE ANY BATHROOMS OR ANYTHING IN HERE. IT'D BE A COLD STORAGE TYPE WAREHOUSE BUILDING ONE STORY. UM, IT'LL HAVE SOME OVERHEAD DOORS IN THE FRONT ACCESSIBLE FROM THE EXISTING PARKING LOT. UM, UTILITIES WILL BE PRETTY SIMPLE. NO WATER, NO SEWER. THERE'S A CATCH BASIN AT THE CORNER OF THE BUILDING HERE. WE'LL TIE OUR ROOF LEADERS INTO THAT. UM, IT'S A VERY MINIMAL INCREASE IN IMPERVIOUS. I'M NOT SEEING, IT'S PROBABLY GONNA AFFECT THE STORM WATER TOO MUCH. UH, WE DO MEET ALL THE SETBACKS. UH, I DIDN'T HAND OUT THE STUFF. I BROUGHT A BETTER IDEA CORNER. SO IT'S GONNA GO ON THIS EXISTING GRASS AREA, NOT ON THE EXISTING TIER AND PREVIOUS PART, RIGHT. OR, UH, IT'S GONNA GO ON EXISTING GRASS AREA IN THE BACK. THAT WHAT? THE WESTERN PARKING LOT. I ALSO SITE VISIT TOO. AND I DID, CAN YOU EVEN SEE IT FROM THE, IT'S, IT'S A COUPLE FOOTBALL FIELDS AWAY FROM THE ROAD. IT'S GONNA BE BEHIND, IT'LL BE BEHIND THEIR PLAZA BUILDING IN THE FRONT, WHICH IS PRETTY TALL. YEAH. AND THEN THEIR OFFICE BUILDING AND THEIR OTHER WAREHOUSE IN THE BACK. THE, THE SECOND PAGE I HANDED OUT IS THE LANDSCAPE PLAN FROM THE LAST GO AROUND. UH, THERE'S A PRETTY GOOD, UH, ROW OF ESTABLISHED PINE TREES BEHIND WHERE THE BUILDING'S GONNA GO BETWEEN US AND THE WESTERN PARKING LOT. NOT THAT, UH, YOU KNOW, PARKED CARS ARE GONNA CARE WHAT THIS LOOKS LIKE, BUT IT DOES SCREEN IT FROM THE, AND THEN IT'LL ALSO SCREEN IT FROM THE SIDE STREET TO THE SOUTH. UM, ANYBODY HAS ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? I CAN ANSWER EM. IF NOT. UM, [00:20:01] IF I DID, CHRIS, I WENT TO, I TALKED TO SOMEBODY AT GENTLEMAN BY THE NAME OF ERIC. YES. AND HE WALKED ME BACK THERE. THEY OWN ALL THE WAY ERIC TO WEST CURB. YEAH, THEY OWN RIGHT. THEY OWN BASICALLY A WEST WESTERN'S CURB LINE IS BASICALLY RIGHT ON THE LOT. AND THEY ALSO, THEY ALSO TOLD ME THEY HAVE LIKE 2020 SOME, LIKE YOU SAID, PINE TREES. IT DOES, IT COVERS THE, THE MESS. RIGHT. THERE WAS ONE THAT WAS DYING THAT HE SAID HE WOULD REPLACE. SO I JUST WANTED TO THROW THAT OUT THERE. OKAY. DYING TREE. BUT, UM, YOU SAID YOU EXACTLY WHAT YOU SAID, IT'S A COLD STORAGE, BUT YOU ALSO SAID THERE WILL BE NO WATER OR UTILITIES OR ANYTHING DRAWN TO THIS. WELL, IT'LL BE ELECTRIC. UM, IT'S GONNA BE COLD STORAGE, SO IT'S NOT GONNA BE OCCUPIED. THERE WON'T BE A BATHROOM OR ANYTHING IN IT. HOW ARE THEY GONNA CONNECT THE ELECTRIC OVER? IS IT GONNA BE LIKE A VERY COLLECTION LINE OR? YEAH, IT'LL BE CONNECTED TO THE EXISTING WAREHOUSE BUILDING ABOVE GROUND OR UNDERGROUND? UNDERGROUND. SO THE QUESTION WE WERE TALKING ABOUT TODAY IS OBVIOUSLY THE, OBVIOUSLY, BUT WAS THERE, THERE WAS A PLAN APPROVED. WE PULL OUT THE OLD FILES. THERE WAS A 2015 PLAN, DIDN'T EVEN GET A PLAN APPROVED BETWEEN NOW AND THEN BECAUSE THE 2015 PLAN STILL HAD, DIDN'T HAVE THIS BIG PARKING AREA UP FRONT. I KNOW THAT GOT APPROVED YEARS AGO. WERE YOU INVOLVED IN THAT? I MEAN THIS ON THE OLD PLAN SHOWED THIS AS BEING WHERE THE POOL DISPLAY IS. YEAH. THIS, THIS PLAN IS THE APPROVED PLAN. WHAT'S THAT? THIS, THIS PLAN THAT I DO YOU KNOW THE DATE OF IT? BECAUSE WE MUST HAVE, THERE MUST BE A FILE AFTER THIS ONE. 7 30 15. WHAT IS IT? 7 30 15? I DON'T THINK SO, BECAUSE THE PLAN FROM 7 30 15 IS NOT THAT WELL HERE. NINE. THIS IS THE OLD LANDSCAPE PLAN. THIS IS 9 15 17. NINE 15. SO THERE MUST BE ANOTHER FILE FROM 2017. YEAH, WE JUST, AND I'M SURE YOU KNOW THE ANSWER. I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT THAT PLAN WAS PUT IN, IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE APPROVED PLAN. I ASSUME IT WAS. YEAH, BECAUSE IF YOU LOOK AT THE, IF YOU COMPARE THE AERIAL TO THIS PLAN, IT'S BASICALLY EXACTLY THE SAME, RIGHT? YEAH. AND THIS IS A 2021 AREA, RIGHT? BECAUSE THE 2015 PLAN DOES NOT SHOWED THIS THIS WAY AT ALL. BUT IT STILL HAS THE APPROVAL SUBSEQUENT TO THAT. YEAH. IS THE OLD LANDSCAPE. THERE IS ALL THE REVISIONS LISTED ON THERE. IT STARTED IN 15 AND WENT ALL THE WAY TO 17,015. IT STILL SHOWED ALL THE POOLS AND STUFF OUT FRONT. NOT THIS BIG PARKING AREA. SO THIS THIS IS THOUSAND 15. OH, THAT WAS JUST TO BUILD THE, THAT WAS THAT BUILD THESE THINGS RIGHT. BUILD THE BACK. RIGHT. SO THERE MUST HAVE BEEN A A ONE THAT CAME OUT. OH YEAH. THAT'S FIND, YEAH. YOU, THAT'S THE ACCESS TO THAT. AN EXISTING ROAD. THEY HAVEN'T SEEN EXISTING ROAD. WELL IT'LL COME, THERE'S A PROPOSED ROAD THAT GOES UP THERE. OH, THIRD DRIVEWAY. SO THERE, THERE'S NOTHING THERE NOW. NO. IT'LL COME UP WITH THE EDGE OF THE EXISTING PARKING STONE PARKING AREA. RIGHT. AND AGAIN, IT'S JUST, IT'S JUST FOR EMPLOYEES. IT'S NOT, UH, THERE WON'T BE ANY CUSTOMERS, WHATEVER THEY NEED BACK AND FORTH. RIGHT. SO WHAT ARE THEY STORING IN THERE? UH, EXISTING WAREHOUSE THEY HAVE NOW IS NOT BIG ENOUGH. IT'S BASICALLY POOL INSTALLATION MATERIALS. SO IS THERE GONNA BE ANY POOL CHEMICALS? NOT, NOT ANYTHING THAT THEY DON'T CURRENTLY STORE NOW. I THINK MOST OF THEIR POOL CHEMICALS THEY STORE IN THIS WAREHOUSE BUILDING CAN'T BE FLAMMABLE CHEMICALS FLAMMABLE OR EXPLOSIVE. RIGHT. FLA, ANY, ANY RETAIL CHEMICALS THEY, THEY STORE IN THEIR OFFICE IN THEIR, AND I'M ASSUMING THEY DON'T BACKLOG EXCESS OF FULL FILTERS AND STUFF. FLOORING AND SOME OF THAT LIKE CONCENTRATED STUFF? YEAH, THEY HAVE A PRETTY GOOD STOCKPILE IN THEIR RETAIL STORE. I DON'T, I DON'T THINK THEY HAVE ANY OLD, THEY PROBABLY WOULDN'T. COLD STORAGE THAT I'M, NO, I WOULDN'T THINK SO. YOU CONFIRM THERE'S NOTHING HIGHLY FLAMMABLE OR EXPLOSIVE. OH, YEP. I'LL CONFIRM WE HAVE A LIST OF WHAT WE CONSIDER IN OUR TOWN CODE. I DON'T THINK WE DO, BUT I CAN DOUBLE CHECK. IT'S WHAT'S ON THE MSDS SHEETS. I THINK THERE'S ACTUALLY OSHA, CORRECT ME IF I GET THIS WRONG, BUT THE OSHA, THERE'S LIKE THE TRIANGLE THAT GOES ON THE OSHA OSHA STANDARDS AND THEY RENT THE STUFF ASKING THE RIGHT QUESTION. BECAUSE IN OUR SITE PLAN REVIEW PROCESS, THANK YOU , THEY HA THEY HAVE TO IDENTIFY, IT'S THE FIRE DEPARTMENT. SO IT'S NOT THAT WE RESTRICT IT. THE FIRE DEPARTMENT WANTS TO KNOW WHAT'S STORED IN THE BUILDING AND WHATEVER. IN CASE THERE'S ANY HAZARDOUS MATERIALS. OBVIOUSLY THEY STORE CHLORINE. THE, THEY WOULD REALLY WANNA KNOW IF THERE'S CHLORINE STORED IN THAT BUILDING. THEY JUST KEEP IT FOR THE, THERE WILL BE OTHER, BUT IT'S MOSTLY PARTS THEY TOLD ME ON A WALK. IT'S MOSTLY PARTS OR, OR EQUIPMENT THAT THEY'RE JUST GONNA STORE INTO THIS STORAGE AREA. THEY NEED SPACE. OH, THEY NEED TO, WE NEED TO GET A FULL LISTING THING. WE JUST NEED TO GET THE FIRE DEPARTMENT DEPARTMENT'S ON [00:25:01] THE SITE PLAN APPLICATION FORM THAT WHAT MATERIALS ARE BEING STORED IN THE BUILDING. YEP. OKAY. SORRY. WHAT DO WE WANNA DO? THIS ONE? I, I TOLD SARAH WE'D LIKE TO COME BACK IN TWO MEETINGS. NOT NOT THE NEXT TWO MEETING, TWO MEETINGS, THE MEETING AFTER. AND IF EVERYTHING THIS WAS LISTED AS A SKETCH PLAN, YOU'RE GONNA THEN FINALIZE IT, MAKE IT A FULL SITE PLAN. YOU KNOW WHAT JUNE 1ST IS WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING AT? YEAH, THE FIRST MEETING IN JUNE. AND THEN AT THAT MEETING, IF WE COULD POTENTIALLY SET THE PUBLIC HEARING FOR THE SECOND MEETING IN JUNE. SO WHATEVER THE DEADLINE DATE IS. THANK YOU. MAY TO GET A FULL SITE PLAN APPLICATION TO BE OF THAT JUNE MEETING. YEP. SHE TEXT ME. SHE KNOWS TURN ON THE, JUST NOW. NOW. ALRIGHT. UM, OKAY, SO SINCE WE DON'T HAVE THE FINAL SKETCH PLAN, WE'RE NOT GONNA SCHEDULE A PUBLIC HEARING. WE'RE JUST GONNA ADJOURN THIS TO JUNE 1ST MEETING OF JUNE. FIRST MEETING OF JUNE. THAT'S JUNE 1ST, YES. OKAY. SO I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO TABLE COLIN POOLS TO JUNE 1ST, SECOND JUNE 1ST, OR THE MIDDLE OF JUNE. JUNE, JUNE, JUNE 1ST FOR THE FIRST MEETING. AND IF YOU COULD SET THE PUBLIC HEARING THERE. AND THEN WE HAVE THE PUBLIC HEARING THE NEXT, AND THAT'S ALL KEVIN, IN THE FACT THAT YOU THIS COMPLETE SITE PLAN APPLICATION, CORRECT? RIGHT. AND THIS IS TYPE TWO. YEP. NO, IT'S, IT'S CARDS. DO WE NEED TO SEND OUT A CONSOLIDATE TO WELL, I WAS GONNA ASK THAT AS ANOTHER ACTION. YOU CAN DO A COORDINATOR REVIEW. I TYPICALLY RECOMMEND THOSE IF THERE ARE OTHER APPROVALS NECESSARY. BUT I I DON'T THINK YOU HAVE ANY OTHER REGULATORY APPROVALS. NO. RIGHT. NO WATER, NO SEWER DT, NO WATER, NO SEWER, NO NO D, NO DC PERMIT. NO, NOTHING. SO IT SHOULD BE, YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO A COORDINATOR. I DON'T SEE THAT YOU WOULD GET MUCH IN THE WAY OF ANY INPUT FROM ANY OTHER AGENCY SINCE THERE ARE NO OTHER REGULATORY APPROVALS BECAUSE THIS SITE HAD BEEN PREVIOUSLY REVIEWED. YOU COULD PULL US IF THERE WERE ANY CONCERNS ABOUT THIS PARCEL. FROM THE PRIOR YEAH, FROM WHENEVER THEY PUT IN. THE BIGGER THEY PUT THE BIGGER ONE IN. YEAH. YEAH. RIGHT. I WOULD BE OKAY WITH IT. SO MOTION BY MR. CLARK. SECOND BY MR. MAHONEY. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. MOTION CARRIED. THANK YOU. NEXT ITEM ON THE AGENDA IS JOSEPH AND KIM JABLONSKI REQUESTING REZONING OF PROPERTY LOCATED AT SIX FIVE. FIVE ZERO HELPS ROAD FROM C TWO TO RA. NOW I WAS AT, NOT AT THE LAST MEETING, WE HAD A SIMILAR, UH, THING THAT WAS BROUGHT UP AND WE, WE MOVED IT TO THIS MEETING. MM-HMM. WHY DID WE DO THAT? OR THIS PART OF THE WORK? OKAY, SO, SO IT'S A REZONING. SO WE JUST HAVE TO MAKE A RECOMMENDATION TO THE TOWN BOARD. WE WERE TOLD WE HAVE TO DO IT ON THE, WE, WE HAVE TO DO IT ON THE REGULAR MEETING. OKAY. IT WOULD STILL BE A RESOLUTION. SO, RIGHT. SO LATER ON THE AGENDA, WE WILL MAKE A, IF YOU'RE READY, MAKE A RECOMMENDATION ON THE OTHER REZONING. THIS ONE WE'RE GONNA ASK ANY QUESTION OF MR. MR. KY KIND OF KNOW THE ISSUE HERE AND THEN TWO WEEKS FROM NOW WE COULD MAKE A RECOMMENDATION IF THAT'S WHAT YOU WANNA DO OR WHENEVER YOU WANNA MAKE THAT RECOMMENDATION. AND I, I WANNA MENTION THAT, THAT I KNOW THAT, YOU KNOW, LIKE OUR ZONING CAME UP FOR US BECAUSE OF DOLLAR GENERAL. I HAD NO IDEA. WE, WE BOUGHT OUR HOUSE IN 1986. WE HAD NO IDEA THAT THE ZONING WAS COMMERCIAL. AND SO WE'VE BEEN THERE SINCE 86. WE'RE BOTH GETTING OLDER AND YOU KNOW, THERE'S A GOOD CHANCE THAT IN THE NEXT COUPLE YEARS WE'RE GONNA BE WANTING TO SELL OUR HOUSE. WE DON'T WANT A POTENTIAL BUYER TO BE STRUGGLING WITH MORTGAGES BECAUSE OF, YOU KNOW, INCONSISTENT USE WITH ZONING. SO THAT'S ALSO A PART OF WHAT'S DRIVING IT ISN'T JUST THE DOLLAR GENERAL, BUT YEAH, WE WE'VE AND YOU ALSO HAVE MENTIONED THAT THERE MAY BE OTHER PEOPLE IN THE AREA WHO MAY ALSO BE MAKING A REQUEST FOR YES. THE JURY. WELL, EVEN MORE THAN THE ONE BEFORE. IF THERE MAY BE OTHER NEIGHBORS OF THIS, UH, BRANDY DRAKES WHO'S, WHO'S ALSO COME AND, YOU KNOW, TALK, WHEN WE HAVE, UM, HER AND HER MOTHER-IN-LAW, WERE BOTH PLANNING ON SUBMITTING, THOSE ARE TWO PROPERTIES. REQUEST ZONING CHANGE. HOW LONG, HOW LONG HAS IT A HOUSE, HOW LONG HAS THAT BEEN A RESIDENCE? OUR HOUSE WAS BUILT IN, I BELIEVE IT WAS EITHER 55 OR 56, 5 OR 56. SO IT'S BEEN A RESIDENTIAL . YEAH. HER HOUSE TRANSFERS FROM THE RAILROAD IN 56. AND THEN YOU BUILT IN 86? NO, WE BOUGHT OUR HOUSE IN EIGHT SIX, BOUGHT IN 86. IT WAS BUILT IN 56. SO IT WAS AN EXIST. IT'S AN EXIST. SO AT THE TIME THE CONFERENCE PLAN WAS ADOPTED, IT WAS AN EXISTING RESIDE [00:30:01] CASE IN 1995. AS FAR AS WE CAN GO BACK THIS, THESE PROPERTIES HAVE BEEN ZONED COMMERCIAL. DON'T KNOW WHY, DON'T KNOW THE HISTORY OF WHY THEY EVER WERE THAT WAY, BUT THEY'VE BEEN ZONED COMMERCIAL. I'M, I SAID BEFORE, AND I'LL SAY AGAIN, I'M SURPRISED THAT WHEN YOU BOUGHT YOUR HOUSE, THE REALTOR AGAIN, THE TOWN DOESN'T GET INVOLVED, WOULD HAVE DONE THAT RESEARCH TO TELL YOU. BUT AGAIN, IF THE BANK DIDN'T KNOW EITHER THE, YOU'RE RIGHT. BANKS TYPICALLY WILL NOT GIVE MORTGAGES ON HOUSES THAT ARE NON-CONFORMING USE. WHEN WE DID THE CHECK, WE WENT BACK, WE WENT BACK FARTHER THAN 86 AND IT WAS STILL COMMERCIAL. YEAH. SO COMMERCIAL AS FAR AS COMMERCIAL FOR A LONG, AS FAR BACK AS WE'VE LOOKED BECAUSE WE'VE, WE'VE HAD THIS A LOT IS NOT, YEAH, I MEAN I THINK THAT'S THE THING FOR THE NEW PLAYBOY. THIS IS NOT THE FIRST TIME WE'VE RUN INTO THIS. I THINK IT LIKE CLARK AND YEP. ABBOTT. ABBOTT OVER THERE, THERE WAS AN ISSUE WHERE THERE WAS A NUMBER OF PROPERTIES. THERE WERE RESIDENCES WERE INCORRECTLY ZONED COMMERCIALLY. IT'S NOT, UNFORTUNATELY IT'S NOT. IT MAY PART OF IT, MAYBE WE MAPS WERE DIGITIZED. I MEAN, WHO KNOWS WHAT HAPPENED OR WHAT HAPPENED. COULD HAVE BEEN MISTAKES, COULD HAVE BEEN ANYTHING. BUT THESE PROPERTIES HAVE BEEN ZONED THIS WAY FOR A LONG TIME. AND YEAH, I TALKED TO MR. JABLONSKY ABOUT, IN 1995, THIS WAS A HUGE ISSUE. WHEN WE DID THE CONFINE, WE ACTUALLY HAD A MEETING IN LAKEVIEW AND THERE WAS 50% OF THE PEOPLE WHO WANTED, WANTED NO MORE COMMERCIAL. AND 50% OF THE PEOPLE WHO SAID WE NEED CONVENIENCE STORES AND STUFF DOWN HERE BECAUSE WE HAVE TO DRIVE FOR EVERYTHING. UM, SO FAR WITH THIS CONFERENCE PLAN, WE HAVE NOT HEARD THAT. WE'VE ONLY HEARD THE ONE SIDE. WE DID HAVE ONE GUY COME TO THE LAST MEETING WHO SAID HE WAS GONNA GO TALK TO HIS NEIGHBORS IN LAKEVIEW ABOUT THAT. HE BELIEVES THERE SHOULD BE MORE COMMERCIAL ZONING IN LAKEVIEW BECAUSE O OTHERWISE WE HAVE TO DRIVE EVERYWHERE AND WE DON'T WANNA HAVE TO DRIVE EVERYWHERE. SO I SAID SO FAR THAT IS NOT THE ISSUE WITH OR WITHOUT THAT THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN IS, IS RECOMMENDING CHANGES TO THESE AREAS. I MEAN, THEY SHOULD NOT BE THE WAY THEY ARE HEAVY COMMERCIAL C TWO, THEY'RE NOT GONNA BE THAT TYPE. IT WILL NOT AFFECT THE DOLLAR GENERAL PROJECTS OR THE EXISTING BUSINESSES THAT ARE THERE. BUT ANY OF THE PROPERTIES, EVEN IF THEY DIDN'T MAKE THIS REZONING APPLICATION, WE'D BE CHANGING, CHANGING THOSE. BUT IT'S GOOD TO DO THAT. YOU GUYS DON'T WANNA WAIT. NO, IT'S, IT'S A MYSTERY. I MEAN, UNTIL THAT RIGHT COMPREHENSIVE PLAN GETS ADOPTED AT THE END OF THE YEAR OR WHENEVER IT GETS ADOPTED, THEN IT WOULD TAKE TIME. IT WOULD BE 2023 BEFORE, BEFORE ANYTHING WOULD HAPPEN. WHY? IT WAS ON COMMERCIALS, A MYSTERY THAT WE WON'T BE ABLE TO SOLVE. WE UNDERSTAND WHAT THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN IN 1994 WAS TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH. AND IF WE ARE GOING TO RECOMMEND REZONING ON THESE PROPERTIES, WE HAVE TO EXPLAIN WHY, WHY WE'RE RECOMMENDING SOMETHING THAT'S CONFLICTS WITH THE CURRENT ADOPTED COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. UH, YEAH, I MEAN I WAS LOOKING AT THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AND I DON'T, I MEAN SO UNDER THE GOALS AND OBJECTIVES YOU HAVE PROTECT EXISTING RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOODS. WELL THERE'S A CHANGE MAP, RIGHT? SPECIFICALLY NO, NO, NO. I UNDERSTAND THAT THIS IS YEAH, BUT NO, I UNDERSTAND THAT YOU, YOU BROUGHT THE EXACT REASON WHY WE WOULD GO AGAINST THE MATS BY GIVING THE REASONING FOR WHY WE'RE GOING AGAINST IT'S EXISTING RESIDENTIAL HOUSES. WE'RE PROTECTING RESIDENTIAL HOUSES. AND PLUS I CAN STATE ON THE RECORD THAT THE NEW CONFERENCE PLAN THAT'S GONNA BE ADOPTED THIS YEAR WILL BE ADDRESSING THIS ISSUE. THESE PROPERTIES SHOULD NOT BE RIGHT UNTIL IT'S ADOPTED. WE DON'T DUNNO EXACTLY HOW. RIGHT. BUT I THINK WE CAN GET AN IDEA. MY POINT IS THAT YOU HAVE THIS EXISTING COMPREHENSIVE PLAN WHICH PROVIDES THAT WE, YOU KNOW, THE HOPE AND THE GOAL IS TO PROTECT EXISTING RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOODS. YEP. YOU HAVE A HOUSE THAT HAS BEEN A RESIDENTIAL USE SINCE 1956. RIGHT. AND, AND THEN YOU HAVE THE INCOMING COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, WHICH IS GOING TO EXPLICITLY ADDRESS THAT, WHICH IS HELPFUL. BUT WE ALSO GET THE SUPPORT OUT OF THE, THE EXISTING IN EFFECT, THE MAP THAT EXISTS RIGHT NOW IT'S ONLINE, HAS THIS AREA CIRCLE AS BEING CHA NEEDS TO CHANGE. ALRIGHT. OKAY. ALRIGHT. SO WHAT YOU WOULD, UM, IF YOU ARE FOR THIS ONE, AGAIN, WHETHER YOU TABLE FOR TWO WEEKS OR FOUR WEEKS OR WHATEVER, WE WOULD DO THE SAME THING, PUT IT ON THE REGULAR MEETING AND WE CAN START TO DEVELOP OUR RECOMMENDATIONS TO WHY WE WANT IT RESOLVED. CORRECT. WHICH WE HAVE TO DO IN NUMBER FOUR ANYWAY. RIGHT. WE'RE DOING IT TODAY REGARDLESS. YEAH. THE OTHER ONE WE'RE DOING TODAY. IF YOU'RE PREPARED, WE, BUT YOU HAVE TO PUT YOUR REASON ON THE RECORD OF WHY YOU WOULD, I MEAN, I THINK JEFF JUST LAID OUT. YEP. UM, BUT WE CAN DO THAT DURING THE, THE REGULAR MEETING. LIKE YOU HAVE A CONFLICTING LAND USE AND PLAN AND THEN THE COMP PLAN IS ALSO UNHELPFUL. BUT RESIDENTIAL, RIGHT. AT THIS POINT, I ARGUE TABLE. RIGHT? YEAH. WE'RE JUST GONNA TABLE THIS ONE UNTIL, WELL, THE NEXT MEETING. RIGHT. [00:35:01] I'M JUST GETTING A LITTLE BIT AHEAD OF MYSELF AND WONDERING EXACTLY WHAT WE'RE GONNA TRY AND DO YOU WANNA PUT OUR REASONING ON THE RECORD AND ONE MEETING VOTE NOT ANOTHER MEETING? NO, I THINK PUT THE REASONING IN IN VOTE ARE OKAY. AND THEN SARAH CAN JUST TYPE IT UP FOR THE MINUTES, CORRECT? YEAH, EXACTLY. YEAH. YEAH. NO, IF, IF YOU WANT FOR, FOR A REZONING. YES. OKAY. YOU'RE GONNA TABLE IT. IF YOU GUYS WANNA SET YOUR OPINIONS TO SARAH AND I, WE CAN START TO DEVELOP. YEAH, WE'RE GONNA RESOLUTION, YEAH, WE'RE GONNA TABLE THIS ONE BECAUSE IT HAS TO BE ON A REGULAR MEETING FOR US TO DO THE RESOLUTION. SO I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO TABLE JOSEPH AND KIM JABLONSKI TO MAY 18TH. SECOND MOTION BY MR. CLARK. SECOND BY MR. BOBSINE. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. MOTION CARRIED. THANK YOU. TWO DAY. AYE I DON'T TAKE TWO DAYS OFF. SO WE HAVE, WE HAVE FIVE MINUTES. UM, ANYBODY FROM GOLF CARTS UNLIMITED. WE CAN SAY IT IN SECOND CHAT. PUBLIC HEARING. NOTICE HEARING. I DO THING THAT WE HAVE TO BE VOLUNTEERS. REALLY DO LOVE, I LOVE IN YOUR SPOT CRYSTAL, LET EVERYBODY KNOW. I'LL EMAIL THIS TO YOU, BUT I ONLY HAVE ONE COPY OF IT. I WAS GONNA MAKE COPIES SOON ENOUGH. YOU GUYS, SOME OF THE PLANNING BOARD MEMBERS THE OTHER YEAR WORKED ON A MIXED USE ZONING DISTRICT. YEAH. THE TOWN BOARD ASKED ME TO TURN IT INTO A ACTUAL ZONING LAW. AND THIS IS THE ZONING LAW. I JUST WANT BILL AND YOU GUYS TO LOOK AT IT. I DID NOT CHANGE THE INTENT OF WHAT YOU WANTED TO DO. I, YOU KNOW, I MAY HAVE DIFFERENT IDEAS, BUT THIS IS EXACTLY JUST IN THE FORMAT OF A, OF A, OF A LAW. I USE SAMPLES OF OTHER LAWS AND WHATEVER. IT'S GONNA BE A FLOATING ZONE. THAT MEANS THAT'S A DISTRICT THAT DOESN'T GET ATTACHED UNLESS SOMEONE REQUEST IT. AND IT'S GONNA BE LIKE A PUD WHERE THE PLAN THAT GETS APPROVED WILL BE THE ZONING OF THE PROPERTY. SO IT'S NOT AN OPEN CHECKBOOK, IT'S NOT LIKE SOMEONE COULD GET THE THING APPROVED AND THEN BUILD HALF OF IT. SAY, OKAY, I CAN DO ALL THESE OTHER THINGS IN A MIXED USE DISTRICT. IT'S BASICALLY THE PLAN THAT'S PRESENTED APPROVED, ENCOURAGING THINGS AND SOME EXTRA TO REONE TO THAT. RIGHT NOW THAT WAY SAY IN THE INTRODUCTION, PART BOARD CAN DO THAT, BUT IT ALSO GIVES THE APPLICANTS THE ABILITY TO APPLY. RIGHT. THE APPLICANTS THE ABILITY. DEFINITELY. GOOD. THAT'S PART OF WHAT I THOUGHT. BUT, UM, IF, IF THE ONLY WAY TO DO IT IS FOR THE APPLICANT TO DO IT, THEN IT SEEMS THE SAME AS A PD. RIGHT? SO I WOULD BILL, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THEM DO BOTH AND IT WOULD NICE. I HAVE FIND, OH, I'LL EMAIL IT TO YOU GUYS. I JUST, I WAS GONNA, I JUST HAD IT DONE TODAY HAD SOMEONE LOOKED IT THROUGH IT AND WHATEVER. SO, UH, BUT THE TOWN BOARD AUTHORIZED ME TO MAKE IT INTO A WALL AND I'LL SEND IT TO JENNIFER TO TAKE A LOOK AT. UM, IT STILL NEEDS SOME TWEAKING. I DIDN'T GET INTO IT. I SAID TO 'EM THEY DIDN'T WANNA SPEND A LOT OF MONEY. SO I, I WOULD WANNA PUT VISUALS IN THAT MOST MIXED USE DISTRICTS HAVE VISUALS IN THERE, BUT WE'LL JUST LEAVE IT AS, THIS IS THE WRITTEN WORD. WERE SO UNDER THIS LAW, THE TOWN BOARD COULD REZONE PROPERTY, BUT THEY'D HAVE TO ESTABLISH EXACTLY WHAT USES THEY WOULD WANT TO SEE. THEY CAN'T JUST OPEN CHECKBOOK. IT, IT'S GOTTA BE A PLAN WITH, WITH CERTAIN THINGS DEVELOPED AND WHAT HAVE TO SAY. THESE ARE THINGS, OTHERWISE YOU'RE A . YOU CAN PUT ALL THESE THINGS ON THERE, YOU KNOW, IT HAS TO HAVE SOME SORT OF PLANT AS WELL. I MEAN, AND MAYBE THERE, I WOULD RATHER SEE I COULDN'T DO A P 'CAUSE MOST PS ARE ARE 10 OR 20 ACRES AND LARGER. THIS WOULD BE FOR SMALLER PIECES OF PROPERTY. THEY'RE 1, 2, 3, 4 ACRES, FIVE ACRES, PROBABLY EVEN LESS. SO THAT'S WHY THE PUD DOESN'T WORK. ANYWAY, TAKE A LOOK. I'LL SEND IT TO EVERYBODY. MAKE SURE THE INTENT OF WHAT YOU WANT. AGAIN, I I WASN'T AT THOSE MEETINGS, I JUST LOOKED AT WHAT YOU PUT TOGETHER AND TRIED TO TURN IT INTO A WALL. YEAH. LEMME KNOW IF I CAN HELP YOU. RIGHT. I THINK THAT'S THE ONLY CHANGE. I'M, I'M JUST LOOKING THROUGH IT. MY, MY STUFF ON THE SETBACKS [00:40:01] IN THERE. A STUFF THAT I, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? ALL OF YOUR LANGUAGE IS IN THERE. I DIDN'T REMOVE ANY OF YOUR LANGUAGE. I JUST ADDED TO IT AT THE END. I ADDED SOME OTHER THINGS. SEE IF I CAN BE RECREATED. I SAY THINGS LIKE, UH, EV CHARGING STATIONS OR ENCOURAGED AND OTHER THINGS LIKE THAT. SO WHAT'S THAT? YOU KNOW WHAT? SO IT, IT'S FLOATING AND THE TOWER. WE CAN CHANGE ALREADY IN THERE WHENEVER EVERYBODY I'LL TO I STILL SIX. ALRIGHT. EVERYBODY'S UP ON THEIR TRAINING CREDITS. RIGHT? THERE'S A WHOLE BUNCH OF TRAINING PROGRAMS COMING UP. GENESEE FINGER LAKES IS HAVING A WHOLE DAY ONE AND SOUTHERN TIER WEST IS THAT GENESEE FINGER LAKES ONCE ON NICELY DONE THE NICE ONES IN PAST. THEY DO A NICE PUTTING THOSE TOGETHER EVEN IF THEY'LL GET WHAT THE PREVIOUS ONE, YOU KNOW, ON DOUBLE THE EXTRA THAT THE PREVIOUS ONE TO WE PREPARE A RESOLUTION RECOMMENDATION. I DID HAVE A QUESTION ON RIGHT INVESTIGATION TO YEAH, WE'RE READY NOW. OKAY. UH, WELCOME TO THE MAY 4TH 22 MEETING IN THE TOWN OF HAMBURG PLANNING BOARD. PLEASE RISE ALLEGIANCE. I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA REPUBLIC JUSTICE. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. THE TV, I MEAN THERE'S PLENTY OF PEOPLE THAT PROBABLY DO THAT. ALRIGHT, FIRST ITEM ON THE AGENDA IS A PUBLIC HEARING FOR BENDERSON DEVELOPMENT REQUESTING SITE PLAN APPROVAL OF A PROPOSED COFFEE SHOP TO BE LOCATED AT 3 6 7 0 MCKINLEY PARKWAY. SO THIS IS THE, THE MCKINLEY STARBUCKS. GOOD EVENING. MY NAME IS JAMES BOG, FIVE 70 DELAWARE AVENUE. I'M ATTORNEY WITH BENDERSON DEVELOPMENT. THIS IS MY THIRD TIME HERE, BUT BECAUSE IT'S A PUBLIC HEARING, I'LL WALK THROUGH THE ENTIRE PROJECT AGAIN. UM, I KNOW THE BOARD IS FAMILIAR WITH THIS PROPERTY. UM, IT IS A LARGE SHOPPING CENTER LOCATED CANARY PARKWAY. WE HAVE WEGMANS OFF TO THE LEFT IN THAT AREA. YOU HAVE POPEYES OUT FRONT. THE AREA WHERE THE STARBUCKS IS PROPOSED, UM, IS CURRENTLY AN ASPHALT PARKING LOT. WE HAVE THE MAIN IZED ACCESS AND THEY CROSS CONNECTION TO WAGONS IN THAT AREA. AND WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING TO DO IS BUILD A 2200 SQUARE FOOT STARBUCKS. UM, THE STARBUCKS IS LOCATED EVEN WITH THE POPEYE'S ACROSS THE FRONT OF THE SITE. UM, IT WILL HAVE AN OUTDOOR PATIO AREA, UM, IN THE FRONT OF IT. IT MAINTAINS A NUMBER OF NECESSARY CONNECTIONS TO THE PARKING LOT. ONE LOCATED HERE IN THE FRONT PARKING LOT, ONE LOCATED TO THE BACK PARKING LOT AND TWO TO ACCESS THE PARKING BETWEEN THE NEW BUILDING AND THE SHOPPING CENTER. [00:45:01] UM, IT IS PROPOSING TWO DRIVE-THROUGH LANES, A DOUBLE DRIVE-THRU TO ALLOW THE STACK AND A BYPASS LANE TO GET AROUND, BUT THE TRAFFIC CONFIGURATION CIRCLING THROUGH THE S AROUND THE BUILDING AND BACK OUT EITHER DRIVEWAY. UM, WE DID PROVIDE A PARKING ANALYSIS DONE BY SRF, WHICH SHOWS THAT WE HAVE MORE THAN SUFFICIENT PARKING FOR YOU TO SHOW THIS BUILDING. WE ALSO DID PROVIDE A STACKING STUDY, UM, WHICH STUDIED THREE STARBUCKS IN WESTERN NEW YORK. ONE IN, UM, ON SOUTHWESTERN BOULEVARD, ONE ON TRANSIT ROAD AND ONE ON CAMP ROAD. THE AVERAGE STACK IS FIVE CARS. UM, THE MAXIMUM STACK BETWEEN THE THOSE THREE IS 12 CARS. AND WE PROVIDE, UM, 15 STACKING SPACES. SO WE SEE THE STACKING BY OVER THREE CARS. THE MAXIMUM, THE AVERAGE IS FIVES AND WE SIGNIFICANTLY EXCEED THE STACKING. UM, THE BUILDING ELEVATIONS ARE EXTREMELY ATTRACTIVE. IT'S A MIX OF MATERIALS, UM, THAT'S REALLY CONSISTENT WITH THE STARBUCKS NOW, UM, INCLUDING ARCHITECTURE, BRICK AND WOOD SIDING. YOU CAN SEE THAT HERE AND HERE. THE WOOD SIDING ARE ALL THE FRONT. THIS IS THE SIDE THAT FACES AKIN. THIS IS THE FRONT OF THE PATIO. YOU CAN SEE THE OVERHANG WITH THE, WITH THE COLUMNS WITH THE GLASS IN THE FRONT. THIS IS THE AREA FACING REST OF THE SHOPPING CENTER. YOU CAN SEE THE PATIO OUT FRONT AND THEY WRAP THE GLASS ALL THE WAY AROUND THE BUILDING. AND THIS IS THE, UM, BACK OF THE BUILDING WHICH FACES THE WES. UM, THAT'S BASICALLY THE PROJECT I'M HAD TO ANSWER THE QUESTION. COURT HAS A QUESTION. WE HAD AT ONE OF THE MEETINGS, EVERYONE EMAILED TO US. WE GOT A SIDEWALK IN FRONT OF YOU. WE DISCUSSED IT BRIEFLY. WAS THAT STILL OPEN FOR DISCUSSION? THE SIDEWALK ALONG RON MCKINLEY. MCKINLEY. WAS THAT PART OF YOUR WE DON'T HAVE ANY BOTH SIDEWALK. WE DON'T CONNECT THAT. ANY SIDEWALK. SIDEWALK ON. THERE'S A SIDEWALK ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE INTERSECTION, WASN'T THERE? THE SIDEWALK ON THE SIDE OF THE INTERSECTION. I, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THIS IS. UM, THIS IS ON THE DT PROPERTY OFF OUR PROPERTY, UM, IN THIS AREA. I JUST KNOW THERE WAS CONCERN THAT WE RELATED TO WHERE WE MENTIONED IT, BUT JUST FOLLOW UP. WHERE'S THE CLOSEST BUS? IT'S DANGEROUS TO WALK IN THAT AREA. WHERE'S THE CLOSEST WHAT IT'S DANGEROUS TO WALK BUS. YES, IT'S, YES. I DUNNO WHERE THE CLOSEST BUS STOP IS. UH, YOU MIND THE RENDERING BACK UP AGAIN. YOU, YOU'RE LOOKING AT A GRAY FRONTAGE FACING MCKINLEY CARPET. CORRECT. THIS IS THE MCKINLEY FRONTAGE PARKWAY. YES. YEAH. WOULD YOU BE WILLING TO, I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THAT YOU'VE DONE THAT'S NICE ON THE SIDE FACING THE INSIDE OF THE PLAZA IS THERE'S SOME WINDOWS, THERE'S SOME DIFFERENT TEXTURES, IT BREAKS IT UP. MM-HMM . IT'S VERY, UM, INDUSTRIAL LOOKING ON THE SIDE THAT WOULD BE FACING MCKINLEY PARKWAY. IS THERE ANYTHING WE CAN DO TO PERHAPS ADD SOME OF THE AESTHETIC FROM THE OTHER SIDE OF THE BUILDING THAT IT'S ON THE, I MEAN THAT'S THE SIDE THAT PEOPLE ARE GONNA SEE FROM THE STREET. THAT'S THE, THE FIRST VIEWPOINT. IS THERE SOMETHING WE COULD DO TO PERHAPS EXTEND SOME OF THAT TEXTURED TOP PIECE OF THE BUILDING OR SOMETHING ELSE WE COULD DO TO BREAK UP THE SOLID GRAY WALLS? I CERTAINLY THINK THERE'S CERTAINLY SOMETHING WE CAN DO. WE HEAR OUT THE WINDOWS AROUND BECAUSE THAT'S THE, THE KITCHEN AREA FOR THEM. STARBUCKS, ONE SIDE'S, THE GLASS, THE KITCHEN. BUT I BELIEVE WE CAN CARRY SOME OF THESE ELEMENTS FROM THE OTHER SIDE OVER THIS SIDE OF THE BUILDING. AND WE CAN DO THAT FOR THE NEXT WEEK. YEAH. JUST MOVE THE BREAK UP, THE BREAK UP THE GRAY A LITTLE BIT. WE COULD CERTAINLY DO THAT. WELL, I, I UNDERST STACK AND OUR LAST MEETING, I ASKED YOU WHEN YOU SAID THAT TARS THAT ARE BACKED UP INTO THE, UH, INTO THE STREET, INTO THE CURB LANE. YEP. THAT YOU COUNTED THAT AS STACKING. NO, WE, WE COUNTED ALL THE CARS THAT WERE STACKED AT THE STARBUCKS FOR THEIR STACKING. SO THEY WERE IN LITTLE DRIVEWAY. THEY GOT COUNTED FOR STACKING. SO YEAH, WE COUNTED THREE OF THEM. SO WE JUST DIDN'T COUNT ONE. UM, ONE IN ONE IN ONE IN ORCHARD PARK, ONE IN HAMBURG. AND THE ONE IN TRANSIT. AND AGAIN, THE AVERAGE STACK WAS FIVE CARS. SO THAT, THAT, THAT'S AREA. WE, WE DON'T WANT JUST FIVE CARS. AND I DIDN'T PROVIDE FIVE CARS. THE AVERAGE STACK WAS FIVE CARS. RIGHT. THE MAXIMUM STACK WAS 12 CARS. AND WHAT? AND WE PROVIDE 15. 15. RIGHT. NOW MY QUESTION IS, AND I DON'T AGREE WITH THE TRAFFIC STUDY BECAUSE I'VE BEEN THERE AND I WATCHED WHEN YOU'RE COMING IN FROM MCKINLEY OKAY. AND YOU'RE GOING UP AND THEN TO MAKE THE RIGHT TURN TO GET INTO THE ARE WE KEEPING YOU FROM SOMETHING? NO. OKAY. WHEN, WHEN YOU, WHEN YOU TURN. RIGHT. OKAY. THAT'S GONNA CREATE A PROBLEM. I'VE BEEN THERE WITH WITHOUT STARBUCKS THERE LAST THURSDAY. AND IT'S GONNA BE A REAL PROBLEM GETTING IN THERE, UH, WHEN YOU'RE COMING IN FROM MCKINLEY BECAUSE THERE'S NO, THERE'S NOWHERE TO GO. THE ENTRANCE IS GONNA BE RIGHT THERE. SO, YOU KNOW, I-I-I-I-I DON'T UNDERSTAND. UM, THERE'S THREE ENTRANCES, UM, AND PEOPLE WILL SPREAD OUT BETWEEN THE THREE ENTRANCES TO GET IN. UM, YOU HAVE THE ENTRANCE BACK HERE IF YOU WERE FEEDING THE DRIVE THROUGH. SO IF YOU CAME IN, YOU'D MAKE A LEFT, GO IN AROUND AND COME BACK OUT. IF YOU WERE COMING FROM WEGMANS, WE WOULD JUST COME [00:50:01] IN AND CIRCULATE THROUGH AND COME BACK OUT. IN ADDITION, THEIR BUSY TIME IS EARLY IN THE MORNING, WHICH THE REST OF THE SHOPPING CENTER IS NOT BUSY. SO IT'S ALL ALSO OFFSET HOURS. YOU'RE NOT, YOU DON'T HAVE BUSY TIMES AT THE SAME TIME. THE RESTAURANT'S IN THE BACK OR LUNCH AND IT, AND EVENINGS FOR THE MOST PART, ALONG WITH THE RETAIL, WHICH TENDS TO BE AFTERNOON AND EVENINGS. AND YOU HAVE STARBUCKS, IT'S MORNING. YOU GOT A RESTAURANT OVER HERE THAT'S ALSO AFTERNOONS. THE EVENINGS. I MEAN, THIS IS NOT, YOU JUST ANSWERED MY QUESTION THOUGH, BECAUSE EVERYTHING HAS TO GO IN TO THAT ONE ENTRANCE, WHICH TO GO TO THE DRIVE THROUGH. THAT IS CORRECT. YEAH, THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING. THAT THAT'S GONNA BE BACKED UP. AND YOU SAY IT'S FROM SEVEN TO NINE, BUT YET THEY'RE OPEN ALMOST ALL DAY. AND I, I'VE BEEN TO THE ONE, I GOTTA A RELATIVE THAT WORKS AT THE ONE ON SOUTHWESTERN. THEY'RE BUSY ALL DAY LONG. SO THE SEVEN TO NINE DOESN'T MEAN ANYTHING TO ME. THAT'S THEIR PEAK HOURS. WHAT, HOW MANY, HOW MANY CARS GO THROUGH THERE ON A PEAK HOUR? THE MAXIMUM STACK THEY HAVE IS 12 CARS. I'M I'M TALKING STACK. I'M SAYING HOW MANY PEOPLE, HOW MANY CARS GO THROUGH THOSE DRIVE-THROUGHS BETWEEN 7:00 AM AND 9:00 AM I I CAN ONLY TELL YOU WHAT THE MAXIMUM STACK IS. THE MAXIMUM. I DON'T WHAT YOU STACK. HOWEVER, HOW MANY CARDS GO THROUGH STACK DOESN'T TELL ME ANYTHING THE STACK ACTUALLY DOES BECAUSE THAT'S THE CUING SPACE FOR THE CARS. I MEAN, I, I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO TELL YOU. THE STACK, YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT TO TELL BECAUSE PROBLEM, YOU MEASURE DRIVE-THROUGHS BY STACK. TIM HORTONS IS A STACK OF REQUIREMENT. STARBUCKS IS A STACK OF REQUIREMENT. DUNKING DONUTS IS A STACK OF REQUIREMENT. THEY DON'T MEASURE THE AMOUNT OF CARS THAT COME THROUGH. THEY MEASURE HOW MUCH THEY CAN QUEUE UP IN THAT TIMEFRAME. THAT'S HOW MUCH THEY CAN CLEAR THROUGH. WELL HOW MUCH CAN THEY PUT IN THAT TIME FRAME? WHAT I'M ASKING, I THINK MR. JIM'S POINT THAT I'M GONNA DO A COMPARISON. YOU JUST SAID OTHER, OTHER DRIVE STRIP THE VILLAGE TIM HORTON'S. I CAN'T GO INTO CVS COMING SOUTH PARK COMING FROM MILES STRIP. 'CAUSE THE STACKING OF THE TIM HORTON'S GOING INTO THE VILLAGE IS ALL THE WAY DOWN SOUTH PARK. I CAN'T GO INTO THE CVS DRUGSTORE 'CAUSE THERE'S, THERE'S MORE THAN 12 CARS STACKED ON SOUTH PARK. WHAT IF, WHAT IF WE LOST SOME PARKING SPACES TO THE NORTH TO MOVE THE BUILDING A LITTLE BIT? TO ADD A FEW MORE STACK SPOTS? I COULD PROBABLY ADD TWO MORE STACKING SPOTS AND BRING IT TO 17 FIVE. I CAN'T, FIVE WOULD LOSE ALL THE PARKING. THIS IS A, THIS IS A 12 FOOT, EVERY CAR IS 12 FEET. I MEAN, MIKE, I GUESS I, I GUESS, I GUESS WE'RE MOVING AWAY FROM FACTS BECAUSE I GOT ASKED TO STUDY. WELL, WELL LET, LET ME, LET ME EXPLAIN WHY I, I SAY FIVE. 'CAUSE UH, YOU, YOU SAID JUST NOW THAT DIFFERENT PLACES HAVE DIFFERENT STACKING AMOUNTS. TIM HORTON'S IS AT 20 NOW WHEN THE TIM HORTON'S THAT MR. MAHONEY MENTIONED WENT INTO THE VILLAGE, THAT WASN'T THE NUMBER. THEY, THE, THE NUMBER OF THE STACKING SPOTS WAS LESS. THEY PUT IT IN. IT WAS THE BEST DECISION THEY COULD MAKE ON THE INFORMATION. IT WAS THE WRONG DECISION. MM-HMM . WE ENDED UP IN A VERY SIMILAR SITUATION ON CAMP WHERE WE, WITH THE BEST DEC BEST INFORMATION WE HAD, WE MADE A DECISION, WHICH TURNED OUT TO BE WRONG BECAUSE THE STACKING FOR STARBUCKS ON CAMP WAS MORE IN REALITY THAN WHAT THE NUMBER WAS AT THE TIME. MY WORRY, I THINK STARBUCKS IS COMPETING WITH TIM HORTON AND DOING A VERY GOOD JOB OF IT TO, SO THE POINT WHERE THEY'RE STACKING IS GONNA BE SIMILAR IN COMING UP YEARS. IT'S BECAUSE WE GOT THE INFORMATION FOR CAMP ROAD. MM-HMM . WE, WE LET THEM BUILD SOMETHING THAT HAD MORE THAN ADEQUATE STACKING FOR THE INFORMATION WE HAD. MM-HMM . AND IT TURNED OUT, YOU KNOW, IT BURNED US WRONG. BUT, BUT IN THAT CASE, YOU BUILT A STARBUCKS REQUIREMENT, WHICH WAS PROBABLY SEVEN OR 10, UH, WHERE WE STUDIED THEM. THE 12 IS MAX. WE'VE ALREADY EXCEEDED THAT. I'M, I'M ALREADY, I'M ALREADY PAST. RIGHT. I'M ALREADY PAST THE MAX AND, AND, AND CAN I PICK UP TWO MORE SPACES THEN? YOU'RE AT 17. SO YOU'RE, SO YOU'RE SAYING THAT YOU WANT THEM TO BE AT 20 TACTIC SPACES. I I WANT, I, I WANT, I WOULD REALLY LIKE IF WE COULD MEET THE SAME STANDARDS FOR ANY DRIVE THROUGH COFFEE SHOP AS TIM HORTON'S. BECAUSE IT SEEMS LIKE IT'S NOT EXCLUSIVE THE STACKING ISSUES TO TIM HORTON'S ANYMORE. BUT YOU DON'T HAVE ANY LEGAL REQUIREMENTS FOR STAFF. I THINK SO. CORRECT. WE HAVE GUIDELINES. SO MIKE, WHAT WHAT I, YOU CAN'T USE FIND TIM HORTON'S GUIDELINES. THAT'S THEIR, THEIR GUIDELINES TO A STARBUCKS. I GUESS WHAT ARE THE TOWN'S GUIDELINES? SO HOLD, SO HOLD ON. WE'RE STILL TRYING TO FIGURE THIS OUT. NOW. YOU ACTUALLY HAVE TO HAVE LEGAL GUIDELINES. YOU CAN'T JUST MAKE UP CAN YOU HOLD, CAN YOU GIVE US A SECOND HERE? YEAH, I UNDERSTAND. SO MY CONCERN IF WE GO TO TRY TO PUSH TO 20 IN THIS PARTICULAR LOCATION IS WE WOULD HAVE TO LOSE SOME PARKING SPACES. AND I RECOGNIZE THAT THERE IS SORT OF A DELICATE BALANCE BETWEEN MAINTAINING SUFFICIENT PARKING SO THAT IF IT'S LUNCHTIME, WHERE THERE'S A TIME WHEN PEOPLE ARE GOING IN TO SIT DOWN AND TAKE A BREAK IF THERE'S SUFFICIENT PARKING WITH SUFFICIENT STACKING. [00:55:01] MY, I'M NOT SURE THAT THAT'S A GOOD ANSWER. 17 SEEMS LIKE MAYBE AN INTERPLAY. MY CONCERN IF WE ADD FIVE ADDITIONAL STACKING SPACES IS IT'S GOING TO EAT UP MOST OF THE PARKING LOT. AND I WOULD SAY I FEEL LIKE 15 IS A, IS A FAIR AMOUNT OF STACKING SPACES AS WELL AS THE PARKING THAT PEOPLE MIGHT PARK AND WALK IN. BUT I UNDERSTAND WHERE YOU'RE COMING FROM, BUT I, WHAT I DON'T WANNA DO IS LOOK, LOOKING AT THE MAP, IT LOOKS LIKE THEY'VE GOT 50% MORE PARKING SPACES THAN POPEYE'S. HOW MANY, HOW MANY PARKING SPACES WOULD YOU LOSE IF YOU ADDED TWO, TWO STACKING SPOTS? WE WOULD LOSE 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. SO TWO SPOTS WHERE PUSHES EVERYTHING SIX SPACES FORWARD. SO YOU CAN'T, THE MOST I CAN ADD IS TWO. AFTER THAT WE LOSE THE ENTIRE FRONT PARKING FIELD. AND I, AND I DON'T THINK THAT'S, THAT'S A NON-STARTER IN MY OPINION. AND, AND WE ALREADY EXCEED THE STACKING. SO I'M, I'M, I'M, BUT WE, WE DIDN'T JUST HIT 12. I I DIDN'T COME HERE AND SAY I KNOW WE COUNTED 12. WE SHOWED 12, WE COUNTED 12 AND I GAVE WORLD FOR EDITION. RIGHT. SO I'M, I'M ALREADY EXCEEDING THE REQUIREMENT AND WE CAN'T APPLY ALL, ALL DIFFERENT USES. YOU HAVE DIFFERENT STACKING, I MEAN IF THIS IS MCDONALD'S AND WOULD HAVE A DIFFERENT STATUTE. UNDERSTOOD. WE'RE JUST TRYING TO, IT, IT'S JUST A BIT, I UNDERSTAND MR. CHAIRMAN'S SAYING IT'S JUST A, WHAT WE WANNA MAKE SURE DOES NOT HAPPEN IS THAT PEOPLE DON'T STACK OUT THE ENTRANCE. CORRECT. AND THAT'S A ONE-WAY ENTRANCE TO STAFFING VERY SHORT AND, AND WE DON'T WANT YES, IT IS. WE DON'T WANT THEM TO STACK. THAT'S WHY WE PROVIDE THE THREE EXTRA STALLS AND WE DON'T WANT 'EM STACKING THE DRIVE AISLE EITHER. SO ONE OTHER QUESTION, IF SOMEBODY PULLS OUT OF, WHICH I'M ASSUMING IS PRIMARILY GONNA BE EMPLOYEE PARKING SPACES. INDEED. YES. SO IF SOMEBODY LEAVES THE EMPLOYEE PARKING SPACES, DO THEY HAVE TO KIND OF CUT THROUGH THE THEY'RE GONNA TAKE THE BYPASS LANE. THE BYPASS LANE. SO YOU HAVE TWO STACKING LANES. THEY NARROW TO ONE. OKAY. THEY GO BY THE WINDOW. AND THIS IS PURPOSELY A BYPASS LANE? IT IS THE BYPASS LANE. SO EVEN IF YOU, EVEN IF YOU GOT INTO A STACK AND YOU DECIDED YOU DIDN'T WANNA WAIT FOR COFFEE, YOU COULD PULL OUT THE BYPASS LANE AND GO AROUND THE BUILDING. OKAY. I MEAN, I WOULDN'T BE WILLING TO CONSIDER 15 OR 17 IF WE WANTED TO GO BACK AND FORTH. BUT I AM NOT COMFORTABLE WITH THE LOSS OF PARKING SPACES TO GO AND HAVING SOME TEEN. AND I THINK WE SHOULD THINK CAREFULLY. I WOULD SAY THOUGH THAT I'VE NEVER SEEN HARDLY ANY CARS PARKED IN THE POPEYE'S. PEOPLE GO THROUGH THE DRIVE THROUGH. IT'S RARE THE PEOPLE, UNLESS MY USE HOURS ARE COMPLETELY OFF. IT'S RARE THE PEOPLE ACTUALLY SIT DOWN IN THE CONFERENCE. WELL, AND THEY ALSO PARK NUMBER ACROSS, I FORGOT PARKING LOT. YEAH, IT WAS, WE GOT, WHICH THEY COULD DO FOR STARBUCKS IF THEY, THEY SAT DURING COVID PEOPLE, THEY SAT ON THE SIDE AS MUCH. THAT WAS PRE COVID. PEOPLE WERE SITTING WITH THEIR WIFI. THAT'S PROBABLY GONNA COME BACK AS THEY KNOW. I GUYS, AND I DIDN'T MEAN TO INTERRUPT MR. CHAPMAN, BUT HIS POINT WAS ABOUT THE ANSWER TO THE STACK. NOW MY QUESTION YOU, I'VE DRIVEN THIS A COUPLE TIMES, GUYS. WE'RE RECORDING MR. CHAPMAN. I, I WE'RE RECORDING. I DRIVE ONE MEETING GUYS, I DRIVE TO THE SITE VISITS QUITE A BIT AND I'VE BEEN AT THIS SITE A COUPLE TIMES GETTING OUT THE EXIT, GOING TOWARDS WAGS RIGHT AT THE END OF DOOR. YOU COME BACK. I COULDN'T EVEN GET OUT THERE AND I DON'T KNOW, IT WAS EARLY MORNING BECAUSE OF WAGMAN'S BECAUSE THEY WERE GOING OUT THERE LIGHT. I COULDN'T MAKE A LEFT OUT THERE. THERE WERE PEOPLE, WE WERE ALL PARKED WAITING TO GET OUT. SO ACTUALLY I TURNED AROUND AND WENT OUT THAT ENTRANCE. JUST YES. AND THAT'S SORT OF THE THOUGHT WITH THE FLOW PAD, RIGHT? CORRECT. GO THROUGH THE OTHER YEAH, GO THROUGH THE OTHER DIRECT EVERYONE BACK OUT TOWARDS OUR SIGNAL. SO THE IDEA IS WE WOULD ASSUME THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE GONNA USE THIS SIGNALED ACCESS. THAT'S HOW THEY GET. I'M HOPING THAT'S THAT THEY'LL COME IN HERE. ALSO, TRAFFIC IS A LEARNING MOVEMENT, RIGHT? SO AS PEOPLE TEND TO LEARN THE EASIEST MOVEMENTS TO MAKE, SO USING THE, THE CENTER LANE COMING IN AND TAKING THE LEFT AND FEEDING THE DRIVE THROUGH AND BACK OUT TO THE, TO THE SIGNAL IS, IS THE WAY THIS WAS DESIGNED. OKAY. NO, I I GET IT. THERE'S A SIGNAL. THE OTHER ONE GUYS. YEAH, BUT IT'S ON MCKINLEY. YOU HAVE TO GO IN WHEN YOU GO OUT, YOU WAIT UNTIL THE WHITENESS PEOPLE COME OUT, THEY NEED TO MAKE YOUR LEFT. SO PEOPLE, THEY'RE SITTING THERE COME IN THAT WAY. BUT PEOPLE TO LEAVE FOR SURE. BUT I DON'T THINK PEOPLE ARE GONNA COME IN THAT WAY. THEY'RE GONNA COME IN ON THE WAGON SIDE AND THEY'LL HAVE TO MAKE THAT QUICK WRITE. THEY'LL COME IN, THEY'LL COME IN THAT WAY. THAT'S WHY. YEAH. RIGHT. BUT HOPEFULLY THEY WILL BE DIRECTED OUT. BUT THAT'S WHY THE STACKING IS ALWAYS MY MAJOR CONCERN. MM-HMM. BECAUSE THERE IS CONSISTENTLY AND ALWAYS IN AND OUT OF WEGMANS, YOU CANNOT MOVE. EXACTLY. YOU CANNOT MOVE. THAT'S A, THAT'S GONNA BE A BAD CORNER. THAT SECTION. YOU GUYS ARE ASKING THE RIGHT QUESTIONS. ALL THE TOWNS ARE STRUGGLING WITH THIS. I WILL CHECK WITH, I KNOW THE LOCAL DOT HAS STACKING NUMBERS FOR TIM HORTON'S AND WHATEVER AND STARBUCKS. UM, THE BIGGEST ISSUE IS WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT IS THAT THERE WILL BE A TIME WHEN THERE'LL BE 20 CARS STACKED THERE. THEY'LL HAVE A PROMOTION OR SOMETHING. THERE WILL BE A TIME, NOT THAT I AM, BUT SPEAKING TO MY FAMILY WHO ARE FREQUENTERS OF, OF STARBUCKS. THERE WILL BE A TIME, WHAT YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT IS IN THOSE INSTANCES THAT HAPPEN MAYBE A FEW TIMES A YEAR OR WHATEVER, THAT NUMBER IS WHAT, WHAT [01:00:01] POTENTIAL PROBLEM DOES OCCUR. THE STATE DOT DOES NOT WANNA SEE TRAFFIC BACKING OUT ONTO THE STATE HIGHWAY. OBVIOUSLY THIS WILL BACK INTO THE PARKING LOT AND CREATE INTERNAL PARKING PROBLEMS. I MEAN THAT'S, THAT'S GENERAL. THE ONE, THE NEW ONE, AND I'M SORRY IF THAT THAT'S YOURS, BUT THE ONE AT, AT TRANSIT AND MAPLE IN AMHERST, THAT IS WRONG THE WAY THAT'S DESIGNED BECAUSE YOU HAVE THREE PLACES WHERE YOU GET INTO THE STACKING LINE AND THEY BACK OUT ON THE MAPLE ROAD. NOW BECAUSE THE PEOPLE WON'T LET 'EM INTO THE LINE TO GET INTO THE, INTO THE STARBUCKS THERE. WE'RE TRYING TO AVOID PROBLEMS LIKE THAT. YES. AT SOME POINTS THERE WILL BE A PROBLEM. WE'LL PUSH BACK INTO THAT PARKING LOT. IS THERE A WAY TO RESOLVE THAT PROBLEM OR IS THERE A WAY THAT INTERNALLY THAT PEOPLE ARE JUST GONNA AVOID IT AT THAT POINT, NO MATTER WHAT KIND OF PARKING YOU'RE GONNA GET SOME DAY THAT SOMEONE'S GONNA HAVE MORE THAN 20 CARS BACK. OR IT COULD BE 18 CARS, COULD BE 20 CARS THAT YOU WOULD THINK THE, THE RATIONAL PERSON WOULD GO, HEY, THE LINE'S TOO LONG AND I'LL COME BACK LATER. UM, BUT THEY TEND TO DO THAT. YOU'RE LOOKING AT THE RIGHT ISSUES. YOU DON'T WANT IT BACK DOWN THE HIGHWAY. YOU DON'T WANNA CAUSE PUBLIC HEALTH AND SAFETY ISSUES. UM, YOU WANNA IN, IN THOSE WORST CASE. AND I JUST WANNA ADDRESS THAT BECAUSE STARBUCKS HAS ACTUALLY ADDRESSED IT DIRECTION TOO BY HAVING QUICK PICKUP. RIGHT. SO, SO THERE, THERE TO, AND I, I KIND OF DISAGREE WITH YOU DREW BECAUSE THEY, THEY'VE SEEN THAT PROBLEM IN TRANSIT. MAPLE, YOU CANNOT COMPARE THIS. THERE'S THREE ENTRANCES TO ONE DRIVE-THROUGH. I WOULD NEVER DESIGN SOMETHING WITH THREE ENTRANCE. YOU HAVE ONE ENTRANCE TO ONE DRIVE-THROUGH. YEAH. BASICALLY THOUGH, BUT STARBUCKS HAS DONE TO, TO INCREASE, DECREASE THE STACKING IS THEY HAVE DONE MOBILE ORDERING AND QUICK PICKUP. AND WHAT THEY'RE GONNA DO IS LABEL, PROBABLY THE FIRST FOUR SPOTS HERE IS MOBILE ORDER. WHAT HAPPENS IS YOU ORDER AHEAD, ALL GOES THROUGH THE LINE, THEY PARK HERE, THEY WALK INTO THE STORE, THEY WALK OUT. YOU DON'T EVEN, YOU DON'T EVEN STAY IN THE STORE. THE CUPS ARE ACTUALLY RIGHT AT RIGHT AT RIGHT WHEN YOU COME IN. UM, SO DO TO FURTHER REDUCE THE STACK. AND THIS HAS, THIS IS WHAT, HOW THIS IS GONNA OPERATE. YOU'RE GONNA HAVE THE DRIVE THROUGH, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE THE QUICK MOBILE ORDER UP FRONT. YOU HAVE THE PEDESTRIAN DETECTION TO WALK IN. PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND OUT. IF YOU SIT AND WATCH STARBUCKS, THAT'S A COMMON, THAT'S A COMMON ACTIVITY NOW. SO I DON'T THINK WE'RE, WE'RE I STILL THE MAXIS 12? WE'RE STILL AT 15. CAN I GET TWO MORE STALLS? I, I COULD DO I BELIEVE WE NEED IT? NO. DO WE, DO WE WANNA BACK UP? WE CERTAINLY DON'T. WE OWN 200 STARBUCKS, BUT WE CERTAINLY DON'T WANT THEM BACKING UP THE NORTH PLAZAS. SO JUST TO CLARIFY, SO WHAT WOULD BE ALTERNATE STACKING IS THERE'S FOUR SPACES DESIGNATED FOR QUICK PICKUP. CORRECT. FOR LIKE A MOBILE APP ORDERING. OKAY. YEP. SO THOSE ARE YOU, SO YOU LOOKED AT THE, AT THE PARKING ISSUE, HOW IT WOULD AFFECT PARKING GENERALLY IN THE PLAZA, RIGHT? MM-HMM . WAS THERE, YOU KNOW, HYPOTHETICALLY IF WE LOST THOSE, UH, YOU SAID IT WAS FIVE OR SIX SPACES TO CREATE THE TWO ADDITIONAL STACKING SPOTS. IS THERE, YOU KNOW, HYPOTHETICALLY, WOULD YOU EXPECT THERE TO BE ROOM IN THE LARGER PARKING AREA FOR INDIVIDUALS TO PARK THERE AND WALK ACROSS THE STARBUCKS? YEAH, WHEN YOU LOOK AT PARKING, IT'LL GET THE OVERALL SHOPPING CENTER. SO THE AMOUNT OF SPOTS TOTAL. SO THERE IS MORE THAN ENOUGH PARKING TOTAL FOR THIS BUILDING. IT WILL, IT WILL SHIFT. AND WE LOSE THESE SPOTS. WHAT WE'LL DO IS IF THIS GOT FULL, THAT'S WHY WE HAD THE PEDESTRIAN CONNECTIONS UP TOP. IT'S ALL ONE. WE OWN EVERYTHING. IT'S ALL ONE PARKING FIELD. IT JUST SHIFTS THE LOCATION OF THE PARKING. UM, I WOULD SAY THAT, AND NOT, NOT THAT I'VE SPOKEN TO HER. THESE ARE PROBABLY GONNA BE EMPLOYEE PARKING. THAT THAT'S WHERE THEY'RE PUT THE EMPLOYEES. IT'S ANGLED IN ONE WAY AND THAT WAY THEY COME IN AND OUT. BUT CUSTOMERS WILL PARK HERE AND IF THEY CAN'T PARK HERE, THIS WILL BE THE NEXT LOCATION THEY PARK. 'CAUSE THEY CAN WALK RIGHT TO THE FRONT DOOR AND THE PATIO. AND YOU'RE RETRIP THE PEDESTRIAN ACCESS CROSSWALKS ACROSS THE, SO WE GOT, WE GOT ONE HERE AT THE FRONT. WE GOT ONE HERE AT THE BACK WITH THE SIDEWALK THAT GOES ALONG THE STORE. SO IF YOU PARKED LOCATION, YOU CAN WALK AROUND THE BUILDING. WE'VE GOT ONE HERE IN THE FRONT THAT TAKES YOU IN THE PARKING LOT. ONE HERE IN THE BACK. THAT TAKES YOU IN THE PARKING LOT. HOW MANY EMPLOYEES? HOW MANY EMPLOYEES DO YOU I THINK THEY HAVE ANYWHERE BETWEEN SIX AND EIGHT. WHAT ABOUT BILLS BEING, DID YOU CUT WITH YOUR, WITH YOUR TRAFFIC STUDY? THERE'S LOT OF BILLS TRAFFIC THAT GOES THROUGH I DRIVE. HAVE YOU PUT THAT INTO YOUR TR TRAFFIC STUDY? WE, WE DID A PARKING STUDY AND A STACKING ANALYSIS. SO SMALL IT DOESN'T JUSTIFY A TRAFFIC STUDY. UM, SO THERE'S NO TRAFFIC STUDY. THERE WASN'T NO. DID YOU YOU DO, COULD YOU GET A HOLD OF CORPORATE? I KNOW MAYBE YOU DON'T HEAR THE ANSWER. 'CAUSE THEY GOTTA HAVE, IT HAS HOW MANY, WHAT IS THE AVERAGE THAT GOES THROUGH THERE? BETWEEN 7:00 AM AT 9:00 AM I'M VERY CURIOUS ABOUT THAT. AND I I BELIEVE THAT IT'S NOT GONNA BACK UP ONTO MCKINLEY. IT'S CERTAINLY NOT GONNA BACK UP ON MCKINLEY. I THINK IT BACK UP THE TOP. POSSIBLY BACK UP ON MCKINLEY. ACTUALLY CAN'T BACK UP. HOW MANY, HOW MANY FEET? HOW MANY [01:05:01] HAVE TO INTERRUPT YOU DENNIS? HOW MANY FEET IS IT FROM? FROM MC, FROM THE WAVE'S PART ENTRANCE. WE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TO MCKINLEY. HOW MANY FEET FROM HERE TO HERE? IT'S MORE THAN 40 FEET, RIGHT? IT'S IT'S, IT'S GOTTA BE ALMOST 60 FEET BECAUSE IT'S WIDER THAN THE WIDTH OF THE PROPERTY, WHICH IS LIKE ELECTIVE CAR. SO WE'RE TALKING SIX CARS. YOU'D HAVE TO GO AROUND HERE, AROUND HERE. I MEAN NO, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT COMING IN. YEAH, COMING IN, COMING IN NOW. COMING FROM MCKINLEY THIS WAY. YEAH, NO, NO, I'M TALKING ABOUT YOU COME MCKINLEY PARKWAY. OKAY. ALRIGHT. YOU'RE COMING IN FROM SOUTHWESTERN. MM-HMM . SO YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO MAKE A LEFT IN THERE. THE OTHER ENTRANCE. YOU'RE, YOU'RE AT THE WRONG ENTRANCE RIGHT THERE. OKAY. YOU'RE GONNA COME IN HERE? YEAH. SO YOU'RE TELLING ME AFTER THE 15 CARS STACK AND WE KEEP GOING. SO WE GET 16, 17, 18. OKAY. 20, I MEAN 30. I MEAN I, I I CAN'T, I GUESS, I GUESS I DON'T YOU HAVE A SCENARIO WHERE YOU NECESSARILY GOT ONTO MCKINLEY? NO, I CAN SEE THE, I CAN SEE THE CONCERN, BUT I THINK WITH THE ADVENT OF MOBILE ORDERING, I THINK THERE'S A LARGE DEMOGRAPHIC OF STARBUCKS FOLKS WHO WOULD RATHER QUICK PICK UP THAN GET IN LINE AND WAIT, EVEN IF THERE WAS 50 PEOPLE LINE, THEY THEY WOULD COME, THEY WOULD UH, BLOCK THE WEGMAN'S PARKING LOT BEFORE THEY WENT INTO MCKINLEY. I, I DUNNO, I GUESS, I DUNNO HOW THEY WOULD HIT WEGMAN'S. THAT'S WHAT MY QUESTION WAS ABOUT THE EMPLOYER. IF THEY WENT MCKINLEY. BUT I'M SAYING THEY WOULD JUST ACROSS DON'T. OH, I SEE. OH, OKAY. I SEE THE OTHER TWO. IT'S NOT, YOU CAN'T FIX IT THOUGH. OKAY. SO, SO THE OTHER THING I'M THINKING ABOUT THE DRIVE THROUGH IS, SORRY, JUST THE, LEMME ANSWER YOUR QUESTION BECAUSE IT'S IN THE STUDY. UM, SO THE NUMBER OF VEHICLES FROM SEVEN TO NINE WAS 124 AT SOUTHWESTERN BOULEVARD, 116 AT TRANSIT ROAD. AND THEY COUNTED TWO TIMES ON, UM, CAMPO WERE 49 AND SEVEN THREE. THAT WAS BETWEEN SEVEN AND 9:00 AM THE AVERAGE SERVICE TIME IS ABOUT 221 SECONDS. AND WITH THAT, WITH THOSE VEHICLES AND THE SERVICE TIME, THE MAXIMUM STACK AND A ONE TIME IS 12 CARDS. I JUST WANNA MAKE A QUICK POINT, QUICK POINT. WHEN WE GO PARTY, YOU SAID WHEN THAT LOT'S FULL CUSTOMERS ARE GONNA GO ACROSS THE WAY AND WE RECOGNIZE THAT WHEN THE POPEYES WENT IN RIGHT. UH, AND WHAT WE HAD THEM DO IS PUT IN SPEED HUBS. MM-HMM . SO WE'D PROBABLY WANT THE SAME TYPE OF THING OVER. WE, WE COULD ALSO MAKE THOSE, UM, ELEVATE. WE LIKE TO DO THE ELEVATE SIDEWALK. YEAH. THE SIDEWALKS LIFTED. YEAH. DOWN THAT WAY PEOPLE CAN WALK ON THE ELEVATION AND I COULD CERTAINLY PUT THOSE IN THERE INSTEAD OF JUST STRIPING. IT WOULD SLOW TRAFFIC DOWN AND YOU THAT WAY WALK FOR PEOPLE TO GET THERE. THAT SOUNDS NICE. THAT'S A GREAT IDEA. WE CAN CERTAINLY DO THAT WITH THESE TWO. RIGHT? WE'LL DO THEM WITH THESE TWO RIGHT HERE. SO THE OTHER THING I WAS WONDERING IS WHETHER OR NOT WE COULD POTENTIALLY ADD ANY LANDSCAPING ALONG MCKINLEY. I KNOW WE PROBABLY HAVE TO. THERE'S LIKE A LITTLE STRIP OF GREEN NOW WHERE THE STARBUCKS HAS GONNA BE, YOU'RE NARROWING DOWN A LITTLE BIT OF A GRASS AREA ALONG THE PARKING LOT SIDE. MM-HMM . AND I'M WONDERING IF YOU COULD DO SOME SORT OF SHRUBB, SHRUBBERY OR LANDSCAPING, SOME SORT OF OTHER SET OF ENHANCEMENT. YOU COULD ADD SOMETHING IN A CO, WE COULD ADD SOME LANDSCAPE IN THAT AREA. SO YEAH, SOMEWHERE ALONG THAT STRIP AND MAYBE ALONG JUST KIND OF IMPROVE THE, MAYBE THE TWO AREAS OF THE PARKING WHERE, WHERE THE PARKING IS. WE COULD CORRECT. YEAH. RIGHT HERE. YEP. AND RIGHT HERE. YEP. YEAH, WE CAN CERTAINLY HAVE SOME LANDSCAPING BACK. SO I JUST WANNA RETURN BRIEFLY TO THE SIDEWALKS QUESTION. SO THE ANSWER TO THE SIDEWALKS QUESTION AS I UNDERSTAND IT, IS THAT THERE'S NOT ROOM FOR A SIDEWALK ON YOUR PORTION IN ORDER TO GET A SIDEWALK IN, IT WOULD HAVE TO BE ON DOT ON PLAN. THAT IS CORRECT. THAT'S THE ANSWER. OKAY. WELL, THIS IS, WE'RE ON FOR A PUBLIC HEARING. SO LET'S, UH, LET'S HEAR FROM THE PUBLIC. UH, NOTICE ONE MORE QUESTION. YOU SAID YOU DIDN'T DO A TRAFFIC STUDY. YOU DID A, WE DID A PARKING STUDY, WHICH IS REQUIRED BY YOUR CO AND A STACKING ANALYSIS. OKAY. I GOT A LETTER FROM THE, UH, TRAFFIC SAFETY ADVISORY BOARD THAT IS AT THE, UPON REVIEW OF THE TRAFFIC STUDY SUBMITTED IN SUPPORT OF THE PROPOSAL. SO, WELL, WHAT DID YOU GUYS LOOK AT? WELL, THAT'S WHAT I'M LOOKING AT, IS WHAT THEY SUBMITTED FROM SRF ASSOCIATES TRAFFIC WENT ON SITE. WE HAVE TO [01:10:01] KNOW THE WORDING OF THE TRAFFIC STUDY OR A STACKING STUDY. AND I, AND I THINK FOR VERBAL HEARING, WE DON'T NECESSARILY NEED TO SPLIT HAIRS ON WHETHER IT WAS A TRAFFIC OR A STACKING. WHEN WE GET TO WHETHER WE MAKE A DECISION ON THE TRAFFIC, IT'S IMPORTANT THAT WE KNOW WHAT IT WAS AND WE HAVE A COPY OF IT AND WE CAN REFER TO THE DOCUMENT WHAT THE DOCUMENT'S CALLED ISN'T NECESSARILY AS IMPORTANT AS WHAT'S IN IT AND WHAT IT, WHAT IT MEASURES. SO AS LONG AS WE'RE CLEAR ON THAT, WE'RE ACCURATE. SO IF SOMEBODY CALLS IT A TRAFFIC STUDY AND SOMEBODY ELSE CALLS IT SOMETHING ELSE, AS LONG AS WE ALL KNOW WHAT WE'RE REFERRING TO. I NORMALLY DON'T DISAGREE, BUT IT'S TWO SEPARATE THINGS. TRAFFIC IS ONGOING TRAFFIC. IT'S GOING STACKING, IT'S STACKING YOU, YOU SHOULD KNOW YOUR NUMBER. BUT TRAFFIC, YOU CAN'T PREDICT THAT. SO THAT'S WHY I THINK THE DIFFERENCE IS THERE'S A CON I'M NOT DISAGREEING WHAT YOU'RE SAYING THAT WE SHOULD CONSIDER. I'M SAYING THE WAY I LOOK AT IT, THE WAY I'M RECEIVING IT, WHEN I READ A TRAFFIC STUDY THAT'S SUBMITTED OVER ALL THE YEARS I'VE BEEN HERE, THAT I SEE A TRAFFIC STUDY OF ONGOING TRAFFIC THAT'S GONNA BE FLOWED WELL, AND, AND IF WE HAD A TRAFFIC STUDY OF ONGOING TRAFFIC ON MCKINLEY, IT WOULDN'T BE, IT WOULDN'T BE VERY RELEVANT TO WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT. OKAY. SO I THINK THAT, I, I THINK THAT'S JUST TRAFFIC SAFETY ADVISORY BOARD IS NOW NOTED. THEY'RE WORDING FOR THEIR FUTURE MEMOS. AND I THINK THAT'S, THERE WE GO. I THINK WE SHOULD MOVE ON TO THE, UH, I'LL SEND YOU MENGEN, UH, MEMO. PLEASE DON'T . DOUG, YOU HAVE NOTICE? YES. READY NOTICE IS HERE BY, GIVEN THAT TOWN, HAMBURG PLAYING BOARD WILL CONDUCT A PUBLIC HEARING ON A REQUEST BY BENDERSON DEVELOPMENT TO CONSTRUCT A COFFEE SHOP AT 3 6 7 OH MCKINNEY PUBLIC HEARING BE HELD ON MAY 4TH, 2022 7:00 PM IN ROOM SEVEN OF HAMBURG TOWN HALL. DRIVE THROUGH. I THINK IT'S OKAY. IT'S OKAY FOR THE NOTICE FOR RESOLUTIONS DRIVE THROUGH. ALRIGHT. SO AT THIS TIME I'M GONNA OPEN UP THE PUBLIC HEARING ON WHAT I'M CALLING THE MCKINLEY STARBUCKS. SO IS THERE ANYONE HERE THAT WANTED TO SPEAK, UH, FOR OR AGAINST THE MCKINLEY STARBUCKS. ALRIGHT, SO ARE YOU, UH, OH. YOU STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD, PLEASE, SIR. YEP. MY NAME'S WILLIAM STATE. I'M LIVE AT 34 9 4 DICKENS ROAD. UH, I AM THE GUY THAT WROTE THE EMAIL ABOUT SIDEWALKS. OH. OH, OKAY. SO I, I'M AN INTERESTING GUY. I LIVE OVER AT BEDFORD, HUGE NEIGHBORHOOD. UM, SIDEWALKS ARE, WE SHOULD HAVE A LITTLE BIT MORE WALKABLE AREA ON KINLEY PARKWAY AS DEVELOPMENT HAPPENS. I'M LOOKING AT THIS RENDERING HERE. I SEE SIDEWALKS. I DON'T KNOW WHY BENDERSON CAN'T RUN SIDEWALKS DOWN TO HERE. CONTINUE ON HIS OWN RENDERING. PICK UP SOME OF THAT PARKING SPOT, RUN IT DOWN TO HERE. BECAUSE AS DEVELOPMENT HAPPENS, I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY I CAN'T GO A HALF MILE DOWN THE ROAD TO STARBUCKS TO GET A CUP OF COFFEE, IF THAT'S WHAT I WANT TO DO. THERE'S HUNDREDS OF APARTMENTS ON MCKINLEY PARKWAY. THERE'S A HUGE NEIGHBORHOOD AND WE'RE TRYING TO AVOID TRAFFIC. IDEALLY, WE COULD WALK AND GO GET A CUP OF COFFEE. I, I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY WE CAN'T WALK ON A SIDEWALK. HOWEVER, BENDERSON DOES HAVE, I BELIEVE HE OWNS AT LEAST A COUPLE OF THESE SIDEWALKS AT WENDY'S. HE MAY NOT OWN THAT ONE. RACHEL'S AND MCKINLEY, RACHEL'S AND, UH, FIVE GUYS ON MCKINLEY, HE HAS SIDEWALKS THERE. SIDEWALK GOES TO NOTHING. IT'S ALWAYS NOTHING BUT A SIDEWALK IS DEVELOPING HAPPENS. WE'LL CONNECT TO SOMETHING. UM, ALSO THE MCKINLEY COMMONS THAT PICASSO'S RUNS FROM 20 UP THEIR SIDEWALKS THERE. AND I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY THE PLANNING BOARD WOULD AVOID REQUIRING HIM TO PUT SIDEWALKS HERE. HE DOES HAVE ENOUGH SPACE ON HIS PROPERTY AND NOT THE OT LAND MAKES A LOT OF MONEY. HE COULD EASILY ALSO ADJUST HIS PLAN, TAKE UP THIS LANE RIGHT HERE ON, IN THE ENTRANCE INTO WEGMANS. AVOID THAT. 'CAUSE THAT'S JUST LIKE A PARKING LOT OUTLOOK. AND HE'D BE ABLE TO BRING TRAFFIC IN THERE AND IT WOULD AVOID THE CONFLICT OF TRYING TO MAKE A LEFT INTO TON'S PARKING LOT FROM THAT DRIVEWAY THAT HE GETS CAUGHT OFF ON THIS SIDE. BUT THAT'S MY ARGUMENT ON SIDEWALKS. AND I'M THE GUY THAT WROTE THE EMAIL. I DIDN'T ACTUALLY HEAR FROM ANY ONE OF YOU GUYS THAT A RESPONSE, BUT NOT A BIG DEAL. WELL, HOLD ON. SO, OH, WELL WE, WE READ YOUR EMAIL. I NO, I DIDN'T GET A RESPONSE. YOU DON'T RESPOND. OH, YOU DON'T. I I I GUESS I'M NO, WE DON'T. I'M NEW TO ALL. NO, WE DON'T. NO, WE DON'T. STEVE. WE READ HIM. THAT'S WHY I BROUGHT IT UP. ALL I SAID. THAT'S GREAT. I'M, I'M ACTUALLY HAPPY SOMEONE WHO BROUGHT IT UP AND I THINK THIS GENTLEMAN DID HERE TOO. SO, SO OBVIOUSLY MY BIGGER PROBLEM IS, [01:15:01] OKAY, THIS WHOLE MCKINLEY, BUT AS FAR, 'CAUSE HE OWNS THIS PLAZA HERE, UM, THAT POPEYE'S IS ONLY DRIVE THROUGH ONLY AND THEY DON'T ACTUALLY ALLOW PEOPLE INSIDE. THEY HAVEN'T DONE THAT IN TWO YEARS. SO GO IN THERE. I'M TELLING YOU, YOU I LIVE THERE IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD AND YOU CAN GO THERE AND TRY TO SIT DOWN AND YOU CANNOT SIT DOWN. I'M TELLING YOU FACT, YES, IT'S, CAN YOU PROBABLY CHANGE IT FOR THE PANDEMIC? THAT'S, AND, AND THAT'S FAIR. BUT YOU HAVE TRAFFIC AND MORE TRAFFIC AND THERE'S NO PLACE IF I'M PEDESTRIAN AND SOMEBODY SUGGESTED THAT I WALK THE PLAZA IN THE LAST PLANNING BOARD MEETING, AND THAT'S NOT, THAT'S NOT AN ACCEPTABLE RESPONSE. WE'RE BRINGING ALL THESE CARS IN, SHOULD BE A SIDEWALK. SO AS FURTHER DEVELOPMENT HAPPENS ALONG KIND THE PARKWAY AND IT, THE FACT THAT THERE'S NO CROSSWALK TO GO FROM STARBUCKS TO WEGMANS, THAT'S, THAT'S A WHOLE NOTHER ENTITY. BUT HE'S OWNS THE MCKINLEY MALL AND THERE'S CURB CUTS ON MCKINLEY MALL PROPERTY ALSO. AND, UH, THAT SHOULD BE ADDRESSED HERE. AND BUS STOP QUESTION NEAR HIS BUS STOP IS RIGHT HERE. SO IT'S NOT ON THAT SIDE OF THE STREET. BUT IF I WANTED TO WALK FROM STARBUCKS, GET TO THAT BUS STOP, THERE IS NO CROSSWALK FOR ME TO CROSS. AND I, THAT'S A DANGEROUS PLACE TO WALK. VERY DANGEROUS. AND I, I'VE SEEN HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE TRY TO WALK FROM WEGMAN'S TO MCKINLEY MALL AND VICE VERSA. SO IT SHOULD BE A PLACE TO WALK. AND THAT'S, UH, THAT'S MY 2 CENTS. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. ALRIGHT, ANYBODY ELSE ON THE MCKINLEY, STARBUCKS, ANYTHING ONLINE? WE HAD ONE COMMENT FROM A SAM SUAREZ WHO QUALIFIES AS A MILESTONE FOLLOWER OF US, UH, THAT SAYS HOW YOU DO THAT. I DUNNO, HE'S GOTTA FLAG, BUT HIS COMMENT IS THAT BENDERSON IS CHEAP. THAT'S WHY , OKAY. SO THAT'S THE ONLY COMMENT THAT I SEE ONLINE. IT'S THE JOYS OF THE FACEBOOK COMMENT. BUT HE'S A MILESTONE FOLLOWER. I'M NOT THERE YET. OH, HOLD ON. WE'VE GOT TWO MORE. WHY WOULD THE PLANNING BOARD MAKE BENDERSON PUT SIDEWALKS IN FOR A NEW STARBUCKS? ALSO, SAM SUAREZ THIRD COMMENT. THE PLANNING BOARD MADE SCHMITZ AUTO PUT IN SIDEWALKS ON CAMP ROAD BY THE HAMBURG HIGH SCHOOL SHOULD MAKE BENDERSON. ALRIGHT. YEAH. AND THAT'S AN EXAMPLE. AND THAT'S AN EXAMPLE WHERE YOU HAVE THE QUESTION IS WHY WOULD YOU BUILD A SIDEWALK TO NOWHERE? AND THE IDEA IS THAT IT'S ALWAYS GONNA BE A SIDEWALK TO NOWHERE UNLESS YOU, SO HOLD ON. WE NEED TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING BEFORE WE HAVE CONVERSATION. SORRY, I DON'T KNOW IF WE NEED TO CLOSE IT BEFORE WE HAVE A CONVERSATION, BUT, UM, MADE, YEAH, HE MADE THE COMMENT ABOUT THE SIDEWALK. RACHEL'S, IT GOES NOWHERE. AND THAT'S THERE BECAUSE THE PLANNING BOARD ASKED FOR IT TO BE THERE. SO WE, WE DO THAT. SO WHETHER WE DO IT IN THIS CASE OR NOT, I DON'T KNOW, WE'RE NOT THERE YET. THERE'S A FEW FACTORS FOR US TO CONSIDER. BUT EVERYTHING BEING EVEN WE WOULD ABSOLUTELY PREFER PEDESTRIAN ACCESS. THAT ONE REALLY DIDN'T GO NOWHERE EITHER. THERE WAS SIDEWALKS IN THE AREA. I REMEMBER WE GOT THE ISSUE OF WHERE THEY WOULD CROSS THE STREET AND THEN CONNECT TO THE SIDEWALK. SO, UM, THAT'S BEEN ALWAYS BEEN THE ISSUE HERE ON MCKINLEY, IS FIGURING OUT WHERE THE SIDEWALKS ARE AND WHERE WE'RE GONNA BRING THE PUBLIC TO. I REMEMBER KINLEY IS COUNTY OWNED, I BELIEVE NOT STATE OWNED. UM, AND WORKING THAT WE ARE GONNA BE WORKING WITH THE MALL OWNERS AND WHATEVER ABOUT MAKING THE AREA MORE WALKABLE IS CALLED OUT COMP PLAN. WE JUST HAVE TO HAVE A PLAN PUT TOGETHER. UH, WHETHER IT GOES ON PRIVATE PROPERTY OR OUT IN THE PUBLIC. USUALLY IT'S IN THE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY, THIS LARGE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY. UM, BUT WELL, I MEAN THAT IT'S AN ISSUE THAT WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO DEAL WITH. WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO DEAL WITH WALKABILITY. LOOKING AT THE MAP, THE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY IS PROBABLY THE BEST SPOT FOR IT. BUT WE HAVE A PRIVATE DEVELOPMENT IN FRONT OF US AND IF WE CAN GET IT TO WORK THAT WAY, THEN TRY AND GET IT TO WORK THAT WAY. RIGHT. BUT I DON'T WANT TO ALSO BUILD A SIDEWALK DOWN TO AN AREA HERE AND HAVE PEOPLE TRY TO CROSS THE HIGHWAY HERE. NOW THAT'S NOT WHERE THAT, WE WANT 'EM TO CROSS THE HIGHWAY HERE. SO IT IS A DIFFICULT ISSUE. WE NEED TO RESOLVE THIS. MCKINLEY WAS NOT DESIGNED CHALLENGE. THE CHALLENGE IS THE BUS STATION, THE BUS STOP IS ACROSS. I MEAN, AND THAT'S, AND AND IN THEORY, IF PEOPLE ARE USING BUS TO GET IN IT, SAME ISSUE. WALK CROSS THAT AGAIN WAY. AND MARIA, WE PUT THE, THE STUFF IN PARTICULAR IS THAT WE NEED TO MAKE SURE, AND IT MAY BE A CONVERSATION THE TRAFFIC SAFETY ADVISORY BOARD COULD TAKE UP WITH THE COUNTY ON A MORE HOLISTIC, BECAUSE THE ENTIRE, IT'S, IT'S IN THE COMP PLAN, IT'S IN THE DISCUSSIONS ALREADY. THIS AREA HAS TO BE MADE TO BE WALKABLE. THE AREAS CHANGING THE IDEA OF MALLS WHERE IT WAS EVERYBODY COMING BY CAR IS NO LONGER, WE'RE TRYING TO MAKE IT WALKABLE AND BIKEABLE, LIKEABLE AND BIKEABLE. I MEAN, IT'S GOTTA BE, IT'S GOTTA CHANGE. AND I, I CROSSED THE STREET THERE ONCE, NEVER WILL AGAIN. DO YOU GUYS KNOW ONE CROSSWALKS AT ALL? YES. BETWEEN, YES. OKAY. ALRIGHT. [01:20:01] SO, UH, FOR THE THIRD AND FINAL TIME, ANYBODY FOR OR AGAINST, UH, ANY COMMENTS FOR OR AGAINST THE MCKINLEY STARBUCKS BEING NO ADDITIONAL COMMENTS. I WILL NOW CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING. TYPICALLY THIS WILL GET TABLED FOR YOU TO PUT TOGETHER. HOW DO YOU WANNA PROCEED WITH THIS? THERE'S NO DECISION WHAT CLOCK. RIGHT. BUT JUDGE YOU WANNA DO IS, IS GIVE ASSIGNMENTS TO YOUR TOWN ENGINEER TO ME, TO THE TRAFFIC SAFETY BOARD, TO THE APPLICANT. IS THERE ANY ADDITIONAL INFORMATION YOU NEED TO MAKE THIS DECISION? SO CAN I ASK A QUESTION SO WE CAN, WE CAN DISCUSS? SURE. SO JUST, WE'RE GONNA GO BACK, WE'RE GONNA WORK ON THE SIDE OF THE BUILDING. THEY SEE YOU CAN YEP. YEP. WE'RE GONNA DO THAT. WE'RE GONNA GO BACK AND REWORK THE LANDSCAPING YEP. IN THE TWO AREAS. PARKING AREA. ONE OTHER QUESTION ON THE LANDSCAPING. YEP. SO THE LANDSCAPING FACING ON THE SHORT EDGE OF THE PROPERTY FACING MCKINLEY, LOOKS LIKE IT HAS A REALLY NICE FLOWER BED ON IT. THIS ONE? YEP. THAT'S, UM, CAN WE, OR BY A TO SCREEN THE UM, DUMPSTERS. OH, WELL THERE'S, WELL NO, IT LOOKS LIKE THERE'S FLOWERS ON THE GOOGLE STREET FIELD. OH, EXISTING FLOWERS. YEAH. SO I'M WONDERING IF LIKE, IT LOOKS LIKE THERE'S A BED OF FLOWER BED OVER. I JUST SEE WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING AT. SO I YEAH, COME ON BY. I CAN. SO THAT IS, UM, THAT'S GOOGLE STREET. SO THEY HAVE THIS SORT OF BED. I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S ANYTHING LIKE THIS THAT WE CAN DO ON THE SHORT END ON THE OTHER SIDE. WE CAN TAKE A LOOK AT THAT. YEAH. I MEAN IT MAY NOT NEED TO BE THIS INTENSIVE IN TERMS OF PLANTING MAINTENANCE, BUT YOU MEAN IN THIS AREA RIGHT HERE? YEAH. TO MAKE IT MATCH THE OTHER SIDE. WE CAN LOOK AT THAT. THANK YOU. SO WE WE'RE WORK LANDSCAPING HERE ON THE PARKING LANDSCAPING HERE ON THE PARKING A BED OUT IN THE GREAT GRASS AREA THAT'S OVER THERE. UM, THE TIED, KIND OF TIED IN THE REAR SIDE. YEAH. AND FOR NATIVE SPECIES. YEAH. AND WE GOT THE, THE ELEVATION THERE. THE TWO CHANGES I CAN MAKE. I'M STILL 40, 15 PARKING STALLS. UM, I WOULD LIKE TO LEAVE THE PARKING IN FRONT. I BELIEVE WE HAVE MORE THAN OUR STACKING. I THINK OUR STUDY SHOWS THAT, BUT I GUESS THAT'S THE LAST ISSUE TO REALLY BE DISCUSSED. WELL, I THINK, I MEAN, I THINK THAT'S ONE OF THE BIGGEST QUESTIONS THE PEOPLE ON THE BOARD HAVE. I DON'T, I DOUBT ANYBODY'S OR MANY PEOPLE HAVE A FINAL DECISION, BUT THE MORE STACKING SPACES, THE MORE PEOPLE ON THE BOARD THAT YOU'LL PROBABLY MEET THEIR NUMBER. NO, I JUST, I JUST, I'M NOT SURE WHAT THE NUMBER IS BECAUSE WE HAD HAVE TO DO A STUDY. WE GAVE IT TO YOU AND THEN WE EXCEEDED IT. SO I GUESS NOW WE'RE, WE'RE KIND OF JUST PICKING NUMBERS AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT NUMBER TO PICK. UM, WELL THE REASON I, YOU GIVE US EXAMPLES OF OTHER PLACES. YEP. THOSE ARE EXAMPLES OF OTHER SPOTS WE LIVE IN THIS COMMUNITY. WE, I GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE, LOCALLY IN THE VILLAGE OF HIM MM-HMM . HOW, HOW THAT STACK HAS BECOME A PROBLEM. OR MR. CLARK HAS GIVEN ONE ON THE CAMP ROAD OF AN EXAMPLE, LIVING IN THIS AREA, NOT MAPLE AND TRANSIT, NOT OTHER AREAS, BUT WE COUNTED THE ONE AT CAMP ROAD AND WE COUNTED THE ONE IN NORTH PARK. SO I GUESS WE COUNTED THE ONES IN THIS AREA. I CAN, I CAN COME CLOSER TO ANSWERING YOUR QUESTION TO THE NUMBER FOR ME PERSONALLY. YEAH. RIGHT NOW, TODAY, IF IT WAS 20, I WOULD BE FINE. 15. I'M VERY APPREHENSIVE HOW I'M GONNA BE WHEN THIS COMES UP FOR VOTE. I CAN'T ANSWER THAT RIGHT NOW. BUT I CAN TELL YOU WHAT I'M THINKING RIGHT NOW IS I'D BE VERY COMFORTABLE WITH THE NUMBER 20. AND I DON'T THINK I'M VERY COMFORTABLE WITH NUMBER 15. SO I 20 IS NOT POSSIBLE. I I'M JUST, I'M JUST TELLING YOU WHERE MY HEAD'S, THAT'S ALL. WE WANNA DENY IT BECAUSE WE'RE NOT PROVIDING 20 I I'LL, I'LL TAKE THE DENIAL AND WE CAN GO FROM THERE. I DON'T THINK THAT'S FAIR. UM, BECAUSE WE GOTTA GO OFF FACTS AND I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW HOW TO AGREE IF I NEED A TRAFFIC STUDY AND THE ENGINEER COUNTED ALL THE TRAFFIC QING STUDY. NOW IF I DID A TRAFFIC STUDY AND THE ENGINEER SUBMITTED A TRAFFIC STUDY, WE WOULDN'T BE CLAIMING THE ENGINEER DIDN'T KNOW HOW TO DO TRAFFIC. AND HERE WE HAD AN ENGINEER, HAD AN ENGINEER DO A STACKING STUDY. BUT WE'RE CLAIMING THAT THAT'S NOT GOOD ENOUGH. WE'RE GONNA PICK DIFFERENT NUMBERS AND THAT, AND WE ACTUALLY COUNTED STARBUCKS IN THIS AREA. WE DIDN'T COUNT STARBUCKS ALL OVER THE PLACE. AND ONE OF 'EM WAS ON TRANSIT ROAD THAT IS FURTHER AWAY. THAT IS THE BUSIEST ROAD IN HERE COUNTY. SO THAT'S WHY WE PICKED IT. THE TYPICAL THING IS WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN IN THE FUTURE. BUT, BUT, AND THOSE ARE THE SAME THINGS THAT HAPPENED WHEN THEY PUT THE TIM HORTONS IN THE VILLAGE AND WHEN WE, THIS BOARD PUT THE ONE ON CAMP ROAD AND WE MADE A MISTAKE THAT WE DO NOT WANT TO DUPLICATE. WHICH, WHICH THAT'S WHY WE'RE WORRIED. AND I UNDERSTAND THAT, WHICH IS WHY I EXCEEDED THE MAXIMUM OF 12. RIGHT. AND THE AVERAGE IS FIVE. SO I GUESS WHERE THE AVERAGE IS FIVE, THAT MEANS MOST OF THE TIME WE'RE GONNA HAVE MORE THAN ENOUGH STACKING JUST SITTING. YES. AND WHEN IT HITS 12, WE STILL HAVE THREE MORE SPOTS. SO I, I GUESS DOING MORE THAN THAT SEEMS COUNTERINTUITIVE TO ME. UM, BECAUSE IF WE'RE NOT WILLING TO RELY ON THE STUDIES, I GUESS WE'RE JUST, YOU DON'T HAVE A TOWN CODE. CHIEF DAGA HAS A TOWN CODE. IT'S 17. THAT'S THEIR NUMBER FOR ALL DRIVERS. THEY ADOPTED A CODE AND THAT'S WHAT THEY ENFORCE. IF YOU TELL ME YOUR CODE WAS 17, I WOULD BE, I WOULD PICK, [01:25:01] I WOULD HAVE TO DO 17 BUT VARIANCE. BUT I GUESS WHEN WE'RE MAKING UP NUMBERS, IT'S HARD FOR AN APPLICANT TO PICK THAT NUMBER WHEN WE DISREGARD THE STUDY I GAVE YOU, WHICH IS WHAT'S HAPPENING. SO I DON'T THINK THAT WE'RE MAKING UP NUMBERS AND I WANNA JUST BE VERY CLEAR ABOUT THAT. I THINK THAT WHAT THIS BOARD IS TRYING TO DO IS DRAW AN ANALOGOUS PARALLEL TO A SIMILARLY SITUATED COFFEE SHOP. IT IS NOT A STARBUCKS, IT IS A TEAM HORTON'S, BUT WHEN IT WENT IN, IT WAS THE ONLY DRIVE THROUGH IN THE VILLAGE MM-HMM AND IT IS A NIGHTMARE. THIS ONE IS GONNA BE THE ONLY DRIVE THROUGH COFFEE SHOP IN ANY KIND OF VICINITY. SO WHILE WE ARE NOT COMPARING APPLES TO APPLES, IT IS ANALOGOUS. AND SO I DO NOT THINK WE'RE MAKING UP NUMBERS BECAUSE YOU HAVE SAID IT WAS 20 FOR TIM HORTON'S. SO THEY'RE, THEY ARE FACTS, BUT THEY'RE JUST NOT THE ONES THAT WERE USED IN YOUR STUDY. SO I'M LIKE, WELL, BUT YOU'RE KIND, YOU KIND, TIM HORTON'S IS A DIFFERENT USER. LIKE THAT'S WHY I'M SAYING THEY ARE DIFFERENT FACTS BECAUSE IF I, YOU CAN APPLY MCDONALD'S STACK INTO IT OR WE COULD APPLY POPEYE STACK INTO IT. WHEN, LOOK AT, WHEN I LOOK AT THE MCKINLEY STARBUCKS, IT LOOKS A LOT MORE LIKE A TIM HORTON'S DRIVE THROUGH THAN ANY OTHER DRIVE THROUGH WE'VE GOT IN TOWN. I GUESS THAT'S, THAT'S WHY I CAME UP WITH THAT NUMBER BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT IT, THAT'S NOT BOOKS, IT'S NUMBERS. SO I THINK THE OTHER THING I JUST WANNA BRING UP IS THAT THE NUMBERS ARE, IT LOOKS LIKE THE THING THAT I THINK MITIGATES THE TRAFFIC STACKING AND SHIFTS THE STAFFING AND THE DRIVE, I THINK IT'S WORTH CONSIDERING, I'M NOT SAYING I'M COMING DOWN ONE NUMBER OR THE OTHER. I AGREE. 20 IS NON-FUNCTIONAL. WE NEED MORE PARKING. AND PART OF THE REASON WE NEED MORE PARKING IS THAT ACCORDING IN, ACCORDING FROM APRIL 20TH, 2021, MORE THAN A QUARTER OF ALL STARBUCKS IN THE US WE'RE NOW PAID FOR WITH A SMARTPHONE. SO IT'S, IT WAS 26%. THERE'S PLENTY OF PARKING ON THE OTHER SIDE. WELL, CORRECT. BUT IF THERE'S PARKING, SO YOU COULD LOST THOSE SPOTS, YOU STILL PARKING WELL, RIGHT. BUT IF THAT, AND THEN IT LOOKS LIKE, UH, SIX MONTHS BEFORE THAT IT WAS NOT QUITE A QUARTER BEFORE THAT IT, YOU KNOW, MOBILE ORDERS, UM, FROM 2019 WERE 16%. SO WHAT I'M SEEING, YEAH, THEY'RE GONNA GO UP. YEAH. SO IS IT THAT THERE'S A TREND IN MOBILE ORDERS AND I WOULD SAY THAT THERE'S A SIMILAR DEMOGRAPHIC BETWEEN THE DRIVE AND THE MOBILE ORDERS. SO WHAT I DON'T THINK WE WANNA DO IS LOSE THE CONVENIENCE OF THE PARKING WITH THE MOBILE ORDERS, WHICH IS BETTER THAN HAVING ADDITIONAL STACKING WITH ADDITIONAL ENGINES. SO PERHAPS ONE OF THE THINGS, SO AS YOU CAN SEE THERE'S, THERE'S DIFFERENT OPINIONS ON THE BOARD IS SIGNAGE. AND WE'RE GONNA, WE'RE GONNA HAVE SIGN THE SIGNAGE AT THE END OF THE STACKING LINE THAT SAYS DON'T WAIT IN LINE ORDER ON, YOU KNOW, DO A MOBILE ORDER AND WE'LL BRING IT OUT TO YOUR CAR. AND, AND MOST OF THEIR CUSTOMERS ARE, I DON'T DRINK COFFEE, BUT MY WIFE WILL WAIT MOBILE ORDERS. SHE JUST GOES IN. RIGHT. I MEAN, I MEAN YOUR NUMBERS ARE CORRECT. YOU'RE ALMOST AT QUARTER OF PEOPLE MOBILE ORDERING AT THIS POINT. YEAH. AND EITHER WALKING IN OR YOU'RE IN THE DRIVE THROUGH, THEY SHOOT YOU. I KNOW THEY'RE CORRECT. YOU JUST LOOKED THEM UP. I DID LOOK THEM UP. I GOOGLE THAT THANK YOU COM. BUT I, I GUESS THIS, THIS IS OUR THIRD MEETING. YES. UM, AND YOU KNOW, I, THE ARCHITECTURE, THE LANDSCAPING, I DID THE STACKING STUDY. SO 20 IS NOT AN OPTION BECAUSE I CANNOT LOSE THE PARKING FIELD IN FRONT BUILDING. DO YOU WANT TO SEE AN ALTERNATE LAYOUT THAT LOOKS AT 17 SPACES IN THE TRADE OFF IN PARKING? IS THAT WHAT WE'RE ASKING HIM FOR? WELL, I THINK 17 GETS CLOSER, BUT I DON'T, I'M NOT GONNA SPEAK FOR MORE THAN MYSELF. I DON'T KNOW. HERE, HERE'S THE THING, YOU NEED FOUR VOTES AT SOME POINT IN TIME. I DON'T KNOW WHERE EVERYBODY IS. DO WE WANNA PULL THE BOARD MEMBERS AND ASK WHAT THEIR PREFERENCE IS ON THE NUMBER? I THINK IT'S TOO EARLY TO DO THAT. RIGHT? WELL, NO, I GUESS, I GUESS THE QUESTION IS IF YOU'RE, I NEED TO KNOW A NUMBER. SO IF YOU'RE TELLING ME THE BOARD'S NUMBER IS 20, THE BOARD'S NUMBER IS 20. IF YOU'RE TELLING ME IT'S 70 17, YOU TELL ME IT'S 15, IT'S 15. I THINK WE NEED TO GIVE ONE, I CAN'T LEAVE HERE WITHOUT A NUMBER BECAUSE IT SHIFTS THE NUMBER YOU WANNA LEAVE WITH THE NUMBER. OKAY. I MEAN, OR AT LEAST, OR AT LEAST THE GUIDANCE THAT IF HE'S TELLING US THE OPTIONS ARE THAT HE CAN'T ACCOMMODATE OUR 17 AND 15, DO YOU WANT ALSO TO SEE A SEPARATE, A SECOND LAYOUT THAT SHOWS THE 17 SO WE HAVE BOTH WITH THE SAME LAYOUT IN OUR SAME LANDSCAPING AND OTHER ADJUSTMENTS OVERLAID ON IT? I MEAN, WHAT ARE WE ASKING FOR? I, WELL, HERE'S THE THING. I'M NOT PREPARED TO MAKE A DECISION, BUT I I LIKE 17 BETTER THAN 50. IS IT ENOUGH? I'M NOT SURE YET. WELL, SO, SO IN THE, I I'M GONNA BE HONEST, I IN THE INTEREST OF LIKE MOVING THIS FORWARD THOUGH, SHOULD WE HAVE HIM PREPARED TWO LAYS? IS THAT ENOUGH? I MEAN, DO WE WANT HIM TO SHOW US WHAT 17 LOOKS LIKE? I THINK IT WOULD HELP. YEAH. SO I COULD PUT ON, SO WE'LL HAVE TWO VERSIONS WITH THE LANDSCAPING, THE HUNT, WHATEVER. EVERYTHING ELSE IS EXACTLY THE SAME MEAN I MOVE, MOVE FORWARD INSTEAD OF JUST SAME QUESTION DOWN. I UNDERSTAND. AND WHEN IT COMES TO SOMETHING LIKE THIS, EVENTUALLY WE'LL MAKE A DECISION. CAN THEY PROVIDE UPDATED MOBILE ORDERING NUMBERS FOR 2022? WHAT PERCENTAGE CAN I CAN SEE, RIGHT? YEAH, I'LL TELL YOU THAT THOSE NUMBERS DON'T CHANGE MY OPINION STACKING WHATEVER THEY ARE. BUT THAT'S JUST, I MEAN IT TO MIND. AND THAT'S A SUBSTANTIAL PORTION OF THE ORDER. I MEAN THAT'S, I I I UNDERSTAND WHERE IT'S COMING FROM, BUT I DON'T [01:30:01] KNOW IF I, IT'S A SAFETY THING FOR ME JUST SO YOU'RE ON RIGHT. WHERE, WHERE I'M COMING FROM PERSONALLY, BUT IT'S A SAFETY THING FOR US BECAUSE WE DON'T WANT TO BACK UP TO THE AISLE. CORRECT. AND WE OWN 200 STARBUCKS. AND I, AND I WILL TELL YOU, I MEAN, I MEAN, AND, AND WE, AND WE, AND WE'VE PURPOSELY DESIGNED 'EM SO THEY DON'T CREATE TRAFFIC PROBLEMS, RIGHT. AND AS THE, AS THE MARKET HAS MOVED, WE HAVE SHIFTED THE DESIGN. BUT IF YOU LOOK BACK IN HISTORY, STARBUCKS HAD ONE LINE, THEY STACKED SIX. RIGHT. SO NOW WE HAVE, WE HAVE, WE HAVE THREE TIMES. WE HAVE THREE TIMES THAT WAY WE HAVE 15. AND, AND I GUESS THE WAY WE DO, YOU KNOW, AND THE WAY DREW'S COMPANY WOULD DO SOMETHING IS THEY WOULD COUNT IT AND DO THE ANALYSIS AND WHICH IS WHAT WE DID. SO I UNDERSTAND THERE ARE OTHER USERS THAT MIGHT, AND TIM HORTON'S IS CRAZY IN WESTERN NEW YORK. DUNKING DONUTS NEVER STACKS THAT MUCH. IF IT WAS A TIM HORTON'S, DUNKING DONUTS INSTEAD OF A TIM HORTON'S BOTH DRIVE THROUGH DUNK COFFEE PLACES. RIGHT. THEY'RE ACROSS THE STREET FROM EACH OTHER ON TRANSIT. DUNKING DONUTS, STACKS THREE, NO ONE GOES TO OF DONUTS. TIM HORTON'S NEXT 25, I, I DON'T EVEN UNDERSTAND IT. I'M NOT FROM THIS AREA. I WORKED WITH DUNK OF DONUTS, BUT, SO YOU CAN'T COMPARE TIM HORTON TO STARBUCKS AND DUNK OF DONUTS BECAUSE THEY ALL HAVE THEIR OWN REQUIREMENTS AND THEY ALL OPERATE DIFFERENTLY. RIGHT. AND SO, SO WE CAN ONLY LOOK AT STARBUCKS TO STARBUCKS. AND THAT'S WHAT THIS BOARD ASKED ME. THAT'S WHAT THIS BOARD ASKED ME TO DO. AND WE FOUND THE WORST CASE SCENARIO FOR THREE STARBUCKS STREET, VERY BUSY STARBUCKS. THEN WE EXCEEDED THAT REQUIREMENT. AND NOW I'M BEING TOLD EVEN EXCEEDING THAT REQUIREMENT, NOT ENOUGH. OH, HOLD ON. SO TO GO BY YOUR OWN STATEMENT JUST NOW. YEAH. USED TO BE SIX, NOW YOU'RE COMING WITH 15. SO YOU'RE ACKNOWLEDGING THAT THE DEMAND FOR THE DRIVE-THROUGH HAS INCREASED OVER THE YEARS AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT WE'RE WORRIED ABOUT, WHICH IS WHY I EXCEEDED THE 12. SO RIGHT. TO, SO TO CUT THIS SHORT, BECAUSE IT'S BEEN AN HOUR AND IT'S STILL ON THE FIRST THING OF THE AGENDA. WHAT IS, INSTEAD OF POLLING THE BOARD, BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW THAT YOU'RE GONNA GET A VERY ACCURATE NUMBER. IF YOU CAN'T GO MORE THAN 17 FOR THE PARKING SPACES, THEN SEVENTEEN'S YOUR MAX NUMBER. AND THE QUESTION'S GONNA BE WHETHER OR NOT WE WANNA LIVE WITH THAT OR NOT. I MEAN, IF YOU CAN GO MORE THAN 17, THEN MAYBE YOU COULD GIVE US NU A DIFFERENT NUMBER AND WE COULD BE, I I CANNOT GO MORE THAN 17. THERE WE GO. SO 17. AND WE'RE GONNA BE LUCKY IF I COULD HIT 17, SO, RIGHT. SO, AND, AND, AND THE BOTTOM LINE IS I UNDERSTAND YOU'RE GONNA EARN A DECISION AND I'LL HAVE THE STUDY AND WE'LL JUST, I GUESS GO FROM THERE. I MEAN, I, I I DON'T KNOW ANY OTHER PLACE I GO AND GO OFF THE FACTS, WHICH ARE THE STUDIES. WE DON'T STU WE DON'T RIGHT. ABIDE BY STUDIES. I'M GONNA MAKE A MOTION TO TABLE THE MCKINLEY STARBUCKS TO JUNE 1ST MOTION BY MR. CLARK. CAN I JUST SAY ONE ONE MORE THING REALLY QUICK? SORRY. SO, AND I'M SORRY TO RETURN TO THIS. I WANNA MOVE OFF OF THAT. THE, I'M STILL NOT CLEAR ON THE, UM, THE SIDEWALK ISSUE BECAUSE YOU SAID THAT IT'S NOT POSSIBLE BECAUSE IT IS DOT LAND. BUT THEN WHEN THE, WHEN WE DISCUSSED THE OPTION OF PUTTING IT ON PRIVATE LAND, YOU INDICATED THAT YOU WOULD HAVE TO LOSE A CERTAIN NUMBER OF PARKING SPACES TO DO SO T NO, I DIDN'T SAY I HE SAID THAT I DIDN'T SAY ANYTHING. OKAY. SO ANYWAY, WHAT I WOULD LIKE AND I DON'T YEAH. IS JUST AN UNDERSTANDING OF THE FEASIBILITY OF PUTTING A SIDEWALK ON YOUR, THAT PRIVATE STRETCH OF LAND. IF I PUT THE SIDEWALK ON OUR PRIVATE STRETCH OF LAND, WE HAVE NO GREEN SPACE FOR THE LANDSCAPING. I JUST HAD ASKED TO PUT IN, THAT'S, THAT'S THE ANSWER. I'M, I JUST WANT AN ANSWER. SO THE, THE SIDEWALK WOULD GO ALONG THE PROPERTY LINE HERE AND OR THE PROPERTY LINE HERE AND THE ONLY THING LEFT THERE WOULD BE SIDEWALK. SO I ENTERED, I COULD PUT IT IN FRONT OF THOSE TWO PARKING AREAS. IT ALSO WOULD, IN THE FUTURE TO DREW'S STATEMENT, WHO KNOWS WHERE IT'S GONNA TIE IN BECAUSE NOW WE'LL HAVE A SECTION SIDEWALK ON OUR PROPERTY AND IF YOU EVENTUALLY DO A MASTER PLAN OR YOU PUT SIDEWALK DOWN ON THE, IN THE RIGHT OF WAY, WHICH IS TYPICALLY WHERE SIDEWALK GOES, UM, IT'S NOT GONNA TIE IN. SO I WOULD, I WOULD AGREE THAT IF THE SIDEWALK EVENTUALLY GETS LAID OUT, YOU'RE GONNA, THE TOWN COULD ALWAYS ORDER SIDEWALK IN. THIS ISN'T, WE HAVE TO PUT IT IN, IF THE TOWN BOARD ORDERED IT IN, IF YOU HAD A PLAN, AND OR YOU CAN CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, BUT EVERY TOWN HAS THE RIGHT TO DO THAT. SO IF YOU HAD A NATIONAL SIDEWALK PLAN A ALLOWED IT SAID PUT THE SIDEWALK IN PLAN, WE'D HAVE TO DO IT. BUT JUST PUTTING SIDEWALK IN HERE NOW IT DOESN'T MATCH WITH YOUR FUTURE PLAN ON, SEEMS LIKE KIND A WASTE OF CONCRETE. GO GO JUST FOR THE RECORD. BUT THE LAW IS IN THE TOWN YOU HAVE TO PUT SIDEWALKS IN UNLESS THE BOARD WAVES THOSE SIDEWALKS. AND WHEN WE WAVE THEM, TYPICALLY THE COMMENT IS IT'LL GO FROM NOWHERE TO NOWHERE WHERE IT'LL CREATE A PROBLEM. YES. UM, SO THAT IS THE LAW, JUST TO LET YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE TO SPECIFICALLY WAIVE THE SIDEWALK REQUIREMENT. SO THAT'S, THAT'S HOW THE LAW IS WRITTEN. SO, AND AGAIN, USUALLY THE PRESENTATION IS, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE ISSUES IS GOING NOWHERE TO NOWHERE AND THEN JUST A SAFETY ISSUE DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO PUT SIDEWALKS IN THAT AREA. WE'VE WAIVED THEM LIKE IN SOME OF THE RURAL AREAS THAT JUST MAKES NO SENSE. OR IF THERE'S JUST NO OTHER MEANS. WE DIDN'T WAIVE THEM ON THE LAST PROJECT BECAUSE THERE WAS SIDEWALKS IN THE AREA. WE DISCUSSED [01:35:01] HOW PEOPLE COULD CROSS THE STREET AND EVENTUALLY IT'D ALL BE TIED TOGETHER. I'M NOT TELLING YOU ONE WAY OR THE OTHER, THAT'S JUST WHAT YOU'RE CHARGED WITH DOING. LIKE IT OR NOT, YOU'RE CHARGED WITH DOING IT. YOU HAVE TO SPECIFICALLY WAVE THE SIDEWALK. SO, SO I GUESS THE OBJECT, I COULD PUT THE SIDEWALKS IN THE GREEN SPACE AND NOT HAVE THE GREEN SPACE. THAT'S THE FRAMEWORK PREFERENCE BECAUSE I COULD DO THAT. I, SO THIS IS JUST THE PUBLIC HEARING WHERE WE GATHER INFORMATION FROM THE PUBLIC. I'M NOT COMFORTABLE DECIDING WHAT MY PREFERENCE IS YET, BUT THEN IT BECOMES DIFFICULT TO MOVE THE PROJECT FORWARD. I, I UNDERSTAND. AND THIS IS THE THIRD MEETING, SO I'M KIND OF LOOKING FOR SOME GUIDANCE SO I CAN GIVE YOU WHAT YOU WANT AND THE, THE QUESTION'S GONNA BE WHETHER IT'S REALISTIC THAT SIDEWALKS ARE GONNA BE PUT IN ON THE STATE RIGHT OF WAY. BECAUSE YOU'RE RIGHT. IF THEY COUNTY RIGHT OF WAY STATE YEAH. STATE, RIGHT. STATE OR COUNTY OUT RETURNS THE COUNTY. RIGHT. IT'S SETTING A STATEMENT, BUT EITHER WAY THE RIGHT OF WAY, RIGHT? YEAH. BECAUSE IF THERE'S SIDEWALKS ON THE RIGHT OF WAY, THEN I'D MUCH RATHER HAVE LANDSCAPING THAN TWO PARALLEL SIDEWALKS. THAT WOULD BE, I THINK EVERYBODY COULD AGREE THAT THAT WOULDN'T MAKE A A LOT OF SENSE. BUT IF THERE'S NOT GONNA BE ANY ON THE RIGHT OF WAY. SO, SO JUST MOVE THIS ON. AGAIN, YOUR QUESTION IS, I WOULD JUST KIND OF LOOK AT THE IDEA THAT COULD WE PUT SIDEWALKS IN AND THIS IS KIND OF WHERE, WHERE THEY WOULD GO. I WOULD, YOU KNOW, AND THEN THE PLANNING BOARD IS GONNA MAKE A DECISION AT THE NEXT MEETING OF, AT THE JUNE 1ST MEETING OF A, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE GONNA PRESENT THE IDEA COULD YOU FIT IN 17 SPACES AND THEY'RE GONNA HAVE TO VOTE ON IT. THEY'RE GONNA HAVE TO MAKE A DECISION. THERE'S NO SECRET ON THIS. IT'S BASICALLY JUST, UH, YOU ARE OBLIGATED BY THE LAW. JUST SUPPORT ON THE RECORD. 60 DAYS FROM THE PUBLIC HEARING. YOU HAVE TO MAKE A DECISION ON THIS. OKAY. ALRIGHT. THANK YOU FOR THAT. OKAY, SO I MADE A MOTION. SECOND TABLE IT TO JUNE 1ST. SECOND. AYE MCCORMICK. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. MOTION CARRIED. OKAY, NEXT ITEM IN THE AGENDA IS PUBLIC HEARING FOR VENDORS AND DEVELOPMENT REQUESTING SITE PLAN APPROVAL OF A PROPOSED NEW BANK BUILDING WITH DRIVE UP A TMB TO BE LOCATED AT 4 2 5 0 MCKINLEY PARKWAY. YES. UM, I KNOW THE BOARD IS FAMILIAR WITH THIS SITE. WE HAVE SOUTHWESTERN BOULEVARD AND MCKINLEY PARKWAY. IT HAS TWO SYMBOLIZED INTERSECTIONS, ONE ON MCKINLEY, ONE ON SOUTHWESTERN WITH TRUCK LIVING AREA, UH, WHICH WAS ALL ON THE BACK AND IT'S ANCHORED BY A TOPS AND THEN A MIXED USE RETAIL BUILDER. AND THEN I TIM HORTONS IN THIS AREA. WHEN I ORIGINALLY GOT THE SITE TOPS GAS, WHEN I ORIGINALLY GOT THE SITE PLAN APPROVED, WE HAD ABOUT 11,000 SQUARE FOOT, UM, PHARMACY HERE WITH A DOUBLE DRIVE THROUGH OF LOCATED THE AREA OF THE SCREEN. AND THAT NEVER MATERIALIZED. WE'RE BACK SEEKING THE MODIFICATION OF THAT SITE PLAN FOR A, UM, 33,350 SQUARE FOOT CHASE BANK WITH AN A TN. UM, THE BANK IS LOCATED AS THE GROUND BUILDING UP IN THIS AREA. UM, THE BANK IS LOCATED THIS AREA, THE FRONT DOOR LOCATED FACING THE KINGLEY, THE DRIVE-THROUGH LOCATED FACING SOUTHWESTERN. THE TRAFFIC CIRCULATION. WE HAD BEEN IN THE BOARD, THIS IS OUR THIRD MEETING. WE DID SPREAD THE DRIVEWAYS OUT. IF YOU RECALL, THE FIRST COMMAND HAD THE DRIVEWAY GOING RIGHT INTO THE TOPS GAS. WE UNDERSTAND THAT WAS CONCERN. SO WE SHIFTED THE DRIVEWAY TO THE FAR SIDE TOPS GAS, SO THERE'S NO INTERACTION WITH THESE CUSTOMERS AND THE GAS CUSTOMERS ON THE EXIT. WE ALSO SHIFTED SO IT CLEARS THE TOPS GAS, SO YOU GO RIGHT AROUND THE, THE CANOPY WITHOUT HAVING ANY ISSUES WITH THE PEOPLE GOING THROUGH THE GAS AREA. UM, OTHER CONCERNS THAT THE BOARD HAD AT THE TIME, UM, IS WE LIKE TO HAVE THIS ENTIRE AREA LANDSCAPE IS SEATED. WE DID DO THAT. WE PROPOSED A LANDSCAPE PLAN ALL THE WAY AROUND THE PARKING. UM, BUT FOR THAT AREA AND IN THIS AREA, WE DID PROVIDE FOUR ADDITIONAL LANDSCAPE BEDS AT THE CORNER AND WE'RE GONNA HYDRO SEED THE ENTIRE AREA THAT'S LEFT. SO SOME OF THAT AREA IS, UH, WE CALL THE PAD IF IT'S NEVER BUILT. WHEN WE GET DONE, WE CAN FULLY GRASS THE BUILDING AND LANDSCAPING JUST THE GREEN AREA OR ALL THE, THIS, THE CURVE. THIS, THIS TWO, IT JUST DIDN'T, IT JUST DIDN'T GET COLOR RIGHT. SO EVERYTHING HERE WILL BE GRASS WITH THE LANDSCAPING BEDS UP FRONT AND THEN THE LANDSCAPING AROUND THE PARKING THAT'S SHOWN. UM, THE BANK IS A VERY ATTRACTIVE LOOK. UM, IT IS A MIX OF MATERIALS. AND THEN THE BOARD SEE THIS A NUMBER OF TIMES, A NUMBER OF TIMES BEFORE. UM, IT HAS A MIX OF, UM, EACH PANEL, WHICH IS A, A LITTLE PANEL WITH ASH AND MARK. THOSE ARE THE TWO DIFFERENT COLORS. UM, IT HAS A LIMESTONE, WHICH IS THE GRAY IN THIS AREA. AND THEN IT USES, UM, BLACK TRIM AND THERE'S A SILVER TRIM AND SOME OF THE SILVER PANELS IN THE OTHER AREAS. IT'S CONSISTENT WITH THE CHASE BACK LOOK. UM, THAT'S AROUND. UM, I BELIEVE THIS IS CONSISTENT WITH THE PRIOR DEVELOPMENT. IT'S A SMALLER SCALE. THIS BOARD PREVIOUSLY APPROVED NUMBER OF YEARS AGO. [01:40:02] ALL RIGHT. A LOT LESS ISSUES ON THIS ONE THAN THE LAST ONE. ANY THING TO BRING UP BEFORE WE OPEN UP THE PUBLIC HEARING? SO THE VE YOU DON'T HAVE, SO THE VEGETATION PLAN, BASICALLY THAT ENTIRE AREA IN FRONT OF THE GRAY, SOLID GRAY SIDE OF THAT BUILDING, IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S ALL GONNA BE PLANTED, BUT THERE'S 1, 2, 3 TREES AND A BUNCH OF SHRUBS AND PLANTING YEAH. THAT ARE GONNA OBSTRUCT THE SOLID GRAY SIDE OF YOUR FACING THE TOP PARKING LOT. THERE'S, THERE'S ALL, THERE'S UM, VENTING HERE. YEAH, THAT'S WHAT I MEANT. THAT PART RIGHT THERE WHERE YOUR FINGER IS, THAT'S GONNA BE FULLY LANDSCAPED. YEP. SO THIS SIDE OF THAT BUILDING IS GONNA BE BROKEN UP. BROKEN UP WITH LANDSCAPING. YEP. WE'RE THERE'S GONNA SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF LANDSCAPING AROUND IN THE GAS STATION. I MEAN I LIKE A NICE VIEW WHEN I PUMP MY GAS. OKAY. FROM THE GAS STATION YOU GIMME CITY LANDSCAPING . UM, OKAY, SO JAMES, THIS USES UP THAT OUT PARCEL, RIGHT? WHAT THEY'RE SAYING? YEAH, I MEAN YOU, YOU COULD THEORETICALLY 10 YEARS FROM NOW, THE BANK COULD GO OUT OF BUSINESS AND THEY COULD, SOMEBODY COULD COME IN AND BUILD A BUILD BIGGER BUILDING. THEY'D HAVE TO COME BEFORE YOU. BUT THERE'S NOT, YOU'RE NOT CREATING ANOTHER OUT PARCEL. THERE'S NOT ANY SITE PLAN CHANGES THAT HAVE TO COME BACK TO THIS BOARD. CURRENTLY WE HAVE THIS TENANT AND I GOT THIS APPROVED. I THINK YOU WERE HERE WITH ME DREW RIGHT? WITH IN 2009. RIGHT? RIGHT. BUT IT'S NOT LIKE YOU'RE CREATING ANOTHER, ANOTHER PARCEL THERE. NO, NO. THAT YOU'RE GONNA NO, WE'RE CURRENTLY THIS IS THE BUILD OUT OF THAT PARCEL. YEP. SO IT WAS 11,000 SQUARE FEET. IT'S NOW 3000 SQUARE FEET. TYPE TWO ACTION UNDER RECEIPT. ALRIGHT. DOUG. NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN THAT TOWN OF HAM PLANNING BOARD WILL CONDUCT A PUBLIC HEARING ON A REQUEST BY ANDERSON DEVELOPMENT TO CONSTRUCT A BANK WITH DRIVE UP A TN AT 4 2 5 0 MCKINLEY PARKWAY PUBLIC HEARING WILL BE HELD ON MAY 4TH, 2022 AT 7:00 PM IN ROOM SEVEN B FROM THE TOWN OF HAMBURG. ALRIGHT, AT THIS TIME I'M GONNA OPEN UP THE PUBLIC HEARING FOR THE BANK ON THE CORNER OF MCKINLEY AND SOUTHWESTERN. ANYBODY HERE HAVE, YES, WE STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS ON THE RECORD PLEASE. UM, LAURA OLSTEIN, 43 30 TOKIN PARKWAY. UM, WE WENT ALL THROUGH THIS WHEN THEY BUILT ALL THIS PLAZA. I DON'T KNOW IF ANYBODY'S EVER TRIED TO ENTER THE, UH, TOPS PLAZA OFF OF SOUTHWESTERN THAT, UM, THIS ISLAND RIGHT HERE. I LITERALLY, I, WE'VE ALMOST BEEN LITERALLY KILLED TRYING TO CROSS TRYING TO GET AROUND BECAUSE TRAFFIC HAS BEEN STOPPED. 'CAUSE THERE'S SO MUCH COMMOTION RIGHT HERE. THERE'S NO ROOM FOR PEOPLE TO GET IN AND OUT OF THAT PLAZA. AND IT'S, AND IT'S, IT'S JUST VERY HARD TO GET IN AND OUTTA THERE HAWAII LIGHT. AND DURING THOSE GAMES THIS LIGHT IS TURNED OFF. SO THERE IS NO, YOU CAN'T GET ACROSS. SO, AND THIS, THIS IS A NO WRITE ON RED. WE HAVE TO COME UP HERE. THIS IS US. WE HAVE TO COME UP HERE AND COME AROUND HERE. AND WE ACTUALLY HAD THEM PUT IN A DO NOT KNOW RIGHT ON RED. EVERYBODY COMES OUTTA HERE TURNING ON RED AND WE CANNOT, WE'VE ALMOST LITERALLY BEEN KILLED SO MANY TIMES IN OUR FAMILY WE'VE COME THIS CLOSE TO BEING HIT AND THIS RIGHT HERE WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A RIGHT AND ONLY FOR THE TRUCKS TO GET TO THE BACK TOPS. EVERYBODY IS TRYING TO ESCAPE HERE AND COME DOWN HERE TO GET OUT OF HERE. OUR DRIVEWAY IS RIGHT HERE. SO WE ARE LITERALLY, PEOPLE AREN'T EVEN LOOKING AT US COMING OUT OF OUR DRIVEWAY 'CAUSE THEY'RE LOOKING THIS WAY AND WE'RE GETTING OUT OF OUR DRIVEWAY AND THEY JUST SHOOT OUT OF THERE. SO I'M NOT AGAINST THE BANK. WE NEED TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS HERE. IT'S ALRIGHT. THANK YOU. CAN'T HERE. IT'S TERRIBLE. I DUNNO IF YOU'VE BEEN INTO THE PLAZA IN THE PARKING LOTS LIKE A MAZE. ALRIGHT, ANY ADDITIONAL COMMENTS? WE HAVE FACEBOOK UP REFRESH. OH, UM, WE HAVE TWO MORE, THREE MORE COMMENTS FROM MR. SAM SUAREZ. UH, I APOLOGIZE, THIS IS PROBABLY NOT IN CHRONOLOGICAL ORDER. THE PARKING LOT IN THAT AREA IS VERY TIGHT AND HARD TO TURN IN AND OUT. ONLY TWO WAYS TO GET IN AND OUT AND IT'S WAY GO. I THINK IT'S TOO TIGHT. UH, THIRD ONE IS, THERE IS SPACE RIGHT DOWN THE ROAD NEXT TO THE NEW DOLLAR GENERAL THAT THIS PLACE COULD GO AND CORRECT. OKAY. UH, SO FOR THE SECOND TIME, ANY COMMENTS ON THE MCKINLEY SOUTHWESTERN BANK FOR THE THIRD AND FINAL TIME? ANY ADDITIONAL COMMENTS ABOUT THE MCKINLEY SOUTHWESTERN [01:45:01] BANK? ALL RIGHT. BEING NONE AT THIS TIME, I WILL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING. DO WE HAVE ANYTHING ELSE WE WANT TO LEARN ABOUT THIS PROJECT? I WANT TO ENCOURAGE YOU TO USE NATIVE SPECIES IN THESE VERY LOVELY GARDENS THAT YOU'RE ADDING TO THE CORNER. REALLY? OKAY. I DID JUST FORWARD THE LANDSCAPING PLAN. THERE'S A LANDSCAPER, A FOCUS INDIVIDUAL ON OUR CONSERVATION ADVISORY BOARD. I SAID THAT TO HIM JUST TO SEE IF HE HAD ANY COMMENTS IN YOUR PLANTING MIX. AND THEN WE'LL LET YOU KNOW IF HE HAS ANY COMMENTS. WE CAN MAKE CHANGES IF WE GET COMMENTS SEND DIRECTLY TO SARAH AND HE'S USUALLY PRETTY QUICK. AND THEN I'LL LET SARAH WILL SORT BACK WITH ME. I CAN MAKE THOSE FOR NEXT MEETING. ALRIGHT. SO YEAH, IF ANYBODY HAS ANY COMMENTS ON WHAT TYPE OF LANDSCAPING THEY'D LIKE IN THERE, UH, SEND THEM TO SARAH AND SARAH WILL SEND 'EM ALONG. UH, BUT YOU PROVIDE THOSE COMMENTS IN THE NEXT FEW DAYS. UM, ANY ISSUES WITH ASKING FOR A DRAFT RESOLUTION FOR MAY 18TH? NO. ALL RIGHT. IS THERE, THE REST OF THIS PARKING LOT IS OWNED BY BENDERSON, CORRECT? THE WHOLE PROPERTY'S GONNA LAST. OH IS IT? WOULD YOU BE AMENABLE TO HAVING A CONVERSATION WITH TRAFFIC SAFETY? IF THERE'S ANY FLOW ADJUSTMENTS WE COULD MAKE INTO THAT LOT TO ADDRESS THE THE NEIGHBORS, I'D BE HAPPY TO DISCUSS IT WITH THEM. I JUST DON'T WANT IT TO TIE UP THIS PART. I'M HAPPY. CORRECT. I'M HAVING NEW TRAFFIC SAFETY AND DISCUSS IT AND IF THERE'S A CHANGE WE CAN MAKE, I'M HAPPY TO MAKE IT, UM, YOU KNOW THINGS BETTER BUT JUST NOT TIE THIS PROJECT UP. CORRECT. CORRECT. YEAH. I DON'T THINK THIS IS, THAT'S THE SAME BUT HOLDING INTO THE LARGER ISSUE. BUT I THANK YOU FOR ASKING. I'M HAPPY IF YOU'LL HAVE A CONVERSATION. I'M MORE THAN HAPPY TO. AND THIS IS OUR CHAIR OF THE TRAFFIC SAFETY ADVISORY BOARD RIGHT THERE. AND HE HAS MY CARD SO HE CAN JUST CALL. RIGHT. WE, WE RECOGNIZE THAT THERE'S EXISTING TRAFFIC ISSUES BUT IT, I THIS IS MAKE IT WORSE. YES. RIGHT. AND THIS DOES ALREADY CONNECT THE EXISTING SIDEWALKS AND THERE IS A PEDESTRIAN WALKWAY THAT HAVE BEEN ADDED TO ACCESS THE AT M RIGHT. WE CAN SEE THE CONNECT CONNECTION THERE. CONNECTION, YEAH. YES. ALRIGHT, SO I'M GOING TO MAKE A MOTION TO TABLE, UH, THE BENDERSON SOUTHWESTERN MCKINLEY BANK TO MAY 18TH AND ALSO REQUEST THAT THE UH, PLANNING DEPARTMENT DRAFT RESOLUTIONS FOR US TO CONSIDER AT THAT MEETING. SECOND MOTION BY MR. CLARK. SECOND BY MR. SHAW. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. MOTION CARRIED. I MAY DREW, I SARAH WAS HOLDING MR. SEEKER BUT THERE'S NO SECRET REQUIRED FOR IT BECAUSE IT'S LESS THAN 4,000 SQUARE FEET. THERE'S NO SECRET. SO, OKAY. BECAUSE I DON'T, THAT'S NOT IN THAT PAST 30 DAYS WE SAID EVEN IF IT WAS RIGHT. YEAH. THANK YOU. ALRIGHT, NEXT ITEM ON THE AGENDA IS A PUBLIC HEARING FOR ESSEX HOMES OF WESTERN NEW YORK REQUESTING PRELIMINARY PLAT APPROVAL OF A PROPOSED 22 LOT SUBDIVISION TO BE LOCATED ON 14 POINT 12 ACRES OF VACANT LAND NORTH SIDE OF PLEASANT AVENUE. GOOD EVENING, CHAIRMAN CLARK, MEMBERS OF THE PLANNING BOARD SEAN HOPKINS ON BEHALF OF THE APPLICANT ESSEX HOMES OF WEST NEW YORK. ALSO WITH ME IS KEVIN CURRY ON BEHALF OF THE APPLICANT AND CHRIS WOOD FROM THE PROJECT ENGINEERING FIRM. AS MOST OF YOU RECALL, WE PRESENTED THIS PROJECT TO YOU TWICE PREVIOUSLY. INITIALLY DURING YOUR MEETING ON MARCH 2ND AND THEN MOST RECENTLY ON YOUR MEETING ON APRIL 6TH. THE SITE ITSELF CONSISTS OF APPROXIMATELY 13.78 ACRES OF VACANT LAND THAT IS PROPERLY ZONED R ONE SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL DISTRICT. WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING HERE IS A 22 LOT SUBDIVISION THAT'S SHOWN ON THE MOST RECENTLY UPDATED PRELIMINARY PLAT. AS MANY OF YOU RECALL, WE ORIGINALLY STARTED THIS PROJECT AS A 26 LOT SUBDIVISION, BUT BASED ON THE FACT THAT THE WETLAND SUBJECT TO THE ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS ON THE REAR OR NORTH NORTHERN PORSCHE SITE WAS LARGER THAN WE ANTICIPATED IN CONSULTATION WITH SCOTT LIVINGSTON FROM EARTH DIMENSIONS, WE SCALED IT BACK TO THE CURRENT LAYOUT, WHICH IS 22 LOTS. THAT ALSO RESULTED IN THE CREATION OF APPROXIMATELY 2.8 ACRES OF PERMANENT OPEN SPACE ON THE REAR PORTION OF THE SITE WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE REQUIRED STORM WATER MANAGEMENT AREA. NOW THERE'S BEEN DISCUSSION PREVIOUSLY ABOUT HOW WILL THAT STORM WATER MANAGEMENT AREA BE OWNED AND MAINTAINED. WE HAVE ACKNOWLEDGED THAT WE'LL NEED TO FORM A HOMEOWNER'S ASSOCIATION, UM, PER THE TOWN'S STANDARD REQUIREMENTS FOR THAT ASPECT ASPECT OF THE PROJECT. THE PRIMARY CHANGE THAT WE'VE MADE TO THIS LAYOUT SINCE WE WERE LAST HERE IS WE'VE [01:50:01] ADDED PERMANENT OPEN SPACE BUFFER ALONG THE ENTIRE REAR OF ALL THE 22 LOTS THAT HAS A WIDTH OF 20 FEET. ALL OF THAT AREA HAS VEGETATION THAT WILL REMAIN AND WILL BE SUBJECT TO A DECLARATION OF RESTRICTIONS, THEREBY ENSURING THAT ULTIMATELY THE PURCHASER OF THOSE INDIVIDUAL LOTS WILL HAVE TO LEAD THAT AREA UNTOUCHED. WE ALSO ACKNOWLEDGE THE FACT TOWN DOES REQUIRE TWO STREET TREES PER LOT AND THERE IS A A STANDARD LIST OF NATIVE SPECIES WHICH THOSE WILL BE UTILIZED. SO IN TOTAL, THE SITE ITSELF AS I INDICATED, IS LESS THAN 14 ACRES AND THE TOTAL QUERYING ON THIS SITE AND IMPACT TO EXISTING VEGETATION IS LESS THAN 10 ACRES. THE HANDOUT THAT WE JUST PROVIDED TO YOU WAS A LETTER THAT WAS PREPARED BY SCOTT LIVINGSTON. KEEP IN MIND THAT SCOTT LIVINGSTON IS ALSO THE WETLAND CONSULTANT AND PREVIOUSLY SUBMITTED A WETLAND PERMIT APPLICATION TO THE UNITED STATES ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS AS WELL AS WATER QUALITY CERTIFICATION TO THE DEC. HE ASKED SCOTT SPECIFICALLY WAS HE AN EXPERT IN THIS FIELD TO TAKE A LOOK AT THE SITE AND SEE WHAT HE THOUGHT IN TERMS OF THE EXISTING VEGETATION. AND ULTIMATELY WHAT HE CONCLUDED IS YES, THERE IS VEGETATION THERE. IT CERTAINLY WOULD NOT QU QUALIFY AS BEING A MATURE FOREST OR ANY TYPE OF VEGETATION THAT DESERVES ANY SUBSTANTIAL PORTION OR SUBSTANTIAL PROTECTION. ALSO IMPORTANT TO NOTE IS YOU DID INCLUDE HISTORICAL PHOTOGRAPHS, WHICH I THINK ARE REALLY IMPORTANT. OBVIOUSLY THIS SITE WAS PREVIOUSLY UTILIZED FOR AGRICULTURAL PURPOSES, AS IS THE CASE. ALL THE PARCELS IN THE SURROUNDING VICINITY. AND IF YOU START AT THE BEGINNING OF THE AERIAL PHOTOGRAPHS, THEY ACTUALLY STARTED AT 1926, WHICH OBVIOUSLY IS QUITE SOME TIME AGO. BUT YOU SCROLL THROUGH THEM AND ALL THE WAY UNTIL 1974, SOME OF US WERE ALIVE THEN. UM, THERE'S REALLY NOT MUCH VEGETATION THERE. SO THERE IS VEGETATION THERE NOW, BUT BASED ON HISTORICAL PRECEDENT, THIS WAS UTILIZED FOR AGRICULTURAL PURPOSES. SO WE THINK WE'VE DONE A GOOD JOB ADDRESSING THAT POTENTIAL IMPACT, MEANING WE HAVE THAT PERMANENT OPEN SPACE ON THE REAR THAT ORIGINALLY WASN'T ENVISIONED, THAT WAS FOR ADDITIONAL LOTS AND WE'VE MOST RECENTLY ADDED THAT 20 FEET OF PERMANENT OPEN SPACE ALONG THE REAR OF EACH AND EVERY INDIVIDUAL LOT. THEN ALONG WITH THE TWO TREES THAT ARE REQUIRED ALONG THE FRONTAGE OF EACH LOT. SO WE THINK WE'VE ADDRESSED THAT IMPACT. THE OTHER ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACTS THAT WE'VE ADDRESSED PREVIOUSLY, BUT I WANNA REITERATE ARE AS FOLLOWS. FIRST AND FOREMOST AT THAT INITIAL MEETING WE PRESENTED THIS PROJECT IN MARCH. WHILE THIS PROJECT ISN'T UNLISTED ACTION, YOU DECIDED YOU WANTED US TO SUBMIT PART ONE OF THE FULL ENVIRONMENTAL ASSESSMENT FORM AND CONDUCT A COORDINATED ENVIRONMENTAL REVIEW. SO THAT HAPPENED. NONE OF THE AGENCIES THAT RESPONDED EXPRESSED ANY OBJECTION TO THE PLANNING BOARD ACTING AS THE AGENCY. JUST AS IMPORTANTLY, NONE OF THEM PROVIDED ANY COMMENTS SUGGESTING THIS PROJECT WOULD RESULT IN ANY POTENTIALLY SIGNIFICANT ADVERSE ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACTS. WE VOLUNTARILY DID SUBMIT A TRAFFIC ANALYSIS LETTER PREPARED BY SRF ASSOCIATES. CLEARLY DEMONSTRATES THAT THIS RELATIVELY LOW DENSITY SUBDIVISION DOES NOT COME CLOSE TO EXCEEDING ANY OF THE THRESHOLDS WARRANT IN THE PREPARATIONAL FULL TRAFFIC IMPACT STUDY, NAMELY A HUNDRED VEHICLES AT A GIVEN INTERSECTION DURING A PEAK HOUR. WE ALSO HAVE PROVIDED A NO IMPACT TERMINATION LETTER ISSUED BY DANIEL MCKAY AT THE NEW YORK STATE OFFICE OF PARKS RECREATION, HISTORIC PRESERVATION DATED MARCH 23RD, 2002. THE AGRICULTURAL DATA STATEMENT HAS BEEN PREPARED AND DISTRIBUTED BOTH TO THE COUNTY AND THE TWO CROP OWNERS. AGAIN, THIS ENTIRE AREA UNTIL RELATIVELY RECENTLY WAS ENTIRELY AGRICULTURAL. WE ALSO PROVIDED A STORM WATER MANAGEMENT LETTER THAT CHRIS WOOD PREPARED. WE ALSO DID PROVIDE THAT TO CAMMY. WE ACKNOWLEDGE IT. OBVIOUSLY ONCE WE GET THROUGH SEEKER PRELIMINARY PLAT, THEN WE WILL PREPARE FULLY ENGINEERED PLANS, AN ENGINEER'S REPORT A SWIP AND OBVIOUSLY CAMMING. IF G CAMMY AND GH HD WE'LL HAVE TO CONFIRM COMPLIANCE. WE ACKNOWLEDGE WE NEED TO DO THAT AND CHRIS HAS TAKEN THAT INTO CONSIDERATION. IN CONNECTION WITH THE LAYOUT, WE'VE DONE THE REQUIRED DOWNSTREAM SANITARY SEWER TESTING, UH, THAT WAS CONDUCTED BY TECHSMITH ON MARCH 23RD DURING WET WEATHER CONDITIONS. AND IT CONFIRMED THAT DURING WET WEATHER CONDITIONS WE DO HAVE ADEQUATE DOWNSTREAM SANITARY SEWER CAPACITY PER THE DE C'S POLICY THAT APPLIES TO ANY PROJECT THAT WILL GENERATE MORE THAN 2,500 GALLONS OF SANITARY SEWER PER DAY. IN TERMS OF COMMITTEE, SORRY, JUST TO INTERJECT. YES, SARAH ASKED ME TO SAY WERE TOO FAR PAST, SAID THAT WE'VE NOT RECEIVED THE RESPONSE YET ON THE SUBMISSION OF THE AG DATA STATEMENT AT THIS TIME. RIGHT? SORRY, KEEP GOING. FROM THE COUNTY. FROM THE COUNTY. YEAH, THAT THAT IS CORRECT. WE'VE NOT RECEIVED A RESPONSE, BUT I THINK IF YOU LOOK AT THIS, YOU'VE NOT HAD A RESPONSE. RIGHT? BUT IF YOU LOOK AT THIS SITE, OBVIOUSLY IT HASN'T BEEN UTILIZED FOR AGRICULTURAL PURPOSES ANYTIME IN [01:55:01] THE PAST, MORE OR LESS 50 YEARS. SO WHAT WE THINK WE'RE IN, OH, THE FINAL TOPIC I WANNA ADDRESS IS WEAPONS. SO PER THE WETLAND ELIMINATION THAT WAS CONDUCTED IN THE JURISDICTIONAL DETERMINATION ISSUED BY THE UNITED STATES ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS, THERE'S APPROXIMATELY 2.79 ACRES OF WETLANDS ON THIS PROJECT SITE. AND THAT'S A JD THAT WAS ISSUED ON JANUARY 4TH, 2022. AS I INDICATED, BASED ON CONSULTATIONS WITH SCOTT LIVINGSTON, WE CERTAINLY AN EXPERT IN THAT AREA. WE SCALED BACK WHAT WE'RE ORIGINALLY PROPOSING, WHICH WAS 26 LOTS, RESERVE THAT ENTIRE BACK AREA AS WETLANDS THAT WILL NOT BE IMPACTED. AND AS A RESULT, THE ONLY WETLAND IMPACT WE'RE NOW SHOWING THIS IS RELATIVELY SMALL AREA, IT'S LIMITED TO 0.28 ACRES. WE'VE SUBMITTED PERMIT APPLICATION TO THE UNITED STATES ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS. I BELIEVE THAT WAS ON MARCH 28TH. AND I THINK WE'RE DEMONSTRATING THAT LITERALLY IS ONLY ONE 10TH OF THE WETLANDS ON THE SITE AND IT DOES CLEARLY QUALIFY FOR A NATIONWIDE PERMIT FOR THE DS FOR THE ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEER STANDARDS. SO IN CONCLUSION, WE THINK WE PROVIDED VERY EXTENSIVE EVIDENCE THAT ALLOWS YOU, NUMBER ONE, TO IDENTIFY THE RELEVANT AREAS OF ENVIRONMENTAL CONCERN AND TWO, MORE IMPORTANTLY, TAKE THE REQUIRED HARD LOOK AT THOSE IMPACTS WE'RE ASKING YOU TO CONSIDER. THIS EVENING IS DIRECTING THE PLANNING PART OF P DRAFT NEGATIVE DECLARATION FOR THE CONSIDERATION OF THIS BOARD AT THIS NEXT MEETING, I KNOW WE PRESENTED A LOT OF INFORMATION OVER THE COURSE OF THE PAST COUPLE MONTHS. IF THERE'S ANY QUESTIONS, EITHER MYSELF, CHRIS, OR KEVIN WOULD WELCOME ME AN OPPORTUNITY TO ADDRESS THEM. SO I THINK I BROUGHT UP AT THE WORK, I WAS NOT AT THE LAST MEETING, BUT THE WORK SESSION AND I'VE RECEIVED SOME INFORMAL FEEDBACK FROM THE CAB. UM, BUT THE TREE CLEARING ON THE SITE, I THINK WE NEED TO GET CREATIVE ABOUT SOME WAY TO OFFSETS. I I KNOW THAT THERE IS SOME AREA THAT YOU BLOCKED ALONG THE, THE GREEN HATCHING HERE FROM, I'M ASSUMING CLEARING, BUT ESPECIALLY FOR A SUBDIVISION, WE'RE GONNA CALL PLEASANT WOODS. IT WOULD BE GOOD IF WE COULD DO SOMETHING ABOUT THE WOODS AND THE ADDITIONAL TREES. PERHAPS RAISE THE NUMBER OF TREES THAT WE'RE PLANTING ON THE LOTS. I BELIEVE THE CODE SAYS TWO STREET TREES ARE REQUIRED WITH THESE LOTS. MANY OF THEM ARE BIGGER. I BELIEVE THEY'RE STANDARD R ONE LOTS. IF WE COULD ADD ADDITIONAL IN ADDITIONAL BEYOND THOSE TWO, MAYBE FOUR OR SIX TREES THAT I THINK COULD BE PLACED AT THE HOMEOWNER'S DISCRETION OFF THE TOWN TREE LIST. BUT I DON'T EVEN KNOW IF THAT GETS US THERE. BUT MY, MY FIRST CONCERN IS WE ARE REMOVING A LOT OF TREES. RESPECTFULLY, SOMEWHAT DISAGREE WITH MR. LIVINGSTONE THAT 20 TO 30 YEARS IS A FAIRLY MATURE, I MEAN, YOU'RE GONNA GET SOME CANOPY, YOU'RE GONNA GET SOME SHADING. IT'S A LOT DIFFERENT THAN LIKE A FIVE TO 10-YEAR-OLD TREE. SO WHILE IT'S NOT THE REDWOOD FOREST, IT'S PROVIDING SOME BENEFIT ANESTHETICS. MM-HMM . I, I RECOGNIZE THAT THERE ARE ASHTRAY OUT THERE AND THAT'S AN ISSUE. BUT WE NEED TO DO I THINK SOME SOMETHING ELSE AND PERHAPS WE CAN BE CREATIVE WITH WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT. THE SECOND CONCERN I WOULD RAISE IS, I ASKED THIS BEFORE, THAT ONE LOT IS ALMOST ENTIRELY WETLAND AND I WOULD STILL REALLY HAVE A PREFERENCE FOR DROPPING THAT LOT ENTIRELY FROM, FROM THE SITE PLAN AND REDUCING THE TOOL NUMBER BLOCKS. WE HAVE A RELATED WETLAND QUESTION. SO, UM, THE WETLAND DELINEATION, WHICH I DON'T THINK WE HAD BEFORE THE LAST MEETING, RIGHT? UM, I DON'T KNOW IF I'M GONNA TRY TO BLOW THIS UP SO THAT YOU CAN SEE THIS, BUT THE, THE WETLAND APPEARS TO BE CONTIGUOUS. AND THEN WHEN WE GET TO YOUR SITE PLAN, I DON'T KNOW IF I CAN DO THIS UP UPSIDE DOWN. THE WETLAND IS NOT THERE IN THE CORNER. SO WHERE DID THAT WETLAND GO? THAT THAT WETLAND, WHAT? THAT'S THERE. IT'S NOT ON YOUR SITE PLAN HERE. SO THERE'S, SO IN THE UM, IN THE REPORT IT APPEARS TO BE LIKE CONNECTED A FULL HORSESHOE, RIGHT? AND THEN IT BREAKS AND THEN THERE'S THIS ONE NO GOES. IT GOES LIKE THIS AROUND. IT'S ALMOST, WE HAVE TEMPORARY IMPACTS RIGHT HERE. SO ARE YOU SAYING THAT YOU WOULD HAVE DEED RESTRICTIONS? THEY CANNOT BUILD ANYTHING ON THE BACK HALF OF THIS? WELL, I'LL DRAW WHERE THE WELL LANDS GO. WELL THIS RIGHT AROUND THIS WAY AND THEN ALL THE WAY AROUND. SO HOW COME OTHER AREAS ARE BEEN LABELED AS AN IMPACT? YEAH. THERE. YES. CORRECT. WE'RE NOT IMPACTING THEM. RIGHT. GOT WAY. HOW ARE WE GONNA RESTRICT THE LANDOWNER FROM PUTTING A SHED OR A POOL? I MEAN THIS IS THE ANSWER ALL ULTIMATELY WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN KID, YOU KNOW THE ARMY CORPS IS GONNA REQUIRE CHIEF RESTRICTION. THEY WILL. IT'S A STANDARD PERMIT. SO YOU BELIEVE THAT THAT PORTION WILL BE DE RESTRICTED. WHAT YOU'RE GONNA SAME, SAME AS THIS PORTION DOWN HERE. OKAY. THANK YOU FOR CLARIFYING THAT. OH, YOU'RE WELCOME. I'M ALSO IN YOUR CAMP, BUT I'D LIKE TO LOSE LOT 13, WHICH I MENTIONED WITH THE LAST MEETING. THE ONE THAT'S LIKE ENTIRELY WETLAND. AND AGAIN, WE'VE ACKNOWLEDGED THAT COMMENT. MM-HMM . OUR [02:00:01] POSITION IS IN ORDER TO MAKE THIS WORK, GIVEN THE LAYOUT, GIVEN THE FACT THAT WE'VE ALREADY LOST A LOT OF DENSITY YEP. WE THINK THIS IS A COMPROMISE IN TERMS OF MINIMIZING WETLAND IMPACTS TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT. AL THERE IS ONE OTHER UPDATE THAT I WANNA MAKE SURE EVERYONE'S AWARE OF. CHAIRMAN CLARK, AS YOU INDICATED WHEN WE'RE HERE ON APRIL 6TH, HEARD THERE HAD BEEN SOME DISCUSSIONS YOU HAD WITH THE HIGHWAY SUPERINTENDENT AND HE'D EXPRESSED SOME CONCERNS ABOUT A CUL-DE-SAC. UH, CHRIS DID MEET WITH HIM AND IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING IT WORKED OUT THAT A CUL-DE-SAC WITH THESE STANDARDS IS ACCEPTABLE. WELL IT'S OKAY WITH HIM. IT'S OKAY WITH ME IF I MET, I MET WITH YESTERDAY AND WE ALSO ADVISED HIM BECAUSE REMEMBER HE'S RELATIVELY NEW GOING FORWARD WHEN WE HAVE A PROJECT, WE'LL SOLICIT HIS INPUT AWAY. OKAY. CAN WE GET A NOTE FROM ED BACK? YEAH. WE JUST, WE DIDN'T, WE DIDN'T GET A RESPONSE. WE JUST HAVE CHRIS'S STATEMENT SO SARAH CAN PERHAPS ASK ED FOR HIM TO RIGHT. CONCUR WITH THIS. SURE. WE SURE WE CAN GET THERE. YEAH. YEAH. BECAUSE THEN WHEN I MET WITH HIM, I TOLD HIM, I ASKED HIM WHAT'S THE BEST WAY FOR HIM TO COMMUNICATE BACK AT THE CLAIM BOARD TO RESULT OF OUR MEETING. AND HE SUGGESTED SENDING AN EMAIL TO SARAH, COPY HIM ON IT AND THEN HE WOULD REPLY. BUT OBVIOUSLY YES REPLIED TO, IT'S GENERALLY ALONG THE SAME LINES, I JUST WANNA BE SURE THAT ANYTHING ED HAS REQUESTED OR ASKED OR SPECIFIED IS COMMUNICATED TO THE ENGINEERING DEPARTMENT SO THAT IF IT'S A DIMENSION OR SOMETHING, WE VERIFY THAT ON THE FULL ENGINEER PLANS AND IN THE FIELD WHEN IT'S CONSTRUCTED BECAUSE IT IS ENGINEERING THAT GOES OUT DURING CONSTRUCTION OF LOTS. WE'LL MAKE SURE, I'M SURE YOU'RE RUNNING THIS A LOT. THE HIGHWAY SUPERINTENDENT ASSOCIATIONS HAVE BEEN TALKING FOR YEARS ABOUT AMENDING HOW TO DO CUL-DE-SACS. THEY DON'T LIKE THEM. SO WE'RE RUNNING THIS INTO A LOT OF COMMUNITIES AND CAM MAY WILL HAVE TO DEAL WITH THE HIGHWAY SUPERINTENDENT, MAKE SURE THAT IT'S ACCEPTABLE TO HIM. AND WE HAVE, AND WE HAVE SOME COMMUNITIES THAT ALLOW CUL-DE-SAC, BUT DON'T ALLOW LOTS ON THE CUL-DE-SACS. INTERESTING. WE WOULD REALLY ENJOY THAT. AND WE HAVE A, A, A VERY OLD STANDARD DETAIL IN THE TOWN OF HAMBURG BUR CUL-DE-SAC. AND WE FOUND THAT THAT'S NOTHING BUT ISSUES. AND SO WE WOULD PREFER TO DO IT SPECIFICALLY WITH THE NEEDS OF THE HIGHWAY DEPARTMENT AND, AND YOU KNOW, INCORPORATE THAT. AND CHRIS, THIS IS APPENDIX THE OF THE FIRE CODE, RIGHT? IT NEEDS THE, YEAH. THE OTHER QUESTIONS I HAVE JUST SO I CAN, IF I'M WRITING UP SEEKER DECISION IN, AND I APOLOGIZE, I HAVE NOT REVIEWED THE TRAFFIC STUDY. UH, OBVIOUSLY THE AMOUNT OF TRAFFIC BEING GENERATED IS NOT A PROBLEM HERE, BUT THEY HAVE ADEQUATE SITE DISTANCES IN BOTH DIRECTIONS. YES. RIGHT. FOR THE SPEED LIMIT ON THE ROAD. GOOD. UM, THE TOWN AS THEY BROUGHT UP, THE TOWN HAS A TREE PROTECTION LAW. THEY HAVE TO, AS PART OF THIS, WHICH GOES TO THE SEEKER ISSUE, A A TREE, A TREE CLEARING PERMIT AS PART OF THEIR APPROVAL. AND THAT'S WHY THEY'RE ASKING FOR MITIGATIONS. WE HAVE NO SPECIFIC STANDARDS. WE'VE BEEN THROUGH THIS A LOT. THERE ARE NO SPECIFIC STANDARDS FOR THAT MITIGATION. UM, BUT WHAT MITIGATION WILL BE ACCEPTABLE, THEY, THEY'RE OFFERING THE REAR YARD 20 FEET. THEY'RE OFFERING POTENTIALLY ADDITIONAL TREES ALONG THE ROAD. UH, CAITLIN AND OTHERS HAVE SUGGESTED LOSING THE ONE LOT, LEAVING THAT AS A WOODED WETLAND. UM, BUT KEEP THAT IN MIND. YOU HAVE TO ADDITIONAL TREES AND LOTS, DID YOU SAY, WHAT'S THAT? PLENTY ADDITIONAL, ADDITIONAL TREES ON THE LOT. RIGHT. ADDITIONAL FOUR TO SIX BEYOND THE STREET TREES. RIGHT. UM, AND THEN THERE WAS ONE OTHER ONE. THE TOWN DOES HAVE, AND AGAIN, WE, WE, YES, THEY ARE MEETING THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS TO GET A NATIONWIDE PERMIT. YOU ARE DOING, AND THAT GOES TO CAITLIN'S QUESTION YOU ARE DOING UNDER YOUR, YOU HAVE A WETLANDS PROTECTION LAW THAT BASICALLY SAYS YOUR OWN LAW. WE DON'T REGULATE WETLANDS, BUT WE CHARGE THE PLANNING BOARD AND THE APPLICANTS WITH MINIMIZING THE LOSS OF WETLANDS ON PROPERTIES AS WE DON'T REGULATE 'EM. WE GOT INTO THAT WHOLE DISCUSSION WITH ARMY CORPS DC, WHEN THE TOWN ADOPTED THAT LAW. BUT WE HAVE A LAW THAT SAID WE MINIMIZED JUST BECAUSE YOU MEET THE REQUIREMENTS OF ARMY CORPS OR ANYBODY ELSE, IT IS STILL THE IDEA THAT WE MINIMIZE THE LOSS. SO YOU'RE TRYING TO MINIMIZE THE LOSS. THEY HAVE TRIED TO MINIMIZE THE LOSS OF THE WETLAND, THAT'S WHY THEY AMENDED THE PLAN AND HAVE LEFT THE BACK PART OF THE SITE. BUT AGAIN, UNDER YOUR LAW, YOU HAVE TO MAKE THE DECISION THAT THEY'VE MINIMIZED THE, THAT LOSS OF WEAPONS. THOSE ARE THE ONLY COMMENTS I HAVE. I WILL AWAIT DIRECTION FROM THE PLANNING BOARD WITH ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR ISSUES THAT DEVELOPING A, AS THE APPLICANT HAS ASKED FOR, BELIEVES IT WARRANTS A NEGATIVE DECLARATION. COULD I, I JUST DO WANNA INTERJECT JUST ONE POINT AND I WANT TO MAKE IT CLEAR WHAT THE CONTEXT IS. SO WE ARE OFFERING, AS I INDICATED, THE PERMANENT OPEN SPACE IN THE BACK, THE TREE PRESERVATION ON THE REAR LOTS. WE'RE GOING TO CONSIDER THE ADDITIONAL INPUT WE HAVE, BUT ACTUALLY DID TAKE A PRETTY CLOSE LOOK AT YOUR TREE MANAGEMENT LAW. AND IT CLEARLY ACKNOWLEDGES, AND I'M GONNA READ IT'S 2 43 6 C. IF A TREE REMOVAL PERMIT IS PART OF A SITE PIT OR SUBDIVISION APPLICATION, THE FOLLOWING INFORMATION MUST BE PROVIDED. AND THEN 0.3 SAYS, IF APPROPRIATE TREES CANNOT [02:05:01] BE PRESERVED, PLANNING BOARD WILL REQUIRE THE INSTALLATION OF TWO NEW TREES PER BUILDING SITE AT LOCATIONS PRESCRIBED BY THE TOWN. TREES FOR REPLANTING SHALL BE SELECTED FROM THE TOWN OF HAMBURG SPECIES LIST AND BE A MINIMUM OF TWO AND A HALF INCHES IN CALIPER OR AS SPECIFIED. SO THERE IS A STANDARD IN THERE. YEAH, THE THE, THE STANDARD IS, LIKE I SAID, THE STANDARD IS TWO ADDITIONAL TREES BECAUSE THE LAW, THE SUBDIVISION LAW REQUIRES TWO TREES PER LOT ANYWAY. RIGHT. BUT I'M JUST SAYING RIGHT. IT WOULD BE TWO ADDITIONAL. SO I'M, I, I WILL ACKNOWLEDGE THAT I'M ASKING FOR MORE THAN THAT. MY OTHER CONCERN IS THAT WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT THE MAGNITUDE OF THE TREE CLEARING AND THE CONVERSION OF THE SEEKER, THE OTHER BURDEN THAT I'M TRYING TO MAKE SURE THAT WE HIT IS UNDER SEEKER. THAT IF WE REALLY TRULY WANNA ISSUE A NEGATIVE D RIGHT. WITH THE WETLAND AND THE TREE IMPACTS, I'M ASKING FOR MORE THAN THAT. SO THAT WE WOULD HAVE POTENTIALLY THE ABILITY, BECAUSE UNLESS WE ADEQUATELY COMPENSATE AND ADJUST FOR THOSE LOSSES, I DON'T KNOW THAT I COULD NECESSARILY, I WOULD BE INTERESTED IN LOOKING MORE. SO YOU'RE SUGGESTING A DECK, A CONDITIONAL NEGATIVE DECK? NO, NO, NO, NO. NOT A CONDITIONAL AGREEMENT. NO, BECAUSE IT WOULD BE PART OF THE SITE PLAN. . ALRIGHT. I I THINK THERE WERE RARE OCCASIONS WHERE THEY'LL BOTH JUMP. I HATE CONDITIONAL. I DON'T THAT'S WHAT I SAID. BUT THAT, SO MY SUGGESTION IS NOT, IS THAT THE PLAN IS AMENDED SUCH THAT IT DOESN'T NEED CONDITIONS ADDED, BUT THAT IT IS PART OF THE DESIGN. WE AGREE. SO YOU AVOID CONDITION NECK DECK, THEY CHANGE THE PLAN BASED ON, SAY, BASED UPON YOUR COMMENT. SO THAT WAY YOU DON'T HAVE TO PUT CONDITION, THE PLAN REPRESENTS THE NEGATIVE DECK. YOU DO A CONDITION. NECK. NECK, YOU GOTTA PUBLISH THE NOTICE. YOU GOTTA RIGHT. YOU GOTTA WAIT 30 DAYS. YOU GOTTA THEN MAKE A DECISION AGAIN. IT'S JUST AN AWKWARD, IT'S AWKWARD. YOU'D RATHER JUST HAVE TO CHANGE THE PLAN. ALRIGHT. SO I MEAN WITH THAT BEING SAID, IF THIS BOARD WOULD AUTHORIZE FOR PLAN DEPARTMENT TO AT LEAST PREPARE A DRAFT NEGATIVE DECLARATION, WE CAN'T MAKE THAT DECISION THIS EVENING. THE OWNER'S NOT HERE, BUT WE COULD CERTAINLY TAKE THAT INPUT BACK TO THE OWNER AND COME BACK NEXT TIME. OBVIOUSLY IT REALLY DOESN'T CHANGE THE LAYOUT MUCH. IT'S MAKING AN ADDITIONAL EQUIPMENT RELATIVE TO TREES. I THINK, I THINK WE WOULD NEED TO SEE A REVISED LAYOUT WITH, OR A WRITTEN COMMITMENT TO WHAT YOU CAN COMMIT TO BEFORE. YES, WE WOULD BE WILLING TO DRAFT AN, I MEAN FOR ME, I RECOGNIZE THAT YOU'VE BEEN HERE BEFORE. I MEAN WE CAN DRAFT, WE DON'T HAVE TO VOTE ON IT WITHOUT THAT. WELL THAT'S WHAT I'M, WE CAN'T VOTE ON IT WITHOUT THAT. I MEAN WE COULD CERTAINLY HAVE CAITLIN, WE COULD CERTAINLY HAVE THAT WRITTEN COMMITMENT BEFORE THE DEADLINE FOR YOUR NEXT MEETING. I MEAN, IS THAT SUFFICIENT? I MEAN, THAT'S MY OTHER QUESTION. THE REST OF THE BOARD IS WE'RE CLEARING ALMOST 10 ACRES. THERE'S THE WETLAND IMPACTS. ARE THERE OTHER THINGS WE WANT, IF WE WANNA SAY THAT THERE IS NO ADVERSE ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT FROM MY MIND, THE BIGGEST ISSUE, THE TREES AND THE, AND THE REMOVAL OF THE ONE LOT. IS THAT ENOUGH? WOULD THAT BE ENOUGH? AND I DON'T THINK THEY HAVE TO BE FAIR. I DON'T THINK THEY'VE AGREED TO THE LOT. NO, NONE. THEY HAVE LOT THE, THE LOCK OF THE PROJECT. FIRST OF ALL, WE HAVEN'T EVEN OPENED THE PUBLIC HEARING YET. OH, RIGHT. I THOUGHT BEFORE WE DECIDE WHAT ARE WE, YES, WE'RE HAVING A PUBLIC HEARING TODAY. SO BEFORE WE REALLY SAY WHERE OUR LINES ARE, WE PROBABLY SHOULD HEAR FROM RESIDENTS. YES. YES. YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT RESOLUTIONS ALREADY. THAT'S WHY I WAS, I YEAH, YOU'RE RIGHT. OKAY. OKAY. YEP. THE, THE CAR I BROUGHT UP. SO THAT'S WHAT I, THE OTHER THING, I DON'T KNOW IF WHAT CAME UP BEFORE IS WE HAD TALKED TO THINK BILL HAD BROUGHT UP, UH, SIDEWALKS AND INTERCONNECTION TOWARDS THE VILLAGE AND INTERCONNECTING AT PLEASANT. AND I'M NOT RECALLING IT, IT'S HARD TO SEE ON THE SITE PLAN I HAVE WHETHER OR NOT THERE ARE SIDEWALKS ON THAT PART OF PLEASANT. THERE'S AND, AND WHETHER OR NOT WE WANTED ANY SIDEWALKS IN THE OR THAT WAS CONSIDERATION. THEY END RIGHT THERE. AND I WALKED OVER HERE AND MY GOODNESS, WAS THAT A DANGEROUS WALK? AND NOT ONLY THAT, IT'S IT'S DITCHES. YEAH. BECAUSE THERE IS NO SPACE. THE ZELLE SIDEWALK DITCH DOWN SCREEN. CORRECT. AND NEXT DOWNHILL IT IS MR. T YOU WANNA SHOW THE OTHER YEAH, YEAH. WE HAVE THE GRAPHICS THROUGH. RIGHT? YEAH. IT DROPS OFF PRETTY GOOD. ONCE YOU GET TO THE EDGE OF THE PAVEMENT, IT DROPS OFF. YEAH. AND THEN THERE'S, YOU HAVE THE PARK NEXT DOOR AND ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE PARK, IS THAT WHERE THE ALL THE AIRHART PROPOSAL WAS? THAT WAS IN FRONT OF US. A COUPLE. A COUPLE OVER, YEAH. YEAH. THAT'S A VETERINARY CLINIC. RIGHT. SO THAT'S, THAT'S A LONG WAY FROM THE SIDEWALK THEN, BECAUSE THAT ONE ALSO HAS NO SIDEWALK. RIGHT? YEAH. SIDEWALKS WOULD BE LOVELY BECAUSE IT'S A VERY DANGEROUS WALK, BUT IT'S ALSO VERY, VERY TIGHT IN THE DITCHES AND JUST IN THIS LIKE GENERAL AREA CAN'T MEET, UH, STANDARDS FOR A SIDEWALK WITH THAT DITCH. I DON'T THINK YOU NEED TO HAVE A CERTAIN AMOUNT ON THE SIDEWALK, THE ROAD AND THERE'S NOT SPACE THERE. SO, UM, I MEAN MAYBE, YEAH, I MEAN I WAS ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE STREET, SO MAYBE ON THEIR SIDE IT'S BETTER. BUT THE OTHER SIDE IT'S FAULT. NO, THAT'S OUR SIDE'S WORSE. IT'S WORSE. SO IS THE PROPERTY, IF YOU DID A SIDEWALK AT THE BOTTOM, THEN IT WOULD NEVER CONNECT ANYWHERE. MM-HMM. THE LOT THAT IS LOCATED LOT 22. DO THEY OWN ALL THE FRONTAGE OR IS THERE HOA LAND ALONG THAT STEEP SLOPE? AND IS THERE ANYTHING WE'RE DOING TO COMMIT, TO [02:10:01] MAINTAIN VEGETATION TO KEEP THAT SLOPE STABLE? THEY, THEY OWN THE FRONT AND THE MAJORITY CLOSE BACK DOOR. THE MAJORITY OF THAT SLOPE IS IN THE RIGHT OF WAY. UM, THAT GOES DOWN TO LIKE, LIKE BOARD MEMBER MENTIONED A, A DITCH. SO THE MOST OF THE, MOST OF THAT SLOPE IS IN THE RIGHT OF WAY. AND I'M ASSUMING THAT THEY FRONT MOW IT. I MEAN IT'S PART OF THEIR YARD. JUST AS A SIMPLE QUESTION, IS THERE ANY, IF I LIVE IN THE, THE SUBDIVISION OF ANY WAY FOR ME TO GET INTO THE PARK NEXT DOOR WITHOUT WALKING OUT TO THE ROAD AND ALL THE WAY AROUND OR WHATEVER. THERE'S NO REAL, I THOUGHT WE WERE DOING SOMETHING IN THE BACK OF THAT. WHAT'S THAT? WHERE YOU HAVE THE RIGHT OF WAY TO WELL IF, BUT YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO GET TO THAT. I DON'T WANNA HAVE TO WALK THROUGH THESE PEOPLE'S LOTS. WE DO HAVE THIS, THIS EASEMENT HERE, BUT THAT'S ACCESS TO THE, TO THE POND. UM, ABOUT HERE, I'D HAVE TO, OVER THE ACCESS, I'D STEP THE PARK. I'D HAVE TO GET SOME WAY TO THAT ACCESS BETWEEN LOTS, WHATEVER IT IS. YOU'D HAVE TO HAVE AN ACCESS WAY BETWEEN LOTS. UH, 21, UH, NO, 12 AND 11. LIKE I'VE SEEN THOSE IN OTHER SUBDIVISIONS WHERE YOU HAVE AN ACCESS, YOU WALK BACK AND THEN WALK THROUGH HERE IN THE PARK. AND WHETHER THAT'S WHAT THE TOWN WANTS, I'LL HAVE TO ASK, I DUNNO, ONE PEOPLE WALKING INTO THE PARK AT THAT, THEY DON'T FREQUENT THAT FAR. I THINK THEY'RE FINE. I THINK THAT'D BE NICE. I MEAN, I THINK IT WOULD BE NICE TO HAVE A CONNECTION IF THERE'S A NEIGHBORHOOD LARGER LOTS KIDS WANNA WALK OVER THERE, ESPECIALLY SINCE THE ROAD IS DANGEROUS, HAVING A COUNTRY. RIGHT. YOU WOULDN'T, WOULDN'T WANT GO TO, YOU WOULDN'T WANT HIM TO GO TO PLEASANT AROUND BECAUSE NO, YOU DON'T WANT TAKE A LOOK AT THAT. IF THERE'S A WAY TO GET INTO THE PARK, IF THERE'S A PLACE TO GET INTO THE PARK, I THINK IT'D BE A SELLING POINT FOR THE SUBDIVISION THAT CAN WALK INTO THE PARK. GONE. UNLESS YOU ON THE LOTS. RIGHT. UNLESS YOU REMOVE EXACTLY. THE TEAM'S THE PERFECT WALKING PATH. I MEAN, I THINK WE CAN ALL AGREE THAT WAS A TOPIC ACTUALLY THAT CHAIRMAN, THE ORIGINAL PRESENTATION DIDN'T COME UP LAST MONTH. I DON'T THINK IT'S A SECRET ISSUE. I THINK WE AGREED LAST TIME, BUT IT'S CERTAINLY SOMETHING WE'LL TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION BEFORE WE MOVE FORWARD. CAN I ASK ONE MORE QUESTION? I'M SORRY TO LIKE KEEP EATING YOU DEAD HORSE HERE. UM, SO I READ THE TRAFFIC STUDY, THE TRAFFIC SUMMARY, RIGHT? NO ONE GET UPSET SUMMARY, NOT A STUDY SUMMARY. UM, OKAY. SO IT'S OBVIOUSLY NOT GONNA BECOME A MAJOR IMPACT BECAUSE IT'S NOT A HUNDRED. RIGHT? RIGHT. BUT IT SAYS THAT THE PEAK HOURS WOULD HAVE A MAXIMUM OF 14 TRIPS. AND IF THERE'S 22 HOUSES WITH AN AVERAGE OF TWO CARS PER HOUSE, THAT'S 44 CARS. SO WHERE ARE PEOPLE NOT GOING? LIKE HOW DID, IT'S JUST 14 SEEMS VERY CURIOUS TO ME WHEN YOU'RE LIKE ADDING 44 NEW THINGS. BUT THAT, THAT'S IN ONE PEAK HOUR. YEAH. TO ONE HOUR. YOU COULD HAVE 14 IN THIS HOUR. YOU COULD HAVE 14 IN THIS HOUR AND YOU COULD HAVE 14 IN THIS HOUR. OKAY. YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? IT'S, IT'S NOT, EVERYBODY'S NOT GONNA COME AND GO WITH THE EXACT SAME PEAK HOUR. I TOTALLY GET THAT. AND THAT'S HOW NEW YORK STATE DEPARTMENTS AND THAT'S BASED ON IT MANUAL, WHICH IS THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF STUDIES. RIGHT. SO FOR A SUBDIVISION THIS SIZE, IT DOESN'T GENERATE, THAT'S WHY IT DOESN'T WARRANT A TRAFFIC STUDY BECAUSE THE TRAFFIC STUDY, THE NUMBERS ARE SO INCONSEQUENTIAL. SURE. WHAT I'M MOST CONCERNED ABOUT, AND THAT'S WHAT I ASKED ABOUT, IS JUST GETTING IN AND OUT BECAUSE MOST PEOPLE ARE GONNA, IF YOU PUT A DRIVEWAY IN AN AREA WHERE YOU DON'T HAVE SITE DISTANCE, THAT'S GONNA BE A PROBLEM. YES. YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT LIKE PEOPLE ARE GONNA GONNA STACK THERE. THEY'RE JUST GONNA COME OUT IF THEY CAN SEE BOTH WAYS, THEY MAY HAVE TO WAIT A MINUTE OR WHATEVER AND THEN THEY MAKE THEIR LEFT OUT OF THE SITE. RIGHT. AND THEN, AND THEN THAT'S WHY WE PLACED THE CONNECTION TO THE, THE ROAD KIND OF WHERE WE DID. RIGHT. UM, AGAIN, IT'S PERPENDICULAR TO THAT, TO THAT GRAY CHANGE THAT CAITLYN POINTED OUT. AND IT'S ALSO AS FAR AWAY FROM THAT CURVE AS WE CAN GET IT AND ALSO MAKE, YOU KNOW, THESE TWO LOTS VIABLE ANDROID COMES IN A 90 DEGREE ANGLE. RIGHT. THANK YOU FOR EXPLAINING. YOU'RE WELCOME. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS BEFORE WE BEGIN? THE PUBLIC HEARING NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN THAT THE CROWN OF HAMMER PLANNING BOARD WILL CONDUCT A PUBLIC HEARING ON THE 22 LOT SUBDIVISION PROPOSED BY ESSEX HOMES TO BE LOCATED ON VACANT LAND NORTH SIDE OF PLEASANT AVENUE, WEST OF 36 46 PLEASANT AVENUE. ON THE HEARING, WE HELD MAY 4TH, 2022 AT 7:00 PM ROOM SEVEN B OF THE DENVER TOWN HALL. ALRIGHT, AT THIS TIME I'M GONNA OPEN UP THE PUBLIC HEARING FOR ESSEX HOMES. ANYONE HERE WANTED TO SPEAK ABOUT THIS PROJECT? LET JUST COME UP AND STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD. THANK YOU. HI, MY NAME IS LEON TWO FOUR ROAD. DO YOU MIND COMING UP NEXT TO THE MICROPHONE SO WE CAN MAKE SURE YOU GET RECORDED ON THE RECORD? AND WHO'S THE SECOND TURN? TAKING [02:15:01] THE MINUTES? UH, WE HAVE A RECORDING AND SARAH TYPES UP THE MINUTES. I'M HAPPY HERE. WE'LL TAKE THAT FOR YOU AND YOU CAN OKAY. I'M JUST GONNA NEED SOMETHING. UM, THE OWNER, JUST FOR THE RECORD, ARE, ARE THESE COMMENTS FROM THE CONSERVATION BOARD OR THEY'RE PERSONAL? YES, THEY'RE, THEY'RE, OH, FROM, FROM THE CONSERVATION BOARD? MM-HMM . OKAY. THAT'S IMPORTANT FOR THE RECORD, RIGHT? YES. THE HAMBURGER CONSERVATION. NOW I SHOULD SAY THESE ARE OUR INITIAL COMMENTS. UM, UM, MORE INFORMATION TO FOLLOW LATER ABOUT THAT. THE CONSERVATION BOARD SUPPORTS THE RECOMMENDATION MADE BY PLANNING BOARD CHAIRMAN BILL CLARK AT THE APRIL 6TH, 2022 PLANNING BOARD MEETING THAT ESSEX HOMES PLAN FEATURING A CUL-DE-SAC BE DESIGNATED AS A PRIVATE ROAD, WHICH WOULD BE MAINTAINED PRIVATELY. UM, THE HAMBURG, UH, THE CONSERVATION ADVISORY BOARD SUPPORTS THE CONCEPT THAT CUL-DE-SACS BE DESIGNATED AS PRIVATE ROADS. HAMBURG UH, CONSERVATION ADVISORY BOARDS HAS CONCERNS ABOUT THE STORMWATER RUNOFF TOWARD THE WETLAND AND THE HOUSING DEVELOPMENT. BEYOND STORMWATER MAINTENANCE SYSTEMS SUCH AS RETENTION AND DETENTION PONDS NEED TO BE MONITORED PERMANENTLY FOR WATER, CHEMICAL CONTAMINANTS, STRUCTURE, INTEGRITY, AND UNIFICATION. IF THIS DEVELOPMENT WAS ON A PRIVATE ROAD, THE MONITORING AND MANAGING MIGHT BE DONE BY AN HOA. THE CONSERVATION ADVISORY BOARD RECOMMENDS TREE PRESERVATION AND PLANTING NATIVE TREES AND SHRUBS USING THE TOWN TREE LIST. THE CONSERVATION ADVISORY BOARD SUGGESTS BEST PRACTICES IN ESTABLISHING LAWNS TO REDUCE THE NEED FOR FUTURE COSMETIC LAWN TREATMENT. CONSTRUCTION SHOULD BE AS ECOLOGICALLY FRIENDLY AS POSSIBLE, INCLUDING SUCH THINGS AS OPTIMUM INSULATION, BEST ENERGY PERFORMING HEATING AND COOLING SYSTEM, REDUCING IMPERVIOUS SERVICES ON ROADS, DRIVEWAYS, SIDEWALKS, PATIOS, SUPPORT, SOLAR, UH, SUPPORT, SOLAR PANEL INSTALLATION, AND USE LED LIGHTING. THAT'S IT. GREAT. I JUST WANNA MAKE A COMMENT ON THE PRIVATE ROAD ISSUE 'CAUSE SOME PEOPLE GET CONFUSED OVER WHO HAS THE AUTHORITY TO DO WHAT. THE TOWN BOARD ACCEPTS THE ROADS, THEY DECIDE WHETHER OR NOT A ROAD IS GONNA BE PUBLIC OR PRIVATE. AND WE CAN CERTAINLY GIVE A RECOMMENDATION ONE WAY OR ANOTHER. BUT AS WE DISCUSSED EARLIER, UH, MY COMMENT WAS BASED ON DISCUSSIONS WITH THE HIGHWAY SUPERINTENDENT AND I DON'T KNOW HOW THE OTHER BOARD MEMBERS FEEL, BUT IF THE HIGHWAY SUPERINTENDENT ISN'T GONNA MAKE THAT RECOMMENDATION, I WOULD MAKE IT JOINTLY WITH THE HIGHWAY SUPERINTENDENT, BUT I DON'T FEEL COMFORTABLE MAKING IT WITHOUT THE HIGHWAY SUPERINTENDENT. AND CAMMY, YOU WANT TO CLEAR ON THE RECORD TOO, THAT THAT POND WILL BE OWNED AND MAINTAINED BY THE HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION. SO THEY'LL BE RESPONSIBLE FOR IT. THERE STILL NEEDS TO BE AN HOA BECAUSE THE STORMWATER POND IS MAINTAINED BY THE, THE OWNERSHIP, NOT THE TEMP. RIGHT. SO ANY PROBLEMS WITH THAT POND AS IT FILLS IN AND WHATEVER, AND THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE HOMEOWNER ASSOCIATION TO CLEAN IT OUT, MAKE SURE IT'S WORKING PROPERLY IN THE FUTURE. NOT NOW. THERE COULD BE SAMPLING REQUIREMENTS OF OUTFALLS AND THAT WILL BE FALLING ON THE HOMEOWNERS ASSOCI AT THIS POINT. THE ACCESS THE TOWN HAS IS IN A CASE OF EMERGENCIES, IF SOMETHING FAILED IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT, THEY'RE NOT CALLING THE HOMEOWNERS A ASSOCI. THEY'RE GONNA CALL THE HIGHWAY DEPARTMENT OR WHATEVER. IF THEY HAVE TO GO OUT AND FIX SOME PROBLEM IN EMERGENCY, THEY WILL BACK CHARGE AND THEY HAVE TO GET THROUGH THAT EASEMENT AND THEY WILL BACK CHARGE. THE HOMEOWNER ASSOCIATION IS MY UNDERSTANDING. YES. BUT ALSO IF, IF THE HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION ENTIRELY FAILS IN MAINTAINING RIGHT. AND IT'S BECOMING A DRAINAGE ISSUE THAT IS IMPACTING THE TOWN, THE TOWN CAN GO ON ADDRESS THE ISSUE, BUT AGAIN, THEY BACK CHARGE. RIGHT. THAT'S AN EASEMENT. IT'S HOME BY HOMEOWNER. SO THAT, THAT'S A CLEAR THAT THAT IS THE RESPONSIBILITY. NOW WHAT BILL AND YOU GUYS WERE ALSO TALKING ABOUT IS THE ROAD, THE ROAD IS A DECISION BY THE TOWN. WHAT BOARD DO THEY TAKE IT AS? GUESS? I, I MEAN IF I, I SAY HOW PEOPLE GET CONFUSED OVER WHO DOES WHAT, RIGHT. WE'RE PART OF THE TOWN. I SAY THE TOWN MAKES THE DECISION. IF THEY SEE HOW THEY'D BE CONFUSING, BOARD TOWN BOARD WILL MAKE THAT DECISION. YEAH. ONCE THE ROAD IS CONSTRUCTION, IT'S OFFERED FOR DEDICATION, CAN BE REVIEWS IT AND THEN BASICALLY THE TOWN BOARD THEN DECIDES ON THE ACCEPTANCE. I ALWAYS TELL TOWN BOARDS IF THERE'S ANY REASON WHY THEY'RE NOT GONNA ACCEPT THIS ROAD, PLEASE LET THE APPLICANT KNOW AHEAD OF TIME BECAUSE IT'S DESIGNED DIFFERENTLY. THERE ARE NO RIGHT OF WAYS AND WHATEVER. SO IF THAT IS SOMETHING THAT THE TOWN BOARD, WE HAVEN'T SEEN THAT [02:20:01] IN RECENT PAST THAT THE TOWN BOARD DOESN'T ACCEPT ROADS. BUT IF THEY CHANGE POLICIES, THEN THEY WOULD NEED TO LET THE APPLICANT KNOW SOONER IN THE DESIGN PROCESS THAT THEY'RE NOT GONNA BE ACCEPTING THAT ROAD. SO, SO JUST DO, DO WE HAVE A DETAILED PLAN FOR THE HOMEOWNERS TO MONITOR AND MANAGE THE, UM, DETENTION SYSTEM OR THE THAT WOULD BE IN THE STORMWATER PLAN THAT THEY PREPARE AND YOU REVIEW AND APPROVE MAINTENANCE AND INSPECTION FOR LONG TERM OF ALL STORMWATER FACILITIES HAS TO BE PUT TOGETHER BY THE STATE, UM, DEVELOPER. YES. AND THE STATE OF NEW YORK HAS TO APPROVE THE HOMEOWNER ASSOCIATION. LET'S GET BACK TO THE PUBLIC HEARING. I'M AND THEY TRY TO, I'M SORRY. THEY TRY TO UH, THEY TRY TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE'S ENOUGH MONEY TO MAKE SURE ALL THOSE THINGS ARE BEING DONE CORRECTLY. I TRY. THERE HAS TO BE A CERTIFIED BY HAS TO BE CERTIFIED. RIGHT. THANK YOU. SORRY BILL. GO AHEAD. THANK YOU. SO WE HAVE SOME COMMENTS ONLINE. OKAY. IT'S UHM I'M GONNA GO HERE FIRST. UH, ANYBODY ELSE HERE WANTS TO SPEAK ABOUT THE ESSEX HOMES PROJECT? COME UP AND STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD. WE'LL NEED THE ADDRESS. UM, MARK LKE, UH, CHAIRMAN OF THE HAM CONSERVATION ADVISORY BOARD. I WOULD JUST LIKE, BEFORE WE MOVE FORWARD WITH THIS PROJECT, THAT WE HAD SOME ISSUES REGARDING, UH, COMMUNICATIONS WITH SARAH. UH, WE NEVER GOT ANY, UH, PLANS, DETAILED PLANS REVOLVING THE SEEKER. HOLD ON. THERE'S A PUBLIC HEARING ON A SPECIFIC PROJECT IF YOU HAVE ISSUES WITH ADMINISTRATIVE. OKAY, I'LL PUT THIS, THIS IS NOT THE FORUM. OKAY THEN. OKAY. I WOULD LIKE YOU TO TABLE ANY DECISIONS UNTIL THE CONSERVATION ADVISORY BOARD WE'RE NOT MAKING A DECISION HAS. OKAY. SO WHEN WE GET THIS BACK, A FULL REPORT BACK TO YOU. HAVE A GOOD NIGHT. NOW I'M, YOU KNOW WHAT, HOLD ON. MARK AND I, I DO HAVE ONE MORE COMMENT. OH, I'M, PLEASE DON'T SEND ANY MORE EMAILS THAT VIOLATE THE OPEN MEETINGS LOT TO ME WAS AN EMAIL. YOU SENT ME AN EMAIL THIS MORNING. THERE WAS A TEXT. NO, YOU SENT ME AN EMAIL THIS MORNING. YOU WANT ME TO SEND? NO, NO, WE'RE DONE. GOT. ALRIGHT, WE'RE DONE WITH THIS. CAN I READ THE COMMENTS WE HAVE ONLINE? YES, PLEASE. ADDITIONAL COMMENTS FROM MR. SAM SUAREZ. I'M GONNA TRY AND GIVE YOU AN ORDER, BUT FACEBOOK IS NOT SORTING THEM IN CHRONOLOGICAL ORDER. UH, RESPECT TO YOUR PROJECT IN PROTECTING THE WETLANDS. UM, WAIT, SO THE TREES AND WETLANDS ARE THE ISSUE. WHAT ABOUT THE ANIMALS THAT WOULD BE DISPLACED? UH, PRETTY MATURE TREE. NO CONTEXT. UM, AND I WORRY ABOUT ALL THE ANIMALS BEING DISPLACED AND HAVING NOWHERE TO GO. HAMBURG IS SLOWLY BECOMING WHAT WEST SENECA HAS BECOME WITH DEER ALL OVER AND NOWHERE TO GO AND ARE ALWAYS IN EVERYONE'S YARDS. AND I BELIEVE, LET ME REFRESH THAT IS ALL OF THEM. I WILL TRY AND I DON'T KNOW IF YOU CAN PULL THIS UP, BUT I CAN SCREENSHOT THESE TO SARAH. I GOT IT. OKAY. ALRIGHT. UH, ANY OTHER COMMENTS ABOUT THE ESSEX HOMES PROJECT? SURE. SO, KA HOLD ON, BOB. LET'S, LET'S FINISH THE PUBLIC HEARING. OKAY. SO BEING NO MORE COMMENTS, I, AT THIS TIME, I'LL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING. I, I APOLOGIZE. KA SO YOU'RE SAYING THAT THIS DESIGN, BECAUSE IT'S EITHER HOME, UH, HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION OR IT'S GONNA BE TOWN MAINTAIN NO. WHAT? NO, NO. IT HAS TO BE HOME. NO, THIS, THE TOWN WILL BE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE, THE, THE ROAD. RIGHT. SO LIKE IT, THAT'S WHERE THE HIGHWAY SUPERINTENDENT WAS INCLUDED? YES. AND THEY PLOW AND AND SO ON. AND IF THE ROAD, WHEN THE ROAD PAVEMENT, YEAH, THEY DO ALL THE REPAIRS, THEY WOULD DO THAT TO THE TOP. RIGHT. BECAUSE THAT'S WHY THE SUPERINTENDENTS WELL, YES, BOB. BOB. SO HOLD ON. I TALKED TO ED GENERALLY ABOUT CUL-DE-SACS AND HE, THAT THEY'RE DIFFICULT TO PLOW AND HE, AND HE EXPRESSED ISSUES WITH THAT. AND I SAID THERE'S AN EASY SOLUTION. WE JUST ASKED THE TOWN NOT TO ACCEPT ANY MORE ROADS WITH CUL TO EX. SO THAT'S WHY I MADE THAT COMMENT THE LAST TIME THIS CAME UP. YEAH. NOW, IF HE'S OKAY WITH IT, USUALLY THE TOWN ACCEPTS THE ROADS AS, AS DREW SAID, IF WE'RE NOT GONNA ACCEPT THE ROADS, WE SHOULD TELL PEOPLE AHEAD OF TIME, WHICH IS WHY I KIND OF BROUGHT IT UP AT THAT MEETING. SO IT COULD BE EXPLORED THEN RATHER THAN THEM FINDING OUT AFTER WE DO ALL THE WORK ON IT. UM, SO THAT'S, THAT'S HOW WE GOT HERE. THAT'S GENERALLY WE DON'T BRING HIM IN, BUT BECAUSE IN THE PAST HE'S MADE A COMMENT ABOUT CUL-DE-SACS. THAT'S WHY I TALKED. NO, THAT'S OKAY. NO, BECAUSE THE DESIGN, I WANNA, I WANNA MAKE SURE IT'S, YEAH, IT'S CLEAR. NO, IT'S CLEAR. BECAUSE THE DESIGN WOULD BE, AND I UNDERSTAND YOUR POINT. YEAH. BECAUSE I KNOW THERE'S A CUL-DE-SAC WHERE IT'S HOME, IT'S A HOMEOWNER ASSOCIATION. THE TOWN DON'T MAINTAIN IT AND THEY WOULDN'T, 'CAUSE THEY [02:25:01] SAID ACCORDING TO THE CODE OFFICERS AND THE ENGINEERING, IT'S DESIGNED DIFFERENTLY, IT WOULD HAVE TO BE RE, RE-DEVELOPED. THAT IS PROBABLY A PRIVATE ROAD IN THAT CASE. CORRECT? CORRECT. AND IN THAT CASE, WHEN IT WAS APPROVED, IT WAS ALLOWED TO VARY FROM THE ESTABLISHED ROADWAY STANDARDS THAT THE TOWN HAS. SO THERE WAS A TIME WHEN THAT WAS A COMMON PRACTICE. OKAY. PEOPLE WOULD COME IN AND SAY, NO, WE DON'T WANT IT TO BE PUBLIC ROAD. IT'S GONNA BE, YOU KNOW, OFTEN IT'S A SMALL GROUP OF HOUSES. EVERYTHING IS THEREFORE PRIVATE AND THEY'RE RESPONSIBLE FOR IT. OF COURSE, NOW THAT THOSE SYSTEMS ARE AGING AND THOSE ROADS NEED WORK, SOME ARE COMING TO THE TOWN TO HAVE DISCUSSIONS ABOUT HOW TO MAKE IT PUBLIC AND SO ON. CORRECT. YEAH. THIS IS BEING DESIGNED AS A PUBLIC ROAD. SO IT HAS TO HAPPEN RIGHT OF WAY. IT HAS TO MEET ALL THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE TOWN STANDARDS, WHICH ENGINEER LOOKS AT WHEN WE GET FULLY ENGINEERED PLAN IS IS BILL, YOU POINTED OUT THAT THE CHANGING THAT SYSTEM HIGHWAY SUPERINTENDENT INVOLVED, THAT'S THE WAY IT'S DESIGNED. I DON'T KNOW IF THEY'RE CHANGING IT OR NOT. I KNOW THAT THE CONVERSATIONS HAPPENED, IT SEEMS TO ME, BASED ON CHRIS'S REPRESENTATION FROM HIS CONVERSATION WITH ED, IS THAT THEY'RE NOT GONNA CHANGE IT. WELL, YEAH, THE WAY I LEFT IT WITH HIM IS WE WOULD DO IT ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS. OKAY. SO IF WE HAVE A DIFFERENT SUBDIVISION TWO WEEKS FROM NOW, IT, IT MAY BE A DIFFERENT SITUATION DEPENDING ON IF IT'S WIDE ENOUGH TO GET A LOOP AROUND OR IT'S PROBABLY THE BEST WAY TO DO IT. YEAH. I I ALSO WANTED TO MAKE ONE POINT CLEAR BECAUSE I THINK THERE'S A LITTLE BIT OF CONFUSION IN LIGHT OF THE MEMO FROM THE CONSERVATION ADVISORY BOARD. THE INFRASTRUCTURE ON THIS SITE IS PUBLIC. I THINK WE ACKNOWLEDGE IT. WE'RE WE'RE SHOWING A PUBLIC ROAD THAT MEETS ALL THE SPECS AS CAMMY INDICATES. SHE WILL HAVE TO VERIFY THAT. BUT SECONDLY, THAT'S NOT WHAT'S DRIVING THE HOMEOWNER'S ASSOCIATION. THE, THE CAB MEMO SUGGESTS WE NEED A PRIVATE ROAD TO HAVE THE HOMEOWNER'S ASSOCIATION. WE'RE STILL DOING A HOMEOWNER'S ASSOCIATION BECAUSE THAT'S THE ENTITY THAT WILL OWN AND HAVE LONG TERM MAINTENANCE RESPONSIBILITIES FOR THE STORM WATER MANAGEMENT AREA ON THE BACK OF THE SITE. THERE'S TWO REASONS FOR THAT. SOME INSTANCES THAT WAS DONE BY TOWNS HISTORICALLY. AND SECONDLY, IN MANY INSTANCES THAT WAS SHARED ACROSS SEVERAL LOTS. AND YOU'D GET THIS SITUATION WHERE YOU HAVE FIVE LOTS, THEY ALL TOUCH POND. IT REQUIRES MAINTENANCE. AND GUESS WHAT? SOMEONE'S NOT GONNA PAY FOR IT. THERE'S DISAGREEMENTS. SO HAMBURG, JUST LIKE MANY MUNICIPALITIES IN WEST NEWARK SAID, WE'RE NOT DEALING WITH THAT ANYMORE. YOU'RE GONNA FORM A HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION REGARDLESS OF WHETHER YOU HAVE PUBLIC INFRASTRUCTURE. OBVIOUSLY IT'S AN ADDITIONAL EXPENSE, AN ADDITIONAL BURDEN FOR THE DEVELOPER. BUT WE'RE LEFT DOING THAT AND WE'LL BE DOING THAT. I THINK THE OTHER POINT THAT I THINK CAMMY CLARIFIED PROBABLY TWO YEARS AGO, WHEREVER NOW THAT WHILE THE TOWN IS NOT MAINTAINING THE POND, I THINK THIS GETS A QUESTION. THEY DO HAVE THE RIGHT, IF YES, THE HOA FAILS TO COMPLY AND MAINTAIN THAT UNDER THE WAY THE NEW AGREEMENTS ARE BEING WRITTEN. WE HAVE PERMISSION TO COME ON SITE TO COME BACK TO MAINTAIN THE POND AND THEN BILL BACK THE HOA YES. AND, AND RECOUP THAT IN THE UNFORTUNATE EVENT THAT'S NOT PROPERLY MAINTAINED. AND I THINK THAT WAS ONE OF THE LEGACY ISSUES THAT CAMMIE SPENT. DID I GET THAT RIGHT? YES, THAT IS CORRECT. AND THAT, THAT CHANGED ABOUT OVER 25 YEARS AGO WHEN I CAME WITH THE TOWN, THEY JUST CHANGED THAT POLICY. THEY USED TO TAKE OWNERSHIP OF ALL THOSE PODS, RIGHT. AND THEY SAID, THIS IS RIDICULOUS. WE DON'T WANNA OWN ALL THESE PODS. SO THEY BASICALLY NOW REQUIRE THEM TO BE, THEY HAVE STANDARDS. CAN WE MAKE SURE THAT THEY'RE, THAT THEY'RE ALL HOMEOWNER ASSOCIATIONS NOW. AND THEN THE, THEN THE TOWN WOULD HAVE THE RIGHT, SO IF CAMMY NEEDED TO GO THERE AND INSPECT, SHE COULD WALK DOWN THE EASEMENT TO THE DRAINAGE TO LOOK AT THE POND AND CONFIRM THAT IT'S OPERATING APPROPRIATELY. RIGHT. OR GET EQUIPMENT IN. GET EQUIPMENT IN. AND JUST SO YOU'RE AWARE, UH, THE TOWN'S STORMWATER PERMIT ALSO REQUIRES THAT THE TOWN CHECK WITH PRIVATE HOMEOWNERS ON A CERTAIN REGULAR BASIS TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY'RE DOING THIS WORK. AND THE STATE AND THE EPA ARE ACTUALLY CRACKING DOWN ON THAT A GREAT DEAL. THE ENGINEERING DEPARTMENT JUST SENT OUT A BUNCH OF LETTERS TO PRIVATE OWNERS OF THINGS LIKE PONDS TELLING THEM THAT, YOU KNOW, THEIR POND HAS BEEN IN PLACE FOR YEARS AND WE NEED SOMEONE TO CERTIFY IT TO MAKE SURE IT'S STILL RUNNING AS DESIGNED. SO THIS SITE WOULD BE UNDER THAT SAME REQUIREMENT, LIKELY LIKE FIVE YEARS OR SO AFTER CONSTRUCTED, WE WOULD SEND A LETTER TO THE HOMEOWNER'S ASSOCIATION, SAY, HAVE YOU CHECKED YOUR POND LATELY? AND WHAT CONDITION IT'S IN TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY'RE ACTUALLY DOING THE MAINTENANCE THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE. OR JUST TAKING A LOOK, HAVING SOMEONE PROFESSIONAL TAKE A LOOK AT THE POND TO MAKE SURE IT'S STILL RUNNING PROPERLY. AND THAT IS BUILT INTO THE BUDGET. AND THE STATE CONFIRMED THAT IT USED TO BE HOMEOWNER ASSOCIATION USED TO FAIL ALL THE TIME. NOW IT'S VERY DIFFICULT, RIGHT. IT IS VERY DIFFICULT CRITERIA TO MAKE SURE THAT THOSE HOMEOWNER ASSOCIATES DON'T FAIL. THAT THEY HAVE THE MONEY PROPERLY FUNDED TO, TO MAINTAIN WHAT THEY NEED TO MAINTAIN. ALRIGHT, ANY OTHER QUESTIONS ON OUR END? SO BILL, THEY'RE ASKING DO YOU WANT US TO START PREPARING MATERIALS? NOT THAT YOU WOULD ACT ON, BUT AT LEAST PREPARE MATERIALS. EXACTLY. [02:30:01] BECAUSE WE ARE NOT REQUIRED TO ACT, I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM THAT MATERIALS ARE PREPARED. NO REGULATORY TIMEFRAME START RUNNING UNTIL YOU MAKE YOUR SECRET DECISION. SO THAT'S WHY THEY'RE ASKING YOU TO MAKE YOUR SECRET DECISION AT SOME POINT. WELL, WE'RE ALSO ASKING MEMBER, WE DON'T HOLD THIS SITE. WE'RE JUST, YOU KNOW, UNTIL WE HAVE A SECRET DETERMINATION, WE CAN'T PROCEED WITH OUR WATER QUALITY CERTIFICATION, WHICH WE, WE CAN'T PROCEED WITH OUR WETLAND PERMIT JUST TO SEQUENCE. SO TO CONFIRM WHAT YOU GUYS ARE GONNA DO IS YOU'RE GONNA GO BACK TO THE OWNER, OWNER AND MAKE SOME INQUIRIES ABOUT ADDITIONAL MEASURES TO DEAL WITH THE TREES FROM BOTH THE TREE MITIGATION LAW MM-HMM . WHICH YOU HAD REVIEWED AS WELL AS OUR CONCERNS RELATED TO SEEKER. YEP. UM, YOU'RE GONNA RECONSIDER LOOKING AT LOT ROUTINE. NO, THAT I KNOW WE'RE NOT GONNA BE ABLE TO GIVE UP. BUT AGAIN, KEEP IN MIND, I THINK YEAH, PER THE WET ONE LAW, YOU KNOW, MINIMIZE IMPACTS FOR ONLY IMPACTING ONE 10TH OF IT. BUT I GET YOUR POINT. I DO. BUT I THINK WE NEED THAT LOT. WE CAN ONLY NEED TO ASK, UM, ARE THERE ANY STREETLIGHTS GOING IN ON THIS, ON THE STREETS FOR, FOR PER TOWN STANDARDS AND THERE'LL BE, UH, DR. . YEAH. THE TOWN WILL HAVE, THE TOWN WILL HAVE THEIR STANDARD. YES. AND THE TOWN IS GOING ALL LED D SO IT'LL BE LED LIGHTS. SO WE'LL PREPARE DRAFT PART TWOS AND PART THREES AND SEND THEM TO YOU. DO NOT COMMUNICATE WITH EACH OTHER. REVIEW THEM AND THEN WE'LL GO THROUGH 'EM AT, AT THE MEETING OR JUST SAY, YOU KNOW, BILL SAYS WE'RE GONNA WALK THROUGH EVERY QUESTION, BUT ARE, DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ON THE PART TWO OR PART THREE? THERE MAY BE SOME GAPS IN THE, IN THE PART THREE. THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO DETERMINE. I'M NOT MAKING A DECISION FOR YOU. I'M PUTTING TOGETHER THE MATERIALS FOR YOU, FOR YOU TO MAKE YOUR DECISION. SO I'LL DO THAT DRAFT PART TWOS AND PART THREES AND SEND THEM TO YOU GUYS. AND THEN YOU GUYS ARE GONNA PROVIDE BACK WRITTEN RESPONSES TO THE COMMENTS THAT WERE MADE. YEAH. I NEED A, I'LL NEED A COPY OF THAT MEMO. I, UH, OF IT AND SEND IT TO SARAH SO SHE CAN PROBABLY EMAIL IT TO YOU. YEP. RIGHT. THEN WE'LL ALSO, IT'S NOT HERE, BUT I SENT IT TO YOU. YEAH. AND WE'LL, AND WE'LL RESPOND TO THE INPUT. WE'LL RECEIVE . RIGHT. THANK YOU. AND YOU GUYS KNOW I'M, AND THEY KNOW THAT I'M VERY CONSERVATIVE ON THE PART TWOS. IF THERE'S ANY QUESTION, I CHECK IT AS POTENTIALLY LARGE AND THEN YOU, THE DOCUMENTATION WILL SAY, FOR EXAMPLE, I'LL CHECK IT THAT THERE MAY BE ARCHEOLOGICAL IMPACT, BUT THEN I'M GONNA SAY IN THE PART THREE THAT THEY HAVE A SIGN OFF FROM A SHIP PHONE. SO I'M VERY CONSERVATIVE, I DON'T KNOCK STUFF OUT. I BASICALLY SAY THESE ARE THE THINGS AND THEN IF PART THREE SAY THEY'VE DONE THIS TO ADDRESS THAT ISSUE, WE'LL MAKE A MOTION TO TABLE ESSEX HOMES TO MAY 18TH. SECOND. MOTION BY MR. CLARK. SECOND. LET MR. CHAPMAN ALL IN FAVOR? DID YOU CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING? YES, WE DID. OKAY. I JUST SEAT AND YOU HAVE THE COMMENTS ON, CHRIS CAN PULL THE COMMENTS ON FACEBOOK AND I ASKED SARAH TO SEND YOU THIS I HER PICTURE OF THIS. SO IT, THAT IS THE FIFTH ITEM ON OUR MAY 18TH. THANK YOU EVERYONE. SO WE WON'T PUT ANYTHING ELSE ON THAT MAY 18TH AGENDA. NEXT ITEM ON OUR AGENDA TODAY IS, UH, DOUG JUST, ALRIGHT, I'LL WAIT. UM, DREW, WHILE WE'RE TAKING A PAUSE, THERE IS A NOTEBOOK, UM, THAT SARAH GAVE YOU. THAT IS JAMES', I BELIEVE YOU GOT IT BACK. AS LONG AS I MADE SURE I DID THAT JOB. JUST, JUST FOR THE RECORD, THE COMMENT MADE. BOB, CALIN, MARGO AND MYSELF GOT AN EMAIL, WHICH IS A FORUM PLANNING BOARD. WE GOT IT THIS MORNING AND I'VE ASKED THAT COMMUNICATIONS NOT GO THAT WAY BECAUSE IF CREATES ISSUES MEETING LAW, IT'S FRUSTRATING. I COULD, I COULD, I COULD GIVE, UH, MARK YOUR CONTACT INFORMATION THEN YOU START GETTING, OKAY. AND I HAVE NO IDEA WHO GOT THE TEXT TALKING ABOUT, BUT IT'S LOST THE TEXT. YEAH, THAT ONE I GET. YES. I I TEND NOT TO RESPOND TO GROUP TEXT WHEN I KNOW WHO THEY ALL ARE. YEAH. A LOT, LOT OF THE PEOPLE I DO NOT. SARAH COULD ASK ME. 9 0 7. I'M, I'M BOTH VICE CHAIR AND SECRETARY. I FEEL LIKE IT'S EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SOMETHING. UH, I'M, THERE [02:35:01] ARE ONLY THREE REGULAR MEETING ITEMS SO FAR FOR THE NEXT MEETING. NO, THERE'S FIVE. UH, WELL SHE THAT'S WHAT SHE SAID WHEN YOU'VE ADDED STUFF TO IT. OKAY. YEAH. SO I'VE GOT KIN SINATRA WERE ALREADY ON IT. CORRECT. JABLONSKY, WE ADDED THE ANDERSON BANK AT ESSEX. WE ADDED AND SHE HAS IN HER DRAFT, LEMME FIND HER DRAFT IN HER DRAFT. OH, IN HER DRAFT SHE HAD GOLF CARTS LIMITED WAS NOT ON IT. PUT THAT FARTHER. SO SHE ALSO HAD THE MCKINLEY COFFEE SHOP, WHICH WE PUT TO THE NEXT ONE AND THIS NEXT ONE, WHICH WILL GO ON THE 18TH. ALRIGHT, SO DOUG'S BACK. NEXT ITEM ON THE AGENDA IS DEBRA KRISTY REQUESTING REZONING OF PROPERTY LOCATED AT 6 5 1 9 EL ROAD FROM C TWO TO RA. SO TO COME UP AND, UH, HELLO, ADAM, MS. FRANK WITH WHO RESIDES AT 65 19 HEALTH ROAD AND REQUESTING A CHANGE IN ZONING FROM C TWO TO RA. AND THAT PROPERTY IS CURRENTLY UTILIZED AS A RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY, NOT A COMMERCIAL PROPERTY. SINCE 1988, SHE BOUGHT THE HOME FROM THE PREVIOUS OWNER WHO HELD THE MORTGAGE. SO WE NEVER REALLY REALIZED THAT IT WAS COMMERCIAL PROPERTY. RIGHT. UNTIL RECENTLY. SO SHE BOUGHT THE HOME IN 1988 WHEN IT WAS ALREADY A RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY. YES. DO YOU KNOW WHEN IT BECAME A RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY? WHEN WAS IT BUILT? 70 SOMETHING HOUSE WAS BUILT, I THINK IN THE SEVENTIES. SO TRANSACTION BEFORE THAT IS IN 1956 FROM THE RAILROAD. LIKE THE TAX MAPS ONLY GO 56 RAILROAD, 86 YOUR HOME. OKAY. SO, SO THIS IS HAS COME UP A FEW TIMES IN, IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE DEVELOPMENTS IN THAT AREA. SO I GUESS TO CATCH UP THE NEW PEOPLE, UM, AS FAR, EXCUSE ME, AS FAR BACK AS WE'VE LOOKED, IT'S ALWAYS BEEN ZONED COMMERCIAL. SO WE DO NOT KNOW WHEN IT WAS ZONED COMMERCIAL. AS FAR BACK AS WE'VE LOOKED, IT'S ALWAYS BEEN USED AS RESIDENTIAL. AND YOU LOOKED BACK TO INTO THE, INTO THE SEVENTIES. OKAY. SEVENTIES. OKAY. THAT'S AS FAR RIGHT. JENNIFER, YOU DID THE, YOU LOOKED RIGHT. I BELIEVE MARGO AND I MAY HAVE DISCUSSED THIS TODAY THAT IT WENT BACK TO 1986. YEAH. THIS, THIS HOUSE IN PARTICULAR, IT'S 80 86. THEY'RE, I DIDN'T CHECK THE PARCELS AROUND IT, BUT I IMAGINE SOME OF THEM ARE EARLIER THAN 86. RIGHT. BUT YOU'RE TALKING 35, 40 YEARS OF RESIDENCY. WE HAD, IT MIGHT, IT MAY HAVE BEEN SARAH, WE'VE HAD SOMEBODY GO THROUGH AND JUST LOOK AT THE ZONING MAPS. AND IT USED TO BE, IT USED TO BE EASIER WHEN WE, WHEN THE PLANNING OFFICE WAS ACROSS THE PARKING LOT, THEY HAD ALL THE OLD ZONING MAPS FROM THE DAY ONE THEY WERE IN, THEY WERE PAPER MAPS. RIGHT. THEY WERE IN A DRAWER. WHO KNOWS WHERE THEY ARE NOW AT THE NIKE THERE, THE, YEAH, THEY'RE SOMEWHERE AT THE NIKE MAP. THEY DO IT SOMEWHERE. DOLLAR GENERAL. AND IT WAS INTO THE, WAS IN THE EIGHTIES AT SOME I THOUGHT, BUT EIGHTIES. SO REGARDLESS THAT'S 40, ALMOST 40 YEARS AGO IT WAS. SO, UM, SO THAT'S TO KIND OF, YEAH, BECAUSE I, I TRIED TO RESEARCH IT YEARS AGO JUST TO FIND OUT WHY THEY WERE REZO COMMERCIAL. RIGHT. WHAT WAS THE LOGIC AND REASONING BEHIND IT? WAS IT AN ERROR OR WAS IT WHATEVER, I DON'T KNOW. SO THAT'S PART OF HOW WE GOT HERE. UM, OUR QUESTION CERTAINLY ISN'T SO MUCH HOW WE GOT HERE. IT'S WHAT WE DO ABOUT IT. UH, AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE HERE TO VOTE ON TODAY. SO THE, SO I GUESS THE, LIKE IT'S A, IT'S A EXISTING, LIKE WE, WE TALKED ABOUT EARLIER WITH THE, THE PROPERTY IS, IT'S AN EXISTING RESIDENTIAL USE. IT'S BEEN AN EXISTING RESIDENTIAL USE FOR AN EXTENDED PERIOD OF TIME. CORRECT. AND CURRENTLY GIVEN THE STATE OF THE ZONING, IT POSES A HARDSHIP OR CHALLENGE FOR THEM TO BE ABLE TO TRANSFER THE PROPERTY. CORRECT. SHOULD THEY CHOOSE TO MOVE WHERE WE SELL? CORRECT. I MEAN THOSE TO ME SEEM LIKE SOME OF THE, THE CORE, CORE REASONS TO SUPPORT THEM IN THE RECOMMENDATIONS AND WE HAVE TO, YEAH, WE HAVE TO MAKE A RECOMMENDATION TO BOARD, TOM BOARD MAKES FINAL DECISION. THOSE ARE OUR CORE REASONS. WE ALSO HAVE TO, BECAUSE THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN IDENTIFIED THIS AREA AS A COMMERCIAL DISTRICT, THE THE 1994 PLAN. AND THAT'S THE ONE THAT'S IN, IN EFFECT RIGHT NOW. SO THAT'S THE ONE WE HAVE TO GO BY 2007 PLAN WE OH, THE 2007 ONE. OKAY. SORRY. I THINK 1994 HAD IT TOO, BUT YEAH, IT'S BEEN THAT WAY SINCE IT'S LIKE THE 1994 AS AMENDED IN 2007 RIGHT NOW. RIGHT. YES. THERE WE GO. [02:40:01] UM, SO IF WE WERE GOING TO RECOMMEND A REZONING FROM C TWO TO RA, WE HAVE TO GIVE REASONS WHY WE WOULD MAKE SUCH A RECOMMENDATION THAT'S INCONSISTENT WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. WELL IT IS CONSISTENT WITH, MY ARGUMENT IS THAT IT'S CONSISTENT WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN BASED ON THE GOALS AND OBJECTIVES, INCLUDING EXPRESSLY CALLING OUT AS A GOAL AND OBJECTIVE TO PROTECT THE EXISTING RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOODS FROM ENCROACHMENT BY INCOMPATIBLE USERS. RIGHT. AND SO THE FOCUS THAT I ZERO IN ON IS EXISTING RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD, WHICH APPEARS TO, THIS, APPEARS TO FIT SQUARELY WITHIN THAT. RIGHT. AND I CAN GO ON THE RECORD, I WANNA GO ON THE RECORD AGAIN THAT THE CONFERENCE PLAN IN PRODUCTION RIGHT NOW, OBVIOUSLY IT IS NOT ADOPTED, BUT HAS TARGETED THIS AREA FOR ZONING CHANGES. HASN'T COME UP WITH, NOT SPECIFICS FOR EACH PROPERTY, BUT IT SAYS THE AREA IS MIS ZONED. IT NEEDS TO BE CORRECTED. AND THAT'S, UH, IT'S, IT'S A NICE THING TO CONSIDER BUT IT'S NOT QUITE A AUTHORITATIVE RIGHT. NOT AUTHORITATIVE AT THIS POINT, BUT IT'S CONSIDERED THAT THE DRAFT PLAN, WHICH IS ONLINE, THE, THE DRAFT ACTUALLY THE, IT'S A WORKING DOCUMENT. IT'S NOT EVEN A DRAFT OF THE COMP PLAN CALLS FOR THIS AREA TO HAVE ZONING CHANGES. AND I WOULD, I WOULD LIKE TO ADD, I I AGREE WITH MR. BOB STEIN'S ANALYSIS THAT THAT COMPREHENSIVE PLAN DOES WANT TO PROTECT RESIDENTIAL USES AND, UH, THIS REZONING WOULD ACCOMPLISH THAT. ALSO OVER THE YEARS WE'VE RUN INTO ISSUES WITH THE C TWO ZONING THERE, THAT THERE ARE USAGE USAGES PERMITTED IN A C TWO ZONE THAT DON'T SEEM CONSISTENT WITH THAT NEIGHBORHOOD IN THAT IT'S NOT REALLY SAFE TO CREATE SOMETHING THAT WOULD ATTRACT PEDESTRIANS TO THAT SIDE OF SOUTHWESTERN. SO AGAIN, IF, IF HE WERE TO COME IN FRONT OF, IF SO ONE OF THE OWNERS OF THESE PARCELS WERE TO COME IN FRONT OF US WITH CERTAIN C TWO PROJECTS, WE WOULD HAVE A REALLY HARD TIME WITH THEM BECAUSE OF THE LOCATION. THERE, THERE ARE A COUPLE OF, YOU KNOW, DIRECT CONFLICTS TOO IN THAT A C TWO ZONE EXPLICITLY SAYS NO RESIDENTIAL HOUSING AND THESE PEOPLE HAVE BEEN LIVING IN A C TWO ZONE FOR 40 YEARS. SO THAT'S A CONFLICT THAT IF WE CAN SOLVE IS IN OUR BEST INTEREST BECAUSE THE LAND USE IS NOT MATCHING THE ZONING THE COMP PLAN DOES HOWEVER, WHICH IS LIKE, WE CAN GET AROUND IT, BUT IT DOES SAY THAT THERE SHOULDN'T BE ANY ZONING CHANGES IN THE LEAKY DISTRICT AS JUST KIND OF A BLANKET STATEMENT. UM, BUT IT ALSO SAYS THAT THE LAKEVIEW DISTRICT IS INTENDED TO PRESERVE A RURAL RESIDENTIAL CHARACTER OF LIFE, WHICH THIS SPOT OF COMMERCIAL ALSO IS IN DIRECT CONFLICT WITH. SO I REALLY THINK THAT IT ALL, THE EVIDENCE IS POINTING TO THE MOST APPROPRIATE THING, AS YOU SAID, TO TO REZONE TO MATCH THE ACTIVE USE OF THE PROPERTY. AND, AND I'M GLAD YOU MENTIONED THAT SINCE THAT CONFERENCE ADOPTED, WE DID HAVE THE, THE SOUTHERN OVERLAY, WHICH TALKS ABOUT, AND THE LAKE VIEW OVERLAY, WHICH TALKS, BOTH OF THOSE OVERLAYS TALK ABOUT PRESERVING THE RURAL CHARACTER IN THE RESIDENTIAL AREA. SO THAT'S ANOTHER SUPPORTING DOCUMENTATION FOR THIS CHANGE. SO, SO HOLLY'S WORK FOR PLANNING BOARD MEMBERS THAT HAVEN'T DONE A REZONING YET. SO WE MAKE A RECOMMENDATION. BUT WHAT WE'VE BEEN DOING IN RECENT YEARS IS THAT RECOMMENDATION NOW COMES WITH A MEMO THAT OUTLINES OUR REASONINGS FOR OR AGAINST. AND WE TYPICALLY REFER TO THE MEETING MINUTES. SO THE TOWN BOARD LOVES REVIEWING YOUR MEETING MINUTES AND SAY, OKAY, WHAT WERE THE ISSUES RAISED BY THE PUBLIC AND WHICH WERE THE THINGS THAT WERE DISCUSSED. SO WE'RE GONNA VOTE ON WHETHER OR NOT TO SEND SUCH A MEMO TODAY IF WE DO VOTE TO SEND A MEMO. IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE THAT PEOPLE WANT IN THE MEMO OTHER THAN WHAT WE JUST SAID SUPPORTING OR, UH, OPPOSING THE REZONING? WELL, I THINK ONE THING I DON'T, I KNOW, UH, CAITLIN MENTIONED IT, BUT YOU KNOW THE MORTGAGE TYPE. BUT IF THEY EVER WANNA MAKE HOME IMPROVEMENTS TO KEEP THEIR PROPERTY, YOU KNOW, UP TO SNUFF, THEY'RE GONNA HAVE TO GET A COMMERCIAL I'LL CORRECT. UM, AN EXISTING NONCONFORMING USE, WHICH THESE ARE, CAN DO REPAIRS AND OTHER THINGS TO THEIR HOMES. WHAT THEY WOULD HAVE A PROBLEM WITH IS TYPICALLY THE SALE OF A HOUSE AND , THE, THE, THE MORTGAGE PROVIDERS HAVE A PROBLEM WITH NON-CONFORMING USES. SO WE'VE HAD THIS PROBLEM WITH OTHERS PARTS. SO WE'D LIKE TO CORRECT THAT PROBLEM TOO. THAT THEY WOULD HAVE TROUBLE SELLING THEIR HOMES. THERE WOULD BE SOME BANKS THAT WOULD'VE A PROBLEM PROVIDING LOANS ON A NON-CONFORMING USE. 'CAUSE THEORETICALLY IF THE HOUSE BURNS DOWN, YOU COULD NOT REBUILD THAT HOUSE ON THAT PIECE OF PROPERTY. THAT'S WHAT'S SO INTERESTING BECAUSE THERE'S NOT ONE HOUSE, THERE'S LIKE 10, 12 HOUSES IN [02:45:01] THIS ZONE. SO HOW DID IT JUST COMPLETELY GET OVERLOOKED SOMETIME IN THE EIGHTIES BY ALL THESE MORTGAGE COMPANIES OR THE TOWN OR, RIGHT. I'M SURPRISED THAT THEY DID. IT'S PROBABLY BECAUSE THERE WERE PAPER MAPS AT THE TIME AND IT, IT JUST WASN'T MAYBE, SO IS EVERYONE UNIFORMLY IN SUPPORT OF RECOMMENDING TO REONE? YEAH, I THINK, I THINK MAR MADE A POINT. NEXT PIGGYBACK ON THAT. I THINK I, I PERSONALLY THINK WE'RE, WE'RE CORRECTING A ROCK, WE'RE CORRECTING SOMETHING THAT THERE WAS NOT A LOT OF KNOWLEDGE OF. IT WASN'T THAT THESE RESIDENTS KNEW WHAT, WHAT WAS GONNA HAPPEN IN THE FUTURE. WHERE TODAY BUY A HOUSE YOU SHOULD LOOK AND SEE HOW IT'S ZONED. BUT YEARS AGO IT GOT LOST SOMEPLACE IN SOME DOCUMENTS. AND I THINK WE SHOULD, WE SHOULD BE PART OF THAT CORRECTING. I'M WRONG. YEAH. AFTER THE MORTGAGE CRISIS, THE BACK UP A LITTLE CLOSER THAT WE'RE GONNA DO SOMETHING. I WAS GONNA MAKE A MOTION TO RECOMMEND, UH, TO THE TOWN BOARD THAT THEY APPROVE THE, THE REZONING REQUEST FOR THE REASONS THAT MR. CLARK SO ELOQUENTLY ENDORSE THE BOARD. OUTLINE THE BOARD. OKAY. SO MOTION BY MR. MCCORMICK. SECOND BY MR. CHAPMAN. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. OKAY. MOTION CARRIED. THAT WAS UNANIMOUS. OKAY. AND SO SARAH, WE HAVEN'T HAD A UNANIMOUS REZONING IN QUITE SOME TIME. SO SARAH, SARAH CAME NEXT TEXT SARAH, WE'LL SEND A MEMO TO GET TOWN BOARD RIGHT. SARAH'S GONNA SEND, SARAH'S GONNA TAKE OUR REASONS, PUT IT IN A MEMO THAT GOES IN THE TOWN BOARD. OKAY. SO THEN THAT WILL GO TO THE TOWN BOARD AND THE NEXT STEP AND THE TOWN BOARD AND WE CAN REVIEW IT BEFORE SHE SENDS IT TO WELL THE DEADLINE, THE DEADLINE FOR BEING ON MONDAY'S MEETING IS TOMORROW. OBVIOUSLY THAT'S NOT GONNA HAPPEN. SO PROBABLY BY THE NEXT MEETING, WHICH IS TWO WEEKS FROM MONDAY, I BELIEVE SARAH WILL PUT IN A RESOLUTION TO THE TOWN BOARD FOR THE TOWN BOARD TO CALL A PUBLIC HEARING. SO YOUR PUBLIC HEARING WILL PROBABLY BE IN JUNE AND THEN THEY DON'T USUALLY ACT THE NIGHT OF A PUBLIC HEARING. THEY ACT AT THE NEXT MEETING. SO IT COULD BE END OF JUNE OR JULY WHEN YOU GET YOUR RESULTS. IS THE TIMING ALLOWED FOR NINE TO BE ON THE SAME MONTH? IT COULD BE. IT'S CLOSE. IT'S CLOSE. I THINK IT DEPENDS ON HOW THE MONTH SPLIT. THE NEXT BOARD MEETING AFTER MAY 9TH IS GOING TO BE MAY 23RD. RIGHT. AND OUR NEXT MEETING IS MAY 18TH. WE'RE GONNA BE IN THE SAME SITUATION NEXT. SARAH MAY HAVE TO, WELL SHE MAY BE, I WON'T PUT HER ON THE SPOT. SHE MAY BE ABLE TO ANTICIPATE WHAT THE PLANNING BOARD IS DOING AND HAVE THAT RESOLUTION READY FOR THAT THURSDAY. OUR, THE RESOLUTION THURSDAY AT WHILE WE WERE, WE WILL CONSIDER EACH LOT INDIVIDUALLY. I THINK MOST OF THE REASONING APPLIED TO THE CENTRAL AREA. RIGHT. SO IT'D BE DIFFICULT FOR US TO, SO I'LL WORK WITH SARAH NOT MAKING DECISION THAT WE PROBABLY CAN HAVE A RESOLUTION BOTH RESOLUTIONS IN FOR THAT MAY 28TH. SO I HAVE SOME UH, GOOD NEWS. NEWS. SHE SAYS THAT THE RESOLUTION SHE IS ALREADY DRAFTING IN THE PUBLIC HEARING FOR THIS IS LIKELY TO BE ON MAY 23RD. OH, SHE ALREADY HAD THE RESOLUTION. SO SARAH HAD ALREADY STARTED DRAFTING AND PREPARING. SO SHE'S, SHE'S TAKING NOTES ON WHAT WE'RE DOING. SO BE HAPPY TO WELL JABLONSKY WON'T BE ABLE TO BE ON CORRECT. CORRECT. TIMING FOR THAT WON'T WORK OUT UNFORTUNATELY, BUT SARAH THAT'S ALRIGHT. WE KIND OF ALMOST APPROVED IT TO THE WORK WE RIGHT. AND I WASN'T AT THAT ONE. WE CORRECTED. YEAH. AND YOU CALLED ME AND I WAS LIKE, OH MAN, I THOUGHT THERE . YEAH, I DID LET YOU KNOW. YEAH YOU DID. AND THANK YOU FOR THAT. IT'S OKAY. ALRIGHT, FINAL ITEM ON OUR AGENDA IS BENDERSON DEVELOPMENT REQUESTING THANK YOU. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. IS BENDERSON DEVELOPMENT REQUESTING SITE PLAN APPROVAL OF A PROPOSED 9,150 SQUARE FOOT COMMERCIAL BUILDING WITH A 2,250 SQUARE FOOT COFFEE SHOP WITH THE DRIVE THROUGH TO BE LOCATED AT 6,000 SOUTH PARK AVENUE. LOST STOLE IT. SEAN HOPKINS. I TOLD YOU CHRIS WOODS KEEPS TAKING NO DIESEL. SO, UM, THIS IS OUR THIRD TIME HERE AND LAST TIME WE WERE ON SEE AN ISSUE, WE HELD IT SO I COULD MEET WITH THE YES. DOING THE BIKE PATH AND THE LANDSCAPING. NO ONE'S, NO ONE'S CALLING ME. OKAY. I'LL REPORT AND I I HEARD THAT, I TALKED TO THE SUPERVISOR LAST WEEK. OH GOOD. THANK YOU. THE SUPERVISOR HAS OFFERED TO MEET WITH YOU AND ANYBODY ELSE FROM THE GATEWAY COMMITTEE TO MEET WITH YOU. HE IS OFFERED THAT. HE SAYS PLEASE, HE UNDERSTANDS THAT THE CONSULTANT IS NOT QUITE, I'LL CALL THE SUPERVISOR TO SET UP BY WAS MEETING THERE SOMETHING ELSE. BUT CAN WE SET THIS FOR A PUBLIC HEARING SO WE CAN MOVE IT FORWARD AT THIS POINT? THERE WERE NO MAIN ISSUES. OH YEAH. YEAH. WE CAN. I DON'T KNOW WHY WE DIDN'T THIS TIME. I HAVE NO PROBLEM MEETING. I THOUGHT IT WAS, I HAVE NO PROBLEM MEETING WITH THEM AND WORKING THOSE TWO ITEMS OUT. RIGHT. [02:50:01] BECAUSE NO ONE'S TOUCH WITH AND I'M ON THAT GATEWAY COMMITTEE SO I'LL I'LL GO TO THAT TOO IF I OKAY. IF JENNIFER SAYS IT'S OKAY, I'LL EMAIL THE SUPERVISOR TOMORROW. ALRIGHT. THANK YOU. YOU'RE WELCOME. AND HE'S EXPECTING YOUR CALL. I LEFT TOWN MIDDLE OF LAST WEEK AND I FORGOT TO, SO I WAS GONNA SEE YOU TONIGHT. JUST CALL AND, AND I KNOW THAT YOU DIDN'T GET IN TOUCH WITH HIM AND I, I DID PUT SOME CALLS IN. OKAY. BUT THEN I GOT SICK AND IT'S NO PROBLEM. I JUST WANTED, BECAUSE I'VE AGREED TO WORK WITH IT, I JUST GET IN TOUCH WITH IT. OH, I WOULD, IF I WOULD'VE KNOWN THIS WASN'T FOR A PUBLIC HEARING WOULD'VE DIFFERENT. NOT WELL ARE YOU OKAY WITH DOING A PUBLIC HEARING ON JUNE 1ST? I'M HERE. ALRIGHT. JUNE, JUNE 1ST. YEAH. BUT YOU'RE HERE ON, YOU'RE HERE ON THE 18TH. 18 THE 18TH HOWARD. I THINK THE 18TH IS FULL. RIGHT? THE 18TH IS FULL. THAT'S WHY JUNE ONE OF THOSE ITEMS IS MRS. DE REZONING BE SUFFICIENT. WOULD YOU BE COMFORTABLE? I ONE OF THOSE ITEMS WAS MR. KKI OR MRS. KIKI'S REZONING AND WE'RE ALREADY AT NINE 10 TODAY, SO, OKAY. I'M NOT ANTICIPATING CAN, CAN, CAN WE BE EFFICIENT? I I'M NOT, I'M NOT EXACTLY SURE. SO I'M NOT GONNA SAY WE CAN, I'M NOT ANTICIPATING ON COUPON. THIS, THIS IS A, I I'M NOT EITHER SO AND I JUST, I MEAN THE ONE COMMENT I WOULD HAVE, 'CAUSE WE'VE GOT INTO SO MUCH OF THE STACKING, I I'M NOT WORRIED ABOUT THE STACKING ON THIS ONE BECAUSE IF, IF YOU HAD 30 PEOPLE STACKED THE WAY THAT PARKING LOT IS RIGHT NOW, IT WOULD CREATE A DANGEROUS SITUATION. SO THAT'S WHY I'M NOT CONCERNED ABOUT THE STACKING IN THIS LOCATION THE SAME WAY I AM AS THE OTHER ONE. IT THAT WAY BACK IT SET BACK. I BE IN THE PARKING LOT. I SEE THE IT'S SET BACK. YEAH. DREW, IS THIS THE ONE YOU HAD A COMMENT ABOUT THE OTHER TENANTS? SORRY? IS THIS THE ONE THAT YOUR MEMO HAD COMMENT ABOUT THE OTHER TENANTS IN THE BUILDING? YES, AND I, AND IT'S ONE OF THE THINGS WE TYPICALLY DO, THE REST OF THE BUILDING IS A SPEC BUILDING. WHEN WE APPROVE IT, WE'RE GONNA SAY IT'S, IF THERE'S NOT LIKE WE'RE, YOU CAN PUT ANYTHING ELSE IN THERE BEYOND THAT, IF FOR SOME REASON THEY GOT A TENANT THAT WANTED TO PUT A A RESTAURANT IN THERE, YOU'D HAVE TO COME BACK TO YOU BECAUSE WE HAVE TO REDO THE PARKING COUNT. SO THE APPROVAL WE BASED UPON IS THAT OKAY. I MEAN, YOU KNOW THAT IF YOU HAVE TO DO SOME SORT OF STANDALONE RESTAURANT, YOU'D PROBABLY HAVE TO COME BACK TO US. WELL TECHNICALLY WHEN YOU INFILL RESTAURANT A BUILDING, AS LONG AS YOU MEET THE PARKING, YOU DON'T HAVE A PARKING OPEN. RIGHT. IT'S AN INTERESTING, IT'S AN INTEREST. CONCEPTBOARD MOVES TO PARKING EVERY PROJECT. AND THE LAST THING THAT WAS THERE WAS A RESTAURANT AND I'M FINE KIND, WE RETAIL YOU'RE TRYING TO RAISE IS THAT, AND BY THE WAY, IT'S A CALL BY THE CODE ENFORCEMENT OFFICER. THEY LOOK AT IT AND SAY, HEY, YEAH THIS FITS INTO THE CATEGORY. THEY DECIDE WHETHER THE USE HAS CHANGED ENOUGH TO SEND IT BACK TO YOU. BUT AGAIN, IN TODAY'S WORLD, IT COULD BE SOMETHING VERY CREATIVE. I MEAN YOU PROBABLY GET STANDARD RETAIL IN THERE, BUT IF IT'S SOMETHING BEYOND STANDARD RETAIL, IT MAY HAVE TO COME BACK HERE. RIGHT. BUT I MEAN EVEN IF IT DID THERE, THERE'S EXCESSIVE PARKING ON THAT LOCATION. EXCESSIVE WOULD BE THE JUST . SO I HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT THE EXCESSIVE PARKING. SO I BELIEVE WHEN I'M LOOKING AT YOUR SITE PLAN, THERE IS A RED DASHED LINE THAT CUTS. SO THAT IS A SEPARATE PARCEL. CORRECT. GABE IS A SEPARATE PARCEL. SO IS THERE A CROSS ACCESS AGREEMENT OR WILL YOU HAVE SOME SORT OF EASEMENT RIGHT IN PLACE DOCUMENTED TO ALLOW, BECAUSE THE ENTRANCE TO THE DRIVE THROUGH IS FROM GABE'S IN THE UNLIKELY EVENT THAT ONE OF THOSE PARCELS WAS SOLD. SO IF OH, SO THAT IF SAY, UH, GAMES WAS SOLD TO IKEA AND THEY PUT A BRAND NEW IKEA IN OVER THERE, THAT WOULD BE AWESOME. I I GIRL DREAM. IF YOU CAN MAKE THAT HAPPEN, I WILL DO, DO GLAD DO THAT. WE OWN BOTH OF THESE. YEAH. I'LL, I'LL MAKE SURE WE GET, WE ALWAYS DO AN RA ESPECIALLY BEFORE WE SELL ANYTHING. ESPECIALLY WE'RE, YEAH. SO AS LONG AS IF THERE'S APPROPRIATE DOCUMENTED CROSS ACCESS AGREEMENT SO THAT WHEN YOU BRING ME IN IKEA YEAH. AND HE FINDS SECOND FLOOR. I DON'T KNOW. BUT UM, THAT'S, THAT'S, NO, THAT'S NO PROBLEM. TYPICALLY WE HAVE AN REA, UM, ESPECIALLY BEFORE WE SELL ANYTHING. OKAY. IF BENON IN A STRANGE LIKELIHOOD WOULD SELL THE ADJOINING PARCEL, WHICH DOESN'T HAPPEN VERY OFTEN, ALSO THEN YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE IKEA. GREAT. WE WILL BE EXPECTING THAT . RIGHT. A NICE RESTAURANT THAT DREW WANTS THERE. RIGHT. IF, IF I WOULD'VE, I WOULDN'T HAVE SAID THAT EVER IF, IF YOU GUYS HAD SOLD THE PLAZAS UP NORTH BY MCKINLEY LAW AND THEN REPURCHASED THEM YEARS LATER. BUT I WON'T SAY ANYBODY CROSS COUNT. SO WHAT'S, THAT'S ONLY THING I WON'T TALK ABOUT. . YOU KNOW WHAT, I KNOW WE CAN'T REGULATE HOURS OF OPERATION, BUT, UM, IF THE STARBUCKS COULD STAY OPEN UNTIL AFTER THE PLANNING BOARD MEETING I'VE NEVER HAD THAT REQUEST. YOU'VE NEVER HAD REQUIREMENT? WELL, I MEAN IT'S, [02:55:03] YEAH. I'M BY THE WAY QUESTION THE STARBUCKS WILL REMAIN OPEN IN THE TOPS. RIGHT. BUT UH, AND I'M SORRY TO BRING UP TO THE OTHER ONE, BUT THE STARBUCKS UP BY THE, I DON'T KNOW IF THEY'RE CLOSING THAT ONE. YOU DON'T KNOW. THAT'S NOT AND I ACTUALLY HAVE HEARD, BECAUSE YOU KNOW THERE'S ANOTHER STARBUCKS IN THAT PLAZA. YEAH, WE DO. YEAH. OUT A DRIVE THROUGH. I'VE ACTUALLY HEARD THEY'RE NOT CLOSING THAT. OKAY. THAT'S NOT OURS. SO I DON'T KNOW FOR SURE, BUT I ACTUALLY HEARD THEY WERE NOT CLOSING THAT. I HEARD, I HEARD THAT THEY WEREN'T, THEY WERE NOT GONNA CLOSE THAT. BUT THEY WANTED THE DRIVE THROUGH HERE IN ADDITION TO KEEPING THAT ONE OPEN. DO WE HAVE, DO WE HAVE A DETAILED LANDSCAPING? WE DO PLAN FOR THIS SHEET. YEAH. WE HAVE A FULL CIVIL SET WITH A LANDSCAPING PLAN. I'LL CONFIRM THAT FROM SARAH. I JUST, AGAIN, AM GONNA CONFIRM THE TREE SPECIES REGARDING I HAVE THE, THE FULL SET OF PLANS, BUT THERE HAS BEEN REVISIONS. I'LL MAKE SURE WE REIT THE REVISED PLANS. THERE WILL BE RISE. SO IF IF YOU LOOK AT THE, THE LANDSCAPE THAT WE HAVE THERE, IT MIGHT NOT HAVE THESE LAST, THE LAST SET OF LITTLE ADJUSTMENTS AND, AND MOST PROBABLY, I KNOW THAT DOESN'T REALLY IMPACT LANDSCAPING BECAUSE IT'S ON THE BACKSIDE, BUT YEAH. AND MOST PROBABLY I JUST DON'T WANT THEM TO SEE SOMETHING AND THEN SEE IT DISAPPEAR. THE COMMENTS YOU'RE GONNA GET FROM THE GATEWAY COMMITTEE ARE GONNA BE ON LANDSCAPING SIGNAGE AND THINGS LIKE THAT TO MAKE IT AN ENTRANCE WAY. SO WE'LL HOPEFULLY YOU'LL GET YOUR GOOD INPUT AND THEN FINALIZE THOSE LANDSCAPE PLANS. THE INTERESTING PART'S GONNA BE THE BIKE PATH. WHAT'S THAT? THE BIKE PATH. THAT'S BE BIKE PATH TOO. IT'S GONNA BE AN INTERESTING WALKABILITY. ALL THOSE THINGS ARE FAR, NOTHING IS GONNA BE OUTRAGEOUS. AND YOU'RE GONNA PUT AN EV CHARGE IN, STATION IN OH, THAT'D BE NICE. WE SHOULD CAN YOU DO? WE DON'T DO THAT. WE, UM, HAVE, AS THEY HAVE THE DEMAND, THEY REACH OUT TO US AND WE DO A, ALLOW 'EM TO DO IT. SO TESLA AND SOME OF THE OTHER GROUPS DO THEIR OWN STUDIES, THEY DETERMINE WHERE THEY NEED THEM AND THEN THEY COME OUT, WE LET THEM. SO EVENTUALLY I'LL BE BACK TO YOU. 'CAUSE THEY WANNA PUT THEM OVER AT MCKINLEY PLAZA. THE ONE WE REACHED OUT TO STARBUCKS, THEY WANNA PUT EIGHT THERE. UM, BUT WE'RE CURRENTLY NEGOTIATING THAT DEAL, SO THERE'LL BE EIGHT THERE WHEN THEY GET AROUND, WHEN THEY DO THEIR STUDIES AND THEN WHEN THEY WANT THEM. WE DON'T TELL THEM WHERE TO PUT THEM. SO THAT'S HOW THAT WORKS. BUT YOU'RE SEEING, WE'RE SEEING THEM IN ALL OUR, EVENTUALLY THEY'RE COMING AROUND IN ALL OUR PLAZAS AS THEY DO THEIR DUE DILIGENCE AND DO, AND WE'RE, IT'S A RECOMMENDATION OF COMP PLAN. WE'RE WE LOOKING AT PUTTING THAT IN THE ZONING LAWS THAT E STATIONS ARE ALLOWED. JUST SOME GENERAL CRITERIA ABOUT I SEE. IN THE FUTURE YOU'RE GONNA SEE, JUST DUNNO EXACTLY WHERE YOU'RE GONNA SEE EVERYWHERE. PRETTY GOOD. WE DON'T, WE DON'T DICTATE, USUALLY TELL YOU AFTERWARDS DON'T WORK. SO, SO WHAT DAY CAN I, I PUT ONE DOING THIS JUNE 1ST, CORRECT? WE'RE GONNA DO JUNE 1ST. ANYTHING ELSE THAT WE WANT BEFORE JUNE 1ST? JUST THE, IF YOU SOME DETAILED PLANS. I'LL, WE'LL TAKE A LOOK AT SOME OF THE LANDSCAPING PLAN. AND CAM YOU JUST FIND UPDATED. DO YOU HAVE THE, DO YOU HAVE THE UPDATED? NO, I'LL MAKE SURE THIS IS . I, I CHECKED BEFORE I DRAFTED MY LETTER. YES. AND IT SPECIFICALLY NOTES THAT THE CURRENT SET WERE UNDER REVIEW, BUT THERE HAVE BEEN REVISIONS BASED ON THE LAST TIME YOU WERE HERE AND YOU WENT OVER. JUST BE CAREFUL REVIEWING THE UPDATED PLANS UNTIL THEY GET THEIR INPUT FROM GATEWAY. I WANT YOU TO DO IT THEN FIND OUT THAT THEY WANNA ADD A BIKE LANE OR SOMETHING. HERE'S WHAT I'LL DO. I WON'T SUBMIT ANY MORE PLANS. HAVE MEETING THEN I'LL THE PLANS. THANK YOU. IT'S MY RECOMMENDATION. YOU CAN ALWAYS SUBMIT A SITE PLAN OR A KY PLAN. YOU SUBMIT JUST A LANDSCAPE PLAN UNDER SARAH. YEAH, I DO WITH THAT BECAUSE THAT'S A LOT MORE THAN SORT OF THE PLANNING BOARD, THE DRAINAGE AND THINGS LIKE THAT. THEY KNOW I'M GONNA LOOK AT SO CIVIL PLANS AS WE CALL, HEY, CAN I EMAIL THAT TOMORROW? YEAH, THAT'S FINE. YEAH, IF YOU EMAIL THAT'S EASIER. IF YOU EMAIL, I'LL HAVE, I'LL HAVE MY EMAIL LANDSCAPE. GOOD. ALRIGHT, SO THEN MOTION THE TABLE, THE SOUTH PARK STARBUCKS TO JUNE 1ST. SECOND. MOTION BY MR. CLARK. SECOND BY MR. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. MOTION. WELL, NO, IT'S, YOU ALREADY HAVE SO EVEN, EVEN IF YOU WERE SLOWER, IT WOULD STILL GO, BOB. OH YES. EVERYONE'S HERE. SO EXCITING. WE CAN APPROVE THE MINUTES FROM MARCH 16TH. . WE HAVE THE FOUR PEOPLE THAT WERE HERE THAT DAY. THIS IS, HOLD ON. THAT'S MARCH 16TH. MARCH 16TH. OH MY GOSH. LET ME, THAT WAS APPROVE THE MORE RECENT ONE QUICKLY WHILE I REFRESH MY MEMORY ON MARCH 16TH. ONE SLIGHT EDIT. ALRIGHT, SO I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE APRIL 20TH MEETINGS AS TIGHT. [03:00:01] I THINK THAT, UM, YOU NEED TO REVISE MY NAME. YEAH. BECAUSE I AM INCORRECTLY REFERRED TO AS MR INSTEAD OF MS. SO WE NEED TO FIX THAT. OTHER THAN THAT, DO WHAT YOU WANT. OKAY. WANNA MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE MINUTES? UH, WITH THE POTENTIAL WITH THE REQUESTED AMENDMENT. YEAH. ABS, I SECOND? YEAH, YOU. OH, I CAN'T, NO, I WAS HERE. I THINK IT'S, I THINK IT'S THE LAST MEETING NEED TO BE CHANGED ON MARCH 16TH. SO, YEAH, SO, SO MARCH 16TH IS THE NEXT ONE YOU NEED TO DO, RIGHT? AND I'M, SO, OKAY, SO YEAH, THERE HAVE BEEN CHANGED. SO I'M CHANGED FROM THE APRIL 20TH MINUTES BECAUSE I WAS NOT HERE AS AM I. OKAY. SO I, I MADE THE MOTION. SECOND BY MR. BOB SIGN. OBSCENE. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. AYE. ABSTAINED. DOUG B. ALL RIGHT. TODAY, THINK MARCH 16TH WAS, UH, THE DAY THAT YOU WERE SICK AND HE CALLED YOU AND MADE YOU SHOW ON SCREEN. OH, YEP. OKAY. YEAH. SO I WOULD MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE MINUTES OF THE MARCH 16TH MINUTES. 16TH, 16TH, UH, 16TH MEETING. IS THERE SOMEONE WHO WAS AT THAT MEETING WHO WOULD LIKE TO SECOND THAT THAT WOULD BE SO YOU WEREN'T AT THAT MEETING. OH YEAH. YOU WEREN'T? OH, UM, I WAS THERE. OH WAIT, SO I'M GONNA, ACTUALLY, CAN I AMEND? I WAS THERE, SAYS EXCUSE. AND, UM, YEAH, SO WE NEED TO REMOVE MARGO FROM THE EXCUSE BECAUSE SHE, WE HAVE THAT SHE ATTENDED VIA ZOOM. YEAH, WE NEED TO REMOVE HER FROM EXCUSE. SO ONE ADDED TO THE MARCH 16TH, BUT IT, YES. SO I AMEND MY INITIAL MOTION. I, WHEN I, WITH THAT CHANGE, UM, APPROVE MINUTES MOTION. SO I DUNNO IF SO BOB, YOU WERE THERE BY MR. MCC. SECOND BY MR. MAHONEY. I ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. ABSTENTIONS. SORRY, I HAD TO RUIN ALL THE MINUTES GUYS, THE MINUTES I WASN'T HEARING. MARCH 16TH ONES HAVE BEEN LISTED AS BOTH ATTENDING BY ZOOM AND EXCUSED. AND THE APRIL 20TH ONES HAVE A INCORRECT, WHAT IS THAT CALLED? WHAT IS A CALLED UR WHAT? ADJOURN THE MEETING. CAN I ADJOURN THE MEETING PLEASE? SECOND MOTION BY MR. SHAW, SECOND BY THIS MCCORMICK. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. SO. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.